Who here unironically supports Israel? - Page 13 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Polls on politics, news, current affairs and history.

Do you unironically support Israel?

Yes
16
39%
No
21
51%
No opinion
4
10%
#15026798
Code Rood wrote:Supporting Zionist Israel means you support endless wars, the de-industrialization of the West, mass-immigration towards the West, blackmail operations and many other bad things. So I will go for no.


I think that we in the West are more than capable of doing this to ourselves through our own mistakes and policies. Israel has very little to do with the general trend. This feels like the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" level of paranoia...
#15026803
JohnRawls wrote:I think that we in the West are more than capable of doing this to ourselves through our own mistakes and policies. Israel has very little to do with the general trend. This feels like the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" level of paranoia...


Sure, mistakes can be made. Unfortunately we're talking about something bigger here. The march towards absolute nihilism is not a mistake. Pretty much everything that's happening in the West right now is meant to harm. I don't think many people really understand that the Western world is on the edge of a cliff. Morally, culturally.. you name it. That's not a mistake. How did we get there? The most wealthy and powerful people being controlled by a blackmail operation is one reason how. And if that makes you think of the Protocols, fine. I want the situation fixed. If that means I'll offend some people to get there, so be it. The Western world needs recovery.
#15026809
Code Rood wrote:Sure, mistakes can be made. Unfortunately we're talking about something bigger here. The march towards absolute nihilism is not a mistake. Pretty much everything that's happening in the West right now is meant to harm. I don't think many people really understand that the Western world is on the edge of a cliff. Morally, financially.. you name it. That's not a mistake. How did we get there? The most wealthy and powerful people being controlled by a blackmail operation is one reason how. And if that makes you think of the Protocols, fine. I want the situation fixed. If that means I'll offend some people to get there, so be it. The Western world needs recovery.


Recovery from what? We do need to get direction again because we do not know what to do with our success after the end of the Cold War. Nobody expected the USSR to give up like that. As for the collapse of the "West" now, what exactly is collapsing and how are the Zionist directly responsible for that?

Trump? Many american presidents tried to fuck up the US but all failed. The institutions are very strong and enduring through out the centuries.
Brexit? It was unthinkable to even consider the EU back in the 60's, 70's, 80's.We went from the founding members to now. It is a success story that we have 28-1 right now instead of something else.
Moral decay? Degeneracy? Any other moralist argument that has been used over the centuries in every country in the world is not new. The difference is that we have already learned how to sort out these disagreements without war in most if not all Western countries.

I think we are good. We still live in the most prosperous countries in the world. Very few outside the West can tout the same level of well-being for its own people. Even more so that our well-being is not based on 1 resource, we are very robust.
#15026901
anasawad wrote:National socialism, which is a mixture of nationalism and socialism, is what we call fascism.

"National Socialism," or the general ideology of the NSDAP, is not socialist. The term "socialism" that the NSDAP was using was used to attract working class people into gaining support for them during the years of Wiemar.

The economics that the NSDAP promoted conserved the family institution, promoted private enterprise, and privatized large industries.

The economics that the NSDAP support is sort of reactionary to what capitalism is, except that it is in an industrial, or post industrialized infrastructure. It is like getting pre capitalism, and putting it in modern technological times.
#15026907
SSDR wrote:"National Socialism," or the general ideology of the NSDAP, is not socialist. The term "socialism" that the NSDAP was using was used to attract working class people into gaining support for them during the years of Wiemar.

The economics that the NSDAP promoted conserved the family institution, promoted private enterprise, and privatized large industries.

The economics that the NSDAP support is sort of reactionary to what capitalism is, except that it is in an industrial, or post industrialized infrastructure. It is like getting pre capitalism, and putting it in modern technological times.


Wow this is the first somewhat ok post I've ever seen you make. Kudos to you!
#15026937
SSDR wrote:"National Socialism," or the general ideology of the NSDAP, is not socialist. The term "socialism" that the NSDAP was using was used to attract working class people into gaining support for them during the years of Wiemar.

The economics that the NSDAP promoted conserved the family institution, promoted private enterprise, and privatized large industries.

The economics that the NSDAP support is sort of reactionary to what capitalism is, except that it is in an industrial, or post industrialized infrastructure. It is like getting pre capitalism, and putting it in modern technological times.


I didn't say it is.
Socialism is not fascism; That, however, doesn't change the fact we call national socialism (i.e the mixture of socialism and fascism wherein the economics of socialism is converted to an absolute unitarian political paradigm) .

And Baathism, i.e. Arab national socialism, is a fascist movement. A real fascist one.
#15027012
anasawad wrote:I didn't say it is.

You did not? :hmm:
The fact we call national socialism (i.e the mixture of socialism and fascism wherein the economics of socialism is converted to an absolute unitarian political paradigm).

You just said it is Again.

The NSDAP has no economic socialism. A nationalist and a socialist is NOT a NSDAP.
#15027015
SSDR wrote:"National Socialism," or the general ideology of the NSDAP, is not socialist. The term "socialism" that the NSDAP was using was used to attract working class people into gaining support for them during the years of Wiemar.

The economics that the NSDAP promoted conserved the family institution, promoted private enterprise, and privatized large industries.

The economics that the NSDAP support is sort of reactionary to what capitalism is, except that it is in an industrial, or post industrialized infrastructure. It is like getting pre capitalism, and putting it in modern technological times.


The Nazis didn't have to nationalize industry, because they made sure that industry served the Nazi state. Thus, the economy was effectively under their control (perhaps they realized that they were far too dumb to run companies themselves). That is a far cry from the free market economy.

