Election 2020 - Page 28 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By Stormsmith
#15034854
If I was an American citizen, any one of the candidates would do. Crikey, your kitty cat would do. Anyone who didn't stuff kids in kennels and gave a damn about the environment etc would do.
User avatar
By Drlee
#15034856
You would think so. But last time IIR Trump got 40% of white women. Who would have thought?
User avatar
By Stormsmith
#15034865
Hubby and I always vote, but up here, I think that's as rare as as it is on your side of the line. We've got an election coming. This year I won't be voting for Handsome Justin. We'll vote for our MP, who is Green. I'm just glad the whole thing is dead and dusted in approximately 7 weeks.
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By JohnRawls
#15034890
Just a tip on how to get elected irrelevant of democrat or republican. If you acknowledge the problem and figure out how to solve the situation then you will probably win. Trump has no plan basically but he at least acknowledged the problem. So if anybody wants to beat a candidate like that then the next step is to actually acknowledge the problem and figure out a plan forward. The only realistic candidate who has a chance to do that from the top 3 (Biden, Bernie and Warren) is Warren but she will never get the nomination. Nor is it even a guarantee of her not doing the standard republican or democrat stupidity the same way as O'Rourke did or MCcain/Romney etc

The problem is down here(This will only get worse by the way if nothing is done):
Image
By Code Rood
#15035037
blackjack21 wrote:Well, your implication is that Trump is a bog standard establishment neoliberal/neoconservative. He's not. He just fired Bolton. Maybe Trump's reading our posts. :-)


And he has been replaced by another neocon. So yeah, that's just awesome. :roll: Am I supposed to celebrate now?

Nothing really ever changes. The USA is stuck with neocons (former Trotskyites) on one side and neo-liberals on the other side. And both basically think the same when it comes to the core issues. The sooner people realize this, the better. Wise up and stop participating in this circus every four years. Everything is completely controlled. An actual America first candidate (not a phony like Trump) would never win. You have to be a Zionist, an internationalist and an imperialist if you want to make it to the White House.
User avatar
By Crantag
#15035186
JohnRawls wrote:Just a tip on how to get elected irrelevant of democrat or republican. If you acknowledge the problem and figure out how to solve the situation then you will probably win. Trump has no plan basically but he at least acknowledged the problem. So if anybody wants to beat a candidate like that then the next step is to actually acknowledge the problem and figure out a plan forward. The only realistic candidate who has a chance to do that from the top 3 (Biden, Bernie and Warren) is Warren but she will never get the nomination. Nor is it even a guarantee of her not doing the standard republican or democrat stupidity the same way as O'Rourke did or MCcain/Romney etc

The problem is down here(This will only get worse by the way if nothing is done):
Image

Precisely correct.

My parents bought the house I grew up in under similar circumstances in the late 1970s for $16,000. It was a fixer upper and they put a lot of work into it. Still, my mom sold it in 2006 for $426,000. It's probably worth quite a bit more today.

The inflation of college prices has far outstripped probably most other categories of inflation. The student debt situation is modern day indentured servitude, particularly because the loans can never be forgiven through bankruptcy or other such means. People take at loans, for which the collateral is their own flesh and blood, given that they generally have no other sort of equity or collateral (but are considered credit worthy because of the potential they'll make money later, as well as the federal government student loan guarantees).

It's a sort of virtual indentured servitude, in effect (virtual in the sense that the banks aren't directly administering the servants, but have virtual enforcement mechanisms, like wage garnishments and collection agencies).
By BigSteve
#15035189
Drlee wrote:You would think so. But last time IIR Trump got 40% of white women. Who would have thought?


Who would've thought?

Maybe everyone who understood that the accusations that were being made against Trump were complete bullshit...
User avatar
By JohnRawls
#15035197
BigSteve wrote:Who would've thought?

Maybe everyone who understood that the accusations that were being made against Trump were complete bullshit...


They are not completely bullshit actually. Just most women don't care about such accusations. He was accused of Machismo/dick behaviour basically. Which is outrageous to some but most find it okay.
User avatar
By Drlee
#15035213
T
he inflation of college prices has far outstripped probably most other categories of inflation. The student debt situation is modern day indentured servitude, particularly because the loans can never be forgiven through bankruptcy or other such means.


Absolutely correct. And this is just one reason why, as a conservative, I would get the federal government out of the loan business entirely. I "might" allow VA loan guarantees but that is about it. Most veterans I know do not use them because you can get a much better deal on the private market if you have good credit. (And GI or not, if you do not nobody has any business loaning you money for a house, particularly on the taxpayer's dime.)

But home loans are a similar deal. The real estate industry needs them. Without government loans/guarantees, given what people earn these days, the 20% down payment for a house would be impossible for the overwhelming majority of people.

In both education and housing loans, the influence of taxpayer money and legal intervention drives up the price of goods and services. What incentive does a university have to keep costs down when the federal government will loan the student whatever it takes? What choice does the student have?

