[late]

Bloomberg is actually exhibiting a masterful command of how all of this works, and he's easily fooling people like you who think they know how it works.

Good grief.

What I've been saying since he jumped in is that this is a Hail Mary. His plan is to weaken Biden, and get the East Coast Establishment to support him at the convention.

[Big Steve-3]

Good grief.

What I've been saying since he jumped in is that this is a Hail Mary. His plan is to weaken Biden, and get the East Coast Establishment to support him at the convention.

And that will guarantee a Trump victory.

Seeing as a Trump victory is not what Bloomberg wants, you're wrong.

[blackjack21]

Not if you rebate more than they pay.

Do you need help with the math?

Yea. If you rebate the money, what's the point in having the tax. As I've already pointed out, the rich have an out. So who's going to pay the tax? It's a tax on the poor. There isn't going to be a rebate for the poor, because the whole point is to tax the poor while selling them on the idea that they're paying the tax to "save the planet." It's the most dastardly and cynical thing ever, and it has already blown up in France. That's pretty much a template for what will happen everywhere else.

That would remain to be seen but that is not the point of impeachment anymore is it? The point of impeachment is to cripple your opponent to the point they cannot carry out policy, the insurance policy if they do not win.

Well, it's clearly not about some crime committed by the president. His defense was a tour de force of constitutional law among other things, even bringing up a point I had made that when you can't specify a codified law it is effectively a Bill of Attainder and violates ex post facto simultaneously. The Senate should vote to acquit and let the House take another bite at the apple if they think they can put together a solid case. Even Democrats who aren't completely batshit crazy have to be despondent by the shitty case the House managers made. We have to fight Russia in Ukraine so we don't have to fight them in the United States? WTF? I can't be the only one who thinks these people are on drugs.

This impeachment is about the congressional races.

Well, probably more the Senate than the House, as Chuck Schumer is desperate to gain the Senate Majority Leader position to stop the Supreme Court from becoming solidly conservative, which is their greatest fear; otherwise, the left can no longer use the courts to force unpopular legislation on the country. As for the House, there are key people like Jerry Nadler who are scared shitless of being primaried by AOC acolytes with her energy and endorsement behind them. On a caucus basis, it doesn't matter if Nadler loses to Boylan, because she'll win the general election anyway. NYC will vote for Republican mayors so that they are safe, but Democrats for the House and Senate. I don't see them waking up and voting Republican for the house from Manhattan.

Why Lindsey Boylan is Running for Congress Against Jerry Nadler

The establishment is running desperate right now. It's really exciting to watch.

Warren and Bootyjudge have a big problem with the black vote and Sanders has a big problem with establishment Democrats.

I voted Sanders in this, because I think Trump wanted the impeachment. It's a wrecking ball to the establishment and for whatever reason they just cannot seem to grasp that. This is not going to save Joe Biden. If anything, it's tanking him and giving an opening to Bernie, and Bernie is sequestered in the Senate--in other words, exactly the opposite of what the Democrats expected is happening. New polls show that Sanders could win South Carolina too. Generally, if you win the first three, you're on your way to the nomination.

Trump is polling if you believe polls to double his black vote.

I really don't trust the polls at this point; however, Trump told black voters in 2016 that he'd lower their unemployment and he has done that. While it's South Jersey, apparently Trump had as many as 100k requests for tickets to his rally in Wildwood, NJ! These rallies say a hell of a lot more than any polls do.

Honestly I don't how its possible for Sanders too win when he literally wants to completely transform our country.

I don't want him to win either, but don't count him out. His supporters are enthusiastic. Enough of the American people hate the political establishment now. They voted for Obama and Trump. It's not out of the realm of possibility. If you watched how everyone has covered the CNN Don Lemon attack of Trump supporters, that's an attack on a lot of Southern and rural Democrats too. This is why the Democrats lost Pennsylvania. These people just aren't learning.

It wouldn't look the same after he was done.

