Top income brackets should be taxed at 99%. - Page 5 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15049618
late wrote:The incomes of the poor haven't changed much. But the number of parasites exploiting them has increased significantly.
This is a total BS statement. Rich people create their own wealth.


When I buy a book by a best selling author I transfer my money to the pocket of the author, but I gain much more in the pleasure I get from reading the book,. If the pleasure I receive is much greater than what i spend for the book. If the author gets rich because the author is providing an invaluable service.

When I buy a Mac Notebook I can operate my business 50 times more efficiently. I make more money due to the fact someone created the computer. The computer manufacturer gets rich and i make more money using the computer. That is wealth creation!
#15049628
B0ycey wrote:Humanity needs labor regardless of the skill level. What use is a great idea if you cannot make it materialise alone? Do you think the worker ant is considered any less to the colony because there are more of them than the solider ant?

Humans are the only creature that considers skill levels or intelligence paramount than work ethic. All other social creature do not do that and still feed society as a whole just fine.



So what? When Gates or Jobs (deceased) can perform everything on their own, then they do not exploit the surplus labor of their employees and can enjoy the entire profit and deservedly so with a clear conscious. If they need others to execute profit then you have to question why more should be given to an idea then manual labor when both skills were required for the thing to be made and the possibility of profit to materialise.


Well, you will have the robots soon B0ycey. AI, or Artificial Intelligence. They will step in and do the menial labor. The lumpen will be obsolete. Then Blackjack's genetic engineering will go in and splice in some instructions with oxidation of locii of the proteins in the instructions and a dumb Black low IQ man can be 're-programmed' to be a white genius. Voila...the world is better. Lol.

No, they need to seriously examine how to start structuring the economies of the many nations not doing well under capitalist systems that are underdeveloped. They need to question why people's wages have stagnated since the mid seventies in the USA as Stig dude that @late favors states...and figure out if they continue with that bullshit how long before it implodes?

No, it won't implode because a tiny chart with no explanation about the 0% poverty rate by 2050 is gospel truth and capitalism did it! And Jobs is a damn genius. Jobs also allowed his daughter and his ex girlfriend to be on welfare and live in poverty as he made huge amounts of money because he was about control and power....more than compassion and being responsible for other people in his life.

He was hated by a lot of ex employees for lack of ethics. People are complex. Jobs was also adopted and his Syrian bio father was an irresponsible man who never took responsibility for many things.

People are complex. Not simplistic. But there are a lot of people who think masses of people being lifted out of poverty worldwide and fighting the root causes of poverty and inequality is going to happen easily.

No, it won't. It is primarily a fight to the death about PRINCIPLES. Human principles and values. And how one emphasizes what is important in human beings.

You would be surprised how great things get in life when you have cooperation, and hard work, respect and dedication and sharing with others in this world. A whole lot of issues get solved. What is problematic are the selfish, the individualistic in the extreme, the ones attached to possessions and willing to do whatever to relationships because they want possessions and have the false belief that accumulation of wealth is power that lasts and human relationships are the things that betray you in this world. It is the opposite. The relationships are the seats of power and the possessions are worthless.

But who knows how long it will take the capitalists to respect that? Millenia? I don't think so.
#15049631
Julian658 wrote:
This is a total BS statement. Rich people create their own wealth.


When I buy a book by a best selling author I transfer my money to the pocket of the author, but I gain much more in the pleasure I get from reading the book,. If the pleasure I receive is much greater than what i spend for the book. If the author gets rich because the author is providing an invaluable service.

When I buy a Mac Notebook I can operate my business 50 times more efficiently. I make more money due to the fact someone created the computer. The computer manufacturer gets rich and i make more money using the computer. That is wealth creation!



"Rajan started with a hunch that magical rites, sacrificial rituals, and sacred values were not just relics of a pre-modern past, but actually woven right into the story of capitalism from the beginning...

Economists, despite their professed adherence to rationality, also continually presented economic forces as quasi-magical energies. Think of Smith’s famous invisible hand.."

I've posted the same chart twice just in this thread. It's been posted before. It belies the myth that a rising tide floats all boats. Too many are sinking.




https://evonomics.com/the-sacrificial-rites-of-capitalism-we-dont-talk-about/
#15049634
Tainari88 wrote:No, they need to seriously examine how to start structuring the economies of the many nations not doing well under capitalist systems that are underdeveloped. They need to question why people's wages have stagnated since the mid seventies in the USA as Stig dude that @late favors states...and figure out if they continue with that bullshit how long before it implodes?


I think you have it right. Capitalists are so fixated in maintaining the system that they will complain about the issues they can see it has with society and maintain something else is wrong/worse without proof or context. Socialism is more coercive. How the fuck have you just came up with that conclusion? The mere fact that the top 10% have more wealth than the 90% combined is all the proof anyone needs that the cards are stacked.

No, it won't implode because a tiny chart with no explanation about the 0% poverty rate by 2050 is gospel truth and capitalism did it!


