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By Potemkin
#15035201
Atlantis wrote:They believe in unfettered capitalism and in the trickle down. They want to abolish social and environmental regulations to enter a race to the bottom, which they believe will make them incredibly rich. And once they are filthy rich, they believe that their people will benefit from the trickle down. That's the basic idea. They joined up with Cummings because he provided them with some sort of philosophy of a technological utopia that will once again bring the 5-eye countries to the very top. That is a very static view of politics and life in general.

It's the fundamental worldview of the British ruling class, and always has been. As soon as I realised this, back in the 1980s, I immediately became a revolutionary Communist. It's the only logical thing to do, really. :)
User avatar
By SolarCross
#15035212
Potemkin wrote:It's the fundamental worldview of the British ruling class, and always has been. As soon as I realised this, back in the 1980s, I immediately became a revolutionary Communist. It's the only logical thing to do, really. :)


Q: Is it true that the Soviet Union is the most progressive country in the world?

A: Of course! Life was already better yesterday than it's going to be tomorrow!
By Presvias
#15035226
Nonsense wrote:No, people elect governments largely because of the party's leaders.

You're disputing a simple self evident truth.

Nonsense-

Erh! No, they vote in a government, according to the policies that appeal to them.

Maybe your version is not quite as 'truthful' as you portray it.


..Indeed ;))


And because of the leader, the leader usually sets the tone and policies of the party?

(Ok maybe not in reality; but they have a large large input).

I think that you ought to consider becoming more 'enlightened' yourself, your ignorance is now in full display. :knife:

Um. The guy is white british in the middle of a white british majority town.

That's what I was referring to. That guy.

Instead of being coy or cryptic, just say exactly what I'm missing here? Is it some silly incident from a few years ago( that I thankfully missed)?


It was brought up because it was directly analogous to the Link's content, indiginous people were left in no doubt that certain migrant areas were 'no go' areas for indiginous people...comprendo?


Not at all.

I have no idea just how you came to that conclusion, did you look at the wrong tab or something? A different story? (Btw it's spelt with an e).


You post content that any reasonable person is entitled to accept as a statement of fact,of which it was not, they were allegations, that were denied by others present, yet you posted them,one assumes that you actually read & understood what you were reading before posting the Link- I leave others to consider as to the reason why.

Don't shoot the messenger.

In this case, I think you just shot yourself, that's what happens with 'trigger-happy' folks. :muha1:


No not really, you seem to be in this full defence mode of everything Boris does, and will pick up on some random guys saying "he didnt do this" as proof that he didn't do it. Lol. These news items are well reported and I can find a thousand more.

He was making a perfectly valid point on the vast amount of time & public money being spent on historical cases.

That was a ligitimate comment on the sheer cost, but, you are right to say that it's a destestable comment as it stands,on that point I couldn't disagree one jot.
The question he ought to have been asked if he wished to talk specifically about child-related cases is, why, when so much money is spent on policing, are there so many unanswered cases outstanding?


Good, you agree it's wrong.

Yes, there are far too many cases outstanding. I suspect establishment coverups.

I cannot believe that Harmful Harpie harriet could be the next speaker, she was responsible for helping defend pedophilic views in the 70s.


Compared to his predecessor, I would put the score then, at 2-1 in his favour. :lol: :lol:

Really...?



The way that things are currently going then, he doesn't have too long to wait for the end.

If NDBrexit fucks up, the end will be nigh for the Tories.

LOL, I wasn't specifically referring to those particular words, rather the 'spaffying' type, to which BoJo was attributing the wasted money on the child investigations,for which, if nothing came out of them, I would agree with that specific point, but condemn the prior lack of results in any such investigations already carried out & he went wrong IMHO, by linking child abuse investigations, with the waste of public money.

I think you're confused, you've confused an earlier point with another one.

It's ok, so am I. This forum really isn't good for writing long replies on a phone, what were we talking about again?

Give it time, I may catch you up there.

Good luck(!).

Whatever will be, will be, we will just have to wait & see.

Can't remember what the original point was, thanks to this forum's fiddly reply system.

Just part of the blame game, for which the voters will be the sole judge of.

It really is all the Nasty Party's fault 100%>

I think you misunderstood the point then, it was an opinion, on a hypothetical question, to which I thought, considering the goings on in parliament by MP's,he Speaker, the Lords etc, could be justified, so, if it placates you, consider it a hypothetical premise.....you see what a little 'diplomacy' does now. ;)

Diplomacy begets diplomacy. It did seem like you were debating based on that premise, but at least we're clear about the terms of the debate now.

