Trump's Dumb Economics - Page 70 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15029068
jimjam wrote:we will see …… 600 or 700 billion in trade doesn't disappear without some ill effects. Plus ……. Donald seems eager to expand his war too much of the rest of the world. His NYC real estate developer M.O. of creating chaos may well result in the biggest depression ever. Prosperity is sooooo boring :lol: . Don't get me wrong Melvin, I applaud Donald's calling China out but his bull in the china closet methods are more like polka than chess. I think I have enough tangible assets to last me to the grave so WTF do I care. He certainly is entertaining.

Well, like you now admit, President Trump is a genius and entertaining too. We live in interesting times.
Praise the Lord.
User avatar
By Godstud
#15029077
Nowhere did jimjam say trump was a genius. Are you lacking in basic reading comprehension, @Hindsite?

jimjam wrote:His NYC real estate developer M.O. of creating chaos may well result in the biggest depression ever.
That does not imply "genius". :lol:

The tariffs got pushed back once, already and China is going to impose their own, so Americans are going to feel the pinch. :knife:
#15029081
China is the biggest patent thief of the World. American Software is stolen, and free Software like Google and Facebook are not available.

China destroys minorities.

It is not just a tradewar but also an ideological war, one party ruled state-capitalism (Fascism) against democratic capitalism.
#15029164
Godstud wrote:Nowhere did jimjam say trump was a genius. Are you lacking in basic reading comprehension, @Hindsite?

I was referring to the following quote on page 69 where jimjam says Trump is a PR/media genius:
jimjam wrote:He holds some strong cards: lottsa $, a superb Republican organization behind him and he is a PR/media genius.


Godstud wrote:The tariffs got pushed back once, already and China is going to impose their own, so Americans are going to feel the pinch. :knife:

You apparently don't get much news from the U.S. over there in Thailand. Trump has announced he is going ahead with the September tariffs at 15% instead of 10% and will raise China 5% on the previous Tariffs come October. He has also ordered American companies to look for alternates to China. Americans may feel a pinch, but China will feel a bigger pinch.
#15029176
@Godstud
@Hindsite
Hindsite wrote:jimjam says Trump is a PR/media genius:


Yes …… but in no way an economic genius. His myopic NYC real estate economic M.O. ,which he is attempting to force on the world economy, is wholly inappropriate and will result in, possibly, the world's greatest depression.

You can't push on a string as the saying goes. Monetary policy cannot supplant poor fiscal policy or terrible trade policy. Trump thinks everything in the world boils down to simple transactional, bilateral "deals" where one entity dominates and "wins" over the other. That's not how an integrated, globalized economy functions. All economies are sailing on the one ship of the global economy. Some have better cabins, but can all sink together. Trump is sinking that ship. The U.S. and world economy stands at a precipice. Will Trump push us over?

We have a man who is suffering from early to mid stage dementia playing fast and lose with economic fire. Good luck human race ….. :|
Last edited by jimjam on 24 Aug 2019 23:23, edited 1 time in total.
#15029179
jimjam wrote:Good luck human race ….. :|


I might be less hysterical to HindSite but I think the rise of Trump is a response to the hypocritical "Leftards", and I will not say Trump's work is all bad. In fact, I actually have no mercy on the human race as well. If God thinks we have sinned so much that we should simply die, this may be part of His arrangement. I just wish Him make it quick and fast.

Still, I will try to live my life as good as I believe before that moment comes, because that's my life granted by Him.

Thanks to Him for everything, even though I actually don't follow any religion.
By Rugoz
#15029233
jimjam wrote:I see where Obese Donald has declared the Chairman of the Federal Reserve an "enemy" of America.


