@Palmyrene
Dude, I've been to Lebanon and I know this is completely wrong. I've met poor Maronites. Dime the dozen actually. The point of the matter is that your system that you're describing either doesn't work as you think it does or isn't an option for most Maronites.
Where?
Lebanon still has segregated areas, Maronite areas are some of the richest in general.
Furthermore, if you were actually honest and actually met Maronites, you'd have known they have Al-Quwat, Al-Kataeb, The Maronite church, along with various other churches all running well fare programs.
But you don't know any Maronites, nor have been to their areas.
1. It's laughable that you think a majority of your population's country is not poor or working class. It's like how Americans all see themselves as "middle class" when their wealth disparity is noted.
There are easily accessible state and non state maps and stats showing where poverty is concentrated in the country and where each group lives. It's easier since Lebanon is highly segregated with minor exceptions.
2. Ah so all the Arab nationalists live in one place right? Well a study was done by the Doha Institute which, in their Arab opinion index, saw that a majority of Arabs (including Lebanon) support pan-Arabism.
If you're honest and been to Lebanon, ask them where are the Baath party, Syrian nationalist party, and Pan Arabists are concentrated. They'll give you specific areas. And considering that they routinely form gangs, everyone is pretty much familiar with them and where they are in Lebanon.
The fact that you don't know that just comes to show how much you don't know about Lebanon.
2. Ah so all the Arab nationalists live in one place right? Well a study was done by the Doha Institute which, in their Arab opinion index, saw that a majority of Arabs (including Lebanon) support pan-Arabism.
Quote the stat:
Anasawad. We've talked about this. No borders are justified. There is no such thing as a border even if there was a huge natural wall seperating Lebanon from the rest of the world. Even if Lebanon was an island suddenly there would be no borders.
And if we're going for geography, Lebanin rests on the Arabian plate which us a teutonic plate that includes most of Kurdistan too.
Simply because the Epic of Gilgamesh refers to Cedar forests does not mean they were referring specifically to the Republic of Lebanon and it's current modern borders.
It refers to the Lebanese cedar forests.
No, they aren't. The oldest fucking inscription of Arabic can be found in Palestine and Lebanon. We've talked about this several times.
Yes, we have, the oldest proto-Arabic text was discovered in the Levant because that's where all alphabets were started.
However, we also showed multiple times that Arabic as a language is believed to originate either from Yemen or Hijaz.
That doesn't indicate they even referred to themselves as Canaanites just that we needed a name for the people who lived in the Near East during the Bronze Age.
Also Lebanese, once again, isn't an ethnicity. No one identifies as ethnic Lebanese.
Then Jews aren't an ethnicity, and Assyrians and Aramaeans aren't either.
Nor is anyone, right ?
I've been to Lebanon several times and most people identified as Arabs so unless you have statistically proof that most Lebanese people do not identify as Arab they are Arabs.
I'm going to Lebanon in a couple of weeks, we'll meet and I'll take you around all of the Beqa' and Maronite and Christian areas so you can ask people whether they identify as Arabs or not.
Though, I'd advice not to argue they are. People are heavily armed in these areas and not very fond of Arabs in general and Syrians in specific.
Which, funny, also another point why I don't believe you actually been to Lebanon and asked or made friends with Maronites and got to know them.
Considering the current situation, they really really dislike Syrians and have even pushed policies to prevent Syrians from working and actively put curfews against Syrians in their areas.
What you describe isn't Lebanon.
And the fact that you're not aware of this fact is more than enough evidence for me to know you've never been to Lebanon and went around.
I've posted a list of every single person from the 11th century onward who identified as Arab done to occupation. Do I need to post it again?
I can post a list of people in Britain who identified as German or Frankish, doesn't mean English people stopped existing.
The taif agreement was about Syria withdrawing from Lebanon. Why would they use Lebanon's Arabness to conquer them if the taif agreement was about them leaving Lebanon?
The Taif agreement forced Lebanon to adjust its constitution to declare it self an Arab country, as well as gave Syria the rights to the port of Beirut, which is an issue still contested to this day with Syria as Lebanon was forced militarily to agree to it.
The timeline in the agreeement not only wasn't followed, but was intended to be after Syria had already ceased most of what it wants. Which is why Syria ended up leaving Lebanon by a revolution not willingly.
Read up on it.
I never said they didn't. Also Arabs who grew up in Lebanon would also be native.
