[skinster]

You know, so many people knock Cuba, but they've achieved so much with so little so progressively. They are the ones who the world should be trying to emulate

They have achieved much within and promote lots of good stuff outside:

[skinster]

[Stormsmith]

I'll bet my hubby would have liked that. He's coming home on Nov 11. Hope he was able to find me a Che Guevara calendar.

[skinster]

Can you ask him to send me one too?

[Stormsmith]

If he phones again, i'll ask him to get two and i'll mail it to you.

[skinster]

<33333

[QatzelOk]

I saved some money and decided to take my bicycle to somewhere in Latin America to explore the countryside and towns alone on my bike.

I needed somewhere safe from crime and safe from cars.

After doing research, there was only one country where I was unlikely to get killed by a car or robbed by criminals, and that country is... Cuba. Communist.

Really, this is a very selfish "what I want from Latin America" OP that I wrote many trips to Cuba ago. As a tourist, here's what I want.... As if tourists are in a position to "demand" a certain type of physical environment from their host countries.

But here's an important question: Does anyone else want to be able to ride their bike in a Latin American country without being killed by a car, or damaged in other ways by desperate criminals, drug dealers, and School of the Americas alumni?

Do the people in the following photo deserve the right to be able to ride their bicycles safely in Latin America as well?



Do North American kids deserve the right to be able to ride their bikes to school safely? Does anyone?

[QatzelOk]

I just got back from two weeks in Havana.

Urban Cuba is surprisingly friendly and the streets are both very alive with people, and very safe from any kind of crime. Of course, minor thiefing exists just like where all of us live, but even the street-dwelling kids were really nice and trusting.

It's a shame that a lot of those ornate multi-story buildings are collapsing, but then again, it costs a fortune to repair them, and from what I can see, they weren't really built to last. A lot of cheap brick covered with a thin layer of cement. This looks really good, but it is cheap and Disneyland-esque.

So I'm not really sure if it's worth saving a lot of them. Most of them were built by the various mafias using slave-like labor. And the people who built them with their hands, were never the people who lived in them.

Today, all structures are used by everyone for housing etc.

[Patrickov]

So I'm not really sure if it's worth saving a lot of them. Most of them were built by the various mafias using slave-like labor. And the people who built them with their hands, were never the people who lived in them.

I am a bit surprised that the Cuban Government have not decided to tear these buildings down (yet). They certainly pose safety threats to whoever inside or near.

[QatzelOk]

I am a bit surprised that the Cuban Government have not decided to tear these buildings down (yet). They certainly pose safety threats to whoever inside or near.

Many of them are "saved at the last minute" by hotel chains.

The others can be quickly converted to mass housing in urban districts.

When they collapse, the empty lot becomes a park. And Havana does need more small parks. It's a very social culture, so public places are very useful and enriching.

By the way, I saw a lot of young boys rollerblading on the streets of Central Havana. My bicycle tour guide mentioned ironically that you should stay outside in case your building collapses.

But what I noticed was that kids actually play outside and get enough excercise and socialization.

New buildings are built to a different standard than these old Disney castle buildings. Not as fancy, but much easier to maintain long-term.

[Patrickov]

Many of them are "saved at the last minute" by hotel chains.

The others can be quickly converted to mass housing in urban districts.

When they collapse, the empty lot becomes a park. And Havana does need more small parks. It's a very social culture, so public places are very useful and enriching.

By the way, I saw a lot of young boys rollerblading on the streets of Central Havana. My bicycle tour guide mentioned ironically that you should stay outside in case your building collapses.

But what I noticed was that kids actually play outside and get enough excercise and socialization.

New buildings are built to a different standard than these old Disney castle buildings. Not as fancy, but much easier to maintain long-term.

This still doesn't answer my worries that if the buildings do collapse people might be killed. Apparently not all are "rescued in the last minute", are they?

[QatzelOk]

This still doesn't answer my worries that if the buildings do collapse people might be killed. Apparently not all are "rescued in the last minute", are they?

Occasionally, people are killed while in these buildings. But usually, not.

And there is on average one building collapse per year, typically during or after hurrican season.

In Montreal, where I live, there are similar problems with our old, mafia-built building stock.

[Patrickov]

Occasionally, people are killed while in these buildings. But usually, not.

And there is on average one building collapse per year, typically during or after hurrican season.

This is a terrible record IMHO. In Hong Kong, or even China, a building collapsing for any reason other than orderly destruction (with everyone evacuated or evicted, of course) is probably as serious as the city being nuked.

[Pants-of-dog]

The vast majority of buildings in Cuba are made from reinforced concrete and are low rise.

Even in the event of a building collapse, anyone inside the building would probably be fine and have time to get out safely.

I also doubt that building collapse is a problem, since the average Cuban maintenance person probably knows how to repair and maintain simple concrete structures.

[Sivad]

The great thing about Cuba is the people are so poor and desperately that most of them will allow tourists to sex them for a little bit of yanqui green.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Sivad

Are you speaking from personal experience?

And while sex work is still a reality in Cuba, it is far less significant than it was previous to the revolution.

[Rancid]

The great thing about Cuba is the people are so poor and desperately that most of them will allow tourists to sex them for a little bit of yanqui green.

You should buy land there, develop a golf course and then run golf and hookers tours through the island. That said golf is loosing popularity with younger people, so you might have to find another use for the land, eventually.

[Sivad]

@Sivad

Are you speaking from personal experience?

No, I have basic human decency. I don't tell crazy fucking babbit lies and I don't sexually exploit desperate people. Those are two lines I just don't cross because neither sex or ideology are worth losing my soul over.

And while sex work is still a reality in Cuba, it is far less significant than it was previous to the revolution.

And PoD tries to downplay the rampant sexual exploitation of women and children to preserve his ideology. Personally, I'd sell my ass before I'd do something like that.

[Pants-of-dog]

And PoD tries to downplay the rampant sexual exploitation of women and children to preserve his ideology. Personally, I'd sell my ass before I'd do something like that.

If your only argument is that I am not emotionally reacting in the way in which you feel I should, then there is no debate.

Edit:

As a clarification, I do agree that the state has a duty to protect its citizens from sexual exploitation. And any amount of sexual exploitation is too much. So yes, we should criticise the Cuban state for not getting rid of sexual exploitation entirely. Just as we should for any other country.

And we should also look at what measures the state can take to minimise sexual exploitation.

If we assume that people end up being sexually exploited because of poverty (which seems rational), then it would make sense to introduce and maintain anti-poverty measures. This would then reduce sexual exploitation.

[Stormsmith]

And PoD tries to downplay the rampant sexual exploitation of women and children to preserve his ideology. Personally, I'd sell my ass before I'd do something like that.

What evidence have you that children are more likely to be sex slaves in Cuba than they are elsewhere?

And as for adult women, they are selling themse!ves,even to their husbands, as they see fit. You know, like football players sell themselves.