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#15027860
Tainari88 wrote:
I don't care that the demographics change.

I want rapacious bankers and capitalism to be dealt with properly.



That's my primary objective as well and I only care about demographics to the extent that they make that objective more or less likely. I have zero confidence that a massive influx of culturally backward people is gonna help with that, mass immigration is totally counterproductive to achieving that objective.
#15027865
Outside of the U.S. and Europe, the issue of immigration can be even more dogmatic. The Bolivian socialist leader Evo Morales refused to receive Syrian refugees even at worst moment of the Syria crisis. This was shocking because of the avowed internationalist solidarity that the Bolivian government has espoused, and because they’re among the most far-left regimes on the region. In Peru, Justiniano Apaza, a congressman of the left-wing Broad Front called to restrict the immigration of Venezuelans escaping the political and economical crisis of their country because they work for lower wages than Peruvians. In Chile, the former socialist president Michelle Bachelet supported a law that human rights organizations questioned. They argued it restricted the entry of foreigners in a way that was hypocritical because after the coup d’etat in 1973, many Chileans become refugees all over the world.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/07/05 ... migration/
#15027866
@Sivad

Yes, we Latinos sure are culturally backward.

Now, do you guys have any evidence that this “mass migration” is the product of the manipulation of a secret cabal?

As far as I can tell, the people running the businesses that make money off migrants do not have to pay a red cent to get migrants to come. The migrants do that on their own. Because they see an opportunity to make more money and give their kids a better life.

As long as there is a significant gap in economic opportunities, there will be migration.

And again, if elites are pushing any agenda, they would push an agenda that benefits them.

A working class divided by racism is not a threat. So, racism and anti-immigrant sentiment is beneficial.

A “labour aristocracy” within the working class that identifies with their elites because of skin colour and refuses to identify with other working class people?

The elites do not care about demographics, or skin colour, or replacing anyone with anyone else.

They just want a large labour pool with no rights that is divided upon itself.
#15027873
Pants-of-dog wrote:They just want a large labour pool with no rights that is divided upon itself.


Which is exactly what mass immigration provides for them.
#15027879
Pants-of-dog wrote:@Sivad

Yes, we Latinos sure are culturally backward.

Now, do you guys have any evidence that this “mass migration” is the product of the manipulation of a secret cabal?


As I stated before, and as you have ignored but now suddenly bring up, it does not require a secret cabal or people even any amount of the people involved consciously plotting it.

Just as such, white privilege does not operate in thst way, yet people acknowledge its existence.

You obsess with this one point because portraying it as a silly conspiracy is the only recourse you have when the evidence is out in the open.

As far as I can tell, the people running the businesses that make money off migrants do not have to pay a red cent to get migrants to come. The migrants do that on their own. Because they see an opportunity to make more money and give their kids a better life.



....lol,uh huh.

As long as there is a significant gap in economic opportunities, there will be migration.


If it is allowed.

And again, if elites are pushing any agenda, they would push an agenda that benefits them.

A working class divided by racism is not a threat. So, racism and anti-immigrant sentiment is beneficial.

A “labour aristocracy” within the working class that identifies with their elites because of skin colour and refuses to identify with other working class people?

The elites do not care about demographics, or skin colour, or replacing anyone with anyone else.

They just want a large labour pool with no rights that is divided upon itself.


Here's where you go fully off the track.

They want to replace the middle class with high demands and high negotiation power with powerless people and drive down the overall labor costs and increase the pool of consumers.

They don't mind taxing the middle class and redistributing the wealth to the poor to increase their consumer base.
#15027880
Pants-of-dog wrote:
we Latinos



Is that like a sacred identity for you? I can't imagine giving a fuck about my racial or ethnic or cultural identity, it doesn't even factor in to my conception of who or what I am. Like I don't care about white people, I don't care what happens to white people as a group(in fact I'm pretty sure the whites are doomed on account of stupidity right along with the rest of this jackass species) or about individuals because they're white. I feel no need to defend white culture from bigotry, I have no affinity for anyone based on their whiteness, whiteness is almost like an alien concept to me. I can't imagine how it could possibly hold any meaning or relevance to my life, to who I am, or to anything I'm about. I just really don't get what people get out of their racial or ethnic or cultural identities? I have no tribe, my commitment is to the greater good and that's it. Those who share that commitment are my kind of people, but they're not like 'my people' because we have no commitment to each other, our only commitments are to that principle.
#15027882
Verv wrote:They want to replace the middle class with high demands and high negotiation power with powerless people and drive down the overall labor costs and increase the pool of consumers.


