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By Rich
#15006273
Beren wrote:If BoJo becomes leader the Brexit Party returns to where it came from while UKIP is already destroyed.

If BoJo becomes leader what is he going to do? BoJo could well command less support in the House of Commons than Teresa May. What's he going to do, try and leave without a deal? Renegotiate? Try and push through May's deal? Why do you think May is still in number 10? Because no one wanted to become leader till after she had completed at least the first stage of Brexit?

I think May really is going to go soon, unlike all the previous times stupid commentators told us she was doomed. But her would be successors are only prepared to move now because of desperation. And actually its not even now but after the EU election results. I could be wrong but I just don't see how a new Tory leader can just sit out the next three years on the current parliamentary arithmetic, till an election becomes necessary. What will this new leader be able to deliver in parliament that Mrs May couldn't. May was at least respected by the parliamentary Tory party when she took over. Boris is widely hated and despised by his parliamentary colleagues before he's even got the top job.

Some top Tory MPs must be thinking let Boris have a go, cause a disaster and then he can be replaced quicker than May. It seem to me the new Tory leader must go for an early autumn General Election. If they get a good majority they can push through a hard Brexit. If they remain in number 10 in a similar or further weakened position, they then have cover to not deliver Brexit. If they lose number 10, these unusual circumstances may allow them to stay as leader.

If BoJo is leader and there's an autumn election, the Brexit party may well not stand against him or ERG members, but they will have a good case for standing against soft Tory candidates. I think a lot could depend on what Farage wants. Does he want to be deputy Prime Minister? I mean I doubt he really wants to be PM any more than Trump wanted to be President. ;)
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By JohnRawls
#15006358
I don't know if Brexit is designed to be a real world version of the Groundhog day or the movie was made in anticipation of Brexit. :knife:
By B0ycey
#15006390
Rich wrote:If BoJo becomes leader what is he going to do? BoJo could well command less support in the House of Commons than Teresa May. What's he going to do, try and leave without a deal? Renegotiate? Try and push through May's deal? Why do you think May is still in number 10? Because no one wanted to become leader till after she had completed at least the first stage of Brexit?


:lol:

Perhaps the only thing he can do. Call a snap election. Although the arithmetic isn't with the Tories. So perhaps he might just sit it out and let the EU server ties in October instead. Although Parliament would never just allow the UK to leave but the EU patience will diminish without action.

Nonetheless Brexit is a poison chalice. If he believes in it he must just leave and then deal with the economic and social consequences of it. But does BoJo have the balls to be known as the clown who broke Britain? Or will he be like May and waste his time trying to get rid of a backstop that the EU will never get rid of?
User avatar
By Potemkin
#15006416
B0ycey wrote:But does BoJo have the balls to be known as the clown who broke Britain?

It is clearly his historic destiny, B0ycey, the great task he was born to accomplish. We lesser mortals can only gaze on in mute astonishment.... :eek:
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By Nonsense
#15006430
SolarCross wrote:At this point I don't think there is anything to be gained from that timid old mantra about spliting the vote because anyway coalitions can solve that. Bojo and Farage could presumably have a coalition of some sort, like Cameron did with Clegg. I don't know which way remainers could link up given labour remains ambigious on brexit though.



Nonsense-

Also, leavers within Labour may well change horses at the next general election,simply because of the way their party has denied them their democratic voice in the referendum result by from dishonouring the promise to take us out of europe.
Those people could well support the BREXIT Party.

The political tremors at Westminster, could well be the catalyst for at least a realignment in our politics, where we lead, others follow, meaning that the same could be true throughout europe.
The people of europe, as well as Britain, know what the views of their elected politicians are on europe, what the politicians ignore(d), are the views of the people on it, for that combination of ignorance or arrogance, the reckoning is coming down the line, like the four horses of the apocalypse & it will be a 'shock & awe' reaction by them when it hits them in elections to come.
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By SolarCross
#15006438
Nonsense wrote:Nonsense-

Also, leavers within Labour may well change horses at the next general election,simply because of the way their party has denied them their democratic voice in the referendum result by from dishonouring the promise to take us out of europe.
Those people could well support the BREXIT Party.

