There is something funny in the Kingdom of Denmark - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15039311
For those of you who are sick and tired of the dreary old dudes residing among the damp walls of Westminster on their grimy benches with all their hate-filled drivel, you may want to meet the joyful young men and women of the Parliament in Copenhagen.

Danish Prime Minister has a laughing fit

Apparently, the joy was about the purchase of 4 elephants from a circus which included an extra camel that could not be separated because it was the elephants best friend. It is not known if the anti-immigration Dansk Folkeparti opposed this "family reunion" because the camel's name is Ali.

But the Dutch are even better, they only have to open their mouth to be funny:

Hét Beste Van Kees van der Staaij: Beeldspraak, humor en schilderijen
#15039381
:D The Dutch and others; many on here too..

I was watching Verhofstadt wipe the floor with Brexikarzi-tards in the EU parliament. They're so much mote witty (and nicer) on da Continent.

Was watching the masterful Andriukaitis on a cancer debate in the Europarl as well. They're excellently informed, detail orientated politicians. Not moronic amateurs who failed in business.

You are correct, the difference is night and day.
#15039667
Atlantis wrote:For those of you who are sick and tired of the dreary old dudes residing among the damp walls of Westminster on their grimy benches with all their hate-filled drivel, you may want to meet the joyful young men and women of the Parliament in Copenhagen.


Denmark is a country where the ruling social democrats try to outdo the right-wing populists when it comes to anti-immigration policies. I guess that's why they're all so joyful in Copenhagen.

They sure make the old dudes in Westminster look like puppies.
#15039672
Atlantis wrote:That's how they won the elections. What can you do in times like these?


Let's all go to hell in a handbasket together and not fight it...yay? It's a shame that populism is taking hold in Europe, but it's um, meant to be fought... simply acquiescing & aping should not be the default path.

Just my opinion...
#15039734
Most people fleeing from Africa, Mid-East and other parts of Asia are not running away from genocide, political or religious or ethnic persecution (although there are many of those as well). Lack of opportunities in poor countries is the major contributor of global migration patterns, same as it always has been.

The world changes beneath our feet and we must all change with it. Global migration will not decrease over the coming decades but rather the past decade is only the prelude of things to come. We need to openly and honestly state this fact. We need to make preparations for it, how much can be done and in what manner.

There is only one way of beating the populists at this game and that is to lessen people's fear of an uncertain future.
#15039736
@MadMonk, in their eagerness to be politically correct and to spin the narrative of the good immigrant, the liberal left has deliberately overlooked the problems associated with unchecked migration. The rise of the populist right has served as a corrective in the democratic process. In Europe, it was the hardliners from the Visegrad 4 that closed the Balkan route and put an end to the migrant crisis of 2015. Western governments didn't have the guts to take tough actions. It's like in Bertold Brecht's theater play The Good Person of Szechwan, in which a prostitute tries to always do good. When she is exploited by her neighbors, she has to invent an alter ego who appears once in a while to prevent the exploitation.

The tide is already turning. The right-wing populists have been thrown out of government in Italy and Austria, now it's the turn for our friends in the UK and the US to do their bit.
#15039741
Rugoz wrote:Denmark is a country where the ruling social democrats try to outdo the right-wing populists when it comes to anti-immigration policies. I guess that's why they're all so joyful in Copenhagen.

They sure make the old dudes in Westminster look like puppies.



But what is wrong with that? It is no different in Australia. Prudence is important when it comes to immigration. Is Switzerland any different?

It is only those countries that insist on being morally superior to everyone else (eg: Sweden), that have big problems with immigration.
#15039758
Atlantis wrote:That's how they won the elections. What can you do in times like these?


Why copying the populist right isn’t going to save the left
Social democratic parties have been losing ground for more than two decades – but pandering to rightwing anxieties about immigration is not the solution.

Last paragraph:
To regain relevance in the 21st century, social democracy has to go beyond appeals to populism – in both its liberal and left forms. The surprising successes of Jeremy Corbyn in the UK and Bernie Sanders in the US have already shown that there is an appetite for a revival of social democracy.

But before social democracy can be rejuvenated and made ready for the 21st century, it has to come to terms with its own role within the political model the populist radical right now so openly defends. While social democracy never openly defended white supremacy, its political system, and welfare state, was built upon a social system that preferred white native workers over non-white “guest workers” – and embraced the patriarchal dictates of single-income male-dominated family life. While social democratic parties, and trade unions, were quick to appeal to non-white workers, they did not fundamentally change their basic models.

Social democracy needs to reassert its ideals in a way that is inclusive of all workers. It should return to the theory rather than the practice of European social democracy – an egalitarian ideology based on solidarity with all socially weaker groups and individuals, irrespective of class, race, or sexuality. In the early 21st century, throughout western Europe, a growing percentage of the shrinking working class will be female and non-white (or of immigrant descent).

Moreover, by today’s standards, the traditional factory worker has a relatively privileged position, a well-protected and well-rewarded permanent job. In a world of neoliberal globalisation, not only are many of these classic working class positions outsourced to poorer countries, they are replaced by precarious positions that lack protection and security. It is the great challenge of social democracy in the 21st century to find a way to integrate the so-called “precariat” into a broader movement for economic and social justice. Whether this can still be done under the traditional header of “the working class” is of secondary concern. What is more important is that the identity is built on socioeconomic interest rather than ethno-national identity.

It is important to stress that what we are facing at the moment is a crisis of social democratic parties – not a crisis of social democratic ideals. It might seem delusional to make this claim at a time of seemingly never-ending electoral defeats of social democratic parties, but social democracy is alive and well. In fact, I cannot remember another period in my adult life where there is such a vibrant debate on the future of social democracy. To be fair, this debate is, ironically, almost exclusively in the US, and under the mostly erroneous term “democratic socialism”, but it is raging, and not just in the traditional progressive “salons”.