You have yet to justify the 2022 premise though. :)

The European Union economy advanced 0.2 percent quarter-on-quarter in the three months to June 2019, slowing from a 0.5 percent expansion in the previous period. It was the weakest growth rate since the first quarter of 2013. GDP Growth Rate in European Union averaged 0.44 percent from 1995 until 2019, reaching an all time high of 1.30 percent in the third quarter of 1999 and a record low of -2.70 percent in the first quarter of 2009.

The U.K GDP increased by 0.3% in the 3 months to July 2019, the latest available figures.


Oh gawd, now you're clutching at straws mate. That chart backs MY point lol, you're hanging on 1 quarter....and NDBrexit is likely to cause a recession or at least damage vs already weak growth.

That really has made your argument look as flimsy as rice paper. I couldn't have done better to discredit your argument tbh. No offence and none taken I hope.

But then, were it sold off, those companies would be taking on all of the overheads,long term cost etc.

Then, unlike a state owned service such as the N.H.S, the element of competition would rapidly assert itself, takeovers would happen, like the privatised railways show, consumer satisfaction falls, prices rise & eventually, along comes the inevitable crisis point.
Then the state would have to re-engage, thus completing the circle & the consumers(patients) would end up paying more taxes along with less services by way of more rationing.


There you go then.

But it'll make the private co's a killing in the meantime won't it? You honestly don't think Boris wouldn't sell off the NHS?


So too are Labour,see what their conference stirs up, they too have been 'highjacked' by the BLAIRITE's, well those that haven't jumped ship, that is.



Fair enough.

Looks like the Corbynites are fighting back too though. Who knows.
User avatar
By JohnRawls
#15035255
Shit, stupid momentum leader didn't manage to oust Watson. Would be an epic win for the Lib Dems. That would purge all of the moderates from Labour the same way it is happening in the Tory party. Come on momentum people, you surely hate people who talk about Brexit. OUST HIM ALREADY. PURGE THE HERETICS!!
By Atlantis
#15035261
Potemkin wrote:It's the fundamental worldview of the British ruling class, and always has been. As soon as I realised this, back in the 1980s, I immediately became a revolutionary Communist. It's the only logical thing to do, really. :)


As long as the worker's paradise of true Communism can only exist in our imagination, I believe EU membership and some form of social market economy is our best bet. Anyways, the consequences of climate change will make the old left-right divide irrelevant.

Once the tsunami of right-wing populism and climate change deniers sweeps across the planet, where will the socialist dreamers seek harbor? Or are they going to join the populists for some sort of Goetterdaemmerung?

Let's not repeat the mistakes of the Weimar Republic which saw the rise of fascism while social democrats and communists were fighting each other.
User avatar
By SolarCross
#15035292
Atlantis wrote:Anyways, the consequences of climate change will make the old left-right divide irrelevant.

Climate change is a narrative that serves a totalitarian agenda, the same agenda as the old left have been pushing since forever and still are. Rather than make "the old left-right divide irrelevant" the climate change is how the old left aim to remain relevant since the class war narrative is a no show.

For the left all roads lead to totalitarianism.
User avatar
By Nonsense
#15035419
#15035419

Nonsense;

Ok, just to keep this short,seeing as you dislike long post & your replies lack substance that make any sense.
There's a James BOND quote, that may just equally apply to yourself,it goes like this,"There's a four letter word & you are full of it", comprendo? :moron:
By Presvias
#15035432
I note that you posted a graph that actually backs my point.... and have nothing poignant to add other than a few bits of chatty rubbish here and there.

Your lack of argument simply reflects back on you. :moron: In future, try not to dig large holes for yourself. And stop digging when you're halfway in..
User avatar
By Nonsense
#15035467
Presvias wrote:I note that you posted a graph that actually backs my point.... and have nothing poignant to add other than a few bits of chatty rubbish here and there.

Your lack of argument simply reflects back on you. :moron: In future, try not to dig large holes for yourself. And stop digging when you're halfway in..


Nonsense-

Your question was: -
#15034999

"Show me proof that it'll be ok and that it's 'fairly healthy' compared to other EU economies currently"?

