Divine decadence empowers fascists - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

The non-democratic state: Platonism, Fascism, Theocracy, Monarchy etc.
Forum rules: No one line posts please.
#15053114
The winner of eight academy awards, the 1972 musical Cabaret examined the social corruption that accompanied the Nazi rise to power.

Inside the Kit Kat Club of 1931 Berlin, American singer Sally Bowles (Liza Minnelli) celebrates "divine decadence" with songs like "Mein Herr," "Money, Money" and "Cabaret" while the impish emcee (Joel Grey) mocks the Nazis. Offstage, the promiscuous Bowles seduces gay Brian Roberts (Michael York) and both have intimate encounters with a rich playboy (Helmut Griem).

The sexual exploits come to an end as the playboy abandons both of them and Bowles aborts her baby with Roberts to pursue her singing career and carefree lifestyle.

The conventional liberal interpretation of Cabaret is that Bowles and her coterie of performers and lovers are creative free spirits who are bravely standing up against the brutish fascists. However, another interpretation is that the Kit Kat Club and its denizens represented all the filth, corruption and anarchy that plagued the Weimar Republic. The Germans gave power to Hitler to “restore morality.”

The true lesson of Cabaret, that decadence provokes fascism, has been lost on Hollywood because the cultural revolution that began in the mid-1960s seems unending as performers and producers “push the envelope” to bring new levels of depravity to the media. The pushback may bring fascism to America.
#15053157
Robert Urbanek wrote:The Germans gave power to Hitler to “restore morality.”


That would distort history. Decadence by itself had little effect. Apparently, as long as Weimar was prosperous--at least outwardly-- one "seldom heard of Hitler or the nazis except as the butt of jokes."

The true lesson of Cabaret, that decadence provokes fascism, has been lost on Hollywood because the cultural revolution that began in the mid-1960s seems unending as performers and producers “push the envelope” to bring new levels of depravity to the media. The pushback may bring fascism to America.


Na, just like in the reich, it'll take more--a lot more--like major crises, in the face of which democratic ineffectiveness can no longer be tolerated.
For many years, I've noted that Americans, steeped in ideological bs, never consider fascism an alternative to degeneracy, no matter how disgusting. The "pushback" sure is taking its sweet time, isn't it? How many years has it been since Deep Throat, about 50? ;) Even when faced with the decadence of present society, and all the evidence for the obsolescence of democracy, this society just can't seem to learn anything. Americans swing back and forth between the only (crap) alternatives they know--belief in nothing, or belief in nonsense. The antidote to decadence (anything goes, belief in nothing) is held to be religion (belief in nonsense). Holy joes point to decadence, and unsolved crises and say in effect this proves man isn't the answer, only the lord can save us. Absurd!! Decadence and crises have gotten out of control on account of the existing level of ideological stupidity.They can't be solved by reverting to an even lower level. Only dictatorship can straighten things out; moaning and praying to a mythical deity is even less effective than democratically elected politicians.
#15053171
The role of decadence in the rise of Hitler is well documented:

“Every kind of sexual perversion was catered to and hotels like the Excelsior and the Adlon hired ‘in house’ male and female prostitutes to entertain the guests. As things grew increasingly dire Berlin threw itself into an orgy of dancing, drinking, and pornography and prostitution with je m’en fous being the order of the day.”

"For most Berliners, the city itself “was a living hell.” It was these issues that “ultimately made Hitler’s rise to power possible.”

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2017/01/29/degenerate-art-before-and-after-nazi-germany-in-berlin/

While reactionary forces in the U.S. may be slow to gather strength, the rising anger in America suggests that something bad is brewing.

A reaction against the excesses of Western culture has also played a role in the rise of Jihadists and “Islamofascism.”
#15053174
But what about the sexual culture in the SA leadership? Why does Hitler always get a pass on this? Or is that something we're supposed to be celebrating now?
#15053176
Robert Urbanek wrote:
It was these issues that “ultimately made Hitler’s rise to power possible.”



The economy collapsed. You don't care who is screwing whom when you can't eat/
#15053234
late wrote:The economy collapsed. You don't care who is screwing whom when you can't eat/


Plato did say that extremes of liberty lead to extremes of authoritarianism, so you could say the rise of Hitler was in part a reaction to decadence. Still, it wasn't a decisive factor. The depression, particularly, and Versailles were.
#15053311
Rich wrote:But what about the sexual culture in the SA leadership? Why does Hitler always get a pass on this? Or is that something we're supposed to be celebrating now?


That became a moot point during June 30 to July 2, 1934, the “Night of the Long Knives,” when Hitler order the slaughter of SA leadership, including Ernst Rohm and scores of others.

