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#15026376
Pants-of-dog wrote:And this demonising (aka racism and anti-immigrant sentiment) helps the elites keep the local working class from organising with the immigrant workers.

It's actually the language barrier and illegal status that create the division. Incidentally, Joe Biden came out against enforcing the law against US companies.

Pants-of-dog wrote:And why would the elites spend money on importing people if the immigrants are willing to come themselves?

NGOs don't fund themselves. Neither do human traffickers.

Red_Army wrote:I'm down to watch some dumb libshit movie about hunting Trump fans if its cool.

Me too. I won't be surprised to see a shooting at a movie theater though.
#15026967
I liked Get Out. They needed to make a 'I am a redneck and Proud" movie. because the rednecks are upset in America. They are being replaced by cheap brown labor from South of the Border. because the white kids on drugs and smoking pot all day are willing to do the restaurant work, the field work, the hotel cleaning work and big hospital laundry work, and Tyson chicken processing plant work, etc. They are lining up for those jobs because in America?The white folks are willing to do them Mexicans, Salvadorans, Hondurans, etc type of work.

They are the willing army of Americana white folks who are dying to work the hard labor those Mexies are working. Yeah!

Whatever. I worked with immigrants for years. The "Real" Americans are on drugs, are lazy and want work that pays well. They won't fil those positions. It will crash the American economy.

But they want to keep thinking that in America, they are true working class folks sweating it out like in the olden days.

Son unos debiles. Weaklings with the work load problem. That is the truth. Latin America is used to no welfare, oppressive elites, and hard work with no recourse. They come here and they kick the lazy American white folks asses in the work hard department....but hey? Where is the WHITE Working Class? In trailer parks, and in stereotypes...but they don't want Mexicans taking their jobs away.....they won't confront the American bankers. Those guys are INNOCENT of all wrong doing.

Lol.
#15027533
Pants-of-dog wrote:Because your claim is vague.

“Somewhere in the world, someone is manipulating immigration in order to replace some other group.”

So I would like a specific example.


Of course, you have to understand this in the same terms that you understand something like "white privilege" or "exploitation of the third world."

There is no document somewhere or instance where you can find a group of wealthy or privileged people saying:

"We are going to give special privileges only to white people," nor is there any specific place you can really find a bunch of wealthy people saying "we plan on exploiting the labor of the working class for our own profit and we are going to really cheat them out of everything that they have -- the whole system is designed for that."

Just as such: there will not be any examples where we find a group of globalists specifically stating that they desire to replace white people with foreigners in their own countries.

However, the idea is talked about, and looked at fondly in some circles -- the UN literally wrote a report still hosted on their website exploring the concept of "replacement migration" [1]. Wikipedia also has a page dedicated to it [2].

There's also plenty out there concerning things like wage depression -- for instance:

When the supply of workers goes up, the price that firms have to pay to hire workers goes down. Wage trends over the past half-century suggest that a 10 percent increase in the number of workers with a particular set of skills probably lowers the wage of that group by at least 3 percent.

...

Both low- and high-skilled natives are affected by the influx of immigrants. But because a disproportionate percentage of immigrants have few skills, it is low-skilled American workers, including many blacks and Hispanics, who have suffered most from this wage dip. The monetary loss is sizable. The typical high school dropout earns about $25,000 annually. According to census data, immigrants admitted in the past two decades lacking a high school diploma have increased the size of the low-skilled workforce by roughly 25 percent. As a result, the earnings of this particularly vulnerable group dropped by between $800 and $1,500 each year.[3]


Which is enough right there for you to see the motivation for major corporations and the wealthy to increase immigration: it depresses the wages that they pay to workers and maximizes their profits, which can clearly explain why the elites in America, while talking harsh on illegal immigration, have tolerated it for decades, and which also shows why they pushed for increases to legal immigration.

Once they got a taste of the wage depression from that sweet dual income family system, they were desperate to increase the work pool even more to maximize the general profits overall.

So, we have a motive (profit), culprits (the wealthy elites), and the result (encouraging the replacement of the working & middle classes of wealthy states with immigrants that have lower demands and whose mere presence in large enough numbers decreases wages).

We could also go into the idea that certain politicians see it as a means of securing long-term gains for their political parties, and how it can be seen as a demographic war against the resistance to the left.

[1] UN Replacement Migration Report
[2] Wikipedia
[3] Politico Article
#15027614
Verv wrote:However, the idea is talked about, and looked at fondly in some circles -- the UN literally wrote a report still hosted on their website exploring the concept of "replacement migration" [1]. Wikipedia also has a page dedicated to it [2].


Please quote the relevant text that supports that this is something that is happening now.

