Vast protest in Hong Kong against extradition law - Page 28 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15028914
colliric wrote:China is not too unclean though. Central Beijing is nice and clean, your cities CBDs aren't too bad. Very little cars in the central spots. Except for the air of cause (terrible air quality, and weirds smells everywhere in Shanghai especially). Lucky there were Potty toilets in all the places I saw. Lucky.


First tier cities like Shanghai are relatively clean, but the further you go out, there is a corresponding increase in lack of cleanliness. Shanghai has a lot of sewers running through the gutters, so most streets in the massive downtown districts often smell strongly of feces because of it. I usually tell people Shanghai is a mixture of a New York feel and Tijuana smell.

AFAIK wrote:I was in China 12 years ago and encountered plenty of pushing, people driving straight through you, etc. The toilets on the overnight trains were an experience. People would miss the squat toilet and just leave their waste there. No consideration for others. Apparently their tourists are so bad they are provided their own facilities in some places.


Mainland Chinese tourists abroad indeed have a well known and well deserved notoriety. PR China even has a bureau for tourism to try and educate people going abroad on basic manners so they don’t embarrass their country. In the last 30-40 years as China has reformed and developed its economy, there are now tens of millions of middle class and wealthy Chinese, most of whom were raised by parents who lacked any sort of adequate education. China is concerned about its image when their citizens, for example, shove people back into the subway in Japan.

In China itself, I should add that I’ve seen mothers and grandmothers letting their kids, some of whom seemed about 8-9, to completely drop their pants and piss and shit on the sidewalk in front of people. I’ve seen it happen on the subway, in front of a cafe with people sitting outside enjoying coffee, at a bus stop, and in line for the Peter Pan ride at Shanghai Disneyland.
#15028915
Bulaba Jones wrote:First tier cities like Shanghai are relatively clean, but the further you go out, there is a corresponding increase in lack of cleanliness. Shanghai has a lot of sewers running through the gutters, so most streets in the massive downtown districts often smell strongly of feces because of it. I usually tell people Shanghai is a mixture of a New York feel and Tijuana smell.


I've only been to Beijing and can echo that my impression was that central Beijing was clean and modern. With respect to Shanghai is it because they have an open sewer plan? Lots of developing countries tend to use open sewers because it's cheaper. The only issue is, don't misstep!
#15028918
The sewers aren’t open and you can’t trip into them, but the sidewalks have sewer lines very close to the surface with a lot of gutters that allow them to reek. You’ll often get a strong whiff of poop throughout Shanghai. Then again, a lot of old people let their grandkids shit on the sidewalks (it’s a common occurrence) so that doesn’t help either.
#15028935
skinster wrote:^ :lol: at the relentless whining. Why you think I want your respect is beyond me, but thanks for the :lol:



The answer is simple. News about HK protests has spread far and wide in China. This is something that Chinese government never wanted to happen in the first place but were not able to contain. On one side the mainlanders sympathise with HK now because of many reasons(since they have their own protest concerns nowadays but just can't protest) but also are pushed away by violence(which is exagerated by the Chinese propaganda). Something like that. Anyways, this is more than the HK protesters could hope for when they were starting this. As time goes on, it will continue to spread and the people in the mainland will also start asking more and more questions. :D Moral victory for Hong Kong for now. (Well, not related to HK)
#15029023
Bulaba Jones wrote:The sewers aren’t open and you can’t trip into them, but the sidewalks have sewer lines very close to the surface with a lot of gutters that allow them to reek. You’ll often get a strong whiff of poop throughout Shanghai. Then again, a lot of old people let their grandkids shit on the sidewalks (it’s a common occurrence) so that doesn’t help either.


I'm surprised you still haven't mentioned the Bikes lol.

Discarded Hire Bikes litter the streets EVERYWHERE in China. A problem that could have easily been solved by a proper bike collection program, but that they obviously decided "fuck it, new bikes are cheaper here!".

Half the time I was stepping over a pile of Bikes to get where I wanted to go. Lol.

https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2018/ ... es/556268/

China's opinion.... "fuck the problem, what problem? Just buy more new ones".
#15029054
I visited a village in the mountains of Sichuan that used the river as their sewer. My guesthouse's toilet was a hole suspended above the river.

