Evo Morales Gets Bounced; Seeks Asylum in Mexico - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Political issues and parties from Mexico to Argentina.

Moderator: PoFo Latin America Mods

Forum rules: No one line posts please. This is an international political discussion forum, so please post in English only.
#15047993
I saw this earlier today and it brought a little smile, but I'm surprised nobody has brought it up here. Morales was the socialist leader of Bolivia.

Evo Morales Finally Went Too Far for Bolivia
Yascha Mounk wrote:Like many populists on both the left and the right, Morales claimed to wield power in the name of the people. But after weeks of mass protests in La Paz and other Bolivian cities, and the rapid crumbling of his support both within law enforcement and his own political party, it was his loss of legitimacy among the majority of his own countrymen that forced Morales to resign yesterday.

You can bet your last dollar that this is what the Democrats hope to achieve with their impeachment show, except it's not going to work because Trump really is popular with his base.

Evo Morales leaves Bolivia to take asylum in Mexico
MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - Bolivia’s former president, Evo Morales, is flying to Mexico, where he has been granted asylum, Mexico’s top diplomat said on Monday night, as unrest shook the South American nation.

Not just losing power, but getting run out of town too.

The Latest: Morales says he's leaving Bolivia for Mexico
U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders is raising concerns about the Bolivian military's involvement in the resignation of President Evo Morales.

Morales resigned Sunday after Bolivia's military chief called on him to quit after weeks of protests over his disputed victory in the Oct. 20 presidential election. The general spoke a few hours after the release of an Organization of American States audit that reported irregularities in the vote count.

Interesting. I wonder if this is something they will try after Trump wins in 2020. It wouldn't surprise me if they try to get military officer to ask him to resign this week.

At any rate, in the bigger picture it is another socialist who has fallen.
#15048001
Rancid wrote:What can we say. Populist leaders do a shit job.

Well, that's not why he was bounced. He was bounced for stacking the election. He was unpopular and everyone knew it.

That seems to be the case in Venezuela, but the army is behind Maduro.
#15048024
Morales has left for Mexico.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... ith-energy

A senior US official said that Washington did not consider Morales resignation and departure to constitute a coup. “All these events clearly show is the Bolivian people have simply had enough of a government ignoring the will of its voters,” the official said.


Oh, suuuuuuuure ! Also, Iraq has weapons of mass destruction.
#15048029
Rugoz wrote:Morales should not even have been allowed to run:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Boli ... referendum

Now he even had to rig an illegitimate election. :lol:

The election was legal, since the Bolivian Supreme Court abolished term limits before the election. I can understand why people were not happy about it, however.

What a pathetic shithead.

The army chief publicly called on Morales to resign, which is what prompted him to reign and then flee the country. He clearly felt coerced by the army to do so. And, given Bolivian history, it is hardly surprising that he felt that way. The army has intervened in the political process and effectively ousted the elected president. This constitutes a coup, in my opinion.
#15048030
Potemkin wrote:The election was legal, since the Bolivian Supreme Court abolished term limits before the election. I can understand why people were not happy about it, however.


The Supreme Court was stacked with Morales' lackeys who somehow came to the conclusion the two term limit violates Morales' human rights :lol:

Potemkin wrote:The army chief publicly called on Morales to resign, which is what prompted him to reign and then flee the country. He clearly felt coerced by the army to do so. And, given Bolivian history, it is hardly surprising that he felt that way. The army has intervened in the political process and effectively ousted the elected president. This constitutes a coup, in my opinion.


You can call it a coup if you like, I don't care. When those in power blatantly violate the democratic order, it's up to everybody else to restore it by whatever means necessary. AFAIK Corbyn not only calls it a coup, he's supportive of Morales.
#15048032
Beren wrote:Corbyn says it's a coup ---> What apathetic shithead ---> Corbyn turns out to beright ---> Call it a coup if you like, he's still a shithead

:lol:


Read his bloody tweet you fool:



I quote:

I condemn this coup against the Bolivian people and stand with them for democracy


Like WTF? He's definitely a pathetic shithead.
#15048052
Beren wrote:Since you're a Johnson supporter it's like you've suffered brain damage.


Johnson supporter, LoL.

I don't give a shit about Johnson, I just didn't buy into all the bullshit that was brought up against him (in retrospective I was right).

Corbyn on the other hand is sucking up to another left-wing wanna-be dictator. Simply pathetic.
#15048061
I think the whole thing with Evo Morales is about the liberals being upset that their models of neo-liberalism has had a populist backlash.

