Presvias wrote:Well I can agree with this : "Theresa MAY screwed up from day one."
^ That's why we're in the current mess.
I also reluctantly agree with this..
"there will not be an outcome that satisfies everyone & europe is now at the point of facing up to the reality that we can make an awful lot of problems for them, were we to remain in the E.U." << It's not a good thing.
And I agree that an association agreement would've been fine too.
However, it is simply wrong to suggest that no one on the Leave side voted for a deal.
Clearly you have done your homework, so you will no doubt be aware that vote leave, grassroots out and leave.eu all very explicitly stated that we'd leave with a deal, as did all leaver politicians I can think of.
Even Sajid Javid on Marr was FORCED to concede that no deal would be the 'worst outcome' when pressed by Marr. (shrugs)
Even BJ can't openly tell us that he's affecting for a no deal; that'd be suicide because every single shred of proof (unless you can find me some to the contrary) very explicitly says that no deal Brexit will be damaging to the economy.
What can you say? I would have no problem with no deal if everything wasn't telling me that it's wrong.
No disrespect to pro-no dealers; but they seem to have very few arguments in support of their position IMHO. This mess resides largely with May's inability to negotiate (and to add insult injury, Maybot goes and gives honours to those utterly incompetent prats that fecked Brexit up for us...just to spite the whole country one last time..).
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However, it is simply wrong to suggest that no one on the Leave side voted for a deal".I should have put the notion in it's full context,which is the referendum question,that is all that people voted on.
I accept the above as it is in respect of MP's, but not of the referendum question,although reaching a 'deal', arrangement, or whatever, is always preferable in both parties interest,but of course, we are not there yet & the E.U have previously stated that they will not re-open the W.A.
The 'problem' for the E.U is, the U.K has not ratified the agreement in any shape or form, in fact, it has been rejected 3 times,so there is no agreement,yet the E.U insist that it's signed & sealed.
The fact is, until any 'agreement' is ratified by both parties parliaments, there is no 'agreement' reached, in fact, we are still at square one, heading for the default exit, an absolute failure of statecraft on all sides.
Theresa MAY stated that 'nothing is agreed, until everything is agreed', if 'everything' is not wrapped up watertight, then we can say that the default no position is the final one & we leave with no deal.
That is the logic of the situation,A50 provides for a leaving member state to settle it's account with the E.U,it's incumbent on the E.U to also agree with that member, an outcome that is fair,which it is not being so for the reason below.
The 'backstop' is being used by the E.U to attach 'strings' to our exit from the union, when that issue, as well as others is not agreed,then the E.U cannot be said to have negotiated without prejudice.
It is,as I state above, incumbent on both parties to 'agree' an amicable arrangement on the separation,the E.U has an equal responsibility on reaching a settlement on the Irish border question, because half of the problem is of their own making-the insistence of a border between the two halves of Ireland.
The E.U has,so far, refused to actually do 'anything' about the border, because it says, 'it doesn't need to', which is wrong & could be used against it in the ECJ.
Again, parliament is in the midst of a mental breakdown from remainers,if they think that they can influence the outcome they are delusional & deranged.
The E.U would,could never, ever, deal with a foreign, or even,a member state's parliament, only with the government will they negotiate, they will not agree anything concrete with one that is controlled by it's parliament, particularly when it's a matter of confidence & any 'panic' actions by parliament on it's resumption would shatter any blind faith that people have in the political system.