EU Banks Reject Economic Stimulus - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Political issues and parties in Europe's nation states, the E.U. & Russia.

Moderator: PoFo Europe Mods

Forum rules: No one line posts please. This is an international political discussion forum, so please post in English only.
#15034957
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... s-steps-up

An offer for three-year loans -- at a rate that starts at zero and could fall as low as the deposit rate, currently minus 0.5% -- was taken up by 28 banks for a total of just 3.4 billion euros ($3.8 billion), well below predictions of 20-100 billion euros.

Wow! It seems that this is unprecedented? How doomed is Europe's economy when the banks won't take stimulus funds? I assume that more failed UBI experiments are next. Sad!
#15034970
Hong Wu wrote:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-19/ecb-gives-banks-3-4-billion-euros-for-free-as-stimulus-steps-up


Wow! It seems that this is unprecedented? How doomed is Europe's economy when the banks won't take stimulus funds? I assume that more failed UBI experiments are next. Sad!


We have enough capital and capability to give out loans. The problem is that we are over loaned the same way as the US. Yeah, we can grow consumption short term by giving out even more loans but it is a road to nowhere at this point. Its nice that even the EU banks started to figure this out. The problem is not better in the US by the way. May be slightly but its the same basically. US private debt is around 200% of GDP. This is the same for France, Germany, UK etc. Some cases are a bit more and some cases are a bit less. Iceland had 800% of GDP as private debt and it collapsed. Greece also had a huge amount. This is a road to nowhere. We need to figure our how to reduce it against to around 100-150% or even better to 50% like in 1950-1960s. The problem for the US is that not only does it have high private debt of around 200% but also public debt that is half of that of around 100%. This problem is present in countries like Italy in Europe but most countries managed to clear this up.
#15035019
The issue in my opinion is that people want things which can't be granted. Most of Europe hates austerity, yet stimulus policies are reaching their physical limits. People who try to get beyond historical prosperity through leftism while also trying to support the entire world's migrants are going to be mad no matter how this plays out.

Similarly, GM has a strike on its hands and arguably can't afford to accede to the demands: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/gm-ca ... 2019-09-20

In the worst case scenario, there will be no more GM. This phenomenon might be repeated across Europe in the future. People existing who have a bigger house or car than you doesn't mean that there's actually resources available to give everyone everything that they want. And no one complains if the rich person entertains them but if someone actually does something real, gets rewarded but doesn't deliver the moon and the stars, watch out. Sad!
#15035021
Hong Wu wrote:The issue in my opinion is that people want things which can't be granted. Most of Europe hates austerity, yet stimulus policies are reaching their physical limits. People who try to get beyond historical prosperity through leftism while also trying to support the entire world's migrants are going to be mad no matter how this plays out.

Similarly, GM has a strike on its hands and arguably can't afford to accede to the demands: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/gm-ca ... 2019-09-20

In the worst case scenario, there will be no more GM. This phenomenon might be repeated across Europe in the future. People existing who have a bigger house or car than you doesn't mean that there's actually resources available to give everyone everything that they want. And no one complains if the rich person entertains them but if someone actually does something real, gets rewarded but doesn't deliver the moon and the stars, watch out. Sad!


This is not leftism you fool. This is neoliberalism reaching a turning point or collapsing on itself. America is in a very similar boat right now.
#15035025
You're wrong. The leftism that people claim they want doesn't exist. It's a delusion based upon the desires inherent to life and western millennials will fail to deliver upon it just like everyone else ever has. In America, Trumpism will eventually be viewed like the last bit of light before the dark. Maybe those who take on the burdens of leadership deserve at least as much as is given to ball kickers, actors and musicians? But those latter have no capacity to give anything out, also they're entertaining, so they get a pass. Sad!
#15035026
Hong Wu wrote:You're wrong. The leftism that people claim they want doesn't exist. It's a delusion based upon the desires inherent to life and western millennials will fail to deliver upon it just like everyone else ever has. In America, Trumpism will eventually be viewed like the last bit of light before the dark. Maybe those who take on the burdens of leadership deserve at least as much as is given to ball kickers, actors and musicians? But those latter have no capacity to give anything out, also they're entertaining, so they get a pass. Sad!