If you want to see just how preposterous all of this is look at the cost of online university classes. They cost bupkis to produce and present yet the student pays as much or more for them than they do for the 'real' thing. They are absolute cash cows.

Check it out. The 300 level sociology course I am teaching is being offered in the classroom first semester and online the second. The cost per semester hour at the school makes the online class cost more than $$2100.00 Consider. The classroom edition of my course meets once a week for three hours. The class size is 80 and it is always full. At the in state tuition level of $727.00 per semester hour that class generates $58,160.00 for the university. Absolutely outrageous especially given that the class requires supplies consisting of a couple of thousand sheets of paper and a few boxes of gloves. That is it. No equipment other than a computer projector. Two part time adjuncts which, I can assure you, do not put so much as a dent in that amount.

And they can do this precisely because there is a never ending source of money that they can rely upon.

Then, in another thread, we can get into the notion that a great many degrees are simply ticket punches for jobs that would not require them at all if our high schools turned out 1969 level math and English skills. (In those days one could have a great middle class career on a high school diploma.)

The conservative position would be smaller government, getting us out of this business and saving the taxpayers money. Sure it would suck for Mississippi to have to fund its own universities (without California money) on its tax base but they would figure it out just like they did before the feds started throwing taxpayer money around like it was confetti.

And yes. It is indentured servitude. It is outrageous that an English teacher in my town with a Masters in Education degree amasses $58,000 in school debt. She is expected to repay this loan on a pre-tax income of $23.00 per hour.

The whole system is a disgrace.

Final shot. The tuition for international students at the Sorbonne is less than 1/2 the resident cost for a student at a mediocre US state university. (About 1/3 actually.) And the semester cost for an EU student is less than the cost of one semester hour in the US. Imagine the top graduate of a high school in the aforementioned Mississippi considering studying in one of the worlds great universities (Sorbonne) because it is cheaper than Mississippi State.
User avatar
By annatar1914
#15035223
Drlee wrote:T

Absolutely correct. And this is just one reason why, as a conservative, I would get the federal government out of the loan business entirely. I "might" allow VA loan guarantees but that is about it. Most veterans I know do not use them because you can get a much better deal on the private market if you have good credit. (And GI or not, if you do not nobody has any business loaning you money for a house, particularly on the taxpayer's dime.)

But home loans are a similar deal. The real estate industry needs them. Without government loans/guarantees, given what people earn these days, the 20% down payment for a house would be impossible for the overwhelming majority of people.

In both education and housing loans, the influence of taxpayer money and legal intervention drives up the price of goods and services. What incentive does a university have to keep costs down when the federal government will loan the student whatever it takes? What choice does the student have?

If you want to see just how preposterous all of this is look at the cost of online university classes. They cost bupkis to produce and present yet the student pays as much or more for them than they do for the 'real' thing. They are absolute cash cows.

Check it out. The 300 level sociology course I am teaching is being offered in the classroom first semester and online the second. The cost per semester hour at the school makes the online class cost more than $$2100.00 Consider. The classroom edition of my course meets once a week for three hours. The class size is 80 and it is always full. At the in state tuition level of $727.00 per semester hour that class generates $58,160.00 for the university. Absolutely outrageous especially given that the class requires supplies consisting of a couple of thousand sheets of paper and a few boxes of gloves. That is it. No equipment other than a computer projector. Two part time adjuncts which, I can assure you, do not put so much as a dent in that amount.

And they can do this precisely because there is a never ending source of money that they can rely upon.

Then, in another thread, we can get into the notion that a great many degrees are simply ticket punches for jobs that would not require them at all if our high schools turned out 1969 level math and English skills. (In those days one could have a great middle class career on a high school diploma.)

The conservative position would be smaller government, getting us out of this business and saving the taxpayers money. Sure it would suck for Mississippi to have to fund its own universities (without California money) on its tax base but they would figure it out just like they did before the feds started throwing taxpayer money around like it was confetti.

And yes. It is indentured servitude. It is outrageous that an English teacher in my town with a Masters in Education degree amasses $58,000 in school debt. She is expected to repay this loan on a pre-tax income of $23.00 per hour.

The whole system is a disgrace.

Final shot. The tuition for international students at the Sorbonne is less than 1/2 the resident cost for a student at a mediocre US state university. (About 1/3 actually.) And the semester cost for an EU student is less than the cost of one semester hour in the US. Imagine the top graduate of a high school in the aforementioned Mississippi considering studying in one of the worlds great universities (Sorbonne) because it is cheaper than Mississippi State.


Or, we could make Education ''free'', among other things, as just the worthwhile cost for a society interested in improving itself collectively by improving itself intellectually. Getting not just the government out of the student loan business but ceasing to make Education a private business altogether.
By BigSteve
#15035252
JohnRawls wrote:They are not completely bullshit actually. Just most women don't care about such accusations. He was accused of Machismo/dick behaviour basically. Which is outrageous to some but most find it okay.