Oh, no doubt about it. He's running against Trump, so I don't give him that much of a chance. But if he were running against Mitt Romney, I bet he'd win and Romney would be in disbelief.

Don't look past Bloomberg who is willing to spend a billion dollars.

That is a very big deal. I don't think it's as important as grass roots support. Hillary Clinton had far more money than Trump. In the primaries, Jeb Bush had more than anyone and he didn't even place by South Carolina. Having that grass roots support is much more important, which is why Sanders is a real threat.

He too has issues with the black vote with "stop and frisk".

The whole Democratic party does. They called Trump racist for years, but Trump told blacks he would lower their unemployment. He not only did that, but he also worked with Tim Scott on legislation and on prison reform--a concept introduced to him by Kim Kardashian and Kanye West. That's a problem for Bloomberg against Trump in the general election. You can hear it now, "Mini Mike Bloomberg used stop and frisk to put minorities in jail, but I passed the First Step Act to address harsh prison sentencing and help people get out of prison and get their lives back on track. Where's Kanye West? Come on up here Kanye!" <--This is why you don't want to underestimate opponents. It's why Sanders shouldn't be underestimated either.

The more I think about it the Democrats realize the don't have a viable presidential candidate for the foreseeable future and they are better off fighting for control of the house and senate than the presidency.

The Senate is their last hope.

Sanders will choke, probably well before the Convention, because as I intimated elsewhere his role is to make the alleged ''Centrist'' Democrat candidates look more moderate to less radical Democrat voters. He means absolutely nothing else, it's a con.

The OP admonishes to express what you think will happen, not what you want to happen. I'm frankly uncertain as I was in 2016. However, I am certain that the populace hates the establishment right now. Sanders is leading by 6 points in California right now. That's a lot of delegates. Iowa, NH, South Carolina are a momentum story. If Sanders wins California, that spells big problems for Biden.

Magical thinking is a characteristic of such cargo cults as these.

Well, running on things like free healthcare for illegal aliens is just going to drive even more working class people to Trump. I never thought I'd live to see them do something like that after losing to Trump in 2016. They are just determined not to learn the lesson of 2016.

[colliric]

Tucker Carlson is predicting Bernie will win the nomination.

[blackjack21]

Tucker Carlson is predicting Bernie will win the nomination.

See, I think this impeachment thing was a huge backfire. It shined the light on Biden's corruption, portrayed the Democrats defending it, and Biden is tanking now. Bolton's scheme is only going to make it worse. I mean, he will sell books, but it will elongate the process, drag the Bidens through the mud, and before anyone realizes it, the California primary will be upon us (March 3), and Sanders is leading by 6 points. As Richard Nixon said, "Always remember, others may hate you, but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them, and then you destroy yourself." The Democrats are literally destroying themselves in their hatred of Trump. It's quite spectacular.

[colliric]

Everyone know Bernie is the best candidate anyway. I think only Tulsi Gabbard is the other one we can be guaranteed to see again later(most likely in 2024).

If Bernie wins he should pick her as his Vice Presidential running mate. That would really shock the Democratic establishment. Two anti-establishment progressive Democrats on the same ticket.

[Finfinder]

I don't want him to win either, but don't count him out. His supporters are enthusiastic. Enough of the American people hate the political establishment now. They voted for Obama and Trump. It's not out of the realm of possibility. If you watched how everyone has covered the CNN Don Lemon attack of Trump supporters, that's an attack on a lot of Southern and rural Democrats too. This is why the Democrats lost Pennsylvania. These people just aren't learning. .

Interesting if Trump is enemy number one, Bernie is a close second to the media and the Democratic establishment. I don't discount Sanders winning the nomination but I also don't discount a brokered convention or some other weird path for a candidate who plays nice with the establishment. The Democrats are spiraling out of control, look at all the crap they pulled over the last three years. The only thing we can predict is they can't accomplish anything without lying and cheating

BTW is it true they want to have phone- in voting in CA, is this possible?

