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By jimjam
#14999913
Hindsite wrote:The liberal Democrats will continue to obstruct

There is nothing to "obstruct". The Republicans and Donald have no health care plan. They came up with a half assed con job about a year ago called Ensuring Coverage for Patients with Pre-Existing Conditions Bill ( :lol: ) that had a loophole in it big enough to drive a truck thru and it was laughed out of the park. Not only that but Donald said that they would do NOTHING for the next 20 months and, even then, NOTHING unless the highly unlikely event of them capturing all 3 branches of the federal government transpires because the only way their Great Deal Maker seems able to make a deal is to work with a marked deck and ram things down people's throats. Meanwhile …………………. cancer never sleeps. This situation illustrates well the complete lack of human compassion on the part of the Greedy Old Party and their High Priest of Greed, Donald.

Let's give it up Hindsite. We're way off topic. There is a thread for this particular lie. Trump's personal attorney, Barr, is releasing his cover up today. That should keep us busy for awhile.
#14999948
jimjam wrote:Alan Dulles was fired by JFK but he essentially still ran the CIA when he engineered JFK's ………. er …….. administration change.

That's kind of a strange retort from the biggest supporter of the deep state on this forum. So let me get this straight: you think Allen Dulles had Kennedy killed and you purport to be bothered by this belief; you think the KGB personnel to a man joined the FSB and there are no differences 28 years later; you think Donald Trump is a Russian asset because he borrowed money from Deutsche Bank, and you think that Clinton, Comey, Brennan, Clapper, Strzok, Page, McCabe, Steele and Mueller among many others didn't manufacture Russiagate from whole cloth to undermine another US president that the neoconservative/neo-liberal cabal didn't get to choose due to the failure of both Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton?

jimjam wrote:Get with the real world sonny and spare me the cheap shots.

The real world is that Hillary Clinton commissioned the phony Russia dossier, paid a foreign "former" spy ("former" as in Allen Dulles assassinating JFK after he was fired from the CIA) to write it up, who in turn likely paid Russians for testimony, and it is to this day entirely uncorroborated; and CIA operative Nellie Ohr was in part responsible for the "opposition research" while she was married to Bruce Ohr, who was part of the FBI counterintelligence and furnished the same report to the FBI; the FBI had paid informants in the Trump campaign, but not in any other campaigns; the DoJ provided an immigration parole to Natalia Veselnitskaya after her visa application was denied; Veselnitskaya met with Fusion GPS where Nellie Ohr worked on "opposition research"; a Hillary Clinton donor who knew Donald Trump Jr proposed a meeting between Trump and Veselnitskaya suggesting to Trump Jr she had dirt on Hillary Clinton when in fact she did not; Veselnitskaya visited Fusion GPS after meeting with Trump Jr; Steele was the anonymous source for a YahooNews article used to corroborate his own report so that the FBI could use it in a FISA application to spy on Trump campaign volunteer Carter Page, which was renewed three times for a total of four warrants--signed off by Comey and Rod Rosenstein among others; before assuming office, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer warns Trump that the intel officials "have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you"; upon assuming office Trump appoints General Flynn as national security director, and the FBI decides to conduct a criminal interview of him without telling him to ask him questions they already knew the answers to because they tapped his phone lines and after that they then went to Trump to tell Trump that Flynn could be exploited, because he "lied" to the FBI; Comey presents Trump with the phony dossier, which Comey knows is phony and from Hillary Clinton's campaign; Comey refuses to disavow the report publicly while telling Trump personally he's not a subject of any investigation; Rosenstein recommends firing Comey for his handling of the Hillary Clinton investigation, and Trump thinks Comey was playing games with him so he fires Comey; then, Chuck Schumer--who previously warned Trump that intel officials have 6 ways from Sunday to get back at you calls for a special counsel, insinuates that Attorney General Jeff Sessions was compromised and should recuse himself, leaving Rod Rosenstein to appoint a special counsel who spends 2 years and $25M to investigate whether Trump colluded with Russia and concludes he did not collude with Russia; and we're supposed to ignore that, because the Southern District of New York, who employs non other than James Comey's daughter, is supposed to come up with something really juicy that will finally nail Trump. Am I getting all this right? And I'm supposed to believe Trump is "in bed with the Russians"? Can you see where my skepticism begins?