The chart is about extreme poverty with a little bit of research. That is if you build a well in an African village and a school, those who live near it, even though they cannot afford to feed their families and rely on handouts are only classed as in poverty and not extreme poverty hence the surge down. Although if he thinks everyone will live like an American in 2050 he's in cuckoo land.
#15049643
late wrote:
I've posted the same chart twice just in this thread. It's been posted before. It belies the myth that a rising tide floats all boats. Too many are sinking.


https://evonomics.com/the-sacrificial-rites-of-capitalism-we-dont-talk-about/


Sinking boats? Relative to what? An Utopia? IN 2019 poor people in developed western capitalist nations are having an obesity epidemic due to excess calories. When in world history have you seen obese poor people? Historically the poor were supposed to be emaciated and cachectic.

The poor also have free smart phones and buy designer clothes with the welfare stipend. They often trade food stamps for booze and live in public housing free of charge. Nevertheless, they are at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder, I agree.

Compare these poor people to a middle class person in 1950 and these poor folks have the same standard of living if not better. The problem is that you guys always compare the current situation to an ideal utopia where everybody is equal. How many times do I have to say it: THERE IS NO EQUALITY.

The boast are not sinking; they are actually rising but you cannot tell because the yachts of the rich are out of sight. Are you comparing the plight of the poor to the billionaires?
#15049646
B0ycey wrote:I think you have it right. Capitalists are so fixated in maintaining the system that they will complain about the issues they can see it has with society and maintain something else is wrong/worse without proof or context. Socialism is more coercive. How the fuck have you just came up with that conclusion? The mere fact that the top 10% have more wealth than the 90% combined is all the proof anyone needs that the cards are stacked.


Tell me how billionaires oppressed you when you lived in the USA. Be specific.



The chart is about extreme poverty with a little bit of research. That is if you build a well in an African village and a school, those who live near it, even though they cannot afford to feed their families and rely on handouts are only classed as in poverty and not extreme poverty hence the surge down. Although if he thinks everyone will live like an American in 2050 he's in cuckoo land.


Actually, the original goal was 2030. The fact that poverty has been declining rapidly is unknown to most on the left. This is known as living in an echo chamber where they all tell each other what they want to hear 24/7. This leads to profound ignorance since they are never exposed to different point of views. And when presented with different point of views they yell insults.

“The global poverty rate is now lower than it has ever been in recorded history,” World Bank President Jim Yong Kim said.

“But if we are going to end poverty by 2030, we need much more investment, particularly in building human capital, to help promote the inclusive growth it will take to reach the remaining poor.”

Ending extreme poverty by 2030 is a key target among 17 ambitious global development goals agreed at the United Nations (U.N.) in 2015.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-glob ... SKCN1LZ2JL
#15049684
Julian658 wrote:
The poor also have free smart phones and buy designer clothes with the welfare stipend.

Compare these poor people to a middle class person in 1950 and these poor folks have the same standard of living if not better.





Go help just once in a soup kitchen. I dare you.

Now you've fallen to the point where you are simply making shit up. I was alive back then. You could raise a family, with 4 or 5 kids, on a blue collar salary.

I'm done. You are babbling.
#15049687
Julian658 wrote:The poor also have free smart phones and buy designer clothes with the welfare stipend.
Does this lie you tell yourself help you sleep at night? :eh:

I am sure you can provide a source to support this claim, right?
#15049693
Godstud wrote:Does this lie you tell yourself help you sleep at night? :eh:

I am sure you can provide a source to support this claim, right?

In America even the homeless have cell phones.

Image

Laptops too!
Image

Free Cell Phones for the Homeless

By the way they also get plastic syringes to inject drugs,but plastic straws are not allowed. The homeless are also allowed to pop in the street.
Image

Only in America bro!. This is the only thing that sometimes makes me wish for socialism. They would not put up with this crap! No pun intended.
#15049694
late wrote:Go help just once in a soup kitchen. I dare you.

Now you've fallen to the point where you are simply making shit up. I was alive back then. You could raise a family, with 4 or 5 kids, on a blue collar salary.

I'm done. You are babbling.


You guys don't take sarcasm very well. I don't disagree, blue collar wages were much better back them in relationship to the economy. But, that was another era.

BTW, in this era plumbers, electricians, and Heat and Air Conditioning guys make a pretty good living. However, they have to be smarter. They are probably smarter than the people that go to college to study liberal arts.
#15049695
His laptop and cellphone must be in his other clothes.
Image

That's not supporting your statement, @Julian658. That's just posting a pic of one guy who's homeless and probably with a mental illness.
#15049698
I just had a thought I'd like to share with you-all.

Adam Smith used the words 'rent' and 'rentier'.

I'd like to suggest that we change the word to 'tolls'.

To me, if you own a house you can charge rent to someone to live it it.

But, back in the day, hundreds of your ago, strong men would demand a toll to travel a road that had existed for 100 years already. Or, to use a river to float stuff up or down it. The toll taker had of course done nothing to create the river.

