late wrote:Erdogan is an autocrat that severely degraded democracy in Turkey. Because things are not going well, in Turkey, he needs to distract his people.
Invading Syria plays well with his base. Turkey has revanchist claims with respect to the areas in Syria where Turkmen live. His base also shares his bigotry against Kurds. Since the Kurds no longer have American support, he will get to have some military victories, for a while.
Erdogan is politically a populist chameleon having autocratic tendencies, there is no question about that. And his Syrian policies since the onset of Syrian civil war is mostly nothing but failure upon failure, stupidity upon stupidity.
It is also true that he hopped in the nationalist bandwagon since 2015's summer for his political survival.
That said, his cross border operations towards Al-Bab first, Afrin later, and now Tel Abiad-Rasulayn region had and has broad-spectrum support from perhaps 90% of the Turkish population for a simple reason: we want to be safe and secure. A replica of what had happened in Northern Iraq 30 years ago cannot be allowed. We cannot suffer the consequences of another terrorist nest created just outside our borders. Period.
late wrote:Slaughtering Kurdish civilians will create terrorism. If you want to end terrorism, you need to come to terms. You don't do that with guns, unless we're talking genocide or mass slaughter.
What makes you think Turks are out there to slaughter Kurds. If you look at the timeline Tel Abiad and Rasulayn operations on map, it's classical pincer style sieges , i.e. one exit route is intentionally left open for the armed militants to leave as soon as they realize their positions are untenable. That reduces the possibility of devastating street battles in dense population centers, thus minimizes the occurrence of unnecessary civilian deaths.
That is quite different from what Assad regime did in Aleppo, what Iraqis did in Mosul or what PKK+USA did in Raqqa. These towns are still in ruins. Yet, Afrin captured from PKK by Turks with the same pincer style siege remained intact.
late wrote:Nice spin, tho, better than what we usually see here.
In my post, I offered nothing but veritable facts. In this age of post-truth, facts might be less popular than selective perceptions and ideological comfort zones, I totally understand that. Of course, my understanding of that does not necessitate my respect. In other words, I don't give a shit.
rugoz wrote:Depends on their goals and grievances.
Translation: One man's terrorist can be another man's freedom fighter.
I think not.
rugoz wrote:France is in Mali at the invitation of the democratically elected government. Nobody has asked Turkey to get into Syria, in fact everybody opposes it.
France..... In Mali.... Invitation..... By democratically elected government....
Did the democratically elected government of Syria invite France to join Americans to "provide security" in northeastern Syria?
Or did the democratically elected government Yemen invite French pilots to hop in Saudi jets and bring death and destruction to Yemeni people?
Perhaps democratically elected government of Libya asked France to arm and nurture warlord Haftar, so he can topple the democratically elected government of Libya.
Atlantis wrote:There can be no doubt that Turkey fueled the proxy war in Syria and that Turkey supports all kinds of rebels and thugs including Al Qaeda and ISIS fighters to do its dirty work in Syria.
Yes, that was the original sin that brought us all to where we are.
But, remember Turkey was not all alone. She was barely tailgating USA, Europe and Saudis in their endeavor to topple Assad. They all left the theater somehow with washed clean hands. And, we are left with dealing the mess they left behind.
If Erdogan had turned away when Americans, Europeans and Saudis approached us with their "fantastic" plans to topple Assad, and had kept the border sealed for everybody except humanitarian aid crews and refugees, this bloody civil war would have ended years ago in a substantially less bloody manner.
Atlantis wrote: Terror is blind and Erdogan's Jihadist proxies will sooner or later turn against Turkey. If you have learned anything from the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan, as you claim, you should know that.
I totally concur.
Atlantis wrote:50 million Kurds in the ME and the diaspora aren't going to disappear into thin air. Turkish aggression and massacres of Kurds will eternalize the conflict. The only way to achieve security is for Turkey to make peace with the Kurds and allow them the autonomy they require. To let loose a bunch of hate-filled Jihadists and criminals on the population of Northern Syria is no way of achieving that.
Amasya Manifesto of 1919, which happens to be the official initiation of Turkish War of Independence against imperialist WW1 victors, says: "Only the will and resolution of the nation can save the independence of the nation.
the will and resolution of the nation...
Once Kurds have the will and resolution of having a separate country of their own, no power in this world, neither Turkey nor USA, can stop them. That simple. I have no doubt and no reservation about it.
Will I see it happening in my life time? Probably not.
And successive episodes of western interference of baiting Kurds with some illusions to induce them doing West's dirty job and then abandoning them, do Kurds no good.
It's not your place to instruct them when and how they should get a separate country for themselves.