They wont. If that was the case then Palestinians born and growing up in Lebanon would be native as well.
They clearly aren't.
Furthermore, Arabs living in tribes hold the national identity of their tribe, you can see those in Anjar and the areas around it north of Rashia.
Arabs living in the cities don't identify with Lebanon to begin with and identify with the larger Arab world.
An issue ironically discussed with bullets during the civil war.
Yeah Baalbek is the entirety of Lebanon. I don't believe you. You're taking a small town or city in Lebanon and saying they're the majority.
1- Baalbek is the largest province in Lebanon.
2- Baalbek tribes consists of around 20% of the population.
Lebanese identifying as Arabs aren't oppressing you. It's their identity not yours.
They're not. But they do when they try to enforce their identity on others.
Which is another reason for the high segregation in Lebanon.
It's funny how anyone even bothering to look at the maps of Lebanon and the ethnic and demographic distributions would easily see this and there are even entire books and even wars fought on this issue (including a key part of the civil war), yet you don't know about it.
Either you don't know anything about Lebanon, nor have ever been to Lebanon. Or you just don't understand what you read if you read it.
What is now modern day Lebanon was either a bunch of city states who didn't identify as Lebanese at all or was the part of empires. Just liks Syria and Iraq and Jordan and Palestine.
The Greeks were a bunch of city states, the Assyrians were a bunch of city states, the Persians were a bunch of city states and kingdoms, etc.
That's how all nations started, it doesn't stop them from being nations.
But ofcourse, You already previously said that Persia didn't exist until Alexander of Macedonia came along, so I'm gonna assume you also don't understand anything about this topic.
That's false. I've been to only the biggest areas of Lebanon and most people identified as Arab.
Which is?
Go on, I want you to tell me which area you've been to.
Because, here is the thing, I know which area is the largest with the most population and not only lived there for a couple of years, but I also know many who live there, so if you actually been there I can know who you are with a couple of phone calls and verify everything you say.
Furthermore, How do you know they identify as Arabs? You went around asking?
And since we're assuming you're now 15 years old, then it must have happened when you're younger; How did you do all these "surveys" when you were that young?
You mean minorities? And only upper class Maronites don't identify as Arab. I know this from experience.
No you don't.
First because there is no way you've met anyone from the Maronite upper class since most live in heavily gaurded areas where very few are allowed to go in (something anyone who've ever been to Lebanon for a while would've easily noticed), and secondly because Maronites, on average, hate Arabs and large portions of Muslims and actively take actions against them.
Again, something anyone who've been to Lebanon recently or even followed Lebanese news would've easily noticed.
They don't.
There are atleast 14 million Lebanese people right now, what's the percentage of Maronites is in your opinion?
How can pan-Arabists brainwash vast swathes of the population while most Lebanese simulatenously don't identify as Arabs and, presumably, hate Arabs.
Your population, not ours.
It just comes across as you using pan-Arabism as a boogey man. It's basically Umberto Eco's fascism where the enemy has to be strong but also weak at the same time.
Not really; You see, a boogy man is something that doesn't exist, while Arab nationalists and Islamic nationalists alongside them not only exist but are actively waging wars and committing massacres and genocides all over the place and have been doing so for centuries.
So a majority of the population? Also they're pan Arabist not Baathist. Baathism is different.
Baathism is Arab nationalism mixed with Socialism. Pan-Arabism is part of Baathism.
I'm sure you'd have noticed that fact if you read the history of the region in the past few decades, but that would be too much to ask of you I assume.
Yeah no poverty doesn't just disappear after you stop calling yourself Arab. That's completely ridiculous.
It's like saying if you remove all the Jews then life will be great. In fact that's exactly what Nazis said.
When you switch system and policy, you can indeed solve poverty.
Dude poor people don't have one geographical area where they live. They're everywhere. Sidon or Beruit has homeless people and poor areas everywhere. Unemployment is pretty high. Things aren't great.
Yet apparently you ignore all of this to cherry pick Hezbollah or Palestinian territories and say "these are the only poor people". No, they aren't.
The country is currently going through a recission, that indeed is true. However, Poverty is mostly prevelant in certain areas.
Now, here a little test, since you've been to Lebanon and know these areas.
What're the flags usually raised there? There are plenty of flags and banners signifying movements and who's in control in an area, and if you've been there you must have noticed them since they're everywhere.
In those poor areas, which flags and banners are raised?
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