Being accused of something and being guilty of it are entirely two different things.

Unsupported accusations are bullshit...
User avatar
By JohnRawls
#15035253
BigSteve wrote:Being accused of something and being guilty of it are entirely two different things.

Unsupported accusations are bullshit...


There is a literal tape of him saying him "Grab her by the pussy" or what exactly did you mean?
User avatar
By annatar1914
#15035254
JohnRawls wrote:There is a literal tape of him saying him "Grab her by the pussy" or what exactly did you mean?


So President Trump is a confirmed Heterosexual, speaking confidentially to another man about women. I think women are not bothered by such men, and if anything prefer such men (vulgar and boorish as they may be) to the degenerates and weaklings they see all the time now. At least such men, are men, and are likely to be men of action instead of dithering cretins.
User avatar
By JohnRawls
#15035258
annatar1914 wrote:So President Trump is a confirmed Heterosexual, speaking confidentially to another man about women. I think women are not bothered by such men, and if anything prefer such men (vulgar and boorish as they may be) to the degenerates and weaklings they see all the time now. At least such men, are men, and are likely to be men of action instead of dithering cretins.


Not necessarily. This has nothing to do with men being weak or strong. This has everything to do with women not viewing it in an outrageous manner like the democrats think. Some perhaps do but most just don't care. Trump has never advocated himself to be a paragon of virtue.
By BigSteve
#15035259
JohnRawls wrote:There is a literal tape of him saying him "Grab her by the pussy" or what exactly did you mean?


Where, exactly, is there an accusation in that?

Take your time...
User avatar
By Crantag
#15035260
annatar1914 wrote:Or, we could make Education ''free'', among other things, as just the worthwhile cost for a society interested in improving itself collectively by improving itself intellectually. Getting not just the government out of the student loan business but ceasing to make Education a private business altogether.

That's a legitimate argument, but the US is very far from that.

We are critiquing the system that is, and we all know the US isn't about to make higher education free (although it's an outside possibility, with movements in New York in that direction. California? Their state colleges cost as much as Ivy League schools.)

Given the system we have, I err toward Lee's position.

It might be a worthy ideal though to have free higher education.
User avatar
By annatar1914
#15035262
Not necessarily. This has nothing to do with men being weak or strong.


I think it does. There's been a deficit of strong leadership in the modern world because there's been a deficit of strong men. As usual, of course the women know the truth of the matter intuitively before we men do.

This has everything to do with women not viewing it in an outrageous manner like the democrats think.


Of course, because there's nothing outrageous about what he said, merely vulgar and not exactly moral, and most women know that on some level.


Some perhaps do but most just don't care. Trump has never advocated himself to be a paragon of virtue.


He is where he is to get a job done, and the question of morality or virtue lies with what he advocates or opposes, he and those who oppose him. I have seen throughout history such men as better exemplars of Civic Virtue than some of the smug patricians who oppose them, like the battle between Julius Caesar (who had the better Civic Virtue) and Marcus Tullius Cicero (who did not). I'm reminded also of vulgar and coarse but honest and civically virtuous US Presidents who were also roundly hated by their opponents, like Abraham Lincoln and Andrew Jackson.
User avatar
By Crantag
#15035264
@annatar1914 more on topic of the thread, how's Marriane Williams looking to you these days?

Sorry bro, but you couldn't predict the direction out of a wet paper bag.
User avatar
By annatar1914
#15035297
Crantag wrote:@annatar1914 more on topic of the thread, how's Marriane Williams looking to you these days?

Sorry bro, but you couldn't predict the direction out of a wet paper bag.


@Crantag ;

Sorry Bro, you're jumping the gun, leaving a very unsatisfying conclusion very prematurely when this whole passionate exercise in political theater is just getting started. You may want to quit from early exhaustion at looking upon this writhing melee, but the real athletes are still going on and on to the grand finale.

Last time I checked, Marianne Williamson is still very much in the race from Democratic nominee for US President. And, I fully expect her to come out more in front as the ''frontrunner'' candidacies implode. The 2020 Election is just getting started and it'll be full of all sorts of ''crazy'' surprises.
User avatar
By Crantag
#15035319
annatar1914 wrote:@Crantag ;

Sorry Bro, you're jumping the gun, leaving a very unsatisfying conclusion very prematurely when this whole passionate exercise in political theater is just getting started. You may want to quit from early exhaustion at looking upon this writhing melee, but the real athletes are still going on and on to the grand finale.

Last time I checked, Marianne Williamson is still very much in the race from Democratic nominee for US President. And, I fully expect her to come out more in front as the ''frontrunner'' candidacies implode. The 2020 Election is just getting started and it'll be full of all sorts of ''crazy'' surprises.

Thanks for the confirmation.

I didn't say what I said because I'm jumping the gun, I said what I said because the first time you said it, it let me know me know how hopeless you are at the predictions game.
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