Australian Bushfire Crisis - Page 6 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Talk about what you've seen in the news today.

Moderator: PoFo Today's News Mods

#15059430
It is too bad that you guys killed so many indigenous people.

If you had not, they could have helped teach the settlers how to manage the natural landscape more intelligently.
#15059514
Luckily (for us) Australian refugees won't have far to go. They already have their off-shore prison camps for refugees.

Image

Australians 'may become climate refugees' as global temperatures soar: US expert

As global temperatures soar, Australia could become so hot and dry that the country's residents could become climate refugees, US climatologist and geophysicist Michael Mann says.

Australia is in the midst of one of its worst fire seasons on record, with bushfires burning since September and claiming nearly 30 lives, killing more than a billion animals and razing forests and farmland the size of Bulgaria.

Some fires were so monstrous that they created their own weather pattern causing dry lightning and fire tornadoes as a three-year drought left woods tinder-dry.

"It is conceivable that much of Australia simply becomes too hot and dry for human habitation," Dr Mann, who is director of the Earth System Science Center at Pennsylvania State University, told Reuters.

"In that case, yes, unfortunately, we could well see Australians join the ranks of the world's climate refugees."

Climate refugees, or environmental migrants, are people forced to abandon their homes due to change in climate patterns or extreme weather events.

Dr Mann, the recipient of last year's Tyler Prize for Environmental Achievement, is on a sabbatical in Australia where he is studying climate change.

The co-founder of the award-winning science website RealClimate.org said the brown skies over Sydney in recent days were a result of human-caused climate change led by record heat and unprecedented drought.

Climate change has led to an increase in the frequency and severity of what scientists call "fire weather" - periods with a high fire risk due to some combination of higher temperatures, low humidity, low rainfall and strong winds, the review found.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison has repeatedly said his government would "meet and beat" a 26 per cent global emissions reduction target agreed in Paris, albeit with a caveat that such goals should not come at the cost of jobs and the economy.

Dr Mann, the author of four books including The Madhouse Effect, said Australia could still "easily achieve" the target by shifting towards renewable energy.

"It's possible to grow the economy, create jobs, and preserve the environment at the same time. These are things that all Australians could embrace," he said.

"They just need a government that's willing to act on their behalf rather than on behalf of a handful of coal barons."
#15059803
colliric wrote:Technically we inherited this culture from the British. So I guess you can blame them.

Actually, most of the Australian population are the great-great-great-children of those who killed the aboriginals for their British masters. So you've got the best killers as your genetic material. Plus lots of recent mercenaries looking to tap into the easy money that can be made swindling killers and coal miners.

Instead of "recognising" Melbourne should seek to flat out increase its Aboriginal population even if we have to draw them from interstate. It's embarrassing to me that this city has the lowest percentage.

It's not just embarassing. The general "culture" of Australia is a living atrocity.

Fires just sent several species into extinction or near-extinction, and the "public voices" of Australia spent all of their effort trying to convince everyone that "this is normal and not freakish" so that Australians don't even think about changing their behavior.

Think about this. If after the next fire, Australia becomes uninhabitable and half the population dies off, our media will probably try to convince us to go back to buying massive vehicles and using all the fossil fuels we can. "It's what all those dead Australians would have wanted us to do."

This kind of "media voice" (which has replaced social conversations about important stuff) demonstrates no hope for change or survival unless there's a major social revolution. Otherwise, it's on to the next callously-lived-through global barbie.
#15059844
Zionist Nationalist wrote:You cannot stop climate change its too late whatever its caused by humans or not nothing can be done at this point

And it may not be such a bad thing in the long term (on the order of thousands or tens of thousands of years). It will prevent the glaciers from returning during the next glacial period of the current ice age. The climate would have changed anyway, with or without human intervention. And if we lose Australia to global warming, then I personally regard that as a price well worth paying. Lol.
#15059859
Potemkin wrote:And it may not be such a bad thing in the long term (on the order of thousands or tens of thousands of years). It will prevent the glaciers from returning during the next glacial period of the current ice age. The climate would have changed anyway, with or without human intervention. And if we lose Australia to global warming, then I personally regard that as a price well worth paying. Lol.


alot can change in the future.
if CO2 is really causing the atmosphere to heat and if Humans at some point will stop spreading CO2 (assuming its the source of the global warming)
than the ice caps will return at some point unless Humans will intervene to stop that (geoengineering)

anyway I think this whole Global warming thing is a struggle between different branches of the global elite
some want to keep drilling the oil because thats their main source of income
others want to promote new technologies to make money

I dont really take sides in all of this as we live in an age of fake news and I have no personal interest in this
70K years ago there were no ice caps and the average temperature at the northern pole was 15c so global warming will not be the end of the world as the media is trying to portrait it
#15059881
Zionist Nationalist wrote:alot can change in the future.
if CO2 is really causing the atmosphere to heat and if Humans at some point will stop spreading CO2 (assuming its the source of the global warming)
than the ice caps will return at some point unless Humans will intervene to stop that (geoengineering)

We're doing that geoengineering right now, with Anthropogenic Global Warming. It's just unplanned, that's all. Lol.

anyway I think this whole Global warming thing is a struggle between different branches of the global elite
some want to keep drilling the oil because thats their main source of income
others want to promote new technologies to make money

Exactly. Follow the money. And if they tell you that it's not about the money, then it's about the money.