@skinster
What's the challenge to China's sovereignty that GG speaks of? And when he says only China has the right to use force on the streets of HK does he mean HK's police force should be closed and replaced by one under Beijing's demand? I don't think he understands what the 2 systems part of the equation means.
#15029056
I honestly have not experienced any of these things while in "tier 1" or 2 Chinese cities. Rental bikes are ubiquitous but not piled up as obstacles, no open sewage lines or smell of poop etc. Every place I have been too is pretty normal except smoggier than comparitive cities in other "developed" countries.
#15029064
colliric wrote:China's opinion.... "fuck the problem, what problem? Just buy more new ones".


This will be quite mild and comparable to the British. What China (or Russia) does is to, in addition to this, abduct / lock away / beat down / poison (admittedly Russia-exclusive) / "force suicide" on whoever rightfully reports the problem and urges the authorities to face it.
#15029065
AFAIK wrote:I visited a village in the mountains of Sichuan that used the river as their sewer. My guesthouse's toilet was a hole suspended above the river.


Admittedly there are a few isolated locations in Hong Kong which has this. As far as the sewage is not made of man-made toxic chemicals (a.k.a. it's just excrement), and the next pick-up facility downstream processes their water properly I am OK. Forcing our metropolitan way of life onto them can be pretty costly.

AFAIK wrote:What's the challenge to China's sovereignty that GG speaks of?


I think the better question is "what justify China's soveriegnty on Hong Kong when it is well-proven that they are not capable of exercising it properly?"

In Romance of Three Kingdoms, the author had Zhou Cang, a loyal subordinate of Guan Yu, convey the important message that "only the virtuous deserves sovreignty". For all the atrocities, cunningness and bigotry possessed by the West, I think they are still more virtuous than China.
#15029067
Patrickov wrote:In Romance of Three Kingdoms, the author had Zhou Cang, a loyal subordinate of Guan Yu, convey the important message that "only the virtuous deserves sovreignty". For all the atrocities, cunningness and bigotry possessed by the West, I think they are still more virtuous than China.


Is it true Sima Qian's Records Of The Grand Historian is still banned in China?

I use to read the legend of Jing Ke all the time. What a hero. The "tank man" of his day? Too bad his dagger missed.
#15029092
I had no idea George Galloway was a giant dildo. :eek: These "anti-imperialist" thought leaders are such a colossal disappointment. They have no problem with imperialism when the chicom gulagists are doing it, they have no problem at all with any of these totalitarian regimes bullying people. They're not anti-imperialists, they're pro-imperialism, they're just anti-US. :knife:
#15029094
Patrickov wrote: For all the atrocities, cunningness and bigotry possessed by the West, I think they are still more virtuous than China.


That's racist.
#15029123
Sivad wrote:I had no idea George Galloway was a giant dildo. :eek: These "anti-imperialist" thought leaders are such a colossal disappointment. They have no problem with imperialism when the chicom gulagists are doing it, they have no problem at all with any of these totalitarian regimes bullying people. They're not anti-imperialists, they're pro-imperialism, they're just anti-US. :knife:


This goes back to my earlier point about these type of people having no spine because they are not forthright with their true intentions/desires. If these people just came out and said "we hate the anything the US does or supports" rather than masquerade in false pretenses like "anti-imperialism" or "human rights", I would have far more respect for them.
#15029130
Enjoying the casual racism here but would be cool if some of you used this thread to report the ongoing events instead of that, or whining about me.

Perhaps people aren't as "civilized" or whatever in China because China was a very poor country not that long ago, and after lifting hundreds of millions of people out of poverty, perhaps they don't as yet really know how to act in a way that suits the expectations of westerners. Give them time. The descriptions of how they behave aren't uncommon from poor countries, you snobs.

AFAIK wrote:@skinster
What's the challenge to China's sovereignty that GG speaks of?


Perhaps that coming from the U.S.'s clear involvement with some of the protest organizers. :?:

And when he says only China has the right to use force on the streets of HK does he mean HK's police force should be closed and replaced by one under Beijing's demand? I don't think he understands what the 2 systems part of the equation means.


He might just mean that Hong Kong is China, since that's how the Chinese and history generally view it to be.
#15029148
skinster wrote:Perhaps that coming from the U.S.'s clear involvement with some of the protest organizers.

How is that a threat to China's sovereignty?

I've been to plenty of countries that are less developed than China where people queue and clean up after themselves.
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