You are now reduced to peddling this:

jimjam wrote:“The Republicans are developing a really great HealthCare Plan with far lower premiums (cost) & deductibles than ObamaCare,” the president wrote in a string of three tweets posted Monday night. “In other words it will be far less expensive & much more usable than ObamaCare. Vote will be taken right after the Election when Republicans hold the Senate & win back the House.” D.Trump ( :lol: )

...in a thread about Trump and Russiagate.

Why not just start a thread entitled, "I don't like Donald Trump. Here's why..."

jimjam wrote:Let's give it up Hindsite. We're way off topic. There is a thread for this particular lie. Trump's personal attorney, Barr, is releasing his cover up today. That should keep us busy for awhile.

Apparently. Now we're supposed to believe some sort of "obstruction of justice" theory when the report concludes there was no collusion between Trump and Russia. For someone who believes Allen Dulles had JFK killed, you suddenly seem to have a lot of faith in the political pronouncements of people who say things like "Let me tell you: You take on the intelligence community — they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you".

The Trump-Russia collusion theory is clearly blown up. As I said, the report would take some swipes at Trump, but when we get right down to the whole Trump Russia collusion theory, it really boils down to this:

Image
It's bullshit.
User avatar
By jimjam
#14999957
blackjack21 wrote:That's kind of a strange retort from the biggest supporter of the deep state on this forum. So let me get this straight: you think Allen Dulles had Kennedy killed and you purport to be bothered by this belief; you think the KGB personnel to a man joined the FSB and there are no differences 28 years later; you think Donald Trump is a Russian asset because he borrowed money from Deutsche Bank, and you think that Clinton, Comey, Brennan, Clapper, Strzok, Page, McCabe, Steele and Mueller among many others didn't manufacture Russiagate from whole cloth to undermine another US president that the neoconservative/neo-liberal cabal didn't get to choose due to the failure of both Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton?


The real world is that Hillary Clinton commissioned the phony Russia dossier, paid a foreign "former" spy ("former" as in Allen Dulles assassinating JFK after he was fired from the CIA) to write it up, who in turn likely paid Russians for testimony, and it is to this day entirely uncorroborated; and CIA operative Nellie Ohr was in part responsible for the "opposition research" while she was married to Bruce Ohr, who was part of the FBI counterintelligence and furnished the same report to the FBI; the FBI had paid informants in the Trump campaign, but not in any other campaigns; the DoJ provided an immigration parole to Natalia Veselnitskaya after her visa application was denied; Veselnitskaya met with Fusion GPS where Nellie Ohr worked on "opposition research"; a Hillary Clinton donor who knew Donald Trump Jr proposed a meeting between Trump and Veselnitskaya suggesting to Trump Jr she had dirt on Hillary Clinton when in fact she did not; Veselnitskaya visited Fusion GPS after meeting with Trump Jr; Steele was the anonymous source for a YahooNews article used to corroborate his own report so that the FBI could use it in a FISA application to spy on Trump campaign volunteer Carter Page, which was renewed three times for a total of four warrants--signed off by Comey and Rod Rosenstein among others; before assuming office, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer warns Trump that the intel officials "have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you"; upon assuming office Trump appoints General Flynn as national security director, and the FBI decides to conduct a criminal interview of him without telling him to ask him questions they already knew the answers to because they tapped his phone lines and after that they then went to Trump to tell Trump that Flynn could be exploited, because he "lied" to the FBI; Comey presents Trump with the phony dossier, which Comey knows is phony and from Hillary Clinton's campaign; Comey refuses to disavow the report publicly while telling Trump personally he's not a subject of any investigation; Rosenstein recommends firing Comey for his handling of the Hillary Clinton investigation, and Trump thinks Comey was playing games with him so he fires Comey; then, Chuck Schumer--who previously warned Trump that intel officials have 6 ways from Sunday to get back at you calls for a special counsel, insinuates that Attorney General Jeff Sessions was compromised and should recuse himself, leaving Rod Rosenstein to appoint a special counsel who spends 2 years and $25M to investigate whether Trump colluded with Russia and concludes he did not collude with Russia; and we're supposed to ignore that, because the Southern District of New York, who employs non other than James Comey's daughter, is supposed to come up with something really juicy that will finally nail Trump. Am I getting all this right? And I'm supposed to believe Trump is "in bed with the Russians"? Can you see where my skepticism begins?