I dont really take sides in all of this as we live in an age of fake news and I have no personal interest in this
70K years ago there were no ice caps and the average temperature at the northern pole was 15c

That's not actually correct. 70K years ago, most of Europe and North America and North Asia were covered with glaciers. The world was in the grip of a glacial period of the current ice age. The last time the poles were ice-free was about 2.58 million years ago.

so global warming will not be the end of the world as the media is trying to portrait it

That is correct. The Earth has had a greenhouse climate for about 80% of its existence. The current icehouse climate is actually rather rare. The Earth's climate has been changing, sometimes drastically, for its entire 4.5 billion year existence. Life always somehow manages to survive.
#15059888
Potemkin wrote:That's not actually correct. 70K years ago, most of Europe and North America and North Asia were covered with glaciers. The world was in the grip of a glacial period of the current ice age. The last time the poles were ice-free was about 2.58 million years ago.


I was wrong with the time scale but The word was significantly warmer than today about 120-130k years ago and there were no or almost no ice caps in the north

Image

Potemkin wrote:We're doing that geoengineering right now, with Anthropogenic Global Warming. It's just unplanned, that's all. Lol.


Yeah sorta but Im talking about advanced geoengineering something humanity may achieve in next century (if civilization wont destroy itself by then)
#15059889
Zionist Nationalist wrote:I was wrong with the time scale but The word was significantly warmer than today about 120-130k years ago and there was no or almost no ice caps in the north

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sites/default ... k=19bwFcU9

Yes, that was during the Eemian, the last warm period in Earth's history before our present one. Notice how brief the Eemian period was, and how long the glacial period which followed it was. During an ice age (which we are currently in right now), the Earth spends about 90% of its time in a glacial period and only 10% in an interglacial. We cannot allow those glaciers to return; they would be here for another 100,000 years.

Yeah sorta but Im talking about advanced geoengineering something humanity may achieve in next century (if civilization wont destroy itself by then)

It's not doing the geoengineering which is difficult; it's controlling it which is the difficult part. Lol. ;)
#15059921
Potemkin wrote:Yes, that was during the Eemian, the last warm period in Earth's history before our present one. Notice how brief the Eemian period was, and how long the glacial period which followed it was. During an ice age (which we are currently in right now), the Earth spends about 90% of its time in a glacial period and only 10% in an interglacial. We cannot allow those glaciers to return; they would be here for another 100,000 years.


This is such a disingenuous argument.
Even with no human emissions the next period of glaciation wouldn't occur for another 20,000 years.

If in 20,000 years time we need to emit some fossil fuels then I'm all for it. Right now we are heading for a repeat of the Pliocene when temperatures were 3C warmer and the oceans 25 metres higher.

It took 4,000 years for the Eemian to cool to become a glacial period so we will have plenty of warning.
#15059930
BeesKnee5 wrote:This is such a disingenuous argument.
Even with no human emissions the next period of glaciation wouldn't occur for another 20,000 years.

If in 20,000 years time we need to emit some fossil fuels then I'm all for it. Right now we are heading for a repeat of the Pliocene when temperatures were 3C warmer and the oceans 25 metres higher.

It took 4,000 years for the Eemian to cool to become a glacial period so we will have plenty of warning.

As I said, it is good to have long-term plans. And the do-gooders want to shut down carbon emissions asap. It really is now or never! Lol.
#15059937
Zionist Nationalist wrote:You cannot stop climate change its too late whatever its caused by humans or not nothing can be done at this point

I believe that people who would rather admit defeat and do nothing (like ZN) in reality WANT TO DIE.

This is actually proof that our modern lifestyles suck and make us miserable.

To say, 'Screw it, let's just get on with dying' means that you no longer have any survival skills left in you, not even verbal ones or psychological ones.

Because even if climate change doesn't wipe us out, other forms of pollution and war are perfectly capable of doing the same thing.

....

On a side note, the kindly and sophisticated people of Australia can probably safely remove the kangaroo bars from their SUVS now - unless they actually installed them to kill children crossing the street.
#15059963
QatzelOk wrote:Because even if climate change doesn't wipe us out, other forms of pollution and war are perfectly capable of doing the same thing.


Yeah...just ask Dalila Jakupović.
#15059972
colliric wrote:
Biggest Australian bushfires in recorded history


Not even close to the biggest. The 1974 fires were way bigger:

As of 14 January 2020, fires this season have burned an estimated 18.6 million hectares (46 million acres; 186,000 square kilometres; 72,000 square miles)

...