Hitler named Viktor Lutze to replace Röhm as head of the SA. Hitler ordered him, as one prominent historian described it, to put an end to "homosexuality, debauchery, drunkenness, and high living" in the SA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives
#15053395
Robert Urbanek wrote:Hitler named Viktor Lutze to replace Röhm as head of the SA. Hitler ordered him, as one prominent historian described it, to put an end to "homosexuality, debauchery, drunkenness, and high living" in the SA.
[/url]



But as Shirer wrote, Hitler didn't really care about Rohm's homosexuality. When others criticized Rohm, Hitler defended him, saying it shouldn't be a big issue as long as he was a tireless fighter for the party. Later, though, Hitler had to liquidate Rohm to gain the support of conservative elements who opposed him as he was more socially radical. Rohm's homosexuality wasn't the real reason for his fall; that was just a pretext.
#15053398
Yeah am I the only one who thinks that its a bit odd that the same people who celebrated the lowering of the age of consent to pederasty to 16 in Britain are often the same people that think that Prince Andrew should face the death penalty for having sex with a 17 year old woman in the US Virgin Islands.

So my point is that while Hitler is absurdly demonised for some things he gets a strange pass on other things. I favour democracy, but if you are going to have fascism, then you need to be even harder against sexual abuse than in a democracy. What kind of message was this sending out, having Rohm and his crony's leading the SA. It was a green light to every pederast and homosexual paedophile in Germany, not just for the SA, but the Hitler Youth and every other institution in the Reich.

The other thing is that after the armsitice, while the Frei Corps were risking their lives to defend freedom in the Baltic States, in Berlin, in the North of Germany, but most notably in Bavaria. What was Hitler doing?
#15053462
Rich wrote:So my point is that while Hitler is absurdly demonised for some things he gets a strange pass on other things. I favour democracy, but if you are going to have fascism, then you need to be even harder against sexual abuse than in a democracy. What kind of message was this sending out, having Rohm and his crony's leading the SA. It was a green light to every pederast and homosexual paedophile in Germany, not just for the SA, but the Hitler Youth and every other institution in the Reich.


Well, Adolf had to gain power first, and it was a tough, uphill fight. Under the circumstances Adolf, despite Rohm's "corrupt morals, was reluctant to dump a "tireless fighter for the party." Once they got rid of him and gained power, the nazis were tough on gays and deviants. No doubt they preferred "straights" to produce more aryan children.

The other thing is that after the armsitice, while the Frei Corps were risking their lives to defend freedom in the Baltic States, in Berlin, in the North of Germany, but most notably in Bavaria. What was Hitler doing?


He was trying to build his party and gain political power. The freikorps was fine but in the nazis's view a better government was the real key to a better reich.
#15053499
starman2003 wrote:He was trying to build his party and gain political power. The freikorps was fine but in the nazis's view a better government was the real key to a better reich.

No he wasn't. Hitler didn't even attend a meeting of the DAP until September 1919. The Bavarian Soviet Republic was overthrown in the May. You see its kind of weird that our superlative anti Communist never ever mentions the time he actually lived in a Soviet Republic.
Wikipedia wrote:After World War I, Hitler returned to Munich.[84] Without formal education or career prospects, he remained in the army.[85] In July 1919 ...

Interesting eh! Interesting that they didn't feel the need to mention that Adolf Hitler was a Soviet delegate. Many soldiers slipped away from barracks to join the Frei Corps or the loyalist army units, but not our Adolf Hitler.
#15053501
Rich wrote:No he wasn't. Hitler didn't even attend a meeting of the DAP until September 1919. The Bavarian Soviet Republic was overthrown in the May. You see its kind of weird that our superlative anti Communist never ever mentions the time he actually lived in a Soviet Republic.

Interesting eh! Interesting that they didn't feel the need to mention that Adolf Hitler was a Soviet delegate. Many soldiers slipped away from barracks to join the Frei Corps or the loyalist army units, but not our Adolf Hitler.

I've read rumours that Hitler was actually a communist who turned against his former comrades once the writing was on the wall and the collapse of the Bavarian Soviet was imminent. In other words, he did what Lavrenti Beria did during the Russian Civil War, but in reverse. Lol.
#15053564
Rich wrote:No he wasn't. Hitler didn't even attend a meeting of the DAP until September 1919. The Bavarian Soviet Republic was overthrown in the May. You see its kind of weird that our superlative anti Communist never ever mentions the time he actually lived in a Soviet Republic.

Interesting eh! Interesting that they didn't feel the need to mention that Adolf Hitler was a Soviet delegate. Many soldiers slipped away from barracks to join the Frei Corps or the loyalist army units, but not our Adolf Hitler.


Just because he lived in a "soviet republic" doesn't mean he supported it. I doubt he had a problem with its overthrow....The army introduced Adolf to politics. Evidently, he didn't believe in running away, but remained in the part of the country he was familiar with, and used as it as base for later, big ambitions.
#15059281
Hitler had a Bohemian psyche but became more "Prussian" as time went on. He was an artist and pervert at heart and it was probably a source of self-loathing.

From Global news, which is owned by Fox (so accus[…]

Trump has been impeached

That's actually not why they were found not guilt[…]

Let it be known that I stand with @QatzelOk in t[…]

Bernie, on the other hand, has a lifelong, consis[…]