Trump is panicking because if the US enters a recession before his first term is over he will not get a second term. There's little the FED or Trump can do about it though. It's not like boom-bust cycles will be a thing of the past just because Emperor Trump has taken over. :roll:
#15029234
Rugoz wrote:Trump is panicking because if the US enters a recession before his first term is over he will not get a second term. There's little the FED or Trump can do about it though. It's not like boom-bust cycles will be a thing of the past just because Emperor Trump has taken over. :roll:


Trump isn't ''panicking''. You're assuming he's ''panicking'' because that's what a regular US President in regular economic crisis times might do. But President Trump isn't a regular US President, as people might have noticed. Lots of assumptions, which in these circumstances are not called for. What I propose and what I predict is that President Trump wants an severe economic crisis. A severe economic crisis requires radical political solutions in people's minds, which solutions President Trump can then offer to them. It's not like people will be blaming him, he's already blamed what's coming on his political enemies and the looming trade war with China, thus blaming China too. He knows people in a Capitalist society don't think long enough through a boom-bust cycle, and either way he comes out smelling like a rose.
#15029239
jimjam wrote:Trump is sinking that ship. The U.S. and world economy stands at a precipice. Will Trump push us over?


Bannon thought Trump was an "imperfect vessel", but maybe Trump has internalized in his odd way enough of Bannon's creative destruction ideology that he thinks smashing up global trade system will work out just fine. On the other hand, Trump isn't stupid, he knows that when the pain starts to be felt at home, he'll be history.

annatar1914 wrote:It's not like people will be blaming him, he's already blamed what's coming on his political enemies and the looming trade war with China, thus blaming China too.


Maybe that's what they think in the alt-right echo chamber. In the real world, everybody, everybody that counts, blames Trump. Trump is to blame for climate change, Trump is to blame for the coming global recession, Trump is to blame for conflict in the ME, Trump is to blame for Kim's rockets, ... The narrative has been set and the alt-right doesn't have the credentials to change that. Trump has been warned not to do it by the entire world, foe and friend alike, don't fuck with the climate, don't fuck with Iran, don't fuck with the economy ... all to no avail.

Since he considers himself to be the "chosen King of Israel", his godlike presence doesn't need advisers. Only emperor Trump, nay the messiahs himself, knows what's right and wrong and f*ck the rest of humanity. After all, he could just nuke the bl**dy planet and only "his great humanity" prevents him from "killing a few million Afghans", which according to him, he could do any time.
#15029244
@Atlantis you replied to me that ;


Maybe that's what they think in the alt-right echo chamber.


I don't know if you've read my posting history, I'm not exactly ''alt-right''.

In the real world, everybody, everybody that counts, blames Trump.


By what metric do you measure ''people who count''? The Neo-liberal gerontocracy that dodders along pretending to run things in the West while everything collapses into a nice mix of Anarcho-Tyranny?


Trump is to blame for climate change, Trump is to blame for the coming global recession, Trump is to blame for conflict in the ME, Trump is to blame for Kim's rockets, ... The narrative has been set and the alt-right doesn't have the credentials to change that. Trump has been warned not to do it by the entire world, foe and friend alike, don't fuck with the climate, don't fuck with Iran, don't fuck with the economy ... all to no avail.


He has, or will have, a counter-narrative to roll out in the coming days and months and years, he's already let his own enemies in the MSM stupidly implant it in the American collective psyche. People want blood out of all this, expect lots of blood.

Since he considers himself to be the "chosen King of Israel", his godlike presence doesn't need advisers. Only emperor Trump, nay the messiahs himself, knows what's right and wrong and f*ck the rest of humanity. After all, he could just nuke the bl**dy planet and only "his great humanity" prevents him from "killing a few million Afghans", which according to him, he could do any time.


And technically speaking, he could. Potentiality has now had Actuality catch up with it. Did you think that the very real powers of the Cold War US Presidency would never get used somehow, that a man in the Oval Office would never be prepared to use the full might of American Hegemony to sustain American Hegemony and even Capitalism itself?

Ghengis Khan didn't shrink from 'breaking a few eggs to make an Omlette' in building the Mongol Empire, and neither will President Trump shrink from the task he believes he's set upon.