And that people need stable forms of government that are not about authoritarian regimes but about a more balanced approach for power.

It is problematic when people think that the Left in Latin America has to be taken down because they are dysfunctional. No one mentions the obvious. Why did socialists who have Indigenous faces and look like the people they rule over are so hated by elites and liberals? Not to mention right wing politicians?

I think the future of politics in Latin America has to be about balanced leadership and well thought out planning.

But that presumes that the military in a country is not going to be using violence to take over civil government.

The liberal pro corporate people have a deep hatred of populist Leftism.

But Evo should have not changed the term limits and respected the original constitution. I happen to think too many years in power is corrupting even for some who started out as simple union organizers or peasant worker organization politicians.

Got to check your own power. Or suffer the consequences.

Seek balance in all things.

It doesn't surprise me he is Mexico.

I know the history of that.

Here is his resignation speech. Sorry if you can't understand it. The English versions I could not find in Mexico for some reason...weird.



He talks about the military saying they will kill his family off if he doesn't leave power.



The Mexican gov't is saying the gov't of Morales asked AMLO to let him go and get him in Peru. The Mexican gov't got authorization to get Morales to Mexico. The Peruvian situation was strange. They had to talk to Argentina's leader and then Paraguay, and it was a very interesting series of strange events I would say. Hmmm. Looks like there was a fear of real assassination attempts in Peru by Bolivian gov't military personnel. Peru, Paraguay, Argentina and Mexico....very very interesting....what they are not saying is very very telling.

It is interesting what they DON'T say or mention. That says a lot more in Mexican culture than what is actually said. What is not said is what is the truth of it.
Last edited by Tainari88 on 12 Nov 2019 16:15, edited 1 time in total.
#15048067
Tainari88 wrote:I think the whole thing with Evo Morales is about the liberals being upset that their models of neo-liberalism has had a populist backlash.

And that people need stable forms of government that are not about authoritarian regimes but about a more balanced approach for power.

It is problematic when people think that the Left in Latin America has to be taken down because they are dysfunctional. No one mentions the obvious. Why did socialists who have Indigenous faces and look like the people they rule over are so hated by elites and liberals? Not to mention right wing politicians?

I think the future of politics in Latin America has to be about balanced leadership and well thought out planning.

But that presumes that the military in a country is not going to be using violence to take over civil government.

The liberal pro corporate people have a deep hatred of populist Leftism.

But Evo should have not changed the term limits and respected the original constitution. I happen to think too many years in power is corrupting even for some who started out as simple union organizers or peasant worker organization politicians.

Got to check your own power. Or suffer the consequences.

Seek balance in all things.

This is true although it misses the point a bit. As I mentioned in Maduro thread that there is a problem with left leaders in South America. Most right wing leaders or centrists agree to follow the democratic process while the left does not. It's obviously not a 100 percent situation in all cases but when the left wins then centre or right steps aside or just finish their terms whatever it might be by law. While the left violates term limits, doesn't step aside when they are doing badly or loose elections. So what is the modern right/centre supposed to do?

In this sense Morales did a great and the right thing. As much shit as he will get, he was actually a pretty competent leader even until the end. He wasn't a zaelot of the left who doesn't compromise, doesn't admit mistakes and clings to power forever. The cheating is irrelevant honestly. It doesn't mean that he didn't do any mistakes though that made him unpopular.
#15048069
I'm sure it's purely coincidental that the coup happened just days after the Bolivian government cancelled a deal with a German lithium mining corporation because the local indigenous population wasn't benefiting enough from it.

It's also very reassuring that various dead-eyed rogues in the Trump administration have been on hand to confirm that it definitely wasn't a coup and that actually, a right-wing military junta is the most democratic thing that can happen.

JohnRawls wrote:Most right wing leaders or centrists agree to follow the democratic process while the left does not.

:lol:
Last edited by Heisenberg on 12 Nov 2019 16:30, edited 1 time in total.
#15048071
JohnRawls wrote:This is true although it misses the point a bit. As I mentioned in Maduro thread that there is a problem with left leaders in South America. Most right wing leaders or centrists agree to follow the democratic process while the left does not. It's obviously not a 100 percent situation in all cases but when the left wins then centre or right steps aside or just finish their terms whatever it might be by law. While the left violates term limits, doesn't step aside when they are doing badly or loose elections. So what is the modern right/centre supposed to do?

