Vast protest in Hong Kong against extradition law - Page 17 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15019997
21 Jul. Another day of protest. For this and next Sunday I am involved in some (unrelated) volunteer work so my family participated / will participate in my stead.

Currently a lot of news about "violence" going on. Some are related to real protesters in clashes with police because they don't want to go, while there's another involving some mafia members entering a metro train and beating people up. I realized that many will probably side with likes of skinster upon seeing the latter, but I believe that it's actually the Chinese Communist Party who send fake protesters to make us look bad, or ask the mafia to stir things up and induce fear among us. The Communists are masters of infiltration, after all.

My family, especially my parents, do not hesitate to read all sources before making a decision (admittedly I don't have this kind of patience, but if such situation arises I will try to stay neutral). If things like these happen and they still do not change their mind, the chance is more than 80% that the cause they support is correct. By extension, anyone who takes the recent development and the "violence" by face value, and then proceeds to denounce this movement as "foreign controlled violence", is effectively a Chinese ball-licking scum of human being, and probably one of the (relatively) few who fulfill the criteria of "Lebensunwertes Leben".
#15020065
Patrickov wrote:21 Jul. Another day of protest. For this and next Sunday I am involved in some (unrelated) volunteer work so my family participated / will participate in my stead.

Currently a lot of news about "violence" going on. Some are related to real protesters in clashes with police because they don't want to go, while there's another involving some mafia members entering a metro train and beating people up. I realized that many will probably side with likes of skinster upon seeing the latter, but I believe that it's actually the Chinese Communist Party who send fake protesters to make us look bad, or ask the mafia to stir things up and induce fear among us. The Communists are masters of infiltration, after all.

My family, especially my parents, do not hesitate to read all sources before making a decision (admittedly I don't have this kind of patience, but if such situation arises I will try to stay neutral). If things like these happen and they still do not change their mind, the chance is more than 80% that the cause they support is correct. By extension, anyone who takes the recent development and the "violence" by face value, and then proceeds to denounce this movement as "foreign controlled violence", is effectively a Chinese ball-licking scum of human being, and probably one of the (relatively) few who fulfill the criteria of "Lebensunwertes Leben".

Why are you trying to defend against some accusations of violence? The point of most massive protests is to enforce the protesters will over something or someone by showing that you have either very large support or a majority. Violence is a given at some point under such conditions nor it is inherently bad. THE REASON why some of the great pasificts succeeded is because they had violent mobs behind them if the negotiations failed (Ghandi, Dr MLK, etc)
#15020127
JohnRawls wrote:Why are you trying to defend against some accusations of violence? The point of most massive protests is to enforce the protesters will over something or someone by showing that you have either very large support or a majority. Violence is a given at some point under such conditions nor it is inherently bad. THE REASON why some of the great pasificts succeeded is because they had violent mobs behind them if the negotiations failed (Ghandi, Dr MLK, etc)


I have no intention to defend any kind of violence. In fact, as I said before, the metro trains attacks are widely agreed as pro-Government / pro-Chinese camp's action. There's even a video allegedly showing a hardline pro-Beijing MP coming out and thanking the mafia in person.

However, with the Chinese government unwilling and / or unable to make any concessions, no one can guaruntee everyone on their side can stay patient forever. The problem is, where to draw the line beyond which you gotta excommunicate somebody.
#15020131
skinster wrote:You don't consider scrapping the extradition law to be a concession?


1. Few believe it's a real scrapping
2. Now there's another problem that the police uses excessive violence but the Government refuses to set up an independent committee to investigate the issue and (possibly) prosecute the perpetrators (a.k.a. chiefs of police)
3. People generally no longer trusts the Government or Beijing in any potentially political move, although this one is harder to address given the current economic-political environment.
Last edited by Patrickov on 22 Jul 2019 03:06, edited 1 time in total.
#15020137
skinster wrote:You don't consider scrapping the extradition law to be a concession?


Nope.

It's a flimsy verbal agreement at the moment. They want a written legally binding contract and apology.

They are right to demand one.
#15020213
colliric wrote:https://youtu.be/RtfZeC8ltfs

Cunts.

CCP stooges.


Looks like a coordinated attack. A bunch of guys dressed in almost all white for recognition in their 20-30s.....
#15020221
JohnRawls wrote:Looks like a coordinated attack. A bunch of guys dressed in almost all white for recognition in their 20-30s.....


