Father & daughter die trying to cross US border - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15014410
Warning about the Graphic images.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ico-border

The grim reality of the migration crisis unfolding on America’s southern border has been captured in photographs showing the lifeless bodies of a Salvadoran father and his daughter who drowned as they attempted to cross the Rio Grande into Texas.

The images, taken on Monday, show Óscar Alberto Martínez Ramírez, 26, and his daughter Valeria, lying face down in shallow water. The 23-month-old toddler’s arm is draped around her father’s neck, suggesting that she was clinging to him in her final moments.

Mexican newspapers compared the photograph to the 2015 image of the 3 year old Syrian boy Alan Kurdi who drowned off the Greek island of Kos – although it remains to be seen if it will have the same impact on America’s fierce immigration debate.

Their bodies were discovered on the bank of the river near Matamoros, Mexico, across from Brownsville, Texas, just half a mile (1 kilometer) from an international bridge.

According to Julia Le Duc, a reporter for the newspaper La Jornada, Martínez Ramírez had arrived in Matamoros on Sunday, hoping to request asylum from US authorities with his wife, Vanessa Ávalos, and their daughter.

But when he realized that it could be weeks before they were even able to start the asylum process, Martínez decided they should swim across, said Le Duc, who witnessed Ávalos give her account to the police.

“He crossed first with the little girl and he left her on the American side. Then he turned back to get his wife, but the girl went into the water after him. When he went to save her, the current took them both,” Le Duc told the Guardian.

The image underlines the dangers which mostly Central American migrants face in their attempts to escape violence, corruption and poverty at home and find asylum in the United States.

As part of a broader crack down on migration, the Trump administration has made asylum seekers wait in Mexico while their claims are considered – a process which can take years. Migrants have increasingly turned to more remote and dangerous routes across the southern frontier.

On Sunday, two babies, a toddler and a woman were found dead after succumbing to heat exhaustion in Anzalduas Park, which borders the river in the city of Mission.

Elsewhere three children and an adult from Honduras died in April after their raft capsized on the Rio Grande, and a six-year-old from India was found dead earlier this month in Arizona, where temperatures routinely soar well above 100F.

So far this year, dozens of people have died attempting to cross the Rio Grande, where water levels are at their highest levels in 20 years and record levels of snowmelt run-off have transformed the river into a raging torrent.

Claudia Hernández, a Mexican police officer in the border town of Piedras Negras, told the Guardian: “The river is treacherous and the people who aren’t from here don’t know that. I grew up here along the Río Bravo river [Río Grande]. I wouldn’t even go into that water to bathe or swim. There are springs and whirlpools and when the current takes you it can pull you under.”

Isabel Turcios, a Franciscan nun, the director of the Casa del Migrante shelter in Piedras Negras said that local activists warn migrants not to try their luck on the river, but the US has drastically reduced the number of migrants who are allowed to request asylum each day.

“People get desperate and cannot keep waiting. They just want to cross. So they go to the river and without any form of protection – no lifejacket, nothing to save them – they go into the river. They always tell me that if God wants them to make it then somehow they will make it.”

She added: “It’s not how things should be. They should be able to cross at the bridges. Every human being has the right to migrate. It’s a human right.”

Meanwhile Mexico has launched its own crackdown on migrants as the government scrambles to ward off Trump’s threat of trade tariffs.

“Very regrettable that this would happen,” said President Andrés Manuel López Obrador on Tuesday in response to a question about the latest deaths on the border. “As there is more rejection in the United States, there are people who lose their lives in the desert or crossing” the river.

According to reports in the local press, Martínez, Ávalos and their daughter left their home in the municipality of San Martín in April. But after two months waiting in the southern city of Tapachula – and fearful of the Mexican authorities – the family decided to push on.

“They said they were scared because of the way things were going for migrants, what with the pressure from Trump. That’s why they decided to cross the river. Their plan was to hand themselves into US migration,” Martínez’s sister Wendy told El Diario de Hoy.


Fleeing a hell the US helped create: why Central Americans journey north

One of Martínez’s cousins, Enrique Gómez, tweeted an appeal to the Salvadoran president, Nayib Bukele, pleading for help in repatriating the bodies. Gómez said the family sought assistance from the Salvadoran government but were being charged between $7,000 and $8,000 to repatriate the bodies. Bukele’s office responded by asking Gómez to send a private message and promised to start the repatriations.

The photograph of Martínez and his daughter provoked soul-searching among some Mexicans, but recent polls revealed that attitudes towards migrants have hardened in recent months.

“The image of a father and the little one in the Rio Bravo… is a painful symptom of our systematic failure,” tweeted author Alma Delia Murillo. “And on top of that you have idiots who blame the migrants because ‘they took the risk.’”

Several Democratic presidential candidates, including Kamala Harris, Beto O’Rourke and Cory Booker, also expressed their dismay on Tuesday evening. “Trump is responsible for these deaths,” wrote O’Rourke in a tweet, while Harris called it “a stain on our moral conscience”.

Polling firm Parametría showed 58% of Mexicans opposing migrants entering the country from Central America. Just 32% of respondents expressed the same opinion on November, when caravans from Central America transited the country and were welcomed with outpourings of generosity.


