Vast protest in Hong Kong against extradition law - Page 26 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15028024
Hey, @Patrickov

Just to give it a shot, i opened the full article that the above poster provided. Do you believe any of this:

Hong Kong is one of the most extreme examples of big finance, neoliberal capitalism in the world. As a result, many people in Hong Kong are suffering from great economic insecurity in a city with 93 billionaires, second-most of any city.

Hong Kong is suffering the effects of being colonized by Britain for more than 150 years following the Opium Wars. The British put in place a capitalist economic system and Hong Kong has had no history of self-rule. When Britain left, it negotiated an agreement that prevents China from changing Hong Kong’s political and economic systems for 50 years by making Hong Kong a Special Administrative Region (SAR).

China cannot solve the suffering of the people of Hong Kong. This “One Country, Two Systems” approach means the extreme capitalism of Hong Kong exists alongside, but separate from, China’s socialized system. Hong Kong has an unusual political system. For example, half the seats in the legislature are required to represent business interests meaning corporate interests vote on legislation.

Hong Kong is a center for big finance and also a center of financial crimes. Between 2013 and 2017, the number of suspicious transactions reported to law enforcement agencies rocketed from 32,907 to 92,115. There has been a small number of prosecutions, which dropped from a high of 167 in 2014 to 103 in 2017. Convictions dropped to only one person sentenced to more than six years behind bars in 2017.

The problem is neither the extradition bill that was used to ignite protests nor China, the problems are Hong Kong’s economy and governance.


I have highlighted some of the parts. I am kinda interesting, what would happen to a person who would stand and say something like this infront of the protesters? Would there be any support for this opinion within Hong Kong?
#15028098
Actually there is something additional interesting. It reminds me of a certain posting style.

Image

Translation:

A. Refrain from positively reporting any kind of protests for democracy or freedom by Hong Kong citizens, fully utilize the weight of the voice from the government, take the initiative to lead the public opinion by defining the protests as the following:

Patriotism against Hong Kong Independence

Peace against violence

Law against Turmoil(Riot)

B. Adequately report demands for people's livelihood, but not too much, it should not be the main focal point. It is allowed to change the focus from politics to economy, but most importantly is to report the protests as unlawful criminal activity.

C. Downplay the amount of people who participated in the protest as well as the amount of support, exaggerate the amount of support for the government and the police, characterise the people as followed:

People who did not came out to protest are the silent majority and they support the police and government.

People who participated in the protests and marches are igonorant fools who were provoked and incited by the western forces.

People who sieged government buildings and stood up against police are terrorists.

D. In text based or video based news reports, magnify the following points:

Magnify the people who waved flags of Hong Kong independence or flags of western countries, to show that the protesters teamed up with western enemies to achieve independence, avoid showing slogans about democracy or freedom.

Due to the high impact to the international scene, we can expect western media to interview politicians and they are expected to support the protesters. We love these kind of statements because that can show the western enemies are behind to stage chaos.

Magnify reports of protesters sieging government buildings

Magnify reports of protesters drawing grafitti on Chinese flags and emblems or any other government symbols.

Magnify reports of protesters' violence agaisnt the police. If any police got injured, strongly report it

Due to the ever-escalating situation, we can expect the protests to further impact the people's livelihood. We must focus on the citizens who complained, especially the foreigners who expressed their complaints.

E. DO NOT report people who express understanding or even support for the protesters.

F. Delete and censor all kinds of media that shows police brutality immediately, they absolutely must not be spread on wechat, weibo or any other social media.

G. Delete and censor all kinds of media that shows the protesters apologizing to the tourists stuck in the airport, they must be deleted as urgently as possible and must not be spread.

H. Using the economic attractiveness of China, convince business person and celebrities to voice out their support for the government and the police force.

I. Highly regulate and censor traditional news media and intensify censorship on social media platforms, strongly manipulate the public opinion.
#15028102
Sorry for the double post, but this just made my day. Twitter and facebook suspended some of the accounts that were used by the Chinese to spread propaganda.(Bots) Guess whos previous messages are not loading up in certain places and also guess what they are saying on twitter? :excited:

Here for example: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=176665&start=140
#15028129
skinster wrote:Interesting discussion with a bunch of background on this subject. Starts at 15:15


Problem is this is discussed from a standpoint of economic exploitation. That is not remotely important to the people of Hong Kong right now. They live decently well. In ideal world economic exploitation should be removed or at least reduced to almost 0 in any shape or form. But right now what is more important to them is the fact that they are being culturally destroyed as people. Chinese mainland promised not to do it but in reality attempting a cultural genocide and full assimilation of the people of Hong Kong. I don't understand how you can be for this while at the same time being against imperialism and now shifting it to some kind of weird economic explotation theory. (Which can loosely be applied to Hong Kong and even more so to China itself)
#15028146
skinster wrote:It doesn't sound to me as though you listened to the discussion.