It is. The town in concern (Yuen Long) allegedly became a no-man's land today.

While the Government vowed to catch the perpertrators, we tend to believe theyand the police are in fact in coordination with these bandits instead.

If there's justice, Revelation 20:9 should happen anytime NOW.
#15020222
Patrickov wrote:
It is. The town in concern (Yuen Long) allegedly became a no-man's land today.

While the Government vowed to catch the perpertrators, we tend to believe theyand the police are in fact in coordination with these bandits instead.

If there's justice, Revelation 20:9 should happen anytime NOW.


Sounds like the police cheif and thus department is in the pocket of Beijing.
#15020235
Rancid wrote:False flag, or CIA meddling, etc. etc. etc.


*Drinks hot chilly sauce to exorcise the goblins* NEW WORLD ORDER!!! Government sponsored gay frogs!!! CHEMTRAILS!!! *Takes another sip* CIA FALSE FLAG AGAINST ANTI-BEIJING PROTESTERS!!!
#15020250
Rancid wrote:Sounds like the police cheif and thus department is in the pocket of Beijing.


Indeed. I think anybody sanctioning this is actually committing crimes against humanity, and there should be someone out there blast down the perpetrators' lair, capture these scums of human being, and send them to the Hague for a good trial, so that example is set for the world.
#15020967
2019-07-24 Update 1

The MP who publicly thanked the thugs who beat the people on Sunday, had his parents' tomb defaced and children's information exposed.

Grave Insult: Tombs of pro-Beijing pol’s parents desecrated amid deepening feud

Critics of lawmaker Junius Ho today escalated their feud to new heights — or shameful new lows, as the case may be — circulating images of what appear to be the desecrated tombs of the pro-Beijing firebrand’s parents.

Ho, who is no stranger to controversy, has been the target of a massive outpouring of anger ever since he was filmed on Sunday night palling around with a group of men later linked to the vicious attacks on protesters and commuters at Yuen Long MTR stations.

After Ho offered a half-hearted condemnation of the attack, while simultaneously calling the perpetrators “heroes,” opponents responded by trashing one of his offices in Tsuen Wan yesterday afternoon.

The feud deepened today, as Ho refused to give an inch in public appearances — despite criticism from such disparate sources as his alma mater and the local horse racing industry — and his critics took their own responses far beyond the realm of lawful dissent.

Ho kicked things off with an appearance on an RTHK program that began as typical talk show fodder, and ended with him storming out after calling a fellow guest “scum” and getting heckled by an RTHK staffer.

During the discussion, Ho went on the offensive against the city’s long-running anti-extradition movement, urging Hongkongers to “stop and think whether we should continue with these so-called peaceful protests” amid repeated violent clashes.

When localist-leaning pro-dem lawmaker Eddie Chu Hoi-dick, who was also on the program, questioned out Ho’s apparent chumminess with the decidedly violent Yuen Long attackers, Ho hit back, saying, “You led the riots and tore Hong Kong society apart, so you should be investigated.”

Ho went on to demand future protests be stopped — and demanded that his fellow guest say so too.

Chu had questioned plans for a “Reclaim Yuen Long” protest this weekend while appearing on a different program this morning, saying such a move was risky and urging anyone who did participate not to “give the villagers a reason to fight back.”

“Make a public appeal now to ask Hong Kong people to stop with the protests,” Ho demanded of Chu on RTHK, becoming increasingly animated as he shook Chu by the shoulder and pointed to the cameras (around 18 minutes into the video above).

“Look at the camera and say it!” Ho continued, as a perturbed-looking Chu refused.

The heated conversation continued for a few minutes more, with Chu at one point listing the key demands of recent demonstrations. As he reached “release the protesters” — in reference to calls for amnesty for those arrested — Ho could finally bear no more, rapping the table with his knuckles as he shouted Chu down.

“You are a lawmaker and you bring violence into the LegCo, and now you are bringing violence to the society? You’re scum!” Ho shouted, slamming the table with both palms one last time for emphasis before standing up, removing his mic, and storming out.

As a parting jab as he walked away from the table, Ho angrily told Chu that he didn’t deserve to be a lawmaker. Immediately, a voice from off-camera calls out: “You don’t either!”