____________________ ______________________ _

I'm kind of out of touch these days because I retired to the other side of the world.
However, it seems to me, that rents have gone up a lot in the last 2 decades.
I think this has happened because the Fed. Res. did QE that forced cash into the economy at the top instead of the bottom {of the economy}. This lead to a spike in housing prices {also stock prices}, which led to a spike in rents to pay for the increase that the new owner had to pay to buy the place, which led to owners who owned before the spike and still own the place increasing their rents because they wanted to maximize their profits and the new market price let them.

If I'm full of BS, please tell me. Trolls need not reply. You know who you are.
#15049702
Godstud wrote:His laptop and cellphone must be in his other clothes.
Image

That's not supporting your statement, @Julian658. That's just posting a pic of one guy who's homeless and probably with a mental illness.

Go back to the post and click on an article. You missed it. In America there are many organizations that provide free cell phones for the homeless.
#15049703
@Julian658 This still doesn't give them food, shelter, or healthcare, and they are still poor. The only difference is now they can take pics of their shit living conditions and put them on FaceBook. :knife:
#15049708
Apologies for not reading through the entire thread, but the vibe seems to be that if some poor wretch who is barely recognisable as a human being and has a laptop or mobile/cell phone, then what are we worrying about? He is obviously happy.

Is that where we are?..
#15049710
Yes. A cellphone and a laptop given to you means you are no longer homeless or poor. Nevermind that you don't have good food to eat, no home, or healthcare. :roll:

Showing a guy with a laptop and then that he's forced to shit in the street(probably because no business would let him in to sue their toilet) doesn't work much to support your argument, @Julian658 .

Will he phone his other homeless friend and tell him about the lovely filth he's found one block over?
#15049714
That's sad. I'm not an outraged lefty, but I guess some things need shouting about. People shouldn't be allowed to live, or exist like that. I'm guessing those pics were from the US, the richest country on the planet! But there's worse poverty out there. Street kids living in sewers in Brazil, and the poverty in India should be an embarrassment to a government who spend $billions on nuclear weapons and a space programme. Somewhere, priorities have become very confused.
#15049718
Godstud wrote:@Julian658 This still doesn't give them food, shelter, or healthcare, and they are still poor. The only difference is now they can take pics of their shit living conditions and put them on FaceBook. :knife:



For the love of God! of course they are poor! And there are people that provides them with cell phones, clean plastic syringes, food, and shelter on cold nights. Most of the homeless are severe drug addicts or mentally ill. This is the ultimate dystopia in the midst of plentiness. As we speak the city of LA is building luxury apartments for these people. Do you honestly think that giving these people a home fixes the problem? Who is responsible for this? How come the problem of the homeless is more prevalent in the left wing cities of America? These men have a life with no meaning. That is why they are nihilistic. And you think that given them a free home will suddenly cure the nihilism?

What is your solution? It seems that the more they help the worse it gets. What is your solution?
#15049719
The usual solution to homelessness and poverty is to throw things like cell phones, laptops and cash at it. Obviously, that isn't the solution, as it usually only a temporary fix.

The answer is social programs that provide mental health treatment, affordable housing, raising the minimum wage, reform the criminal justice system, etc.

This, too....
Here are his 5 ways to fight poverty.
1. The people directly affected by the problems or issues of poverty in the community have to be actively and authentically participating in their efforts to fight poverty. This means that the affected people themselves will be the major participants of the intervention to fight poverty. Formal leaders need to be consulted, as well as those affected. Their worldview should be taken into consideration, and through facilitation, they become part of the process of addressing and resolving the issues they face.

2. Create an organized group within the community to help many people, rather than only a few individuals. Rather than working with individual persons, it is more effective to facilitate collective and organized actions to help strengthen and empower people in poverty through an organization. This means that it is not enough to provide assistance to individually affected persons alone, but through collective organization, each individual is developed and steps are taken to address their problems and other problems in the future.

3. The people affected need to identify the issues. It is more effective when issues and problems are identified by the people facing them. They begin to gain self-confidence and acquire capabilities in working together on simple problems. This means that their initial efforts and experiences can be used toward addressing more complex problems and issues. It is in identifying and acting on their initial simple issues or problems that the affected people gain self-confidence and the capability to identify other matters which need to be addressed. Though externally introduced projects can help some of poverty’s effects, without the people’s active involvement linking these projects with their own identified issues and problems, such projects will most likely not be sustained or maintained.

4. People in poverty need to understand that they can often address and solve their own issues. The affected people going through the process of fighting poverty should have a raised level of consciousness about their situation, and their own capabilities, in order to sustain their collective efforts and address future issues.

5. Fighting poverty takes time. The process of fighting poverty is not simple, especially since a deep personal transformation needs to take place in those affected. It takes time to empower and facilitate affected people so they can become actors of their own development.

https://outreach-international.org/blog ... t-poverty/
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