Again, this guy wants crisis, he was born for it.
#15029252
@annatar1914, I have no idea whether you are alt-right or not. All I'm saying is that what you say sounds like it could come from that corner.

annatar1914 wrote:By what metric do you measure ''people who count''? The Neo-liberal gerontocracy that dodders along pretending to run things in the West while everything collapses into a nice mix of Anarcho-Tyranny?


If you are not alt-right, perhaps your are alt-left?

However that may be, you seem to share populist feelings (right or left) about the "establishment".

He has, or will have, a counter-narrative to roll out in the coming days and months and years, he's already let his own enemies in the MSM stupidly implant it in the American collective psyche. People want blood out of all this, expect lots of blood.


Trump represents the "nasty elite". By comparison, the traditional elite smells of roses. In fact, he himself justified his acquaintance with pedophile power broker Epstein because he considers himself to be part of the elite who are all acquainted with each other.

His supporters don't want blood. They are overweight dimwitted idiots who want beer, burgers and TV shows, but no discomfort. Trump is fucking every ally over the head to sneak out of America's most stupid war in Afghanistan by the backdoor because his supporters don't want blood. He thinks he can bluff by playing the bully, but when he's up against a real country like Iran, he ducks away with his tail between his legs.

Ghengis Khan didn't shrink from 'breaking a few eggs to make an Omlette' in building the Mongol Empire, and neither will President Trump shrink from the task he believes he's set upon.


Trump as Ghengis Khan :lol: what's next?

Again, this guy wants crisis, he was born for it.


I don't know why you people are so fascinated by this complete idiot. Trump is a bully, and like every bully he's a coward at heart.
By Rugoz
#15029253
annatar1914 wrote:Trump isn't ''panicking''. You're assuming he's ''panicking'' because that's what a regular US President in regular economic crisis times might do. But President Trump isn't a regular US President, as people might have noticed. Lots of assumptions, which in these circumstances are not called for. What I propose and what I predict is that President Trump wants an severe economic crisis. A severe economic crisis requires radical political solutions in people's minds, which solutions President Trump can then offer to them. It's not like people will be blaming him, he's already blamed what's coming on his political enemies and the looming trade war with China, thus blaming China too. He knows people in a Capitalist society don't think long enough through a boom-bust cycle, and either way he comes out smelling like a rose.


You're delusional. That's all there is to say.
#15029255
Rugoz wrote:You're delusional. That's all there is to say.


I suppose the best test of these matters is time. Now, that's all there is to say.
#15029256
@Atlantis;


I have no idea whether you are alt-right or not. All I'm saying is that what you say sounds like it could come from that corner.


Not really. ''Alt-Right'' is basically a nebulous pseudo-intellectual blob wrapped around Neo-Fascism, with heroes like Julius Evola and Ernst Junger.



If you are not alt-right, perhaps your are alt-left?

However that may be, you seem to share populist feelings (right or left) about the "establishment".


I'm Socialist, actually, of the ''Old Left'' variety before the faux ''Left'' arose that got itself involved in the intellectual onanism of identity politics.



Trump represents the "nasty elite". By comparison, the traditional elite smells of roses. In fact, he himself justified his acquaintance with pedophile power broker Epstein because he considers himself to be part of the elite who are all acquainted with each other.


I don't distinguish the Two Elites. The Elites always start out with a ''Donald Trump'' whose descendants wouldn't prefer even let him in the back door of their mansions with the hired help, if they couldn't avoid it.

His supporters don't want blood. They are overweight dimwitted idiots who want beer, burgers and TV shows, but no discomfort.


You are very mistaken.

Trump is fucking every ally over the head to sneak out of America's most stupid war in Afghanistan by the backdoor because his supporters don't want blood. He thinks he can bluff by playing the bully, but when he's up against a real country like Iran, he ducks away with his tail between his legs.


No, his supporters would rather burn it down to the ground and then go home, it's the playing by the rules of civilized war which rankle them.


Trump as Ghengis Khan :lol: what's next?


