Let's try this again: I'm a hyper-capitalist, AMA, or come debate me - Page 5 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15012291
ingliz wrote:So you would agree with me that God has nothing to do with it? Your god-given 'right' is a privilege granted to you by me, or not, as I please, at my pleasure.


:)


Dude, how are you not getting this?
Nature (God), gave you life. With every life, comes a right. That right, is the right to fight. This is something you can't take from me. You can take my life, but you can't take my will to fight for my life. What you do, or do not do, is irrelevant. Do you now understand?
#15012303
The Goldpill wrote:(God), gave you life. With every life, comes a right...

Bollocks!

Playing with words does not change reality. Your argument is nonsensical; "nonsense on stilts".


:lol:
Last edited by ingliz on 16 Jun 2019 14:53, edited 2 times in total.
#15012320
The Goldpill wrote:With every life, comes a right.

No rights existed anterior to the establishment of government. The government is the source of law, and rights are created by the law made by the government. Therefore, the idea that persons have rights (natural) independent of and prior to the establishment of government is absurd.

Belief in such rights “is one with belief in witches and in unicorns”*


:)


* MacIntyre, After Virtue
Last edited by ingliz on 16 Jun 2019 14:32, edited 1 time in total.
#15012321
ingliz wrote:No rights existed anterior to the establishment of government. The government is the source of law, and rights are created by the law made by the government. Therefore, the idea that persons have rights (natural) independent of and prior to the establishment of government is absurd.

Belief in such rights “is one with belief in witches and in unicorns”*


:)

* MacIntyre, After Virtue

Laws are created by nature, not by man. Man can only discovers and obeys those laws. Every "law" a government passes is based on nature's laws.
You don't need a government to give you the right to fight. Your life gave you that. This is also true, because no government can take that from you.
#15012322
The Goldpill wrote:Laws are created by nature, not by man. Man can only discovers and obeys those laws.

Bollocks!

Playing with words does not change reality. Your argument is nonsensical; "nonsense on stilts".

Laws are created by man.


:lol:
#15012331
The Goldpill wrote:Really? Did man create...

:lol: :lol: :lol:

You are not very good at this, are you.

Economic explanations of law, besides being analytically incomplete, are not an accurate or conceptually necessary description of law as a social institution.
Last edited by ingliz on 16 Jun 2019 16:22, edited 1 time in total.
#15012337
ingliz wrote::lol: :lol: :lol:

You are not very good at this, are you.

Economic explanations of law, beside being analytically incomplete, are not an accurate or even conceptually necessary description of law as a social institution.


I dunno, maybe. But you lose every single time you post. So, I think I'm doing fine.
How convenient that you only addressed the economic laws and skipped both mathematical and physical laws. lmao
The reason why you think that about economics, is because you have no understanding of it. But to understand those laws, you can't use Marxist economics. For the obvious reasons.
Last edited by The Goldpill on 16 Jun 2019 16:47, edited 1 time in total.
#15012344
I think I'm doing fine.

If posting shite is your idea of doing fine, you are doing an excellent job.

A question:

If the 'laws of economics' ordered the laws of men, why do men pass economically inefficient laws? Normally what is aimed at through economic reasoning is the improvement of efficiency.

Example:

On one model of legislative choice, utility-maximizing legislators maximize their chances of reelection by favoring those parties who can contribute most to their reelection. Concentrated interest groups are such parties. Because the gain to interest groups from legislation that transfers wealth to them exceeds the cost of successful lobbying, the interest groups have an incentive to lobby. And since the resulting loss to any member of the public is less than the cost of lobbying to her, members of the public have no incentive to resist the legislation. Legislation should therefore reflect the desires of interest groups, and because these desires are likely to be redistributive, statutes are unlikely to be efficient.

Daniel A. Farber & Philip P. Frickey, Law and Public Choice 12-37 (1991) discussing the theory of legislation as a manifestation of conflict among private interests.


:)
#15012345
ingliz wrote:If posting shite is your idea of doing fine, you are doing an excellent job.

A question:

If economics dictates the laws of men, why do men pass economically inefficient laws? Normally what is aimed at through economic reasoning is the improvement of efficiency.

Example:

On one model of legislative choice, utility-maximizing legislators maximize their chances of reelection by favoring those parties who can contribute most to their reelection. Concentrated interest groups are such parties. Because the gain to interest groups from legislation that transfers wealth to them exceeds the cost of successful lobbying, the interest groups have an incentive to lobby. And since the resulting loss to any member of the public is less than the cost of lobbying to her, members of the public have no incentive to resist the legislation. Legislation should therefore reflect the desires of interest groups, and because these desires are likely to be redistributive, statutes are unlikely to be efficient.

Daniel A. Farber & Philip P. Frickey, Law and Public Choice 12-37 (1991) (discussing the theory of legislation as a manifestation of conflict among private interests)


:)


No, my job here is to correct your shite.
You still keep skipping that important part, not on purpose of course ;)
Here's the answer to that question:
There can be few reasons why such things occur. First, one might lobby and pass economically inefficient laws for the purpose of destroying ones economies. Kinda like we saw bolshevists do it, or just regular communists. Yuri Bezmenov explains this perfectly, people can find that on Youtube.
The second reason is the one common with all scientific mistakes, where those who try to implement it did not have the full understanding of it in the first place. The same reasons why mathematicians, or physicists make mistakes.

And to address the exact example you provided: because lobbying against was more beneficial than not doing so. You need to understand how value of survival power works, first. But, you do, you're just pretending that you don't.

Tell me Mr. @ingliz , are you one of them?
#15012355
The Goldpill wrote:There can be few reasons why such things occur...

No, there is just one....

The 'laws of economics' do not order the laws of men.

You seem to forget that so much of economics depends on the theory that we are all "rational actors." Yet as behavioral economists such as Daniel Kahneman have shown, we are rarely rational actors. Patterns of behavior are very different from what economic laws assume.

How convenient...

Economic, mathematical, and physical laws (gravity) are irrelevant when discussing 'Natural rights'


:)
#15012362
ingliz wrote:No, there is just one....

The 'laws of economics' do not order the laws of men.

You seem to forget that so much of economics depends on the theory that we are all "rational actors." Yet as behavioral economists such as Daniel Kahneman have shown, we are rarely rational actors. Patterns of behavior are very different from what economic laws assume.


Economic, mathematical, and physical laws (gravity) are irrelevant when discussing 'Natural rights'


:)


Lol, you still didn't answer that question. You said that laws were created by men. I asked you about the laws of math and physics. We weren't discussing Natural Rights.
And you, conveniently, didn't answer my second question. Which was "Are you one of them?"

The laws of economics most definitely order every aspect of human's life, and so they order the state laws people make. Just like the state laws are governed by laws of logic, math, and physics.
Every organism ACTS perfectly rationally. They act the in a best way they can, to achieve the most they can achieve. Go call that guy to come here so I can tell him he's an idiot.
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