In this sense Morales did a great and the right thing. As much shit as he will get, he was actually a pretty competent leader even until the end. He wasn't a zaelot of the left who doesn't compromise, doesn't admit mistakes and clings to power forever. The cheating is irrelevant honestly. It doesn't mean that he didn't do any mistakes though that made him unpopular.


You don't get it John Rawls. I am not surprised you don't get it.

Do you know how many poor people without an education, decent wages, exploitation, no welfare, no hope live in Latin America? A lot.

The history of Latin America is about colonialism and elites who sell out the natural resources to first world banks and powers and sellout their own nations in order to live well. They use blood and intimidation tactics in order to hold on to power.

The right and the center don't get any real opposition to their power from the ones running the show from OUTSIDE of Latin America. The hard LEFT gets the fury of the thing completely. Why? Because the hard LEFT in Latin America is the only political platform that is willing to fight hard for the working class. The issue then becomes can they survive the elites in their own nation? The super powerful elites in multinational corporations from the Imperial nations? And the military powers who many times are filled with the elite in a country or has many of their people embedded there?

It is not about the Left being power drunk psychos trying to hold on to power JohnRawls....it is about the many who profit from the misery of the humblest people in these nations because the reason they are wealthy is by making sure those people don't improve in life.

I happen to think that the dynamics are changing.

JohnRawls, what the issue is that many don't understand is that for you to be able to make something hard to do like real socialism that is humanist and not authoritarian in the world? Is that the people who oppose you have enough of a conscience to not use violence and intimidation to overtake popular leaders because the people will it.

No one really respects the realities that democracy is a fragile thing. And can be destroyed and to get it to function you got to realize that you have to stop believing that some are superior and others are inferior. If you hold on to that bullshit thing? You won't ever believe in democracy. Most people in the world are people who never got educations, never got high paying stable jobs, never got really any kind of real security. They place their faith in the socialists, the communists and the LEFT....because the right and the moderates never DO THE JOB of defending the interests of the lower classes. They never defend the interests of those people JohnRawls.

Do the job of making a good life in their own nations. Do the job of dealing with the underclass already!! Don't live off of them.

It is not about the moderates stepping down JohnRawls. It is about the right and the moderates forcing a change via ballot box for the LEFT. Because the LEFT are the ones who keep shouting about equality.

If equality is not possible? And you hate it? You will have another popular wave and another popular wave, etc and another, and it is all from the hard left. The rest of the political spectrum doesn't care. They don't.

Deal with that issue or you will have another socialist wave, and another one in 10, 20 or 30 years. It won't stop. Especially in Latin America.

You are even getting the socialists in the USA with AOC and Bernie....because? The middle liberals and the moderates are sellouts who again, don't respond to the ones who don't see movement or improvement in their life circumstances.

You would think everyone would learn something now. They don't.

This is a very long thing that will take time and constant back and forth til their is finally an acceptance that populism is about large groups of people being upset that things are not working for them in their own nations. And that the lack of will to serve a democratic paradigm and catering to small elites won't work for the future.
#15048072
Heisenberg wrote:I'm sure it's purely coincidental that the coup happened just days after the Bolivian government cancelled a deal with a German lithium mining corporation because the local indigenous population wasn't benefiting enough from it.

It's also very reassuring that various dead-eyed rogues in the Trump administration have been on hand to confirm that it definitely wasn't a coup and that actually, a right-wing military junta is the most democratic thing that can happen.


:lol:


You can say that again Heisenberg! ;)
#15048104
Tainari88 wrote:You don't get it John Rawls. I am not surprised you don't get it.

Do you know how many poor people without an education, decent wages, exploitation, no welfare, no hope live in Latin America? A lot.

The history of Latin America is about colonialism and elites who sell out the natural resources to first world banks and powers and sellout their own nations in order to live well. They use blood and intimidation tactics in order to hold on to power.

The right and the center don't get any real opposition to their power from the ones running the show from OUTSIDE of Latin America. The hard LEFT gets the fury of the thing completely. Why? Because the hard LEFT in Latin America is the only political platform that is willing to fight hard for the working class. The issue then becomes can they survive the elites in their own nation? The super powerful elites in multinational corporations from the Imperial nations? And the military powers who many times are filled with the elite in a country or has many of their people embedded there?

It is not about the Left being power drunk psychos trying to hold on to power JohnRawls....it is about the many who profit from the misery of the humblest people in these nations because the reason they are wealthy is by making sure those people don't improve in life.