My answer,
The European Union economy advanced 0.2 percent quarter-on-quarter in the three months to June 2019, slowing from a 0.5 percent expansion in the previous period. It was the weakest growth rate since the first quarter of 2013. GDP Growth Rate in European Union averaged 0.44 percent from 1995 until 2019, reaching an all time high of 1.30 percent in the third quarter of 1999 and a record low of -2.70 percent in the first quarter of 2009.

The U.K GDP increased by 0.3% in the 3 months to July 2019, the latest available figures.

It can be seen that the E.U's economy is currently, despite project fear, still marginally ahead of europe & is, to quote your own words, still "fairly healthy".

I would say that as far as the future is concerned, it would be a projection, but, were we to leave without, or to have a 'deal' that doesn't involve a Customs arrangement that involves us paying the E.U money without reciprocation, then our economy should do quite well with the freedom to trade with or where we like.
The E.U is likely to struggle somewhat, it's fine saying that large economies have more negotiating clout on the global trading scene, but that does not always equal long term success, even China is having 'difficulties' from the means & methods that it chose to grow.

The E.U will not, if the above E.U-U.K situation is neutral, without customs payments, with WTO rules applying to our trading arrangements as a Third Country, profit from that situation, whereas the U.K will, a result of it's competitiveness.

Indeed, the E.U is likely to stall somewhat in it's 'growth', because it's domestic budget will have to be balanced(some hopes)without U.K funding & that is likely to 'drag' on that economy.
Additionally, our currency has already fallen considerably,thus aiding our export & tourism sectors that will stimulate our foreign earnings in the short term.

In summary, the point I made to your question is proven & you have no 'argument' that contradicts it.

Therefore your 'point' was a 'pointless' fallacy, which illustrates that it is yourself that is 'digging holes', but hey! be my guest, keep a spade handy, or, being as productive at producing the rubbish that you do, a JCB would be more appropriate. :moron: :rockon:
By Presvias
#15035493
Do you even read what you write?

"It can be seen that the E.U's economy is currently, despite project fear, still marginally ahead of europe & is, to quote your own words, still "fairly healthy"."

That's kind of confusing when in a long conversation. And it's already hard to remember what each point was in reply to.

"I would say that as far as the future is concerned, it would be a projection, but, were we to leave without, or to have a 'deal' that doesn't involve a Customs arrangement that involves us paying the E.U money without reciprocation, then our economy should do quite well with the freedom to trade with or where we like.
The E.U is likely to struggle somewhat, it's fine saying that large economies have more negotiating clout on the global trading scene, but that does not always equal long term success, even China is having 'difficulties' from the means & methods that it chose to grow."

^ Which is complete and utter Nonsense as the graph you posted points out ie LONG TERM TRENDS show that things are not on our side.

Let alone all the other evidence provided before that.

Let alone the fact that GDP figures don't even tell half the story re whether we're going to prosper into the future, but you think 0.1% difference in GDP for one quarter does? :eh: :moron:

So..you've absolutely lived up to your name. Well done. :)
By B0ycey
#15035497
JohnRawls wrote:Meanwhile in Brexitland, Lib Dems surpass labour after announcing cancelation of Brexit if elected. Its one poll so within margin of error: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... ept-update

Also yougov projections seem to be positive.


Other polls have Labour with a narrow lead. Although as the Lib Dems are the party that overperforms their polling, perhaps Swinsons call to just revoke article 50 "come what may" might be a master stroke to separate themselves from Labour and be the big cheese come November.
User avatar
By JohnRawls
#15035507
B0ycey wrote:Other polls have Labour with a narrow lead. Although as the Lib Dems are the party that overperforms their polling, perhaps Swinsons call to just revoke article 50 "come what may" might be a master stroke to separate themselves from Labour and be the big cheese come November.


Here is a link to like 99% percent of the polls I think. Lib Dems had a spike to above 20 percent after they announced that they will cancel Brexit. So the lead has narrowed significantly between Labour and Lib Dems. Only 1 poll showed them under 20% like it was before mostly. Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_p ... l_election

So they definitely gained a lot.
By Rich
#15035512
Its fantastic to see the hard Brexiteers humiliated by their own fascist arrogance. The Brexiteers objectively are doing rather well. They won the referendum, they got away with decades of lies, and there's a real possibilty that they very soon could have their no deal Brexit. in the next few months they could have hard Brexit beyond their wildest dreams a few years ago.

But that's not enough for them, they must insist that everyone cowtows before them. They demand total and utter subservience to Brexit, total and utter silence about their lies. they demand total and utter surrender of our democratic rights and they predict political annihilation for Labour and the Lib Dems unless they obey.