So you think GM closing factories in US is somehow related to leftism instead of outsourcing, optimisation of costs or low demand from millenials who have no money to buy cars on average? The problem is not the absence of resources, we have plenty. The absence of resources is the fact that people are loosing their ability to buy things, we compensated by loans for a long time now but this created inflated prices for a lot of things. Now reality is setting in.

Do not forget. The Taxpayers saved GM relatively recently. Why are the middle classes in charge of bailing out banks and large businesses but corporate businesses lobby for lower corporate taxation and don't even pay taxes in a lot of cases plus are allowed to even practice their cost-optimisation strategies?
#15035033
JohnRawls wrote:So you think GM closing factories in US is somehow related to leftism instead of outsourcing, optimisation of costs or low demand from millenials who have no money to buy cars on average? The problem is not the absence of resources, we have plenty. The absence of resources is the fact that people are loosing their ability to buy things, we compensated by loans for a long time now but this created inflated prices for a lot of things. Now reality is setting in.

Do not forget. The Taxpayers saved GM relatively recently. Why are the middle classes in charge of bailing out banks and large businesses but corporate businesses lobby for lower corporate taxation and don't even pay taxes in a lot of cases plus are allowed to even practice their cost-optimisation strategies?

Yes. GM having been on a lifeline for a decade at least doesn't disprove my argument.

It's like this. People want more than GM can afford to give, GM is competing with places like China in a free market which is why it can't afford certain things, yet the loudest people are also enraged by tariffs and protectionism, which might solve the China (et al.) issue because they want low consumer prices. Calling people foolish neo-liberals has no impact upon this situation.

This is not really a leftist or rightist issue. Leftism and rightism are human inventions. But rightism trends towards reality whereas Leftism trends towards fantasy. That's all.

Incidentally, my phone treats "rightism" as a typo but auto-capitalizes Leftism. Comical really. Someone at Google thought they were saving the world with that?

The outcome can only be protectionism, which will be blamed for higher prices, or a continued flight of wealth and prosperity to places that are willing to accept lower standards. Either way there are cause and effect phenomenon running that people don't want to accept.
#15035038
Hong Wu wrote:Yes. GM having been on a lifeline for a decade at least doesn't disprove my argument.

It's like this. People want more than GM can afford to give, GM is competing with places like China in a free market which is why it can't afford certain things, yet the loudest people are also enraged by tariffs and protectionism, which might solve the China (et al.) issue because they want low consumer prices. Calling people foolish neo-liberals has no impact upon this situation.

This is not really a leftist or rightist issue. Leftism and rightism are human inventions. But rightism trends towards reality whereas Leftism trends towards fantasy. That's all.

Incidentally, my phone treats "rightism" as a typo but auto-capitalizes Leftism. Comical really. Someone at Google thought they were saving the world with that?

The outcome can only be protectionism, which will be blamed for higher prices, or a continued flight of wealth and prosperity to places that are willing to accept lower standards. Either way there are cause and effect phenomenon running that people don't want to accept.


Its funny how you view right and left in terms of realistic and unrealistic. Honestly, i don't want to write this again and again. I posted about this a lot in the Election 2020 thread. Basically, just tariffs is not a solution. Renegotiating trade deals is not a solution. The whole system needs an overhaul. Cutting off China, India, Africa etc from US/EU labour markets is needed. (Well more places than just that) Free trade needs to be limited to EU/US/Japan/Australia/etc high income countries. Limit the movement of capital and crack down on tax heavans. Force capital to invest locally and punish them for cost-cutting in some cases by higher taxes. (Especially for outsourcing)
Election 2020

Yes, I am certain that one of the reasons why O[…]

Trump, Oh my god !

I'm not a socialist. As such, I do not see a mo[…]

And this is why we need to look at causes. Any so[…]

Canadian Federal Election

The two countries have similar histories, and thus[…]