I'm wondering if you'll be laughing in a few years? God, I'd love to be wrong, you just don't know.



I don't know why you people are so fascinated by this complete idiot. Trump is a bully, and like every bully he's a coward at heart.


You underestimate him, and this is due to a flaw in your own worldview which I can't possibly relate to you by analogy, it's like talking about an elephant to blind men, perhaps. He actually wants you to think of him as a ''complete idiot'', a ''coward and bully'', a ''buffoon''. Watch professional wrestling, the psychology of creating a wrestler's ''persona'' and establishing narratives for an audience, for Vince McMahon actually is a good friend of Trump's and has made Billions from this NLP. You're getting played.
#15029292
annatar1914 wrote:Trump isn't ''panicking''. You're assuming he's ''panicking'' because that's what a regular US President in regular economic crisis times might do. But President Trump isn't a regular US President, as people might have noticed. Lots of assumptions, which in these circumstances are not called for. What I propose and what I predict is that President Trump wants an severe economic crisis. A severe economic crisis requires radical political solutions in people's minds, which solutions President Trump can then offer to them. It's not like people will be blaming him, he's already blamed what's coming on his political enemies and the looming trade war with China, thus blaming China too. He knows people in a Capitalist society don't think long enough through a boom-bust cycle, and either way he comes out smelling like a rose.

We are not in an economic crisis. The USA is in a better economic position than any country in the world and much better than we were 3 years ago. Trump is simply using our great economic superiority to push back on China's cheating and to prevent the world from using the USA as a piggy bank to raid every year. Makes perfect sense to me. However, I am only a near genius, so I could be missing something.
#15029300
@Hindsite

We are not in an economic crisis.


Yes we are, but it's Systemic, and a little more long term of a problem

The USA is in a better economic position than any country in the world


Not really, again, longer term the prognosis is grim. The Tariffs will not bring the manufacturing back, they will result in WWIII.


and much better than we were 3 years ago.


Right-Wing Conservative version of Obama-era ''Hopium''.

Trump is simply using our great economic superiority to push back on China's cheating and to prevent the world from using the USA as a piggy bank to raid every year.


He's playing brinksmanship, I know, I've been telling the hysterics that in somewhat more words than that. But it's not going to bring the manufacturing jobs back. Those got outsourced and automation completed the ruin of a real middle class. Stronger measures will be taken.


Makes perfect sense to me. However, I am only a near genius, so I could be missing something.


This is what you're missing;

"Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. Happy is he that hath the God of Jacob for his help, whose hope is in the Lord his God."


Psalm 146:3-5
#15029330
annatar1914 wrote:The Tariffs will not bring the manufacturing back, they will result in WWIII.

I don't think China will declare war on the US. Killing your customer isn't good for business. China doesn't have the naval forces to do too much to the US on a conventional scale. If they use nukes against the US, that would be a huge problem for China. The US could easily defeat China in a naval war, but on land it would be pointless for the US to try to do anything to China. The US would simply get its ass kicked in China, and China would get its ass kicked in the United States. The reality is that it isn't in the interest of either side to go to war on land. So the only possible wars would be naval, air, space and cyber.

annatar1914 wrote:He's playing brinksmanship, I know, I've been telling the hysterics that in somewhat more words than that. But it's not going to bring the manufacturing jobs back. Those got outsourced and automation completed the ruin of a real middle class. Stronger measures will be taken.

There is no comparative advantage to outsourcing automated manufacturing. So maybe some of the jobs don't come back, but some of the production will come back.

jimjam wrote:You can't push on a string as the saying goes. Monetary policy cannot supplant poor fiscal policy or terrible trade policy. Trump thinks everything in the world boils down to simple transactional, bilateral "deals" where one entity dominates and "wins" over the other. That's not how an integrated, globalized economy functions. All economies are sailing on the one ship of the global economy. Some have better cabins, but can all sink together. Trump is sinking that ship. The U.S. and world economy stands at a precipice. Will Trump push us over?