[blackjack21]

Everyone know Bernie is the best candidate anyway.

Well, he has the most enthusiastic base of supporters, but not the broadest. Until now, he would get over 20% or fall under 20%. He's picked up a bunch of Warren voters following the obviously coordinated CNN/Warren hit on Sanders as a "sexist"--so obviously false it makes one wonder why they ever greenlighted that. So seeing him at 25-27% is a break out for him.

I think only Tulsi Gabbard is the other one we can be guaranteed to see again later(most likely in 2024).

I think she'll be back too. She needs to learn the Trump tricks of getting the media to cover you even if it's unpopular, provided what she's saying is popular with voters. A lot of people need to learn that lesson. Trump supporters have drinks like MAGAritas and Subpoenacoladas.

If Bernie wins he should pick her as his Vice Presidential running mate.

That would be something. Although, Gabbard and AOC get into it too. Sanders can't pick AOC, because she's not of age yet. Rashida Tlaib is old enough though.

I don't discount Sanders winning the nomination but I also don't discount a brokered convention or some other weird path for a candidate who plays nice with the establishment.

That seems like the wildcard. A lot of anti-Trumpers were raising the prospect of a brokered convention in 2016. In fact, it was his knowledge of the party rules that brought Paul Manafort into the mix to ensure Trump sealed the nomination. Then, the leak came that Manafort was working with Ukraine, etc. and Trump promptly fired Manafort--lasting roughly a month as campaign manager.

The Democrats are spiraling out of control, look at all the crap they pulled over the last three years.

Just the last 18 months has been crazy enough.

BTW is it true they want to have phone- in voting in CA, is this possible?

They talk about all sorts of wacky ideas here. They want to have a permanent Democratic majority, but even Gavin Newsom is already unpopular. I think the party cult thing has to start breaking down. Democrat=Good is not a political position or a solid expression of citizenship.

At any rate, I expect this impeachment fiasco to continue to sink Joe Biden.

[late]

If you rebate the money, what's the point in having the tax.

Because it would accelerate the shift away from oil, and you know it.

Big Oil loves ya.

[late]

Bolton's scheme is only going to make it worse. I mean, he will sell books, but it will elongate the process, drag the Bidens through the mud...

Cool! A new lie!!!

Who gave you that whopper? Do tell, please..

The Trump crowd are getting hammered. Biden is not relevant to the theme of the book.Based on the little I've seen, he's not selling Trump lies, he's exposing them.

[late]

And that will guarantee a Trump victory.

Seeing as a Trump victory is not what Bloomberg wants, you're wrong.

Bloomberg despises Trump.

[Big Steve-3]

Bloomberg despises Trump.

And?

Bloomberg doesn't want Trump to be President. If spending billions of his own money is a ruse of a campaign is what it takes to get someone other than Trump elected, Bloomberg will do that.

He does not, however, want to be President himself. If he did, he would not be conducting his campaign in such a way that he's precluded from getting out in front of the American people in a forum in which he could contrast himself from the other candidates.

30 second commercials will not win him the election, and he's smart enough to know that.

[late]

And?

Bloomberg doesn't want Trump to be President. If spending billions of his own money is a ruse of a campaign is what it takes to get someone other than Trump elected, Bloomberg will do that.

He does not, however, want to be President himself. If he did, he would not be conducting his campaign in such a way that he's precluded from getting out in front of the American people in a forum in which he could contrast himself from the other candidates.

30 second commercials will not win him the election, and he's smart enough to know that.

You don't understand, he's setting things up so we get a brokered convention. It's not all that likely, but he has a long track record of winning his fights.

He's a shark, and he smells blood in the water. But I want to thank you, you do have some amusement value.

[Finfinder]

That seems like the wildcard. A lot of anti-Trumpers were raising the prospect of a brokered convention in 2016. In fact, it was his knowledge of the party rules that brought Paul Manafort into the mix to ensure Trump sealed the nomination. Then, the leak came that Manafort was working with Ukraine, etc. and Trump promptly fired Manafort--lasting roughly a month as campaign manager. .

