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By snapdragon
#15042997
@Atlantis

Corbyn’s position was always once he was PM he would negotiate a better deal with the EU then hold a referendum. According to nonsense, he’s now supporting putting johnson’s Deal to a referendum, but I can’t find any confirmation of that, but I hope it’s true
By Rich
#15043004
If Boris pulls this off on Saturday it will be the most remarkable feat. Boris has achieved in 3 months what the Provisional IRA failed to in 27 years of violence. :lol: Personally I'm not bothered, but be under no illusion this is the back door creation of a United Ireland. This makes the fall of Singapore look like a heroic last ditch defence.

Instead of a Red, White and Blue Brexit we've got a Green, White and Orange.
By Presvias
#15043006
Well, it's all a load of utter tripe no matter what happens, we're in a worse off position than when we started.

And Brit remainers and brexiteers are navel gazing and could not give the slightest toss about anyone except themselves (as several here have openly acknowledged). I understand why the EU should just cut us off, like a gangrenous limb that can't be saved; at the same time obviously I don't want that. But TBH were I Juncker I'd say seriously, get lost and we'll see you in court for all the crap you've given us, you oafish germ, just go and do one and let us carry on our business... oh and expect maximum tariffs.
User avatar
By Beren
#15043007
The Guardian wrote:But if the prime minister loses, he will aim to call a snap general election – a request Labour would be reluctant to block for a third time, once a Brexit delay has been secured – and campaign on the basis of getting his deal done.

This must be the real strategy here. I wouldn't believe Johnson actually expects his deal to pass parliament without the DUP's support, which means he doesn't have the ERG's support as well. Within certain limits the more defeated his deal gets the better, he could claim then that parliament is completely dysfunctional and there should be a snap election, which would practically be a referendum on his deal, so the PM has already successfully defined the very central theme of the upcoming general election campaign.

Also, Juncker's extension bullshit has been completely trumpeted: Brexit extension unavoidable if MPs reject deal, says Merkel
By Presvias
#15043009
We're just making life more difficult for you lot when you're dealing with serious threats from Russia et al.

It's BS. Complete BS.

I feel deeply upset when I think of the really nice Polish folks I knew in London, wtf is going to become of them?? You get a lot of very nice homeless eastern europeans too that the racists like to slate. Fuck the racists and fuck this fucking govt... they're going to end up killing people when they get their leave to remain revoked and they're forcibly deported, penniless and with problems that won't be resolved back home.

No, it's not acceptable.. and I'm pissed off that POS Swinson for not working with Corbyn and the others, she should be booted out of her own party for that. G'Frankly, none of them have the right to call themselves parliamentarians, not one of them..
User avatar
By Beren
#15043013
Presvias wrote:I'm pissed off that POS Swinson for not working with Corbyn

As a matter of fact their positions on Brexit seem matched.
By Presvias
#15043016
Yeah, but he's an evil commie who wants to eat children and Dearlove, the MI6 Bond villain said so, so it must be true.
User avatar
By Beren
#15043021
Presvias wrote:Yeah, but he's an evil commie who wants to eat children and Dearlove, the MI6 Bond villain said so, so it must be true.

However, in my opinion they still cooperate with each other and actually harmonise their Brexit stances while the Conservatives are trying to marginalise the Brexit Party and push them down under 10%. The Lib Dems would support the Brexit strategy of a Corbyn cabinet, represented and executed by Keir Starmer, in the name of national interest, and would also support some of their social policies perhaps.
By Presvias
#15043035
Beren wrote:However, in my opinion they still cooperate with each other and actually harmonise their Brexit stances while the Conservatives are trying to marginalise the Brexit Party and push them down under 10%. The Lib Dems would support the Brexit strategy of a Corbyn cabinet, represented and executed by Keir Starmer, in the name of national interest, and would also support some of their social policies perhaps.


Well, you already ruled this out earlier when you said yourself that Corbyn's not gonna step aside and she'll never support him.