Like how do people not get this? If the fucking Koch brothers are pumping millions into open borders you'd think that would at least create some doubt about the utility of mass immigration to the left's overarching goals but they just mindlessly persist in undermining their own cause because racism or something?
#15027903
Sivad wrote:The U.S. foreign-born population reached a record 44.4 million in 2017. Since 1965, when U.S. immigration laws replaced a national quota system, the number of immigrants living in the U.S. has more than quadrupled. Immigrants today account for 13.6% of the U.S. population, nearly triple the share (4.7%) in 1970.

and your link also shows that this number is similar to that from about 1860 to 1920. You know this, because you edited out the last sentence of the paragraph you quoted, because it's inconvenient for your feelings: "However, today’s immigrant share remains below the record 14.8% share in 1890, when 9.2 million immigrants lived in the U.S.".

Immigration is traditional for the United States of America.
#15027956
Verv wrote:As I stated before, and as you have ignored but now suddenly bring up, it does not require a secret cabal or people even any amount of the people involved consciously plotting it.


That was the argument being made.

I am glad that we have now backed away from it and are now discussing more real things.

No one is claiming anymore that the elites are planning on replacing white people.

....lol,uh huh.


Do you think I am incorrect on this point?

If it is allowed.


Are you arguing that you can simply pass a law and the migrants will magically stop coming? Because illegal immigration does exist.

Here's where you go fully off the track.

They want to replace the middle class with high demands and high negotiation power with powerless people and drive down the overall labor costs and increase the pool of consumers.


And now we are back to your conspiracy theory that a shadowy cabal is trying to get rid of white people.

They don't mind taxing the middle class and redistributing the wealth to the poor to increase their consumer base.


Why would they do this? To weaken their own position? To give money away for no reason?

It is as if you are so focused on finding a way for you to be a victim of immigration that you ignore economic motives.

———————

@Sivad

If you are going to ignore your own argument to focus on your own racist claim, feel free.
#15028018
Sivad wrote:That's my primary objective as well and I only care about demographics to the extent that they make that objective more or less likely. I have zero confidence that a massive influx of culturally backward people is gonna help with that, mass immigration is totally counterproductive to achieving that objective.


Culturally backward people? Ah hell Sivad. You are what? What is your ethnic background?

Mexicans have one of the most beautiful, culturally rich cultures I have ever known. Why do you think I moved to Mexico?

No, you got told that Mexicans are inferior in some way and you believed it. I don't know why you do Sivad.

I am Puerto Rican and my parents were told they were culturally inferior in the 1950's and so on. Told they were a bunch of third world monkeys without a history and without a culture worth preserving. Blacks were told that too.

Do you really think that is true Sivad?

What did Mexican civilization give to the world? And to the USA? This:

https://theculturetrip.com/north-americ ... the-world/

The scientific contributions are very long and extensive Sivad.

All human cultures bring something to the table.

You think Mexicans are backward? Do you speak either an indian language spoken in Mexico or Mexican Spanish fluently Sivad? Yes or no?

Then how do you know for sure they are backwards and inferior? Because they are poor? Were your immigrant white European ancestors from English royalty? Or were they poor? Is that how you judge a culture? How much money the people have in the bank?

If you think money is how one should judge a nation? And its cultural background? The USA was founded by a bunch of poor low class people.

Think about that.
#15028054
It's funny that I'm being called a racist by two people that are super into their own racial identities. Racial identitarianism is backwards in itself but it's that inability to critically detach from the arbitrary social identities we're born into that really inhibits our socio-cultural evolution.
#15028065
Prosthetic Conscience wrote:and your link also shows that this number is similar to that from about 1860 to 1920. You know this, because you edited out the last sentence of the paragraph you quoted, because it's inconvenient for your feelings: "However, today’s immigrant share remains below the record 14.8% share in 1890, when 9.2 million immigrants lived in the U.S."