Also, please note that you guys cannot even give an example of where this is supposedly happening.
#15027648
Tainari88 wrote:
Americana white folks

The "Real" Americans are on drugs, are lazy


I don't really care if you call white Americans lazy drug addicts but the hypocrisy here is off the charts. :lol:
#15027654
Sivad wrote:I don't really care if you call white Americans lazy drug addicts but the hypocrisy here is off the charts. :lol:


Sivad, I don't know why you feel that everything is about problems with people who are not white. I have no idea why you think it is a universal asshole of humanity deal with you. You should start thinking about positive stuff and stop downing everything.

It is not doing you any good darling. Hypocrisy? Lol. Do you know how many times I have had some racist fools make drug dealer comments to my face because of my ethnic background. I hate damn drug dealing, I hate drug consumption in general. I never have smoked pot or cigarettes or gotten drunk once, and I even get on strict diets to make sure I am not overloading on any sugar, meat, fat or salt or anything bad for myself. Yet I got these assholes as you put it, thinking I am into drug dealing because they believe in stupid stereotypes. I hate that.

Are you going to be part of that crowd thinking I am Puerto Rican therefore I am a drug dealer with no formal education? Tell me if you believe that about me? So I can stop talking to you Sivad. I don't waste my time on racist white kids with problems. I don't.
#15027657
The hypocrisy is that you've repeatedly accused me of racism and lectured me about how cultures can't be criticized in general because they're too complex and then you go and call white Americana a culture of lazy drug addicts.
#15027674
Verv wrote:So, we have a motive (profit), culprits (the wealthy elites), and the result (encouraging the replacement of the working & middle classes of wealthy states with immigrants that have lower demands and whose mere presence in large enough numbers decreases wages).

We could also go into the idea that certain politicians see it as a means of securing long-term gains for their political parties, and how it can be seen as a demographic war against the resistance to the left.


I think a big part of it too is that now that the corporate conglomerates have been thoroughly globalized the party of Davos doesn't want functional nation states with strong healthy institutions so the globalist elites are importing people from dysfunctional cultures with broken institutions to erode developed democracies from within to get rid of one of the last remaining obstacles to corporate globalist domination.

The Davos crowd figures that they've been able to dominate the people of the global south so successfullly that flooding the developed world with them will make it that much easier to dominate the US and Western Europe.

Anyone who thinks any of this open borders shit is about humanitarianism and justice is a stupid dink who doesn't know what planet they're living on.
#15027692
@Sivad

Please provide a specific example of your argument concerning how the wealthy elites are importing people.

Also, please explain how these rich people manage to import people without their consent. Or are people from the developing world simply too stupid to know they are being imported?
#15027730
Pants-of-dog wrote:@Sivad

Please provide a specific example of your argument concerning how the wealthy elites are importing people.

Also, please explain how these rich people manage to import people without their consent. Or are people from the developing world simply too stupid to know they are being imported?


Oh, so the retort now involves nitpicking the use of the word import? :lol:

So how about we just keep describing it as replacing us with them.
#15027741
“Ireland constantly sends her own surplus to the English labor market, and thus forces down wages and lowers the material and moral position of the English working class. It is the secret by which the capitalist class maintains its power.” - Karl Marx
#15027797
Verv wrote:Oh, so the retort now involves nitpicking the use of the word import? :lol:

So how about we just keep describing it as replacing us with them.


Either way you describe it, you are ignoring the agency of the migrant and assuming the migrant is a brainless puppet of the elite.

And you guys have still failed to even mention a country where this is supposed rp be happening.
#15027808
Sivad wrote:“Ireland constantly sends her own surplus to the English labor market, and thus forces down wages and lowers the material and moral position of the English working class. It is the secret by which the capitalist class maintains its power.” - Karl Marx


That is a beautiful quotation. Really excellent. I gotta save it.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Either way you describe it, you are ignoring the agency of the migrant and assuming the migrant is a brainless puppet of the elite.

And you guys have still failed to even mention a country where this is supposed rp be happening.


Where in the concept of replacement immigration is the migrant perceived as being a brainless puppet? I haven't stated that. Why have you come to the conclusion that I would believe that?

Are you suggesting that if both parties aren't doing it with the exact same motivation, then it doesn't exist as a phenomena?

How could you ever believe in something like "white privilege" if this was your criteria?

Your criticisms are grounded in less than nothing.
#15027812
Verv wrote:Where in the concept of replacement immigration is the migrant perceived as being a brainless puppet? I haven't stated that. Why have you come to the conclusion that I would believe that?


The fact that you are unable to see how your argument implies that migrants are mere brainless pawns of the elite, is neither here nor there.

Are you suggesting that if both parties aren't doing it with the exact same motivation, then it doesn't exist as a phenomena?


Which are the two parties that you are discussing?

The migrant and the elite?