Unless I got that wrong and it wasn't you? Either way it's the truth (shrugs). Either her or Corbyn have to shift policies and neither want to. I thinkshe should personally.
User avatar
By Beren
#15043040
Presvias wrote:Well, you already ruled this out earlier when you said yourself that Corbyn's not gonna step aside and she'll never support him.

Unless I got that wrong and it wasn't you? Either way it's the truth (shrugs). Either her or Corbyn have to shift policies and neither want to. I thinkshe should personally.

It wasn't me, I guess.

Anyway, in my opinion all recent opposition parties would be ready to cooperate if they had a majority in parliament together.
By Rugoz
#15043044
snapdragon wrote:Corbyn’s position was always once he was PM he would negotiate a better deal with the EU then hold a referendum.


All this deal does is clarify the status of NI. There's no way Corbyn can negogiate a better deal on that.

Anybody who rejects the deal at this point wants either a hard Brexit or stop Brexit altogether.
By snapdragon
#15043051
We all know Corbyn's unicorns belong as much in cloud cuckoo land as the leave brigade's.

It's possible he's beginning to see that. I think Nonsense's claim comes from the fact many Labour MPs want Corbyn to support another referendum, but that's nothing new.

Tomorrow is likely to be very tense.

I shall be marching for a people's vote, but I shan't be gluing myself to a tube train. Morons.
User avatar
By Beren
#15043062
Rugoz wrote:All this deal does is clarify the status of NI. There's no way Corbyn can negogiate a better deal on that.

Anybody who rejects the deal at this point wants either a hard Brexit or stop Brexit altogether.

You mean no-deal Brexit, don't you? This deal followed by an FTA between the UK and the EU means hard Brexit too. Their relationship would be CETA+ basically, which is hard Brexit. On the other hand Labour argue for a soft Brexit or Remain while the Lib Dems are arguing for Remain.
By Rugoz
#15043088
Beren wrote:You mean no-deal Brexit, don't you? This deal followed by an FTA between the UK and the EU means hard Brexit too. Their relationship would be CETA+ basically, which is hard Brexit. On the other hand Labour argue for a soft Brexit or Remain while the Lib Dems are arguing for Remain.


I don't know what you mean, this deal is about NI. What comes after the withdrawal agreement has yet to be specified. It can be anything.
User avatar
By Nonsense
#15043111
snapdragon wrote:We all know Corbyn's unicorns belong as much in cloud cuckoo land as the leave brigade's.

It's possible he's beginning to see that. I think Nonsense's claim comes from the fact many Labour MPs want Corbyn to support another referendum, but that's nothing new.

Tomorrow is likely to be very tense.

I shall be marching for a people's vote, but I shan't be gluing myself to a tube train. Morons.



The nonsense about a second referendum, or a 'Final Say' referendum, is just a ruse by CORBYN to avoid a general election, in which the manifesto would have to reflect Labour's treacherously dishonest position of denying the referendum result, in contravention of it's last manifesto pledge to implement the result.

In that election, CORBYN would have to explain the referendum question, the options of 'remain' or 'leave', for which those questions were answered in 2016 & that was the Final Say by the public on the issue.
Labour know that, were they to include a second referendum in the next election manifesto, they would be slaughtered in the election, a just 'reward' for their treachery.
If CORBYN thinks the Labour Party will win an election, based on a repeat set of questions already answered, then he is completely off his trolley.

One of Saturday's options in parliament, is for a 'Final Say' on the deal, that is more nonsense, the voters had their say, by instructing the two willing main parties to implement the result, that doesn't require a repeat or second referendum.
Labour supports it, because, if the questions include a no to the deal, then they can say that we ought to have another referendum, well no, it doesn't follow, because the W.A 'deal' is a separate question to the referendum options of 'leave' or 'remain' which have been answered already.

As I say, CORBYN & Co, are as dishonest as the day is long, they do not want us to leave, they also will not honour their pledge to implement the referendum result.
The sooner the election is called the better, because, for Labour, not only are they continually digging in the hole that they created for themselves, they are now engaged in employing a fleet of JCB's to do the job for them.