Many traditional social democratic policies are supported by the majority of the populations in Europe and North America. A recent OECD study, for example, found that a majority across all 21 member states support higher taxes for the rich to support the poor. More than half of the people want their government to ensure better pensions (54%), while almost half feel the same with regard to better healthcare (48%). More than one-third (37%) even support a guaranteed basic income benefit.
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And yet social democratic parties continue to lose electoral support, and the welfare state – an institutional expression of many of these policies – is consistently dismantled. This is because policies such as higher taxes for the rich and a strong welfare state are grounded in a social democratic ideology, which has lost its ideological hegemony to neoliberalism since the 1980s.

Neoliberalism is not just an economic system, but also an ideology, which has fundamentally transformed the way people see politics. In fact, one could argue that neoliberalism has been more successful as an ideological project than an economic programme. Active citizens have become passive customers, who consider the public sector an inefficient alternative to the private sector – and regard competition, between firms or individuals, as the best model for an ideal society.

Consequently, before there can be any electoral revival of social democratic parties, social democrats need to challenge the assumptions of the neoliberal society, and re-establish their own ideas of egalitarianism and solidarity as the new common sense. As the Italian Marxist Antonio Gramsci explained almost a century ago, political success can only come after cultural hegemony is established. Only when people support the underlying values of social democracy can parties successfully campaign on social democratic policies. Moreover, without broad support for key social democratic values, even popular policies can easily be defeated.
‘We the people’: the battle to define populism
Read more

The project of re-establishing the cultural hegemony of social democratic ideas is going to require the mobilisation of people outside of the existing political parties, including the social democratic ones. In most countries, these parties are anyway run by people who joined during the height of the third way, which they erroneously consider to be the height of “real” social democracy. Similarly, ideological rejuvenation should happen in collaboration with, but independent from, Green and “radical left” parties, which have overlapping but fundamentally different ideological projects.

The revival of social democracy will require a new cultural and political infrastructure, centred, at first, outside of electoral politics. It should include the trade unions, which, despite weakened membership and power, still have better connections to working people. It should include progressive minority organisations, particularly those focused on socioeconomic concerns, and new grassroots organisations, rooted in local communities.

In short, reviving social democracy will require a new social democratic movement – one that is bigger, bolder and more energetic than the existing parties.
#15039761
Beren wrote:It was rather Merkel and Erdogan.

Angela Merkel backs deal offering Turkey up to €3bn to tighten its borders


It was both. But the EU cannot rely on Erdogan to control its borders. Or else it would become hostage to Erdogan's whims and dubious ambitions. Preventing the free passage to the North inside Europe is the only effective way of managing the uncontrolled flow of migrants.

Rugoz wrote:I don't have a problem with right-wing populism in general. It seems you neither, as long as it isn't directed against your beloved empire.


I do have a problem with right-wing populism, but I'll accept that they are part of the democratic process. I'll fight them to the end, but I will defend their democratic rights.

The EU is the only thing that protects us from imperialism.
#15039764
Atlantis wrote:It was both. But the EU cannot rely on Erdogan to control its borders. Or else it would become hostage to Erdogan's whims and dubious ambitions. Preventing the free passage to the North inside Europe is the only effective way of managing the uncontrolled flow of migrants.

Sorry Atlantis, but the V4 are useless even in that regard. Orbán's (in)famous fence along the border with Serbia could only deter or divert deer unfortunately, only the cruel treatment of migrants and refugees by the Hungarian authorities could matter something.
#15039765
Beren wrote:Sorry Atlantis, but the V4 are useless even in that regard. Orbán's (in)famous fence along the border with Serbia could only deter or divert deer unfortunately, only the cruel treatment of migrants and refugees by the Hungarian authorities could matter something.


I was talking about Macedonia.
#15039792
@Reichstraten That article was rather confused. Immigration is neoliberal. The whole idea is to create economic growth through population increase. If there isn’t a natural population increase, then immigration provides the population growth.

The problem with the social democratic parties is that they refuse to recognise that their policies in the last 40 years have been serving neoliberalism as it’s moral justification. What the author argues is that they should do more of the same and yet expect a different result.

Social democrats need to come up with new ideas. Think about this: global population is predicted to peak around the end of the century. Then population’s will start a steady decline.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/06/17/worlds-population-is-projected-to-nearly-stop-growing-by-the-end-of-the-century/

So how will the global economy cope with a shrinking economy when there is no external population of immigrants to drive expansion? The problem has to be addressed at some point.

Back to the article, the author discusses the declining size of the working class, outsourcing manufacturing to low labour cost regions, and that the shrinking work class is expected to be women and immigrants. But isn’t the problem that the productive base is shrinking due to globalisation? Rather than offer a solution, the author argues for equality for everyone, but especially for those who are more equal in the author’s mind. In effect there is no solution, just an acceptance of growth through immigration. Again, social democrats basically accept neoliberalism in substance and only critique it rhetorically.

Maybe they could start coming up with ideas about how industry could increase productivity without using developing world wages? Or ideas addressing the structural inequality between regions by tackling authoritarian governments who benefit from low wage economies and keep unions under the thumb? At some point in the future, a growth model based on something other than population increase must be devised. Any new ideas on these subjects would be interesting.

But they won’t come up with new ideas because they are off the educated class who profits from the way things are. Their real dilemma is how to convince others of their relevance and thus lay claim to a portion of society’s surplus. They will continue be to support neoliberalism in practice while pretending to offer an alternative. I think the author’s concern for political hegemony is telling. Social democrats are just state dependent elites trying to preserve their power.
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