So its fantastic to see the Lib Dems treating the referendum result with such disrespect and even more to see them being rewarded in the polls for doing so. it was fantastic to see all those Tory MPS losing the whip. It was great to see decades long Tories abandoning their party in despair. Its great to see Brexit doing such damage to Corbyn and Labour. And what joy to see that arrogant public school toff Boris Johnson denied the election that he thought he was entitled to. For me Brexit is the gift that keeps on giving.
By Rich
#15035592
Although I support Remain, I certainly don't support the Status Quo. I support one citizen, one vote in the EU.I abhor the anti German racist set up. A British or a German citizen's vote should carry the same weight as a Luxembourg Banker or a Belgian Muslim. I would also support an EU Army whose first action would be to liberate and annex Thrace.
User avatar
By Nonsense
#15035597
Presvias wrote:Do you even read what you write?

"It can be seen that the E.U's economy is currently, despite project fear, still marginally ahead of europe & is, to quote your own words, still "fairly healthy"."

That's kind of confusing when in a long conversation. And it's already hard to remember what each point was in reply to.

"I would say that as far as the future is concerned, it would be a projection, but, were we to leave without, or to have a 'deal' that doesn't involve a Customs arrangement that involves us paying the E.U money without reciprocation, then our economy should do quite well with the freedom to trade with or where we like.
The E.U is likely to struggle somewhat, it's fine saying that large economies have more negotiating clout on the global trading scene, but that does not always equal long term success, even China is having 'difficulties' from the means & methods that it chose to grow."

^ Which is complete and utter Nonsense as the graph you posted points out ie LONG TERM TRENDS show that things are not on our side.

Let alone all the other evidence provided before that.

Let alone the fact that GDP figures don't even tell half the story re whether we're going to prosper into the future, but you think 0.1% difference in GDP for one quarter does? :eh: :moron:

So..you've absolutely lived up to your name. Well done. :)


Nonsense-

Your question was: -
#15034999

"Show me proof that it'll be ok and that it's 'fairly healthy' compared to other EU economies currently"?


For all of delusional denials, the fact is, you are the one that does not read what you write.

I quote again, here is what you yourself wrote:
#15034999

"Show me proof that it'll be ok and that it's 'fairly healthy' compared to other EU economies currently"?

Clearly, you cannot understand plain English,because you are blind to what you wrote.

The operative word was, 'currently',which, in your haste to bilge snipe over other people's comments escapes your attention, I suggest that,in future, you might consider applying the attention to yourself, of matters, that you apply to others

[b]Let alone the fact that GDP figures don't even tell half the story re whether we're going to prosper into the future, but you think 0.1% difference in GDP for one quarter does? :eh: :moron:
[/b]

I get the impression, that your cranial capacity is approximate to that of a quantum dot, :moron: so let me, for the last time, attempt to engage with that dot sized 'brain' of yours, that, the question that you posed, referred to the comparability between the economies of the E.U - U.K, which it does.

I repeat my answer,just to illustrate the moronic response by yourself,to what was a reasonable statement:-

"It can be seen that the E.U's economy is currently, despite project fear, still marginally ahead of europe & is, to quote your own words, still "fairly healthy"."

That is currently a fact, it is not a statement about the future for obvious reasons,of which I suggested that the U.K will indeed 'prosper' somewhat better than the E.U, giving my ideas as to why.

Obviously, you have no counter-argument, so you resort to moronic comments about singular misplaced words in one sentence, I think you need to see a shrink, because I have no intention of continuing conversations with someone that has nothing to contribute positively to the debate on the thread. :moron:
Last edited by Nonsense on 23 Sep 2019 13:07, edited 1 time in total.
By Presvias
#15035599
@Rich

^ Wtf are you both on about? :moron:

Anyway, this is fascinating...

Tens of thousands of Twitter bots and/or trolls are pushing the Prime Minister’s ‘no deal’ Brexit message on the social media platform, according to an analysis of his followers.

From Russian interference to the unlawfulness of the leave campaigns, research suggests that there could be multiple actors interested in seeing the UK crash out of the EU without a deal.

If we assume that the UK public sphere is already compromised, then our current knowledge of online influence is likely to be the tip of the misinformation iceberg.

Around 23% of retweets were from pro-Trump accounts, a disproportionately high number.