I happen to think that the dynamics are changing.

JohnRawls, what the issue is that many don't understand is that for you to be able to make something hard to do like real socialism that is humanist and not authoritarian in the world? Is that the people who oppose you have enough of a conscience to not use violence and intimidation to overtake popular leaders because the people will it.

No one really respects the realities that democracy is a fragile thing. And can be destroyed and to get it to function you got to realize that you have to stop believing that some are superior and others are inferior. If you hold on to that bullshit thing? You won't ever believe in democracy. Most people in the world are people who never got educations, never got high paying stable jobs, never got really any kind of real security. They place their faith in the socialists, the communists and the LEFT....because the right and the moderates never DO THE JOB of defending the interests of the lower classes. They never defend the interests of those people JohnRawls.

Do the job of making a good life in their own nations. Do the job of dealing with the underclass already!! Don't live off of them.

It is not about the moderates stepping down JohnRawls. It is about the right and the moderates forcing a change via ballot box for the LEFT. Because the LEFT are the ones who keep shouting about equality.

If equality is not possible? And you hate it? You will have another popular wave and another popular wave, etc and another, and it is all from the hard left. The rest of the political spectrum doesn't care. They don't.

Deal with that issue or you will have another socialist wave, and another one in 10, 20 or 30 years. It won't stop. Especially in Latin America.

You are even getting the socialists in the USA with AOC and Bernie....because? The middle liberals and the moderates are sellouts who again, don't respond to the ones who don't see movement or improvement in their life circumstances.

You would think everyone would learn something now. They don't.

This is a very long thing that will take time and constant back and forth til their is finally an acceptance that populism is about large groups of people being upset that things are not working for them in their own nations. And that the lack of will to serve a democratic paradigm and catering to small elites won't work for the future.


I actually think you are not understanding then. I am not saying that what the left does is bad. Fight for equality, fight for education, fight for indigenous rights etc. Those are good policies at its core but not all reforms and changes are positive when they are executed by humans. They have negative outcomes if its not correctly implemented or just unintended negative outcomes along with positive outcomes. That is just how life is. So when such things happen, the people get angry and want somebody else in charge.

An example of this is Moraleses fight for rights of indigenous people. Good idea at its core, right? The problem was that the people who didn't consider themselves indigenous people felt like racism is rising against them and not just indigenous people were being protected and cared for more. It doesn't mean that Morales did the wrong thing but it does mean that he might have done the right thing in a bit of a wrong way. Or at least didn't make sure that part of the population was not alienated. How to put it.... If you are an American then Republicans will not be happy if somebody implements some Democratic policies and visa versa. As a ruler of the country, you are not a Democrat or a Republican, you are a leader of a country who is supposed to tend to ALL and not just the group that voted for you. Managing that situation is perhaps an impossible task but that is just the reality of things.

So basically, if you are a leader of a country, you will eventually make mistakes.(Irrelevant of ideology) Those mistakes will translate in anger and vote against you or at the least for your opponent. Eventually you will find yourself in a situation when people will not support you. Yes, you might recover from it but that is a very large gamble. You are basically betting on your ability or your groups ability against the stability of your own country. I don't think that betting on your countries stability is sane. In Democracy you have elections, term limits, etc to fix this.

Morales made enough mistakes by the time he tried to cheat the election and overstep the term limits. So the things exploded.

I understand that hard right and hard left basically hate each other on South America but there needs to be some trust to prevent this from happening over and over and over again. Look at America. Obama created Obamacare. It was not perfect. But the Republicans did not repeal it and democracy prevailed. ( They had majority literally everywhere ). So in the same sense do not think that right wing forces will just scrap everything that Morales has done and at the same time left wing forces also will not scrap everything that the right has done.

The right was a bit more "tame" in this regard in recent history. ( Lets say since the end of the Cold War and again in South America). While left wing forces are totally out of wack regarding this. If things are going badly and you become unpopular then please let somebody else rule. If you think up some great ideas or your opponents make mistakes then the left will rule again basically otherwise you get what we have now: revolts, coups, instability, strife. Not just somebody who supports your ideology is a human being who might have good ideas on how to rule the country.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 8

@BigSteve The interesting thing to note is the […]

Trump, Oh my god !

That's the point I was trying to make, while thes[…]

Turn, turn, turn

Investigating whether Biden violated the Foreig[…]

As I said earlier, if the Secession of the Southe[…]