You are now reduced to peddling this:


...in a thread about Trump and Russiagate.

Why not just start a thread entitled, "I don't like Donald Trump. Here's why..."


Apparently. Now we're supposed to believe some sort of "obstruction of justice" theory when the report concludes there was no collusion between Trump and Russia. For someone who believes Allen Dulles had JFK killed, you suddenly seem to have a lot of faith in the political pronouncements of people who say things like "Let me tell you: You take on the intelligence community — they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you".

The Trump-Russia collusion theory is clearly blown up. As I said, the report would take some swipes at Trump, but when we get right down to the whole Trump Russia collusion theory, it really boils down to this:

Image
It's bullshit.

Trump? I guess we'll see how it plays out. So far about all he's done is grease the skids for corporate America and pass out tax breaks for the boys down at The Club. I don't see where he has done dick for the common working man.

Here's a good read for you: The Devil's Chessboard by David Talbot.

Take it easy my friend …… I must now jog a few miles in 85 degree temps under a bright sun. :eek:

ps … i'll do this: Why not just start a thread entitled, "I don't like Donald Trump. Here's why..." If you start a thread entitled, "I don't like Hillary Clinton. Here's why …." Deal? :lol: (FYI I don't like Hillary about as much as you don't like Hillary but, keeping in mind that you seem to have some difficulty in grasping the nuances of history, you may not have noticed that Donald is the sitting president, not Hillary.)
#14999964
Image

The Trump Tower meeting was the focus of the investigation but Mueller concluded that there was no collusion. The special counsel’s investigation into possible collusion found that members of the Trump campaign (i.e. Donald Trump Jr.) knew they would benefit from Russia’s illegal actions to influence the election, but didn’t take criminal steps to help. I have been reading the bestselling "Fire and Fury" downloaded from Wikileaks but the Mueller report is as readable as Michael Wolff's book. Trump wasn't entirely cleared on obstruction of justice but his aides refused to carry out his orders to hamper the investigation.

Read the full redacted report below, or download a copy here.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/18/poli ... index.html
User avatar
By Hong Wu
#15000006
ThirdTerm wrote:Trump wasn't entirely cleared on obstruction of justice but his aides refused to carry out his orders to hamper the investigation.

Read the full redacted report below, or download a copy here.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/18/poli ... index.html

According to the Mueller report or according to the "Fire and Fury" book? You're not being very clear here.

If you've read the report, maybe you could point out for us where it says this.
#15000007
Image

The relevant part is on page 158 in the part two of the published report. It says the President's efforts to influence the investigation was unsuccessful because the persons who surrounded the President declined to carry out orders. On page 157, it says the evidence does not establish that the President was involved in an underlying crime related to Russian election interference. The last part of the report detailed on obstruction-of-justice statues which could be applicable to the President. The conclusion of the report is on page 182.

Image
User avatar
By Hong Wu
#15000010
Oh well. TBH I couldn't be assed to read it after two years of this and no charges, maybe that's my bad.

It's almost as if there is just enough in there to keep the Dems chomping on that nothing burger but I dunno, maybe I'm overthinking it.
#15000013
Mr Mueller's explanation is that he cannot charge a president holding office. His report may be sufficient to ensure President Trump"s impeachment. Charges might follow.
By Hindsite
#15000025
Stormsmith wrote:Mr Mueller's explanation is that he cannot charge a president holding office. His report may be sufficient to ensure President Trump"s impeachment. Charges might follow.

