Combating Fascism The Peaceful Constructive Way - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15005209
So, I am not a communist by any stretch of the imagination. Yet, I think there might be a few things we can learn from the commies. For example, what is fascism and how to fight it. That being said, the commies are not known for being all peace loving hippies who believe in non-violence. The literature on communism I have read is that most communists believe in violent global revolution. So, is there a way for some of us non-violent types to combat fascism in a constructive non-violent way? Do our communist friends on the forum have suggestions on how to combat fascism through constructive non-violent means? I figured you guys might have a few ideas on how to identify fascism and how to fight it constructively without war, violence or violent revolution.
#15005210
I think you need to speak to some of the communists on this forum. It's not the violent ideology that you think it is, and I think that almost none of them call for violence.
#15005211
@Godstud,
Godstud wrote:I think you need to speak to some of the communists on this forum. It's not the violent ideology that you think it is, and I think that almost none of them call for violence.


I don't know, a lot of the literature I have seen on Marxism or Communism, whatever you want to call it, seems to advocate global revolution and the use of force to overthrow the capitalist owning classes. In addition, communists seem to believe in the abolition of private property because it is their belief that private property eventually leads to slavery. Politically, I am not a communist. I think their is a place for capitalism, free enterprise and free trade. I also think when confronted with problems it's best to take the smart constructive approach that does not involve the use of violence. At the end of the day, violence or violent revolution just creates more problems and misery than it solves. Some communists reason that a man would slay a rabbit so that he may eat and survive, thus it would be a "justifiable sacrifice" but I think taking the analogy of slaughtering an animal for food to the slaughter of war or violent revolution is NOT a fair or applicable analogy.
#15005232
Hong Wu wrote:I don't people call others a part of a German political party that formed in the 1930's and has been gone for almost 100 years because they're trying to be constructive.


What are you trying to say? I am not following you. Please clarify what you are trying to say to where it's easier to understand. Thanks!
#15005234
Hong Wu wrote:Sorry edited my post.


If I call a fascist a fascist because they really are fascist, then sure I am trying to be constructive. You can't be constructive unless you get down with reality and the truth brother. If you people live in a fantasy world, then problems are never going to be confronted and solved because nobody is willing to call out the problem and confront reality with solutions.
#15005246
Politics_Observer wrote:Yet, I think there might be a few things we can learn from the commies. For example, what is fascism and how to fight it.

Communists were not peaceful in opposing fascists at all. On the contrary, the NSDAP created the SA as a defensive group, because the communists constantly infiltrated NSDAP rallies and started violence, not unlike Hillary's ANTIFA thugs infiltrating Trump rallies.

Politics_Observer wrote:Do our communist friends on the forum have suggestions on how to combat fascism through constructive non-violent means?

Seriously? All you have to do is look at Charlottesville, VA to see that violent confrontation is exactly what the left wants.

Politics_Observer wrote:In addition, communists seem to believe in the abolition of private property because it is their belief that private property eventually leads to slavery.

Add "by violence" to "abolition of private property" and you have communism in a nutshell, and that's why it never gets more sophisticated than a ring of thieves.
#15005255
blackjack21 wrote:Seriously? All you have to do is look at Charlottesville, VA to see that violent confrontation is exactly what the left wants.
You mean where the right-winger nazi killed someone with his car. :roll:

So melodramatic, as usual, Blackjack21.
#15005259
Godstud wrote: You mean where the right-winger nazi killed someone with his car. :roll:

So melodramatic, as usual, Blackjack21.

The mayor of Charlottesville and the governor of Virginia got the Antifa types motivated to confront the "Unite the Right" folks. The first attempt resulted in 23 Antifa types getting arrested and none of the "Unite the Right" people getting arrested. On the next outing, the mayor of Charlottesville ordered the police to stand down so that Antifa could attack the Unite the Right people without police intervention. The outcome was predictable. It was just a failure on a propaganda level, because people saw through the attempt to smear only the Unite the Right people and not the Antifa types initiating violence as suborned by the government. That a mentally ill guy ran over a fat chick walking in the middle of the street isn't something that is going to get people to draw broad conclusions.
#15005266
blackjack21 wrote:The mayor of Charlottesville and the governor of Virginia got the Antifa types motivated to confront the "Unite the Right" folks. The first attempt resulted in 23 Antifa types getting arrested and none of the "Unite the Right" people getting arrested. On the next outing, the mayor of Charlottesville ordered the police to stand down so that Antifa could attack the Unite the Right people without police intervention. The outcome was predictable. It was just a failure on a propaganda level, because people saw through the attempt to smear only the Unite the Right people and not the Antifa types initiating violence as suborned by the government. That a mentally ill guy ran over a fat chick walking in the middle of the street isn't something that is going to get people to draw broad conclusions.