Whereas these bushfires are regarded by the NSW Rural Fire Service as the worst bushfire season in memory for that state,[14] the 1974 bushfires were nationally much larger[a] consuming 117 million hectares (290 million acres; 1,170,000 square kilometres; 450,000 square miles).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–20_Australian_bushfire_season

the 1969 fires were bigger

the 68 fires were bigger

and quite a few over the last 170 years were of comparable size

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushfir ... _Australia


This all just a heap of retarded hype.
#15059973
Cool thanks mate.. thanks for putting it all in perspective.

So the 1851 Victorian fire is still the biggest singular bushfire?

Lol. So the media lied.

I thought so. Living in Victoria this was naturally "Bushfire business as usual" for us down here. You can tell it's now well past the peak.
#15059976
colliric wrote:
So the 1851 Victorian fire is still the biggest single fire?


No, the 1974-75 fires were the biggest. They dwarf the current fires. And in 1974 there is no way man made climate change had anything to do with it.
#15059977
Pants-of-dog wrote:It is too bad that you guys killed so many indigenous people.

If you had not, they could have helped teach the settlers how to manage the natural landscape more intelligently.


yeah because "indigenous people" have never wiped themselves out by horribly mismanaging their environment. :knife: the all-wise-in-the-ways-of-nature native is a racist stereotype. it's also ahistorical idiocy.
#15059983
Sivad wrote:No, the 1974-75 fires were the biggest. They dwarf the current fires. And in 1974 there is no way man made climate change had anything to do with it.


Lol!

Victoria skipped that season totally, everywhere else burnt up... Our biggest burn remains the 1851 bushfires at 5 Million hectares and our second biggest is the 1951 Bushfires at 4 million.

We entered this one late lucky (seriously Melbourne had some of its coldest Summer days in a long time at the start of December, so that's why I didn't know there was Bushfires everywhere else till just before Christmas!), so I recon we've seen about 1-1.5 million hectares burnt maximum(Dan Andrews says about 1.2 have burnt but that was just over a week ago). Still much worse than Black Saturday and Ash Wednesday were through.

Lol.

It's laughable now how people tried to blame this explicitly on Global Warming. Lol.

Victoria's 1851 record remains intact. Our part of these fires is about only 1/5th as bad as the worst fires on record in our state.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
#15059990
Sivad wrote:Not even close to the biggest. The 1974 fires were way bigger:

As of 14 January 2020, fires this season have burned an estimated 18.6 million hectares (46 million acres; 186,000 square kilometres; 72,000 square miles)

...

Whereas these bushfires are regarded by the NSW Rural Fire Service as the worst bushfire season in memory for that state,[14] the 1974 bushfires were nationally much larger[a] consuming 117 million hectares (290 million acres; 1,170,000 square kilometres; 450,000 square miles).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–20_Australian_bushfire_season

the 1969 fires were bigger

the 68 fires were bigger

and quite a few over the last 170 years were of comparable size

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushfir ... _Australia


This all just a heap of retarded hype.


Of you are just looking at area affected, it is one of the largest.

If you are looking at fatalities, it is one of the largest.

If you are looking at homes lost, it is the largest.

In terms of negative impacts on wildlife, this is easily the largest.

——————-

Sivad wrote:yeah because "indigenous people" have never wiped themselves out by horribly mismanaging their environment. :knife: the all-wise-in-the-ways-of-nature native is a racist stereotype. it's also ahistorical idiocy.


....except we have already seen in this thread how indigenous burnings were an effective means of controlling the fire. Even better than the methids currently used by firefighters in Australia.

Let me know when you find and read the article!
#15059994
Pants-of-dog wrote:If you are looking at fatalities, it is one of the largest.


Not true at all.

Black Saturday killed over 173 people and Ash Wednesday 75. This actually isn't even in the top 5 with only 29 fatalities so far. It's only 6th and it will most likely stay there. The Black Saturday and Ash Wednesday fires spread extreamly quickly (in a single day) so there was no time for people to escape, resulting in Victoria's last two major fires accounting for the majority of Bushfire related Fatalities in Australian history. Thee other States followed Victoria's lead in reforming fire safety as a result. People in Australia are now told to "Take Lot as an example, leave everything, run and don't look back!".... It use to be "Stay and fight if you can". As a result these Bushfires have had relatively low fatalities in comparison to the two single day disasters Victoria suffered in the 80s and the 00s. If you personally count 6th as being "one of the largest"(I don't), ok whatever, but at least admit it hasn't even cracked the top 5 yet!

If you are looking at homes lost, it is the largest.


Yes Australia's population is indeed rising. Thanks for noticing. Melbourne is growing at a faster rate and about to pass Sydney and regain its "biggest city in Australia" title which we lost to Sydney late in the 20th century. So more and more people have also naturally gone bush and there's more homes in bushfire prone regions as a result.

In terms of negative impacts on wildlife, this is easily the largest.


No actual figures on how many animals died from the 1974-75 Bushfires.... So who knows for sure???
  • 1
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8

No, everybody accepts the wisdom that goes with my[…]

Trump is a hero of the Holocaust

This film is worth watching. Trump will put fear[…]

I have been watching the News. I know there are a[…]

A message from George Floyd

He seems like a good person. ((Hugssszzz))) We l[…]