:knife: I didn't edit anything out, I just didn't include it because it's an irrelevant piece of propaganda pew threw in to help sell mass immigration to the lames. The immigration policies from over a century ago when the country was far less populated and far less developed have zero relevance to modern US society.

Immigration is traditional for the United States of America.


So is anti-immigration, the native working class has always opposed the ruling class tradition of waging class warfare by importing desperate starving peasants by the boatload.
#15028072
@Sivad

You give capitalists too much credit.

They did not need to engineer a complicated mechanism in order to create mass migration.

They just needed to be imperialists, and one of the unintended consequences of that imperialism was high amounts of migration from the colonies to the colonising nation. And they they simply took advantage of said unintended consequence.

It has nothing to do with, for example, white genocide.
#15028073
Verv wrote:They want to replace the middle class with high demands and high negotiation power with powerless people and drive down the overall labor costs and increase the pool of consumers.


It's not just about labor costs though, it's about undermining the political and social power of the middle class. The middle class and the oligarchy are natural enemies, the middle class prevents the oligarchy from achieving total domination so it's not surprising the oligarchs would target the middle class for destruction through deindustrialization, financialization, and mass immigration.
#15028080
Pants-of-dog wrote:@Sivad

You give capitalists too much credit.

They did not need to engineer a complicated mechanism in order to create mass migration.

They just needed to be imperialists, and one of the unintended consequences of that imperialism was high amounts of migration from the colonies to the colonising nation. And they they simply took advantage of said unintended consequence.


I just read an article on the Alliance for Prosperity and it's funny how all the indigenous rights activists and civil society organizations in the Northern Triangle knew exactly how it was going to play out before it was even implemented but you think the people with the billion dollar think tanks and the high powered policy wonks don't have any idea about how their policies are going to affect issues like immigration? Not only do they know in granular detail exactly what effects those policies will have, they strategically design the policies to produce those effects.
#15028113
Prosthetic Conscience wrote:explain what your claim of immigration for political advantage has to do with "white genocide" or a movie of the old plot of rich people hunting humans.


I almost forgot this one.

If you can't figure out why an association would be made between a movie about ruling class elites murdering white deplorables and the systematic destruction of white deplorables as a class then you just lack all capacity for metaphorical thought. It's barely even a metaphor, they could just title that movie white genocide, that's how in-your-face blatant the ethno-class hostility is.
#15028125
Pants-of-dog wrote:@Sivad

The middle class almost universally supports the status quo.

It would be counterproductive for the people who run the world to undermine their own support.


That would only truly be the case in a truly democratic society or a republic or a monarchy with a close relationship with the middle class, where their interests and goals are mutual.

It can quickly cease to be the case.
#15028127
Sivad wrote:Is that like a sacred identity for you? I can't imagine giving a fuck about my racial or ethnic or cultural identity, it doesn't even factor in to my conception of who or what I am. Like I don't care about white people, I don't care what happens to white people as a group(in fact I'm pretty sure the whites are doomed on account of stupidity right along with the rest of this jackass species) or about individuals because they're white. I feel no need to defend white culture from bigotry, I have no affinity for anyone based on their whiteness, whiteness is almost like an alien concept to me. I can't imagine how it could possibly hold any meaning or relevance to my life, to who I am, or to anything I'm about. I just really don't get what people get out of their racial or ethnic or cultural identities? I have no tribe, my commitment is to the greater good and that's it. Those who share that commitment are my kind of people, but they're not like 'my people' because we have no commitment to each other, our only commitments are to that principle.


The identity that we have and our relationship to it is hard to describe.

Perhaps science does not even yet know how to describe it as the debates concerning biological determinism, if nature versus nurture, have not yet settled. But generally speaking, our raw talents and impulse control and dispositions seem to be heritable and often are.

It is also true that our cultures come from our people and completely define our framework in a social and even ideological sense, and very few people break free from these contexts even marginally.

It makes sense to love your people because you are a manifestation of your people and an extension of their identity whether you like it or not. Of course, you also have your own identity, but our selfish, personal identities are generally irrelevant to others and private.
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