You purport to support Trump on his actions against China. Has something changed, or is this just your evening constitutional rant?

Rugoz wrote:Trump is panicking because if the US enters a recession before his first term is over he will not get a second term.

That's not in the bag. A soft landing wouldn't necessarily be the end for Trump. You have to remember that in 2007, oil hit $147 a barrel. The yield curve inverted, and real estate was massively over-inflated.

Rates are not nearly as high now as they were in 2007-2008. Oil is not nearly as expensive. Unemployment is not nearly as high. Real estate is only inflated in blue-state areas like San Francisco and New York City. Things would have to change pretty drastically given the current state of the Democratic party. People like Trump, because he fights. They hated George W. Bush for just taking it on the chin day after day, and he won a second term without a particularly hot economy. John Kerry's personality made that possible. Right now the Democrats are a mess. It's still early. If they can nominate people who aren't completely batshit crazy, like Tulsi Gabbard or Steve Bullock, they might actually have a chance. However, they do not appear to be headed in that direction.

Rugoz wrote:There's little the FED or Trump can do about it though.

The Fed is going to have to cut again to address the yield curve. That's the main thing in monetary policy right now.

[quote='annatar1914']It's not like people will be blaming him, he's already blamed what's coming on his political enemies and the looming trade war with China, thus blaming China too.[/quote]
He already ran on this, and voters responded. Voters understand the problem with China. To be fair, so do his detractors, but they just don't give two shits about the working class in the United States. They are hoping they can keep drowning us in the fruit salad of gender and racial identities ad infinitum.

Atlantis wrote:Trump is a bully, and like every bully he's a coward at heart.

And what are Xi Jinping, Kim Jong Il, or Teresa May during her reign? What about Vladimir Putin? Are none of these people bullies? Are they all just full of courage and resolve?
#15029336
Alright, my Capitalist friend, you said in reply to my comment about tariffs and war that;

I don't think China will declare war on the US. Killing your customer isn't good for business. China doesn't have the naval forces to do too much to the US on a conventional scale. If they use nukes against the US, that would be a huge problem for China. The US could easily defeat China in a naval war, but on land it would be pointless for the US to try to do anything to China. The US would simply get its ass kicked in China, and China would get its ass kicked in the United States. The reality is that it isn't in the interest of either side to go to war on land. So the only possible wars would be naval, air, space and cyber.


Or nuclear. But what i'm seeing with these tariffs is really a coming period of resurgent nationalism and economic autarky, with three or four major blocs of alliances between groups of nations in vigorous competition around the world. This can only lead to major wars in the future.

There is no comparative advantage to outsourcing automated manufacturing. So maybe some of the jobs don't come back, but some of the production will come back.


For which our educational system is woefully unprepared to train for. I suspect a revised immigration system and continuance of our two-tiered networks of schools will address that... More STEM, more pre-Military training.
#15029362
blackjack21 wrote:The Fed is going to have to cut again to address the yield curve. That's the main thing in monetary policy right now.

I agree. But the Chairman is acting like an idiot.
#15029384
@annatar1914, I really don't know where you get those crazy ideas from. Trump is a coward and his supporters are lazy slobs. They only like death and destruction on the TV screen as long as it doesn't concern them directly.

Trump may have been superficially infected by Bannon's creative destruction ideology, but that's not the original Trump. The original Trump worries about everything the may impact the profit line.

He isn't even any good as bully, because in the real world, people call his bluff and expose him for what he is: an over-sized toddler with the emotional maturity of a 5-year old. His idea is to intimidate the opponent with a lot of chest beating and then graciously dictate the terms on the opponent bending over backward. When the bluff fails, as in NK, his opponents leads him through the ring by his nose-ring.

Trump doesn't want war, but he may inadvertently trigger a war by behaving like the proverbial elephant in the porcelain shop. In the ME, there are dozens of militias and other non-state groups that can easily get out off control and produce a Sarajevo type incident.
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