What we have learned for sure from the Mueller report is that Trump/Russian collusion hoax is dead.
Praise the Lord.
User avatar
By Hong Wu
#15000028
Stormsmith wrote:Mr Mueller's explanation is that he cannot charge a president holding office. His report may be sufficient to ensure President Trump"s impeachment. Charges might follow.

Where did the report say this?
#15000039
Hong Wu wrote:Where did the report say this? Oh well. TBH I couldn't be assed to read it after two years of this and no charges, maybe that's my bad.


Be arsed. Look it up yourself.
User avatar
By jimjam
#15000074
Donald J. Trump and 18 of his associates had at least 140 contacts with Russian nationals and WikiLeaks, or their intermediaries, during the 2016 campaign and presidential transition. Among the contacts are in-person meetings, phone calls, text messages, emails and private messages on social media platforms.

Mr. Trump Jr. (the dumb Trump) arranged the now-famous meeting at Trump Tower with Russians after being promised “dirt” on Hillary Clinton. He also exchanged private messages with WikiLeaks, which disseminated stolen Clinton campaign emails, and was aware of negotiations during the 2016 presidential campaign to develop a Trump Tower in Moscow.

Nothing fishy here. In all probability they just liked each other and were discussing baseball scores, the weather and "adaptions". :lol:
#15000084
It is really true that we live in the best of all worlds.

The Mueller investigation has virtually paralyzed the US presidency and prevented US imperialism from doing its worst. At the same time, the conclusion of the investigation is not such as to allow impeachment. Thus, the shit-show will continue for the foreseeable future.

US imperialism will never be the same again. :D
By Sivad
#15000112
Robert Mueller Did Not Merely Reject the Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theories. He Obliterated Them.
Glenn Greenwald
April 18 2019, 2:01 p.m

The two-pronged conspiracy theory that has dominated U.S. political discourse for almost three years – that (1) Trump, his family and his campaign conspired or coordinated with Russia to interfere in the 2016 election, and (2) Trump is beholden to Russian President Vladimir Putin — was not merely rejected today by the final report of Special Counsel Robert Mueller. It was obliterated: in an undeniable and definitive manner.

The key fact is this: Mueller – contrary to weeks of false media claims – did not merely issue a narrow, cramped, legalistic finding that there was insufficient evidence to indict Trump associates for conspiring with Russia and then proving their guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. That would have been devastating enough to those who spent the last two years or more misleading people to believe that conspiracy convictions of Trump’s closest aides and family members were inevitable. But his mandate was much broader than that: to state what did or did not happen.

That’s precisely what he did: Mueller, in addition to concluding that evidence was insufficient to charge any American with crimes relating to Russian election interference, also stated emphatically in numerous instances that there was no evidence – not merely that there was insufficient evidence to obtain a criminal conviction – that key prongs of this three-year-old conspiracy theory actually happened. As Mueller himself put it: “in some instances, the report points out the absence of evidence or conflicts in the evidence about a particular fact or event.”

To get a further sense for how definitive the Report’s rejection is of the key elements of the alleged conspiracy theory, consider Mueller’s discussion of efforts by George Papadopoulos, Joseph Misfud and and “two Russian nationals” whereby they tried “to arrange a meeting between the Campaign and Russian officials” to talk about how the two sides could work together to disseminate information about Hillary Clinton. As Mueller puts it: “No meeting took place.”

Several of the media’s most breathless and hyped “bombshells” were dismissed completely by Mueller. Regarding various Trump officials’ 2016 meetings with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, Mueller said they were “brief, public and nonsubstantive.” Concerning the much-hyped change to GOP platform regarding Ukraine, Mueller wrote that the “evidence does not establish that one campaign official’s efforts to dilute a portion of the Republican platform was undertaken at the behest of candidate Trump or Russia,” and further noted that such a change was consistent with Trump’s publicly stated foreign policy view (one shared by Obama) to avoid provoking gratuitous conflict with the Kremlin over arming Ukrainians. Mueller also characterized a widely hyped “meeting” between then-Senator Jeff Sessions and Kislyak as one that did not “include any more than a passing mention of the presidential campaign.”