The people of Hong Kong don't have the exact same interests like you and others suggest; there are HK residents who are pro China and anti the protests too.


Yes, that is so. They are far outnumbered though. The majority are Cantonese who are against what is going on while the mainlanders are in the minority. The problem is that the Cantonese have no problem with the mainlanders as long as they don't try to forcefully assimilate them but the mainlanders wants to forcefully assimilate them.

It is hard to say but around 20% to 80% is the balance of power in Hong Kong right now in favour of Cantonese. Again, this is rough statistic that i take from below data. May be its 30 to 70... May be its 15 to 85...

Here is some statistics:

Image

Image
#15028153
I think some of you are complicating matters.

If there really are so many prople supporting China down here, the sheer number of participants wanting to go to the pro-China rally last Saturday would have jammed the metro. It didn't happen.

In contrast, we, righteous anti-China world citizens, did jam the metro on 3 lines.

What skinster "shared" about "500k in support of police / China" has been widely regarded as a lie. Skinster keeps sharing this as if they are geniune, therefore he is a liar.
#15028154
JohnRawls wrote:The problem is that the Cantonese have no problem with the mainlanders as long as they don't try to forcefully assimilate them but the mainlanders wants to forcefully assimilate them.


I thought these protests were about an extradition treaty - that was pushed for by the mother of the woman killed by the guy who murdered his girlfriend, cut her to pieces and then fled to Hong Kong - that ended up being cancelled.

If Chinese people outside of Hong Kong were trying to force the people of Hong Kong to "assimilate", surely they'd not have cut up the extradition treaty and maybe the cops/military would be shooting to death some of the protesters, like what happens in Gaza, Kashmir and France at the moment.
#15028156
JohnRawls wrote:Hey, @Patrickov

Just to give it a shot, i opened the full article that the above poster provided. Do you believe any of this:



I have highlighted some of the parts. I am kinda interesting, what would happen to a person who would stand and say something like this infront of the protesters? Would there be any support for this opinion within Hong Kong?


Those points you hightlighted are partially factual, but some of them were more significant 10 years ago than now.

1. China now attempts to "control" the most wealthy ones. But if you say economic instability people regard that China is the one who is unstable. At least my parents deduced from reports that Chinese economy will collapse if the US sanctions them.

2. According to some claims, the British didn't give us democracy at least partly out of threats of the CCP. For all the faults the British made, they should be credited for the freedom anc justice we enjoyed for their final 25 years of presence, as well as general prosperity for about a century. I don't think Sun Yat-sen was overflattering the British when he said "why China couldn't make a Hong Kong in its 4000 years of existence?"

3. Both "China cannot solve the suffering of the people of Hong Kong" and "the problems are Hong Kong’s economy and governance" are facts, but the article ignores the fact that China is eager to exert their corrupt and oppressive control on Hong Kong. It is their agenda that caused these two facts, not anything else.
#15028189
skinster wrote:I thought these protests were about an extradition treaty - that was pushed for by the mother of the woman killed by the guy who murdered his girlfriend, cut her to pieces and then fled to Hong Kong - that ended up being cancelled.

If Chinese people outside of Hong Kong were trying to force the people of Hong Kong to "assimilate", surely they'd not have cut up the extradition treaty and maybe the cops/military would be shooting to death some of the protesters, like what happens in Gaza, Kashmir and France at the moment.


Many, inlcluding the victim's father, said that one-off extradition (without making a controversial law) is ok. Carrie Lam didn't listen.
#15028207
Patrickov wrote:Many, inlcluding the victim's father, said that one-off extradition (without making a controversial law) is ok. Carrie Lam didn't listen.


I think any extradition would set a bad precedent though. China no doubt would push for more to happen. You did it once, why not do it again? And again? And again?

https://www.ft.com/content/8591dcea-c30 ... 6ca66511c9



This news is also extremely disturbing. Of cause the UK has the right to demand their own embassy employees back safely and to know his exact whereabouts but China will call this "foreign meddling" of cause. He has the old pre-1997 HK passport too.

The UK has the right to demand to know where it's employee is and to demand he be returned safely.
#15028241
Hong Kong already has extradition treaties with multiple countries and has no problem extraditing people to places with rule of law and robust courts. The protesters fear being extradited to a Kafkaesque nightmare like mainland China.

skinster wrote:I thought these protests were about an extradition treaty

Why does anybody engage skinster? She clearly hasn't learnt anything from the previous 25 pages of discussion and can't be bothered finding out what the protesters' demands are.
Last edited by AFAIK on 21 Aug 2019 05:07, edited 1 time in total.
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