Ho can be heard asking who the person is, with the heckler responding, “I’m RTHK staff and a Hong Kong voter.”

Still fired up from the on-air exchange, Ho stepped out of the studio and into an energetic press conference inside the broadcaster’s lobby, accusing Chu of inciting protesters, and at one point saying he didn’t need to disavow Sunday’s white-clad attackers because reporters in the press pack were wearing white too.

“Not only the villagers, all residents in Hong Kong should abide by the law, should behave themselves!” Ho testily replied, when asked if he would encourage Yuen Long residents not to attack people. “This is the starting point! Why do you just ask me to appeal to the villagers?”

As Ho leaves the press conference, a small crowd outside RTHK’s gate begins taunting him. Seemingly energized by the heckling, Ho walks to the gate, gestures for the traffic barrier to be raised, and walks out into the street.

“It is okay to give opinions, any opinions,” he tells the crowd. “Even if you swore at me — I’m used to it.”

Ho managed to largely keep his cool while speaking to the crowd — despite one person cheekily boop-ing him in the nose with a mic — at one point joking about people throwing shoes at him.

“Make sure it’s a pair — I wear size 8.5,” he said, before finally getting a van and being driven off.

Around the same time Ho was appearing on their program, RTHK reported that members of the horse racing community were petitioning the Hong Kong Jockey Club to cancel Ho’s membership and bar his horse, the 3-year-old Hong Kong Bet, from all races over Ho’s alleged violation of club rules. Thousands had signed similar petition at Ho’s alma mater, Queen’s College, condemning Ho for “siding with mobs.”

A few hours later, at around 2:50pm, police were called to one of Ho’s offices in Tin Shui Wai, which had been surrounded by protesters, Apple Daily reports. Police escorted Ho’s staffer away in a police car, and the office was closed about three hours early as the crowd transformed its facade into an impromptu “Lennon Wall.”

Another crowd gathered at Ho’s offices in Tuen Mun at around the same time, throwing eggs at the sign, and posting messages calling for universal suffrage on its security shutter.

Police visited the scene briefly, but declined to take action against any of the protesters, and neither scene had descended into the kind of property damage witnessed at Ho’s office in Tsuen Wan as of press time.

But the anti-Ho antics escalated from from civil disobedience to wholly uncivil vandalism when an unknown person or persons did the one thing that might engender sympathy for the unapologetic pugilist: they desecrated the tombs of his mother and father.

The phrase “Collusion between police and gangsters” is spray painted in black on the wall behind the tomb, which also bears the names of the couple’s children, including Junius. The names of Ho’s parents, meanwhile, are blacked out and their gravestones painted with vulgar Cantonese words.

The majority of those commenting on the photos on local forum LIHKG today reacted to the vandalism with glee.

“The scene that I’ve been looking forward to is finally here,” one said.

“This is so satisfying,” said another.

Users were quick to lay the true blame for the vandalism at the feet of the white-clad thugs who stormed Yuen Long MTR station on Sunday. Rumors also began circulating today that Ho had hired the thugs and failed to pay them, thus provoking revenge on his ancestors by the triads.

One of the spray painted messages at the gravesite reads “by Shing Wo,” appearing to assign responsibility for the desecration to one of the major triads in Hong Kong.

Reactions to the vandalism on Twitter were a bit more subdued.

“How this helps the larger cause is beyond me,” one user said. “Certainly made defending Ho easier for his supporters (by talking about issues like this instead of his actual actions).”

“Now you [are] becoming like them,” another said. “Such a wrong move…”

As of press time, Ho had not responded to the vandalism, but local lawmaker Kenneth Lau, who represents New Territories villagers addressed the issue after it was raised by a reporter in a press conference.

“If this is true, knowing Lawyer Ho’s personality, he would probably call the police,” Lau said with a chuckle. “Our people in the New Territories respect our ancestors very much. The perpetrator of this act needs to bear the legal consequences. This kind of behavior shouldn’t happen.”


Before placing the blame on the pro-freedom people, I must assert that the MP in concern is from local rural villages, and these peoples' ancestral tombs are either very secretive or well-guarded. Anybody who could do such a thing is probably an insider, instead of some common folks like us. Indeed, his reaction to the event was drastically different from his arrogant stance in these few days, fueling a lot of speculation that the attack was probably from someone close to him rather than his "political enemies".