And you still have failed to mention an actual example.
#15027817
Verv wrote:Where in the concept of replacement immigration is the migrant perceived as being a brainless puppet? I haven't stated that.


It doesn't follow from anything in this thread, when these people can't come up with an honest intelligent criticism they just cry racism and hope that cows everyone into shutting up.
#15027820
Pants-of-dog wrote:The fact that you are unable to see how your argument implies that migrants are mere brainless pawns of the elite, is neither here nor there.


Oh, wait, so my inability to see how my argument implies migrants are mere brainless pawns of the elite is actually irrelevant? I thought you believe it is super relevant to this! At least you did in the last post.

... Why would I imply these people are brainless pawns? They clearly get something out of this. They get to live in a country with much higher living standards and have an improved life! What about the argument requires or implies that third world immigrants are pawns?

Not a very well thought out retort, POD.


Which are the two parties that you are discussing?

The migrant and the elite?

And you still have failed to mention an actual example.


It's happening all over Western Europe & the US. Low birth rates have resulted in the push for migration to replace the declining population, and even higher rates of immigration are being imposed to further drive down wages throughout the world.

If you reallly want a specific example and think you can actually expand the circle of argument, why not just use the US & Mexico, and consider the immigration patterns, both legal and illegal, as replacement immigration. But remember this is more about the country taking the immigrants, and the immigration does not have to come from any specific country.

You're trying to juggle a lot of balls here but you do not have the basics of the argument even down. Slow down a bit & breath.
#15027850
The U.S. foreign-born population reached a record 44.4 million in 2017. Since 1965, when U.S. immigration laws replaced a national quota system, the number of immigrants living in the U.S. has more than quadrupled. Immigrants today account for 13.6% of the U.S. population, nearly triple the share (4.7%) in 1970.

Mexico is the top origin country of the U.S. immigrant population. In 2017, 11.2 million immigrants living in the U.S. were from there, accounting for 25% of all U.S. immigrants. The next largest origin groups were those from China (6%), India (6%), the Philippines (5%) and El Salvador (3%).

By region of birth, immigrants from South and East Asia combined accounted for 27% of all immigrants, close to the share of immigrants from Mexico (25%). Other regions make up smaller shares: Europe/Canada (13%), the Caribbean (10%), Central America (8%), South America (7%), the Middle East (4%) and sub-Saharan Africa (4%).

More than 1 million immigrants arrive in the U.S. each year. In 2017, the top country of origin for new immigrants coming into the U.S. was India, with 126,000 people, followed by Mexico (124,000), China (121,000) and Cuba (41,000).

Looking forward, immigrants and their descendants are projected to account for 88% of U.S. population growth through 2065, assuming current immigration trends continue.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... mmigrants/


That's a tectonic shift in demographics and the numbers from pew are extremely conservative.


Debating Immigration Reform: Making the Case for Low and Slow

Amy Wax, J.D., is the Robert Mundheim Professor of Law at the University of Pennsylvania Law School. She has published widely in law reviews and journals of opinion. She is the author of Race, Wrongs, and Remedies
#15027858
@Sivad all this talk and speeches about immigration and low and slow. The Capitalists decide if they want more immigrants and what types. It doesn't matter what kind of presidency is in charge it is about labor and what the costs are over time.

IMHO, the European migration has been over since WWII. The Europeans are not coming here anymore. New immigrants are from India, China, Mexico and Cuba and other nations. Mostly not from Europe.

I don't care that the demographics change.

I want rapacious bankers and capitalism to be dealt with properly.

Most of the world is not European stock. SO? I don't care. Human beings are not going extinct. That should be more of a concern, preventing human extinction with climate problems and pollutions and lack of clean water and land and air and fights over basics like water. Not about ÓMG the white folks are not the majority in the USA.

This has been a free for all nation cobbled together by a bunch of different peoples for centuries. Why worry about whiteness that is false anyway?

Move on to economic issues. About wages and workers.

Internationalism is what I want. Not some people worried about some foreign people with lack of patriotism. I find all that crap Sivad.

I should be worried about lack of patriotism and identity loss not you.

And I don't worry myself about it.

Fears of who and what?

If you want working people to unite? Forget about if they are European and going low and slow. The theme should be, únite for better wages all over the world and fight for working rights and education and equal human rights for the entire planet.

If you up the conditions fort the Mexican people they have no motivation for leavng their homeland. Same for everyone. But if the answer is depressing wages in other nations to the point of not being able to stay in your own nation and having to force them out? Guess where they will go? Where the jobs are. No mystery there.

That musical chair problem of immigration is not just the USA. It is many many nations.

Discuss stability without these worries about patriotism and bullshit. It just means some fearful people who think their society is better than others are worried about losing power.

It won't create any real solidarity. Only divisions.
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