The political tremors at Westminster, could well be the catalyst for at least a realignment in our politics, where we lead, others follow, meaning that the same could be true throughout europe.
The people of europe, as well as Britain, know what the views of their elected politicians are on europe, what the politicians ignore(d), are the views of the people on it, for that combination of ignorance or arrogance, the reckoning is coming down the line, like the four horses of the apocalypse & it will be a 'shock & awe' reaction by them when it hits them in elections to come.

Sure, although it might be the remainers that dump labour if labour comes out for brexit. Labour will have to face the same fracturing the conservatives have eventually; Corbyn can't stay ambiguous forever. He can't ride two different horses heading in opposite directions.
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By Nonsense
#15006450
SolarCross wrote:Sure, although it might be the remainers that dump labour if labour comes out for brexit. Labour will have to face the same fracturing the conservatives have eventually; Corbyn can't stay ambiguous forever. He can't ride two different horses heading in opposite directions.



That is so, the Lib Dems or other insignificant parties do not suffer from that conundrum, that's why they do not split & are not on the political fence on the issue.
If they polarise as leave or remain, then lose votes, it matters not to them, if they gain votes, it validates their position from the policy point of view.

However, in gaining, they can\do misread the reasons why they have profited, which can be that voters are not voting for them, but rather, voting against the other parties, in other words, they are using them as a Trash Bin in which to deposit their votes in disgust at the main parties.

As a result, the Lib Dems are likely to compound that error of misreading, by becoming more strident in their views on the issue, but suffer more at the next general election.
I think there is enormous potential for the creation of a radical new political party with the right policies, but that gap in the political market is not being seized upon & so many people could well abstain from voting as a result.
Last edited by Nonsense on 21 May 2019 22:27, edited 1 time in total.
By snapdragon
#15006661
Unfortunately, voting for Labour tomorrow will not help end austerity or do anything of the kind.

It will just give Farage's Brexit Party a boost, which is why I'm voting Liberal-Democrat.

Some of my friends are voting for the Green Party.

Either one is good.
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By guyojcorb
#15006674
snapdragon wrote:Unfortunately, voting for Labour tomorrow will not help end austerity or do anything of the kind.

It will just give Farage's Brexit Party a boost, which is why I'm voting Liberal-Democrat.

Some of my friends are voting for the Green Party.

Either one is good.

Both the Lib-dems and the green have made massive gains recently while the conservatives have tanked incredible losses.
Why do you think that is?
By snapdragon
#15006688
Because they're firmly offering a confirmatory referendum.
I think it's important remainers send the message that's what we want.
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By Beren
#15006712
skinster wrote:

Corbyn won't have to defeat Robinson in a general election unfortunately, and it's Farage rather than Corbyn that beats him anyway.
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By Nonsense
#15006764
Andrea LEADSOM, Cabinet Minister, Leader of the House, has resigned from MAY's government.

Credit, where credit is due, I think that she has acted both loyally & honourably in the government over BREXIT.

I also think she is leadership material or a suitable replacement for the Chancellor when MAY goes before the summer recess.

They say a 'week is a long time in politics', of late that must seem so true.

Theresa MAY has been playing the 'fiddle' while Rome burns, without any doubt whatsoever in my mind, she really is the worst(well-at least post WW2)Prime Minister since '45 & some have been pretty terrible.

At some point the future of how & what type of government can restore integrity into this shattered democracy that was once a beacon to much of the world will have to be reset by election.

Before that process can happen, that election must have voters severely punishing MP's that have betrayed the referendum result, along with the host parties.

Voters must really learn to distinguish & decode political manifestos at election time.

