[BigSteve]

It's refreshing to see CNN reporting his story and quoting someone who said that the parishioners saved an "untold number of lives".

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/29/us/church-shooting-texas/index.html

This is what happens to scumbags when good people are willing to visit violence upon them. That being said, I'm sure it's only a matter of time before some non-thinking lib comes along and says it would've been better had the parishioners not been armed...

[late]

I'm sure it's only a matter of time before some non-thinking lib comes along and says it would've been better had the parishioners not been armed...

It's only a matter of time before someone points out that there would be no need in a civilised country...

[BigSteve]

It's only a matter of time before someone points out that there would be no need in a civilised country...

Well, it's what we've got.

The shooter is dead. By any measure that's a positive thing...

[late]

Well, it's what we've got.

What I was pointing out is what we haven't got, but need, which is civilisation.

[BigSteve]

What I was pointing out is what we haven't got, but need, which is civilisation.

Well, in the interim I'll gladly accept that we have good Americans who are willing to put down bad Americans...

[Patrickov]

What I was pointing out is what we haven't got, but need, which is civilisation.

Civilisation only works if both sides are more or less balanced in power, and agree to practise it to achieve win-win.

[late]

Civilisation only works if both sides are more or less balanced in power, and agree to practise it to achieve win-win.

Perhaps it's because you don't live here, but corruption plays a big role in most of American politics.

[Patrickov]

Perhaps it's because you don't live here, but corruption plays a big role in most of American politics.

That would mean civilised means no longer works then.

[JohnRawls]

It's only a matter of time before someone points out that there would be no need in a civilised country...

In a perfect world there would be no violence at all but we don't live in a perfect world. The problem of shootings has many layers in the US and yes the amount of guns is one of them. (Social issues are way important in these cases by the way)

Having said that, banning guns in US is unrealistic and will not produce results because the quantity of firearms on hands is huge in the US. Also guns are kinda a cultural past time so it is unethical in that regard to ban them. (Plus unconstitutional)

[late]

In a perfect world there would be no violence at all but we don't live in a perfect world. The problem of shootings has many layers in the US and yes the amount of guns is one of them. (Social issues are way important in these cases by the way)

Having said that, banning guns in US is unrealistic and will not produce results because the quantity of firearms on hands is huge in the US. Also guns are kinda a cultural past time so it is unethical in that regard to ban them. (Plus unconstitutional)

Every other developed country has sane gun laws.

We do crazy.

[late]

That would mean civilised means no longer works then.

Works just fine, as NZ demonstrated recently.

[JohnRawls]

Every other developed country has sane gun laws.

We do crazy.

Not really, it depends on the country. In most countries, guns are not a cultural also. (Nor a part of the constitution)

Listen, i am not saying that the gun laws do not need to change or can't be changed. They can be changed and made stricter. Banning guns in America is unethical though both because of it being part of the american culture and also because of the constitution.

There are similar examples in other countries. You can't simply ban some cultural practices that are not heavily damaging/barbaric. Guns are nowhere close to being heavily damaging or barbaric.

Fox Hunting in the UK is perhaps comparable but a bit more barbaric/damaging compared to owning guns. It was banned in the UK due to animal cruelty but a lot of people are regretting it now.(Including prominent politicians in the Tories and Labour) This also did not stop the practice of the sport in UK.

[late]

Not really

[JohnRawls]

And? We all know the problem in US regarding this. Also that includes all deaths of which mass shootings are a very minor part. What is your solution?

[late]

And? We all know the problem in US regarding this. Also that includes all deaths of which mass shootings are a very minor part. What is your solution?

One option, which would be a lot easier to get passed politically than what I'd prefer, would be to simply return the gun laws to the way they were in 1960.

[BigSteve]

Every other developed country has sane gun laws.

We do crazy.

Which of the current gun laws in this country are "crazy"?

[JohnRawls]

Which of the current gun laws in this country are "crazy"?

Open sale of weapons without proper mental and background checks in some states.

[Cartertonian]

Another gun thread, eh?

As JR points out, it's a cultural thing and the genie is well and truly out of the bottle in the US. You guys are going to have to learn to live with it.

I was privileged, over a decade ago, to serve alongside US Forces in Iraq and I was fascinated to hear from the unit chaplain that even he had a concealed carry permit, back at home. This was in the context of irony, since on deployment as a military chaplain he was not allowed to carry a side arm and therefore had to have an armed Chaplain's Assistant with him everywhere he went.

If I lived in the US, I would have a side arm.

However, I agree with JR that there is a need for proper checks to be in place. If you have to be a 'fit and proper person' to run a business, surely you need to be a 'fit and proper person' to own a firearm?

[BigSteve]

Open sale of weapons without proper mental and background checks in some states.

What do you mean by "open sale of weapons"?

I have no issue with background checks, but how would you propose screening for mental suitability?

[JohnRawls]

What do you mean by "open sale of weapons"?

I have no issue with background checks, but how would you propose screening for mental suitability?

Same way everyone does, go to a shrink and get a medical approval from a shrink. Put it in a database if needed so the retailers can see it. Background checks decreased gun violence by about 20% and its not even at 100% of background checks in America right now. Mental check with a shrink will probably reduce it even lower. Because they will check for more stuff that might be missed with a general background check.