Regarding one of the most-cited pieces of evidence by Trump/Russia conspiracists – that Russia tried once Trump was nominated to shape his foreign policy posture toward Russia – Mueller concluded that there is simply no evidence to support it.

In other crucial areas, Mueller did not go so far as to say that his investigation “did not identify evidence” but nonetheless concluded that his 22-month investigation “did not establish” that the key claims of the conspiracy theory were true. Regarding alleged involvement by Trump officials or family members in the Russian hacks, for instance, Mueller explained: “the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.”

As for the overarching maximalist conspiracy – that Trump and/or members of his family and campaign were controlled by or working for the Russian government – Mueller concluded that this belief simply lacked the evidence necessary to prosecute anyone for it.

And Mueller’s examination of all the so-called “links” between Trump campaign officials and Russia that the U.S. media has spent almost three years depicting as “bombshell” evidence of criminality met the same fate: the evidence could not, and did not, establish that any such links constituted “coordination” or “conspiracy” between Trump and Russia.

Perhaps most amazingly, even low-level, ancillary, hangers-on to the Trump campaign that even many Russiagate skeptics thought might end up being charged as Russian agents were not.

But so vacant is the Mueller investigation when it comes to supporting any of the prevailing conspiracy theories that it did not find even a single American whom it could indict or charge with illegally working for Russia, secretly acting as a Russian agent, or conspiring with the Russians over the election – not even Carter Page. That means that even long-time Russiagate skeptics such as myself over-estimated the level of criminality and conspiracy evidence that Robert Mueller would find.

In sum, Democrats and their supporters had the exact prosecutor they all agreed was the embodiment of competence and integrity in Robert Mueller. He assembled a team of prosecutors and investigators that countless media accounts heralded as the most aggressive and adept in the nation. They had subpoena power, the vast surveillance apparatus of the U.S. government at their disposal, a demonstrated willingness to imprison anyone who lied to them, and unlimited time and resources to dig up everything they could.

The result of all of that was that not a single American – whether with the Trump campaign or otherwise – was charged or indicted on the core question of whether there was any conspiracy or coordination with Russia over the election. No Americans were charged or even accused of being controlled by or working at the behest of the Russian government. None of the key White House aides at the center of the controversy who testified for hours and hours – including Donald Trump, Jr. or Jared Kushner – were charged with any crimes of any kind, not even perjury, obstruction of justice or lying to Congress.

These facts are fatal to the conspiracy theorists who have drowned U.S. discourse for almost three years with a dangerous and distracting fixation on a fictitious espionage thriller involved unhinged claims of sexual and financial blackmail, nefarious infiltration of the U.S. Government by familiar foreign villains, and election cheating that empowered an illegitimate President. They got the exact prosecutor and investigation that they wanted, yet he could not establish that any of this happened and, in many cases, established that it did not.

The anti-climactic ending of the Mueller investigation is particularly stunning given how broad Mueller’s investigative scope ended up being, extending far beyond the 2016 election into years worth of Trump’s alleged financial dealings with Russia (and, obviously, Manafort’s with Ukraine and Russia). There can simply be no credible claim that Mueller was, in any meaningful way, impeded by scope, resources or topic limitation from finding anything for which he searched.

Despite efforts today by long-time conspiracist theorists to drastically move goalposts so as to claim vindication, the historical record could not be clearer that Mueller’s central mandate was to determine whether crimes were committed by Trump officials in connection with alleged Russian interference in the election. The first paragraph of the New York Times article from May, 2017, announcing Mueller’s appointment, leaves no doubt about that.

