The US assasinated Iran's Qassem Soleimani - Page 38 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15059810
Zionist Nationalist wrote:From Iranian state TV
Iranian Ayatollah Ahmad Alamolhoda: U.K. Ambassador Should Be Chopped into Pieces


Such words should never be said publicly. I don't have a problem if they can actually carry it out, and on the "correct" person, though.

In this sense, one may say Trump actually deserves the greatness, because his actions are as loud as his words, if not more.
#15059869
@blackjack21

blackjack21 wrote:The US really doesn't need oil from the Middle East. We can source any deficit we have from other regions. We're practically energy independent now. In fact, we are one of the few countries that can process heavy sour crude, so we are a net exporter of refined petroleum distillates. That's why there is increasing pressure on European powers to beef up and start taking on more of the responsibility for securing their own energy supply lines.


I know we are energy independent. But these are non-renewable resources. So part of our strategy is consume Middle East oil first before consuming our own. This is part of the reason we have cheap gas in comparison to the rest of the world. You go to other parts of the world and gasoline is much more expensive than gas here in the US. Just because we are energy independent doesn't mean we are not in the Middle East because of their vast oil resources. Oil is extraordinarily important to us in the Middle East given we prefer to consume their resources first before consuming our own. This also plays into our interest in protecting the world wide energy supply as that effects things like gasoline prices here in the US.
#15059877
@blackjack21 quoted me correcting me about the Shah. I am corrected. But what I was talking about was the 1953 issue in which the USA CIA interfered severely in the internal affairs of Iranian government. Instead of becoming more 'liberal' and more open to the USA's oil interests and geopolitical interests it became more of a conservative and closed society and less democratic. That happens when you interfere with your bad policies and create bad reactions with nationalism.

These little two pieces sum it up. British and CIA coup and engineering bullshit as usual.

1951-1953. The Communist explanation is critical as well as the issue with autocratic fundamentalists. The USA CIA helped prop up monsters. What else is new?



The second one is a Rick Steves video mainly talking about cultural aspects of Iranian life:

Trump wants to bomb those gorgeous buildings and kill those little girls in pink? That Prez 45 better think twice before spouting BULLSHIT:

#15059883
anasawad wrote:@Rancid
You mean on Suleimani's death?

Outside of the state ran regime media in Iran and Syria, most were between celebrating his death and analyzing what comes next.
Though generally speaking, his death is already old news, so it's not talked about in the same volume as in the first 2-3 days.
There are too many other things to cover basically.



For example, Lebanese media today were mainly covering:
- Roads blocked.
-Protests.
- hand to hand clashes with security forces.
- The attacks on the banks and the central bank.
- The formation of a new government.
- The protests in Iraq and Iran.
- The new classification of Hezbollah as terrorist group by the UK.
-The bombings in Idlib.
- many other minor things with no mention of Suleimani outside of the constant vomit of threats coming from Hezbollah without anything done.


Yes, I meant Suleimani's death.

Thanks for the answer.
#15059885
@Tainari88

I was watching your Iranian video and it talks about how Iran is Persians and not Arab. It also talked about how Farsi is spoken in Iran. Farsi is also spoken in Afghanistan too (also called Dari) along with Pashto. You also see Iranians in Afghanistan and white people too who are native Afghans.
#15059886
Drlee wrote:Ask the Panamanians. They think it is just fine. Ask Germany, Japan, South Korea, Cambodia, Yugoslavia....

The US is a wealthy and powerful country. It is unreasonable to expect it to allow tyranny to flourish. Just as it checked the power of the Soviet Union, it will continue to play a role on the international stage. And that role will often be to support regime change through one means or another.


Or you could ask me.

I actually had to deal with the USA’s “benevolence” through regime change.

The attempt to sop “tyranny” resulted in thousands of deaths, torture, dead kids, rape, embezzlement, et cetera.

But if you think Noriega was bad for Panama, why did the Us put him into power?

But US companies made money, so it was fine, I guess.

Occasionally this happens but not that frequently. And when it does happen it does not necessarily mean that things are worse for the people of the country but maybe not the optimal result.