That rally looked like trouble to begin with so the smart thing to do is not attend those kinds of crazy rallies in the first place. But from what I saw on the news, it was a bunch of Nazis that were being violent and used a car to commit a murder by running down demonstrators. Those were Nazis in Charlottesville and they were definitely the "bad guys."

I agree that Communists have generally opposed fascism with violence. Violence, particularly violent world revolution from what I have read is part of their political ideology. They argue that the capitalist class is well armed and willing to use violence and also cite how unarmed strikers in the past were gunned down by hired goons. Like the Pinkertons for example, as factory workers protested very repressive and dangerous working conditions plus crazy hours like working for no less than 6 days a week for 12 hours.

But the Pinkertons murdered those striking factory workers in cold blood back in the day and those guys were the factory owner's hired goons. And their is no doubt that it was the workers and not the factory owners that build that factory and made it successful but at a high cost to them (them being the factory workers).
#15005275
Politics_Observer wrote:That rally looked like trouble to begin with so the smart thing to do is not attend those kinds of crazy rallies in the first place.

Naturally. If I were to attend, it would be on the roof of a building, where my activity would be limited to observing dumbshit people with dumbshit problems.

Politics_Observer wrote:But from what I saw on the news, it was a bunch of Nazis that were being violent and used a car to commit a murder by running down demonstrators.

It was Antifa that initiated the violence. The car incident was a separate matter. James Fields was a mentally ill schizophrenic and drove his car into a crowd of people, apparently killing Heather Heyer in the process. You could certainly argue that Fields was a Nazi, but mentally ill people generally aren't fully within their faculties yet are allowed to roam free these days until they harm somebody.

Politics_Observer wrote:Those were Nazis in Charlottesville and they were definitely the "bad guys."

Some of the Unite the Right people were neo-Nazi types. Some of the neo-Nazis are serious assholes. Many of them are just under- or un-employed people that are more or less the victims of trade policies that favor outsourcing and the cheapest possible labor over domestic tranquility. Antifa is to the Democratic Party what the SA was to the Nazi party or what the IRA was to Sinn Fein. They are pretty much assholes to a person. Trump was right to call them out too. There were plenty of people on the right who were not neo-Nazis at all. Trump was right to point that out too.

Politics_Observer wrote:They argue that the capitalist class is well armed and willing to use violence and also cite how unarmed strikers in the past were gunned down by hired goons.

That's true. It's particularly true of industrial capitalists and unskilled laborers. Skilled laborers were able to unionize, and generally command higher wages.

Politics_Observer wrote:But the Pinkertons murdered those striking factory workers in cold blood back in the day and those guys were the factory owner's hired goons. And their is no doubt that it was the workers and not the factory owners that build that factory and made it successful but at a high cost to them (them being the factory workers).

That's largely true, but factories would not be built without aggregating capital. That's where finance comes in, fractional ownership, and why the political will was there to crush unskilled labor. Many of the commies on here are right to point out that the US has two capitalist parties--Nancy Pelosi says so unapologetically. That they are both right wing is something of a misnomer. They are both authoritarian, but left wing parties are notoriously authoritarian. The reason you see even marginal numbers of neo-Nazis is because the capitalist class is using race to divide the poor, blaming white people for the problems of non-white people. Yet, poor white people are not privileged at all, and they are rightly angered by that characterization in academia, media and political forums. Today, American unskilled labor is crushed with unemployment and welfare dependency, offshoring, and importing illegal immigrants to work under the table for cash. That's why there is so much human trafficking defended by the Democratic party. That's why I don't care who wins the Democratic nomination, so long as it isn't Joe Biden.
#15005284
It was Antifa that initiated the violence. The car incident was a separate matter. James Fields was a mentally ill schizophrenic and drove his car into a crowd of people, apparently killing Heather Heyer in the process. You could certainly argue that Fields was a Nazi, but mentally ill people generally aren't fully within their faculties yet are allowed to roam free these days until they harm somebody.


I don't know who initiated the violence. I don't know if James Fields was mentally ill or not. I do know that they let mentally ill people roam around free on the streets thanks to Reagan back in the 80s throwing mentally ill people out on the streets from mental institutions at the time. Mentally ill people are even allowed to have guns legally, which is dangerous. I am certainly in favor of some serious gun control in the United States. It's very foolish to let somebody diagnosed with a mental health issue to have access to firearms and firearms need to be heavily regulated. But you know the NRA here in the US and too many people fanatically clinging to their guns thinking that it will bring safety and security.