The Nazis did introduce some welfare measures, but they changed the focus from the welfare of the individual the welfare of the nation.

Socialism is a broad term, but it is obviously tricky to include the National Socialists. However, I think that socialism by definition needs to have an internationalist outlook. Reducing socialism to the national level always bears the risk of developing fascist tendencies.
#15027016
Code Rood wrote:Supporting Zionist Israel means you support endless wars, the de-industrialization of the West,

That's a Cultural Marxist lie. People want to move to European ethnicity countries because they are superior. Most of those claim to come from war zones, are lying. And its the Palestinian lovers who want Europe to have open borders. So spare us the fake concern about immigration. The West has brought a huge amount of peace to the rest of the world. Before Columbus most of the rest of the world was one giant shit hole. The rest was primitive, barbarous and extremely violent. There was huge amounts of slavery in the civilised areas of the Americas, Africa, and Asia. It is Europeans who must take the credit for abolishing slavery. In the Cold War it was the West that upheld the flame of freedom and progress against the Communist darkness.

The overwhelming majority of the Middle East's Muslim problems are caused by the Muslims themselves. Gaza has a higher life expectancy than Egypt. Muslims are better off being ruled by Jews than by themselves. Jewish Israelis were happy to open their borders to Muslims and let Palestinian labour flood in. It was Muslim terror that forced Israel to close its borders and stop giving great job opportunities to West Bank and Gaza Muslims.

Zero sympathy for Palestinian Muslims!
Zero tolerance for Palestinian Muslim victim mongering!
#15027026
Atlantis wrote:Reducing socialism to the national level always bears the risk of developing fascist tendencies.

Socialism is an economic system that is used for society to gain real consciousness.

Economic socialism has no correlation with nationalism versus internationalism.

Fascism does not use socialist economics for society to gain real consciousness. Fascism lacks real consciousness, thus not being socialist.
#15027029
SSDR wrote: A nationalist and a socialist is NOT a NSDAP.

1- Fascism is not exclusive to the Nazis. There are fascists pretty much everywhere.
2- They're not on their own, but if you took certain elements of each and put them together, you get fascism.
That's why Fascism and similar ideologies is near the center on the political spectrum.
#15027030
@anasawad,

1. Correct. Not all fascists were Nazis.
2. Nationalism and socialism mixed together is nothing like fascism because socialism gains real consciousness, while fascism does not. Fascism is anti feminist. Fascism supports family. Fascism supports currency.
#15027054
Rich wrote:People want to move to European ethnicity countries because they are superior.


The main reason why people move to the West is because it's being encouraged by all kinds of organizations. It's also what the State of Israel funds, probably with US tax money.

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,734 ... 81,00.html

Rich wrote:Most of those claim to come from war zones, are lying.


True.

Rich wrote:And its the Palestinian lovers who want Europe to have open borders.


Unfortunately it isn't just people on the left. The right wants cheap labour, and Jewish fanatics want waves of immigrants to come to the West in order to cause aliyah.

Rich wrote:The West has brought a huge amount of peace to the rest of the world.


Unfortunately I'm not seeing it today. Our reputation is being destroyed because of things like Zionism. The West will be better off without the insane levels of Zionist influence.

Rich wrote:The overwhelming majority of the Middle East's Muslim problems are caused by the Muslims themselves.


Okay. So the last thing we need is to get involved like we've been for decades now. Let's focus on our own world. We have enough problems already. But unfortunately that's not what lobbyists, special interest groups and Israeli dual citizens want. They want us to clap for the embassy move. They want us to make war with Iran. They want us to do all of that, while pretty much nothing gets done at home. In fact, things seem to get worse and worse.
#15029086
Code Rood wrote:Supporting Zionist Israel means you support endless wars, the de-industrialization of the West, mass-immigration towards the West, blackmail operations and many other bad things. So I will go for no.


1. A moderate war is sometimes necessary to stir up social inequality a bit, though don't get me wrong - I agree that it doesn't necessarily move the balance in our favour.

2. It depends on what your definition on "de-industrialisation of the West" is. Besides, I believe this is a much broader process than small groups like Zionist can control. Give evidence to prove your point please.

3. I also disagree with mass migration to the West. Instead it should be the West (re-)conquering parts of the world where the people cannot govern themselves properly, starting with China.

4. I think exaggerating the influence of Zionism, or blaming many bad things happening around the world on Zionism without proper proof, in order to justify your opposition, is -- in effect -- anti-Semitism.
#15029929
I support the right of the nation of Israel. However, as far as their relations with the United States are concerned:

1. I don't think they should be responsible for completing R&D on advanced military applications for the US government as this could compromise national security.

2. I believe that the amount of aid provided to this country is excessive in that their citizens currently enjoy programs that people in the United States do not (socialized medicine).

3. I do not support fighting Israel's wars for them. If they wish to see a war in Iran they should fight it themselves.
#15029970
Palmyrene wrote:I'm just interested because I'm not sure anyone other than ZN and Hindsite does.


What do you mean by support? The Israeli-Palestinian conflict isn’t a football match where you pick sides.

I could tell you what I think the solution should be though.
#15029973
Aexodus wrote:What do you mean by support? The Israeli-Palestinian conflict isn’t a football match where you pick sides.


As in "unconditionally support the actions of Israel no matter what they do".

I could tell you what I think the solution should be though.


Yup, no states. Only an anarchist society.
#15030011
Palmyrene wrote:As in "unconditionally support the actions of Israel no matter what they do".


Ah. Then no. I’m not Israeli and I’ve no horse in the race either. I’ll call defend them of call them out where I see fit.

Yup, no states. Only an anarchist society.


Wtf no lol.
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