In the case of Iran, we are seeking to replace a brutal and repressive dictatorship.


No. If you folks wanted to end tyrannical regimes in MENA countries, then why are you ignoring Saudi Arabia?

If you were trying to control access to oil in the region, which would make more sense, you would be seeking to isolate and declaw the only country that can effectively challenge US power in the region.

I find it funny that when an American evangelical says that gays are sinning so many here start foaming at the mouth. Let Iran hand thousands of them and Iran is just a poor oppressed country suffering under the heavy hand of the US.

I remind everyone here, yet again, that Iran attacked our people, killed one, bragged about it and promised to do it again. There was not a soul in the US taking to the streets chanting 'death to Iran', planning to bomb its embassies or blow up its soldiers in the field.


There are US people in thus very thread who have celebrated Iranian deaths.

In the light of recent history, Trump's strike was the picture of moderation.

I did not come to this conclusion easily. My initial thoughts are here for all to read. I thought this was a brash political move to distract from the impeachment. I still think it is partially that. But in the cold light of day, the action passes the stink test. This was no innocent diplomat. It was a cold, dispassionate, killer committed to terrorism as a political tool.


Trump was only moderate when you compare him to most other US presidents who simply carpet bomb whole countries in the region.

But the war crimes of previous administrations is irrelevant.

———————-

Also, people are (deliberately?) misusing the word “terrorism”.

If state actors can be described as terrorists, then the USA is as guilty of terrorism as Iranian actors.
#15059896
Politics_Observer wrote:I was watching your Iranian video and it talks about how Iran is Persians and not Arab. It also talked about how Farsi is spoken in Iran. Farsi is also spoken in Afghanistan too (also called Dari) along with Pashto. You also see Iranians in Afghanistan and white people too who are native Afghans.



Did you know that Iran or Iranian is where the word Ayran comes from? At least that's what I was told once.
#15059897
@Rancid

Rancid wrote:Did you know that Iran or Iranian is where the word Ayran comes from? At least that's what I was told once.


No, I didn't know that. When I hear the word Ayran, the first thing that springs to my mind honestly are historical monsters like Adolf Hitler or the very dangerous, evil and ruthless criminal prison gang who call themselves "The Ayran Brotherhood."
#15059899
"By the late 19th century the steppe theory of Indo-European origins was challenged by a view that the Indo-Europeans originated in ancient Germany or Scandinavia – or at least that in those countries the original Indo-European ethnicity had been preserved. The word Aryan was consequently used even more restrictively – and even less in keeping with its Indo-Iranian origins – to mean "Germanic", "Nordic" or Northern Europeans.[16] This implied division of Caucasoids into Aryans, Semites and Hamites was also based on linguistics, rather than based on physical anthropology..."

Which is a fancy way of saying BS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_race
#15059900
Politics_Observer wrote:No, I didn't know that. When I hear the word Ayran, the first thing that springs to my mind honestly are historical monsters like Adolf Hitler or the very dangerous, evil and ruthless criminal prison gang who call themselves "The Ayran Brotherhood."


Yea, somehow that word came to mean white european, but the true Ayrans are Persians.... some shit like that.
#15059908
anasawad wrote:@Pants-of-dog
Any regime or group that uses violence to terrorize civilians in order to achieve political goals is guilty of terrorism.


The traditionally accepted definition excludes state actors.

Terrorism is usually seen as unlawful or illegal. The USA and Iran can simply make it legal or lawful to use violence and fear to achieve political goals.

Yes, both the US and Iranian regimes are guilty of terrorism.


Exactly. If we also include lawful or legal means of coercing civilians through violence and fear, then theses countries are also terrorists.
#15059910
@Pants-of-dog
The traditionally accepted definition excludes state actors.

Sure, traditionally, it's called war crimes if done in other countries in times of wars, and crimes against humanity if done outside of it.

Call it crimes against humanity, terrorism, state terrorism, etc, Both regimes are guilty of the same crimes.

The USA and Iran can simply make it legal or lawful to use violence and fear to achieve political goals.

