What are your thoughts on Brexit? - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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What are your thoughts on Brexit?

Yes
9
45%
No
5
25%
I believe in a united Ireland
6
30%
#15017082
Traveller wrote:Ultimately, Brexit is a good, good, good idea for the UK. Really good. At a minimum, I think the more the global economy integrates, the greater risk for government oppression, which gives rise to revolution. Brexit moves away from that.


WTF I love globalism now.
#15017131
Brexit is good in that it demonstrates beyond a shadow of a doubt the total idiocy of populism. The populists have been spreading their simplistic ideas about national sovereignty and the like without ever having had to prove the validity of their arguments. Actually having to implement the withdrawal from the community demonstrates just how vacuous the populist arguments are.

The EU is the greatest achievement in human history. The HRE outlawed blood feuds in Europe nearly 1,000 years ago. Since then, the nation state and the monopoly of power of the state have gradually replaced tribal structures still prevalent in the greater ME. In this logic, the EU goes one step further by substituting the tribalism of the nation state for the greater good of the community of nations.

The UK is imprisoned by its imperial past. It cannot be satisfied by being one member of a community since it’s striving for hegemony. As a union of small nations, the EU protects its members against the imperialist ambitions of the great powers both inside and outside. Thus, the EU is not the negation of the nation. Quite on the contrary, it is the guarantor of national sovereignty as a defensive union against the imperial powers.

As an illustration of the above: without the EU, Ireland would be at the mercy of the UK. With the EU, the tables are turned and a small country like Ireland finds itself with more leverage than the UK.
#15018170
Atlantis wrote:With the EU, the tables are turned and a small country like Ireland finds itself with more leverage than the UK.

The EU has used Ireland as a pawn against the UK much like an "imperial power" would.
#15018298
Rancid wrote:Ultimately, Brexit is a bad, bad, bad idea for the UK. Really bad. At a minimum, I think the more the global economy integrates, the better for world peace.


The pax technocratica of the EU isn't what I'd call peace, it's more of hegemonic order imposed by an anti-democratic supranational entity. And it hasn't made the world a safer place, it has provoked a virulent rightwing backlash that continues to grow more and more radical. The EU is bad, bad, bad for world peace. Really bad.
#15018385
Sivad wrote:The pax technocratica of the EU isn't what I'd call peace, it's more of hegemonic order imposed by an anti-democratic supranational entity.

Yeah, I think people don't appreciate the difference between international cooperation and supra-nationalism. The EU is all about the latter and long past the point of mere economic integration.
#15018399
Kaiserschmarrn wrote:Yeah, I think people don't appreciate the difference between international cooperation and supra-nationalism. The EU is all about the latter and long past the point of mere economic integration.


The difference is cooperation is voluntary and leaves sovereignty intact, supranational globalism is a deliberate strategy of entangling states into systems of complex interdependencies which effectively nullify sovereignty and override democracy.
#15018403
Sivad wrote:The difference is cooperation is voluntary and leaves sovereignty intact, supranational globalism is a deliberate strategy of entangling states into systems of complex interdependencies which effectively nullify sovereignty and override democracy.

Pretty much, although people who know this but want to see the EU as benign will argue about the grey areas.
#15018475
The EU is good for Britain. Every review undertaken on behalf of Whitehall has shown that.

Brexit is very bad. Everything that has happened since the referendum has shown that beyond doubt.
#15018720
snapdragon wrote:The EU is good for Britain. Every review undertaken on behalf of Whitehall has shown that.

The UK is not a corporation. As much as Remainers want to make the UK a province of the EU, it is and hopefully will be in the future a nation state which means its interests are not confined to short and medium term economics.
#15018746
snapdragon wrote:The EU is good for Britain. Every review undertaken on behalf of Whitehall has shown that.


I'm sure they do. :lol:
#15019689
No good blaming us.

You want to blame those dimwit leavers in the Tory government who voted to reject May's deal.

I don't think Boris Johnson wants to leave or has any intention of leaving, but by putting forward daft ideas - such as proroguing Parliament - he's making it look as if he's trying hard to please the brexiters, when in actual fact he's making it impossible to leave.

He can then say how sorry he is to have let his supporters down, but he wasn't allowed to do what was needed.

Mark my words. I actually hope he gets away with it.
#15019719
Johnson isn't smart enough to bluff. He may well be dumb enough to leave with no deal I'm sure. However parliament isn't so stupid, so I have no doubt he faces a no confidence bid by the end of September if he plans to continue down this road of 'do or die'.

Johnson is a short but critical part of the general election for 2019 and a Swinson government there after (...I hope :p )
#15019789
The best description of Boris Johnson was on the last Stephen Colbert show...
"Boris Johnson is a failed Donald Trump clone." - John Oliver.


:lol:

@Palmyrene , Everybody is a little bit fascist.

@Hindsite Quote the relevant text.

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