As recently as one month ago, former CIA Director and current NBC News analyst John Brennan was confidently predicting that Mueller could not possibly close his investigation without first indicting a slew of Americans for criminally conspiring with Russia over the election, and specifically predicted that Trump’s family members would be included among those so charged.

Indeed, so many of the most touted media “bombshells” claiming to establish Trump/Russia crimes have been proven false by this report. Despite an extensive discussion of Paul Manafort’s activities, nothing in the Report even hints, let alone states, that he ever visited Julian Assange in the Ecuadorian Embassy, let alone visited him three times, including during the 2016 election. How the Guardian could justify still not retracting that false story is mystifying.

Faring even worse is the Buzzfeed bombshell from January claiming that “President Donald Trump directed his longtime attorney Michael Cohen to lie to Congress about negotiations to build a Trump Tower in Moscow” and that “Cohen also told the special counsel that after the election, the president personally instructed him to lie — by claiming that negotiations ended months earlier than they actually did — in order to obscure Trump’s involvement.” Mueller himself responded to the story by insisting it was false, and his Report directly contradicts it, as it makes clear that Cohen told Mueller the exact opposite.

Equally debunked is CNN’s major blockbuster by Jim Sciutto, Carl Bernstein, and Marshall Cohen from last July that “Michael Cohen, President Donald Trump’s former personal attorney, claims that then-candidate Trump knew in advance about the June 2016 meeting in Trump Tower.” The Mueller Report says the exact opposite: that Cohen had no knowledge of Trump’s advanced knowledge.
https://theintercept.com/2019/04/18/rob ... ated-them/
By Hindsite
#15000138
Hong Wu wrote:Where did the report say this?

It didn't. He heard the fake news say that and he repeats it like a good parrot.
User avatar
By Hong Wu
#15000144
Stormsmith wrote:Be arsed. Look it up yourself.

Mashing up my posts and changing the order to make it look like I said something I didn't is probably against some forum rule and contributes to the impression that you're lying.



According to Medium, the NSA has records of Seth Rich communicating with Julian Assange, which would be a game changer.
User avatar
By jimjam
#15000171
The report of the special counsel Robert Mueller makes the following categorical conclusion: “The Russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election in sweeping and systematic fashion.”

I understand our Commander in Chief spent a large portion of his day yesterday screaming. Does anybody know if he was angry about America being subjected to a hostile attack by a foreign country?
User avatar
By jimjam
#15000172
Hindsite wrote: He (sic)

I think he is a she.
Last edited by jimjam on 20 Apr 2019 18:09, edited 1 time in total.
#15000182
Hong Wu wrote:According to Medium, the NSA has records of Seth Rich communicating with Julian Assange, which would be a game changer.

Indeed. I wonder if whoever leaked that information is still alive.

jimjam wrote:Mr. Trump Jr. (the dumb Trump) arranged the now-famous meeting at Trump Tower with Russians after being promised “dirt” on Hillary Clinton.

He didn't arrange the meeting. It was a friend of the Clintons that proposed the whole thing.

jimjam wrote:He also exchanged private messages with WikiLeaks, which disseminated stolen Clinton campaign emails, and was aware of negotiations during the 2016 presidential campaign to develop a Trump Tower in Moscow.

So did just about every major news outlet around the world. Most major news outlets around the world also published the Clinton emails after they were released. Hillary Clinton wasn't damaged by any of that. She was damaged by what she said in the emails. Building a building in Moscow is not illegal.

jimjam wrote:Nothing fishy here.

It's blown apart now. Clearly Teresa May's government sided with Hillary Clinton and tried to undermine Trump's government. Teresa May is going down. Hillary is already toast. The conservatives are going down for selling out Britain. Nigel Farage's new party is already out polling the tories. The establishment's days are numbered, and rightly so.

jimjam wrote:Does anybody know if he was angry about America being subjected to a hostile attack by a foreign country?

He put sanctions on Russia for their alleged but still unproven actions. He should also put sanctions on the United Kingdom and Australia for their interference in the election too. Christopher Steele's efforts clearly got a hell of a lot more traction than anything the Russians did.
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