Heartbreaking. :(

This guy - Oscar Alberto Martínez Ramírez - is kind of an asshole. Why he would risk safety for the promise of Free stuff is beyond me. :( US Democrats have blood on their hands and this is just one aspect - they refuse to make the border VERY difficult to get through. Had Mr. Ramirez been "forced" to go through proper channels and border-crossing stations he and his daughter would be alive today.

Admin Edit: Title fixed and Entire Article added.
#15014416
No tears shed.

As soon as they guy found out that his asylum request wouldn't happen within the timeline he wanted, he decided to place not only his life, but the life of his daughter, in peril.

Had he followed the law, what was surely a darling child would be alive today and not floating like trash in the Rio Grande...
#15014423
The tears are for the innocent girl. Breaks my heart. Also breaks my heart: When Politicians rush to create new laws to help those breaking the old laws from suffering the consequence of their actions. :(
#15014426
Traveller wrote:The tears are for the innocent girl. Breaks my heart. Also breaks my heart: When Politicians rush to create new laws to help those breaking the old laws from suffering the consequence of their actions. :(


Oh, it's sad, but it's become so commonplace that I'm numb to it. If these dipshits want to try to break the laws we have, then they deserve every bad thing that happens to them and to those they love.

I stopped caring about them dying a long time ago...
#15014452
Traveller wrote:The tears are for the innocent girl. Breaks my heart. Also breaks my heart: When Politicians rush to create new laws to help those breaking the old laws from suffering the consequence of their actions. :(


Ultimately, what can anyone do? I don't think much can be done.

Letting in a flood of immigrants into the US is not a good idea economically. You can't really stop people from trying to get over here either.... sooo shit like this will happen.
#15014477
It's not just Trump and the Republican Party that has its hands in this terrible crime; the Democrats are just as much involved in this too. Facts prompt us to conclude that the two weeks postponing of the plan to launch attacks on 2,000 immigrant families - as proposed by the Democratic Leaders' House Speaker Nancy Pelosi - is just meant to buy time for more negotiations and agreements (on finance, tactics, etc.) so to build cohesion in their plans in order to launch even more forceful, horrendous attacks on the helpless immigrants, and of course very importantly; to decide on how to control the public anger and the protests resulted from their new policies and actions.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/06/25/immi-j25.html
#15014479
Traveller wrote:maybe people can rise-up in their own countries, do a revolution. Stop electing socialists?


Every time that Central Americans rise up in their own countries and get rid of the despotic dictatorship, the USA comes along and instigates a coup.

This is because the government selected by the people is usually “socialist” and this is not what the US wants.

Socialism is not the problem.
#15014494
Pants-of-dog wrote:@Zionist Nationalist
@Traveller

If that is your argument, please provide evidence that the few isolated socialist governments in Central America are responsible for migration.



Venezuela is responsible for sure but I know you disagree with that because you think everything happened there is yankee fault
Mexico is doing nothing to stop the immigration because they are actually benefiting from that

https://money.cnn.com/2018/01/02/news/e ... index.html


Socialism is part of the problem but its not the main issue the main issues are mismanagement and corruption and its mostly due to the local culture
the US indeed messed up that part of the world a few times during the cold war but thats not the case anymore you cant have the yankee as the scapegoat all the time its time to take responsibility

South America is extremely violent this violence pushes people to desperation and they seek better life in north America but thats not the fault of the US government thats due to their culture and a governments that have no clue how to handle this issue
#15014495
Venezuela is not in Central America and is not one of the countries that has a lot of migrants going to the US.

So even if we accept that “socialism is the problem” for Venezuela, that us still irrelevant to the Us migration debate.
#15014498
Pants-of-dog wrote:@Zionist Nationalist
@Traveller

If that is your argument, please provide evidence that the few isolated socialist governments in Central America are responsible for migration.


Socialism isn't always about a socialist government. The more socialist the government the less-free the people. The more corruption and government 'taking care of' the people the more they want to flee. It was well-said, the governments of the nations are drivers to the immigration issue.
#15014504
Traveller wrote:Socialism isn't always about a socialist government. The more socialist the government the less-free the people. The more corruption and government 'taking care of' the people the more they want to flee. It was well-said, the governments of the nations are drivers to the immigration issue.


I understand the hypothesis.

What I would like is empirical evidence that the hypothesis is true.

What we usually see when we look at things like migrant testimonials are things like: fleeing violence, economic opportunities, et cetera. “Loss of economic freedom” is never cited as a reason for migration, in my experience.
#15014506
Pants-of-dog wrote:
I understand the hypothesis.

What I would like is empirical evidence that the hypothesis is true.

What we usually see when we look at things like migrant testimonials are things like: fleeing violence, economic opportunities, et cetera. “Loss of economic freedom” is never cited as a reason for migration, in my experience.


I wonder if you dont want empirical evidence or any evidence would be summarily dismissed by you. Loss of Economic Freedom IS "I wanna sneak in to america because i have a chance for a better job/life" - it means the same thing, functionally. There isn't one Liberty-minded, NON uber-socialist type country i can think of that has an issue with so many of their citizens trying to leave. The empirical evidence? Impossible to provide empirical evidence of somebody's motivation, which is never truly known.
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