#15020971
20190724 Update 2

My Dad somehow referred me to read this one (he mentioned the event but I looked the news up myself)

Pro-China and pro-Hong Kong students clash at University of Queensland

Pro-Hong Kong and pro-China students have clashed at the University of Queensland during a protest against Hong Kong’s controversial extradition law.

The protest, organised by Hong Kong international students to coincide with the university’s market day, turned violent when it was interrupted by other students.

Nilsson Jones, an editor of the university’s student magazine Semper Floreat, told Guardian Australia pro-Chinese students ripped up signs supporting Hong Kong and protesting against the Chinese state’s treatment of its Uighur population.

“There were signs saying ‘One million Muslims detained, ‘Free Hong Kong’ and things like that. Tensions escalated when Chinese students arrived – there were students holding speakers and blasting the Chinese national anthem.

“Things escalated and turned violent when pro-Chinese students started ripping up signs that the protesters were holding.”

Jones captured footage of two students punching and shoving each other on the university’s Brisbane campus.

Jones estimated there were 50 Hong Kong international students and 100 or more domestic students in the original protest, opposed by 200 or more counter-protesters.

The University of Queensland said campus security called police to the scene.

“One of the roles of universities is to enable open, respectful and lawful free speech, including debate about ideas we may not all support or agree with,” the university said in a statement.

“The university expects staff and students to express their views in a lawful and respectful manner … Earlier today, in response to safety concerns resulting from a student-initiated protest on campus, the university requested police support.

“On the advice of police, protestors were requested to move on. The safety of all students is paramount to the university.”







So much for patriotism. You can dislike me for my advocacy to Western Imperialism, but this is only because I have seen worse.
#15022077
Update 2019-07-29

Another weekend of clashes and China finally decides to break (relative) silence.

Lily Kuo wrote:Police and protesters clash throughout Hong Kong on third day of unrest

Hong Kong has had its third consecutive day of mass protests as demonstrators and riot police firing teargas and rubber bullets clashed in several locations throughout the city.

Tens of thousands of protesters, dressed in black and armed with umbrellas and hardhats, defied police orders to keep Sunday’s rally constrained to a park in central Hong Kong and fanned out across the city in the early evening. They streamed west and east, occupying main roads, setting up barricades, and chanting: “Reclaim Hong Kong!”

As the city endured a tense calm on Monday, all eyes were on Beijing where it was expected that the Hong Kong and Macao affairs office – China’s highest level body on the former British colony – would be holding a press conference at 3 pm local time (0700 GMT).

It is believed to be the first time the unit has held a press briefing since Hong Kong was handed over to Beijing in 1997 and comes amid a flurry of condemnation of the protests from China’s state media.

In the latest round of editorials, China Daily claimed that “external forces” and “outside meddling” were to blame for the unrest.

It comes after the protesters again made Beijing’s representative office in Hong Kong a target for their anger on Sunday.

Riot police blocked a contingent of demonstrators on their way to the building and as the crowd grew, police fired tear gas and rubber bullets. The protesters responded by throwing umbrellas, rocks, eggs, and gas canisters back at the police. The protesters created a drum beat using street signs and traffic barriers as they tried to hold their ground.

“It lasted a whole minute. It was at least 10 rounds,” said Long, a 25-year-old medical volunteer who said he had helped pull demonstrators back from the frontline when they were stumbling and unable to see.

Over the past three days, demonstrators have rallied to condemn an attack last weekend on commuters by suspected triad gangs, an incident that has led to accusations of government collusion, denied by Hong Kong officials.

On Saturday, a peaceful march in the town of Yuen Long turned chaotic as police fired teargas, rubber bullets and sponge grenades, and charged protesters in a railway station. Thousands of demonstrators joined aviation workers at the airport for an 11-hour-sit-in on Friday.

The former British colony is facing its most serious political crisis since it was returned to Chinese control in 1997. Under the terms of that agreement, the semi-autonomous region was meant to maintain a “high degree of autonomy” through an independent judiciary, a free press and an open market economy, a framework known as: “One country, two systems.”

Sunday’s protests marked the eighth consecutive weekend that Hongkongers have taken to the streets in protests that began over an extradition bill that would have allowed wanted suspects to be sent to mainland China.