Tru and I'll add, the difference is the Republicans are too scared to pull a label off a mattress while the Democrats already rigged an election against Bernie so I'm just going with their history and disdain for the man. I'm thinking how is possible for Sanders to win without the full backing of the establishment and DNC. Hearing rumors that Obama really wants to speak out against Sanders, so I'm not sure what dynamics have changed except the weakness of the current field of alternatives. People laugh but Hillary is still probably the most viable candidate with the ability to put the entire weight of the establishment behind an election process. (she still wouldn't win) Also can Bernie even fund a campaign? I assume Wall Street is out Silicon Valley can't be too enthusiastic about Sanders. It all adds up short for the Dems and they know it.

[Big Steve-3]

You don't understand, he's setting things up so we get a brokered convention. It's not all that likely, but he has a long track record of winning his fights.

He's a shark, and he smells blood in the water. But I want to thank you, you do have some amusement value.

Your proclivity for insults negates anything worthwhile you might otherwise have to say.

[late]

Your proclivity for insults negates anything worthwhile you might otherwise have to say.

You wish.

Participate in a few campaigns, see how it works. It would be even better if you are in a caucus state, that's a real education.

[Big Steve-3]

You wish.

Participate in a few campaigns, see how it works. It would be even better if you are in a caucus state, that's a real education.

I have participated in several, for both local and national offices.

Please don't allow yourself to believe you can teach me anything. My understanding of politics in this country is quite adequate, I assure you.

[late]

Please don't allow yourself to believe you can teach me anything. My understanding of politics in this country is quite adequate, I assure you.

OK, so you aren't paying close attention to the Dem mud wrestling.

Understandable.

Something I don't understand is why Dems hate Progressives. It prob comes down to money and power, but the devil is always in the details. This has been going on my entire life. In 1968, the first campaign I paid attention to, the Progressive candidate was in the lead going into the convention. The convention improperly robbed him of his win, gave it to a guy that hadn't even been running, who of course lost.

This campaign reminds me of 68, combine Warren and Sanders supporters, and they'd be way ahead of Biden. So the progressives are ahead, but the establishment and the party insiders are attacking them.

Biden looks good on paper, but he's a weak campaigner. Party insiders have a long history of losing.

[Drlee]

This campaign reminds me of 68, combine Warren and Sanders supporters, and they'd be way ahead of Biden. So the progressives are ahead, but the establishment and the party insiders are attacking them.

So here is the thing. There really is no strong progressive movement in the US. There are some, and they, combined with blacks, form a strong presence in the democratic party. So during the primaries so-called progressives show well.

What party leaders feel is that these folks will not resonate with independents and would probably drive them to the republicans. Independents, and indeed most Americans, lean to the more conservative side anyway.

During a campaign, those who are at the edges of either party are at a disadvantage. Too far right and you can't get independents and too far left, same thing.

This election is being run, so far, in a time of relative economic stability. I say stability rather than prosperity because fewer and fewer Americans live in anything like prosperity. People who are not prosperous cannot afford to take any hits. Very few Americans have enough savings to sustain the loss of a job for a few weeks. Fewer have a stable retirement. If you look at the democratic message, it is about building social safety nets. If you look at the republican one it is "the sky is falling and we need to break things". Trump has masterfully blamed "others" for our economic woes, most of which are actually self-inflicted. It's the Mexicans. Its the Chinese. Its run away government regulation. (Who doesn't like fewer rules.) So the republican's message of more jobs and a stable economy is considerably more powerful than environmental concerns and multicultural nirvana.

I am pretty sure this election is already in the bag. The Democrats are in their usual circular firing squad. They are selling the wrong medicine. President Trump, for all of his faults and they are legion, is playing them like a cheap drum.

[Big Steve-3]

President Trump, for all of his faults and they are legion, is playing them like a cheap drum.