That's why, ideally, the standard should be to maintain the principles of human rights, with anything going against that being considered illegitimate.

Even if it was made lawful, the people will resent it and inevitably fight it, eventually bringing down any regime practicing it.
No tyranny lasts forever.

The only difference between the US and Iranian regime is that the Iranian regime is weaker and thus it will fall faster, but the US status as a global superpower is coming to an end and its regime will meet the same fate sooner or later.
#15059911
noemon wrote:There is not a single Iranian I know who supports the Tehran regime and I am actually married to an Iranian. Anasawad as an Iranian himself echoes what the huge majority of Iranians want, and that is the Theocratic regime gone by any means possible. That does not mean however that I will ever support Iranian people getting killed by Americans in this process.


How are you so sure that it's a huge majority? The EU is probably more despised among Europeans than the Iranian government is among Iranians.
Last edited by Code Rood on 17 Jan 2020 21:54, edited 1 time in total.
#15059925
@ingliz

Your signature is awesome ingliz. I like both the quotes but especially the one from George Orwell where he talks about politics. He hits the nail on the head.
#15060085
Politics_Observer wrote:@Tainari88

I was watching your Iranian video and it talks about how Iran is Persians and not Arab. It also talked about how Farsi is spoken in Iran. Farsi is also spoken in Afghanistan too (also called Dari) along with Pashto. You also see Iranians in Afghanistan and white people too who are native Afghans.


Politics Observer, I get tired of the ignorance about Puerto Rico in the USA. Imagine about other nations like Iran? I think the ignorance is running rampant in the USA and in many towns and cities in the USA, and the American ethnocentrism is about arrogance, and it is BAD in general in the USA about other peoples, other nations and other cultures. All nations have their good and bad aspects, and their cultural and social shortcomings. No human society is perfect. It never is. Fear of other ways of running nations or societies is not going to help your cause if you are trying to be greedy and imperialistic. I hate imperialism with a deep passion. It is destroying Puerto Rico right now. It is destroying many nations. That shit has to STOP!!

Iran was an empire. They lost the Persian empire to Alexander the Great. Every empire in human history eventually loses its colonies and its expansive territories. Why? Overweening ambition, greed, and lusting for control of the world. It is damn ridiculous that humans don't learn the lessons of history. You get much farther in life negotiating as equals with respect and caring and being intelligent and being upfront and balanced in asking for what you want than using violence, terror and pressure based on arrogance and fear. It happens all the time.

I even have people from the USA who check in to Airbnb and are surprised that I am in Mexico and am a USA citizen....they think I have to kiss American ass and be an American my whole life and so on....no, I don't. I am Latin American FIRST. Puerto Rico is Latin American, and the USA can deny that reality to kingdom come but the reality is you stop a Mexican and ask them to sing a Puerto Rican song that is famous in the Spanish speaking world in Spanish and they will know instantly a lot of them. Americans? You stop some American ignorant in the streets of Chicago, NYC, Charleston, and many other American cities and none of the non Latin people will ever know a Puerto Rican song or anything culturally shared at all....none.

We are not supposed to be part of Anglophone realities. We are part of the Latin American nations. I got classified differently than the USA citizens in Mexico seeking Mexican residency. They can spout all the rhetoric they want to in the USA about how sophisticated they are Politics Observer but they are not!

How can you even begin to repair the damage between nations with conflicting interests if you don't even know the difference between Arabic vs Farsi, or the history between nations?

Imagine if Iran had interfered in the USA and then been controlling, dictating, propping up dictators favoring Iran over the native USA population and punishing, killing, creating and fomenting wars and etc to favor themselves? Would you like them?

Start seeing human histories with more objectivity. The American reality is only 6% of the world's human experience. 94% of humanity doesn't live in the USA. Accept that and stop with the attitude is what Americans should work on.....if they did? Maybe you would have some real progress on negotiating decent international treaties and diplomatic and fair trade relationships. Instead of having the Ugly American syndrome everywhere.
Last edited by Tainari88 on 18 Jan 2020 21:09, edited 1 time in total.
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