As the police fired continuous rounds of teargas into crowds on Sunday, some protesters fell to ground choking. One group sought refuge in a nearby apartment building when residents opened the gate, ushering them in. Demonstrators collapsed on the stairwell, some of them crying.

“Even though the protesters are peaceful, they keep throwing the teargas. I don’t know why they keep throwing,” said Hinton, 16, who had tears in his eyes after being gassed.

Police said they used teargas to disperse protesters who were hurling bricks at them but protesters insisted police fired first. “We are trying to protect our own freedom. We are doing this for this place, our place. I’ll be honest, I did throw things because I’m that angry,” said one protester, Angus, 24.

The protesters were then pushed back to smaller roads in Sheung Wan, a normally busy neighbourhood turned into a ghost town after shops closed and residents were warned to stay inside. Tourists and residents ran from the scene, covering their eyes and mouths.

Before midnight, the police had surrounded the protesters, shielding themselves with wooden boards and street signs. Teargas was lobbed at the protesters from all directions, shrouding the road and forcing the protesters to enter a mass transit station and leave.

Some protesters said the police appeared to escalating their tactics, with officers firing on protesters earlier and more frequently. “I can’t even count how many rounds of teargas they used,” said Roy Chan, 39.

In a statement, the government said protesters had pushed a cart of burning cardboard at police, “threatening the safety of police officers and members of public”. The government said it would “continue to give full support to police to strictly enforce the law to stop all violent behaviours”.

Police said 49 people had been arrested in relation to Sunday’s protest, for suspected unlawful assembly and possession of assault weapons.

Organisers for Sunday’s event had originally planned to march from central Hong Kong to Sheung Wan to condemn the police for firing teargas and rubber bullets on protesters last weekend. The police did not grant a permit for the march – the second time authorities have rejected a protest request – following a ban on the Saturday rally in Yuen Long.

Protesters fear authorities will adopt this line more in the future. On Sunday, one of the organisers of the Yuen Long rally, Max Chung, was arrested by police on suspicion of inciting an illegal assembly.

Some say the situation risks spiralling out of control as the public doubts the Hong Kong government’s ability to govern and Beijing is likely to pressure Hong Kong authorities to take a harder line on protesters. As protesters continue to clash with police, people have only grown more frustrated, fuelling yet more demonstrations.

“There’s a lot of public anger and I don’t think that’s going to go away soon,” said James Yip, 27, part of the group of protesters leaving Sheung Wan. “I think everyone is exhausted on both side, pro-government and pro-democracy.”

Exhaustion among protests appears to have set in as well. Amy Yeung, 26, has been attending as many protests as she can. “I am mentally tired. Watching the news, you cry,” she said. “But at least standing here, we are giving the message that we are not alone.”

On Sunday, protesters said they were more angry than exhausted and would continue. Jonathan, 19, who was resting on a curb away from the frontline in between rounds of teargas, said: “They see us as a threat because we are having an impact.”

Residents have seen Beijing’s influence over Hong Kong grow in recent years, as activists have been jailed and pro-democracy lawmakers disqualified from running or holding office. Independent book sellers have disappeared from the city, to reappear in mainland China facing charges, a point critics of the extradition bill often make.

“It seems to us that this is our last chance. If we don’t do this now, we won’t be able to later,” said Eunice Chan, 55, who grew up in Hong Kong before it was returned to Chinese control in 1997.

The Guardian


Obviously there are speculations on the upcoming statement from Beijing. In general, the speculations are three main directions:
  1. At least some degree of giving in, including an official retraction of the bill, and establishment of an independent investigation committee on the clashes. (Consensus is not reached for whether Carrie Lam is "allowed" to go, as there are probably problems on "choosing" who to succeed)
  2. A hard-line condemnation or even imposing martial law, just like what Beijing had 30 years ago.
  3. Simply a repetition of recent commentaries from CCP mouthpieces without new information.

While option 2 is obviously the bleakest, even option 1 is possible not to make protesters satisfied and make things worse, though I cannot think of better options as well. Therefore, there're a lot of variables in between, and I will give updates later.

Everyone is also welcome to make predictions, but please refrain from making emotional statements. Thanks.
#15022561
colliric wrote:A pack of bastards.....


If you can kill them all then this single action worths much more than 1,000,000x words like this.
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