They should first of all read, as well as absorb what they read, by reading between the lines, separating what is stated to what they feel is not said, what the party in government's record is over the long haul, differences that can be nuanced or untruthful, voters must educate themselves before even contemplating voting for any particular party & never ever be a slavish supporter of any party.
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By ingliz
#15006766
The latest YouGov poll has found that 61% of those who would vote in a second referendum would vote to Remain in the European Union.

The survey for KIS Finance found that between the choice of Theresa May's Brexit deal or remaining in the EU, 61% of those who confirmed they would vote stated they wanted the UK to stay in the European Union.

When a no-deal scenario is added into the mix, 53% of people would vote to Remain, while 34% would vote for no-deal, and just 12% would vote for Theresa May's deal.


:|
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By Nonsense
#15006776
ingliz wrote:The latest YouGov poll has found that 61% of those who would vote in a second referendum would vote to Remain in the European Union.

The survey for KIS Finance found that between the choice of Theresa May's Brexit deal or remaining in the EU, 61% of those who confirmed they would vote stated they wanted the UK to stay in the European Union.

When a no-deal scenario is added into the mix, 53% of people would vote to Remain, while 34% would vote for no-deal, and just 12% would vote for Theresa May's deal.:|


Nonsense-

First of all ingliz, polls, like any other method of prediction are not a scientific excercise, more often than not, they get it wrong, a bit like an immortal chimpanzee being given a piano to play with, for billions of years only 'noise' eminates, until one point in time,a dazzling bravura performance is performed.

The only polls mattering are the real ones & we had one in 2016.
'Remainers' think that things have changed since then, so the argument goes, people should have the opportunity to express their opinions again.

Whilst they are entitled to change their opinions, they cannot change the original ballot result which must be implemented no matter what the cost.

The issue is greater than BREXIT, 'Remainers' are undemocratic & it's dishonest of them to claim another 'democratic' referendum when denying the 2016 referendum result that doesn't match their views.
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By ingliz
#15006872
Nonsense wrote:must be implemented no matter what the cost.

:lol:
By snapdragon
#15006902
From what I can gather from reading online comments from various sources, an awful lot of remainers intend to vote Labour, which worries me a bit.

I don't look on this election as being anything to do with domestic policy, which, let's face it, it isn't.

The issue is greater than BREXIT, 'Remainers' are undemocratic & it's dishonest of them to claim another 'democratic' referendum when denying the 2016 referendum result that doesn't match their views.


There 's nothing undemocratic in giving people a chance to change their minds.


Especially as not one person voted to leave the EU for the shit shambles we're getting.

It was all supposed to be sunny uplands and easy deals.
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By JohnRawls
#15006909
snapdragon wrote:From what I can gather from reading online comments from various sources, an awful lot of remainers intend to vote Labour, which worries me a bit.

I don't look on this election as being anything to do with domestic policy, which, let's face it, it isn't.



There 's nothing undemocratic in giving people a chance to change their minds.


Especially as not one person voted to leave the EU for the shit shambles we're getting.

It was all supposed to be sunny uplands and easy deals.


UK politics at this point are in shambles. Tories are Brexiters although they don't really believe in the idea as a whole besides the 1/3 of pure Brexiters in their party. Teresa May is a tough leader who has no real support. Labour is 70-80% pro-remain while the party leader is pro-Brexit for ages and has no balls to change his opinion/does it for political gain. The voters are voting across party lines Tory/Labour because they think the rest of the parties are irrelevant. Lib dems and hardcore Brexit parties are sidelined while i think realistically being the only way forward at this point.
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By Potemkin
#15006937
snapdragon wrote:From what I can gather from reading online comments from various sources, an awful lot of remainers intend to vote Labour, which worries me a bit.

I don't look on this election as being anything to do with domestic policy, which, let's face it, it isn't.

A confluence of fortuitous circumstances seems to be conspiring to make Corbyn PM. Jeremy Corbyn - the Bran Stark of British politics. Lol. :lol:
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