Trying to make sense of this online environment is Doha-based Marc Owen Jones, Assistant Professor in Middle East Studies and Digital Humanities at Hamad Bin Khalifa University, whose research topics include information controls, digital authoritarianism and human rights.

Jones uses data techniques to examine propaganda on social media, the role of Twitter bots and strategies of informational control used by state and non-state actors.

MAGA and ‘No Deal’
In a two-part analysis, Jones examined a tweet by Boris Johnson that read: “The referendum result must be respected. We will leave the EU on 31st October. #LeaveOct31”.

The Prime Minister tweeted this twice – on 15 August 2019 and 27 August 2019. Between the two there were a total of around 20,000 retweets.

Jones said he was initially interested in the amount of bots who had retweeted the tweet, but his search found a huge volume of pro-Trump #MAGA (Make America Great Again) accounts.

Out of the more than 12,000 individual accounts analysed, nearly four times as many accounts contained the words MAGA or Trump-related terms compared to Brexit in their bios, and 8% of all Johnson’s retweets were from MAGA accounts.

“If we assume that all the accounts retweeting Johnson’s tweets are authentic, then the most cohesive community among them are those that identify with supporting Donald Trump,” Jones said.

.....


https://bylinetimes.com/2019/09/16/pro- ... sis-shows/
User avatar
By Nonsense
#15035600
Rich wrote:Its fantastic to see the hard Brexiteers humiliated by their own fascist arrogance. The Brexiteers objectively are doing rather well. They won the referendum, they got away with decades of lies, and there's a real possibilty that they very soon could have their no deal Brexit. in the next few months they could have hard Brexit beyond their wildest dreams a few years ago.

But that's not enough for them, they must insist that everyone cowtows before them. They demand total and utter subservience to Brexit, total and utter silence about their lies. they demand total and utter surrender of our democratic rights and they predict political annihilation for Labour and the Lib Dems unless they obey.

So its fantastic to see the Lib Dems treating the referendum result with such disrespect and even more to see them being rewarded in the polls for doing so. it was fantastic to see all those Tory MPS losing the whip. It was great to see decades long Tories abandoning their party in despair. Its great to see Brexit doing such damage to Corbyn and Labour. And what joy to see that arrogant public school toff Boris Johnson denied the election that he thought he was entitled to. For me Brexit is the gift that keeps on giving.


:moron: :moron:

A picture(icon)or two, paints a thousand words. :evil:
By Presvias
#15035602
Nonsense wrote:Nonsense-

Your question was: -
#15034999

"Show me proof that it'll be ok and that it's 'fairly healthy' compared to other EU economies currently"?


For all of delusional denials, the fact is, you are the one that does not read what you write.

I quote again, here is what you yourself wrote:
#15034999

"Show me proof that it'll be ok and that it's 'fairly healthy' compared to other EU economies currently"?

Clearly, you cannot understand plain English,because you are blind to what you wrote.

The operative word was, 'currently',which, in your haste to bilge snipe over other people's comments escapes your attention, I suggest that,in future, you might consider applying the attention to yourself, of matters, that you apply to others

[b]Let alone the fact that GDP figures don't even tell half the story re whether we're going to prosper into the future, but you think 0.1% difference in GDP for one quarter does? :eh: :moron:
[/b]

I get the impression, that your cranial capacity is approximate to that of a quantum dot, :moron: so let me, for the last time, attempt to engage with that dot sized 'brain' of yours, that, the question that you posed, referred to the comparability between the economies of the E.U - U.K, which it does.

I repeat my answer,just to illustrate the moronic response by yourself,to what was a reasonable statement:-

"It can be seen that the E.U's economy is currently, despite project fear, still marginally ahead of europe & is, to quote your own words, still "fairly healthy"."

That is currently a fact, it is not a statement about the future for obvious reasons,of which I suggested that the U.K will indeed 'prosper' somewhat better than the E.U, giving my ideas as to why.

Obviously, you have no counter-argument, so you resort to moronic comments about singular misplaced words in one sentence, I think you need to see a shrink, because I have no intention of continuing conversations with someone that has nothing to contribute positively to the debate on the thread. :moron:


Never before in the history of man, have so many words meant so little to so few. :)

:moron: Learn to read and write coherent replies.

You're completely incapable of replying coherently to a single point made anywhere in this thread thus far. I suggest that comparing whatever passes for your brain, to a quantum dot would be a sleight... to quantum dots. :moron:
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