As for an extension, the French President,, MACRON, has declared his opposition to any further extension should it not get passed by parliament.

On a side not: Whenever I turn on the television news channel, the presenters reporting on the topic of europe across the road from parliament, are constantly subjected to the vocal interruptions of a sub-species of homo sapiens, obviously of the CORBYN variety.
User avatar
By ingliz
#15043164
It looks like Boris will have to dig that ditch.

"this House has considered the matter but withholds approval unless and until implementing legislation is passed".

Letwin Amendment.


:lol:
User avatar
By Beren
#15043170
Rugoz wrote:I don't know what you mean, this deal is about NI. What comes after the withdrawal agreement has yet to be specified. It can be anything.

It can be anything in theory, however, in practice the Tories refuse to be in the EEA or in a customs union with the EU and they only want an FTA with the EU, which means a hard Brexit. So it doesn't depend on the acceptance or the refusal of this deal whether there will be a hard Brexit, it actually depends on whether what government is in place, so refusing this deal doesn't mean someone wants either a hard Brexit or no Brexit.
User avatar
By marlon
#15043261
Of course, the duplicity by remoaners/remainers is they would never want a second referendum if they had won. Any attempt by leave voters to have a second referendum would be cried out. I hasten to add - I would never seek a second referendum if remainers had won... I knew the referendum criteria and I respect democracy. They do not.
User avatar
By Ter
#15043271
We as MPs need to come together to get Brexit done – and move on

Pride needs to be swallowed and colleagues of all stripes need to vote for a deal on Saturday

Last month, we came together with colleagues across the house to find a middle ground between the extremes of no deal and a second referendum. Our mission was to give a voice to the silent majority – both in parliament and across the country – a voice to those who respect the result of the referendum, and who want us to leave with a deal and move on.

When our constituents tell us they are fed up of politics, and tired of Brexit, we can understand where they are coming from. They tell us we are focused on the wrong things, our priorities are all wrong, and that the issues they care about have been cast aside by the Brexit distraction.

Switching on the news, it’s easy to think that MPs spend all their time fighting and disagreeing with each other. But quietly, in the background, many of us have clung to the things that unite us – the things that will matter long after Brexit has been resolved.

That’s why we have decided to write together the day before this historic sitting – not just as a proof that MPs of different stripes can work together, but to implore our colleagues to use this unique chance to help us move on, and get back to helping our constituents.

A no-deal Brexit will risk their prosperity, and a second referendum will only deepen the schism of the past three years. Pride needs to be swallowed on both sides, and clear heads must prevail.

The risk of letting this final shot at a deal slip through our fingers is too great. Our collective hope rests on brave Labour MPs, and indeed others, who can see that.

We consider ourselves to be normal women, working hard for our constituencies. We can’t stand the shouting and the division, and want to return to a politics that remembers the things we have in common with one another. A parliament that extends a hand to the workers, that builds shelter for the homeless, that does more than ever for our environment, and lets our kids grow up on safe streets.

Far from being ashamed of relying on one another, as MPs from opposite sides we recognise that it is imperative we move on, together. It’s the only way we can rebuild our politics, and unite the country. We hope all MPs will come together on Saturday for the good of their constituents, and vote for a deal.

Melanie Onn is the Labour MP for Great Grimsby
Victoria Prentis, is the Tory MP for Banbury and North Oxfordshire

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... nd-move-on
User avatar
By BeesKnee5
#15043279
This deal doesn't prevent no deal, it just delays the threat until next December.
The moving of all the commitments to the political declaration means they have no weight.
The arrangement down the Irish sea will become a permanent fixture.

But,
This is still Boris' game, go into the election as the man who delivered or the man who was stopped by the enemy. Either way it's all about him winning an election, he threw soft Brexit Tories under the bus, now he's thrown the DUP under, who will be next? I suspect it will be the ERG.
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