Many of them are just under- or un-employed people that are more or less the victims of trade policies that favor outsourcing and the cheapest possible labor over domestic tranquility.


And therein lies the problem. Free trade is very important. But what is equally important is assuring that free trade deals take into account working people, their right to organize into unions and collectively bargain and to have a voice in the work place. Unions also help with work place safety and make sure that people SHARE in the prosperity of these trade deals instead of just rich factory owners getting richer while workers suffer from wage stagnation or in some cases a DECLINE in wages for the same job over a period of years plus ever more dangerous and unhealthy work places.

Unions have been crushed in the United States and many parts of the world and there is no real substitute for working people having a union so that eventually their kids can move up the ladder. And when working people start getting heavily exploited and treated like replaceable spare parts and having to work 3 or 4 jobs to barely make ends meet, all the sudden crazy narcissistic people like Trump who says he has a solution and that "only he can solve the problems" suddenly are able to move in and easily manipulate these people who feel angry and hopeless and just downtrodden.
#15005298
Lets remember that the real origins of the Nazis lie in the struggles of the Frei Korps in the East against Bolshevik tyranny at the end of World War I. It is to a considerable degree the struggles of the proto Nazis that allowed the Finland and the Baltic states to remain free and bought the time for the Poles to organise and mobilise so as they could drive back the Bolshevik terrorists. The Nazis grew in the struggle for freedom from Communism, in the existential battles both in the East and inside Germany.

We also owe a great debt to the heroic struggles of the Nazi war machine against the Soviets form 1943 to 1945 after Roosevelt issued his wicked unconditional surrender demand. If the Nazis had just laid down their arms at the beginning of 1943, then communism would have probably triumphed and extinguished freedom from the world. During those years the Germans exhausted the Soviet terror machine, containing its power and ability to expand. It was this exhaustion, the terrible losses in manpower that caused the Soviets to halt their terror machine on the Elbe. When that Commie loving tosser Roosevelt issued his unconditional surrender demand, the Wehrmacht was the only thing that stood between Stalin and him rolling through to the Atlantic.

Frankly I've heard enough of the bad things the Nazis did, its time to remember some of the good things and the debt that we owe them.
#15005309
I don't know Godstud. The Communist on this forum are pretty revolutionary to me. Decky calls for gulags, PoD calls for an uprising, Ingliz says revolution is needed and even mild mannered Potemkin wants to liberate gun laws so the proletariat can rise up against their masters.

Although people need to understand that Communism is the end to a means rather than the means to an end. When Marx wrote his manifesto things were different than they are today. There wasn't really an opportunity to democratically elect The Communist Party so what other choice did they have but to commission an extreme pamphlet? Today we have new Marxists from the Frankfurt School who understand new means and new ways to achieve Communism. Less Communists today are radical thinkers because we have moved on from the 19th century.
#15005319
Communists do not shy from necessary violence.

Even those of us who insist on using the most peaceful and democratic processes to bring about communism also understand that the ruling capitalists will not give up their wealth and power without a struggle, and the ruling capitalists are more than willing to use violence, including pre-emptively.

As for getting rid of fascism in a peaceful manner, the first thing you need to do is educate people about what fascism looks like, so that we can identify it.
#15005327
Education at a young age is the only way to combat fascism in a peaceful manner. Once an ideology is fixed in a mind, it is very difficult to break. And if those of fascist thinking are forceful and agressive in their manner there is no peaceful or constructive way to change that other than cooperative rehabilitation when (if) they see the error in their ways.
#15005371
It's hard to psychologically combat fascism, and Catholicism, because those ideologies tend to shame anyone who rebels against their false beliefs. Some people like that also make conditions for the people below them a certain way, so that they can use fascism or Catholicism to cope with that.
#15005372
Politics_Observer wrote:Unions have been crushed in the United States and many parts of the world and there is no real substitute for working people having a union so that eventually their kids can move up the ladder. And when working people start getting heavily exploited and treated like replaceable spare parts and having to work 3 or 4 jobs to barely make ends meet, all the sudden crazy narcissistic people like Trump who says he has a solution and that "only he can solve the problems" suddenly are able to move in and easily manipulate these people who feel angry and hopeless and just downtrodden.


But that doesn't matter because the way things were in the States before Reagan were NOT socialist. Having high paying wages, labour unions, and better welfare has nothing to do with socialism.

You could use those things to get to socialism, even though by definition, that's not what socialism is. But the States never used those pre Reagan economics to get to socialism.

The United States is a religious, family oriented, materialistic, and celebrity obsessed state that used high wages, unions, and welfare to get to that. What you said has nothing to do with socialism. This shows that you don't understand what socialism is, thus making your opinionated statements as useless.
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