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By Tainari88
#15067508
BJ I am getting serious issues with the quote buttons. I hope also that you realize I am trying my best to answer you directly. Cést la vie...that is the way it goes.

That's a debate between the possible and the probable. I'm more inclined to talk about what is likely to happen.

Blackjack, you think something is likely based on what? Again, you think I have not noticed you never say or write about what you think should happen in American society after the hypothetical fall of the Republican and the Democratic party? After Trump has taken over and the whole thing collapses and so on and so forth? What happens next? I am interested in your perspective BJ because I am not someone with bad intuitions and bad analysis on others. No, Senor not me. You avoid that shit a lot. I wonder why? I can hypothesize, but in the end? If you never talk about it? That says a lot BJ. I never hide my agenda. I am open about it because I think it is the solution. That is what one wants in politics. Solutions. Why talk about problems that exist in society that have a political attachment to it--if the solutions are never presented? It is just bitching and complaining and not doing anything productive Relampaguito.




I'm not saying people should be reptilian. I'm just echoing Rapaille's assertion that the reptilian brain always wins. I don't think it should. That's one of the reasons I think the American left aren't much better than animals--constantly pushing hedonism as a value system. You rant on about the drugs, etc. Who has been pushing that lifestyle for the last 60 years in the United States? Pretty much the American left and their secular hedonism. Not unlike 19th Century Romanticism, today's left is also obsessed with emotions.

I don't care about liberals and especially American liberals and their druggy, free for all love culture. That has nothing to do with me BJ. I don't care how you are exposed to them day and night. I don't go for drugs, libertine styles of living life with irresponsibilities. I have an internal value system that I have chosen. My sister's rotten value system she chose for herself. I chose mine and it is not about free sex with all of the world, and irresponsible shit. My entire life has been about not only cleaning up my own mess but other people's messes. Leaving their kids to eat ice for dinner because they are on drug binges because they internalized a bunch of racist shit and have self loathing that they unload on their defenseless 3 year old sons. I clean up those people's psychological and emotional messes. I am not the left you hate so much. Maybe you see the entire left as animals? If that is the case? I am not going to be debating with someone who fails to see my humanity. What for? It is a waste of my time. And energy. I don't give a shit about what the liberal lefties you think are bringing low moral value to society are about? It has nothing to do with me. At all. Just like a Sinaloan drug dealer has nothing to do with ME. The drug dealer who is white in Ohio and killing people for profit, is a person who is doing it for the money and doesn't think beyond that narrow view. The Mexican Sinaloan one is doing the same thing. One is Mexican and one is American. Both are humans dealing drugs. They have nothing to do with me. You don't seem to get that the racism starts with making me responsible for being Puerto Rican, or Latin American and being Spanish speaking as having to deal with the actions or the thoughts of these people who are not the people who reflect my life values. You are doing that Relampaguito. You brought that shit into this debate about propaganda. You think I don't know why you do that? You got the infection my man....of the stereotypes and the bullshit. And it would serve you well to start dealing with it because when I first started debating you? You started with general statements about you having recommendations from your employer of getting computer engineers, coders from minority backgrounds to go and work....and there are so few that apply because why? The 'race' doesn't produce them? I told you.....UPR Mayaguez produces them so does Rio Piedras....thousands a year are produced over time. It has nothing to do with genes....only. It has to do with socialism and affordability. @Rancid is of Dominican background. Latino and also part African and from regular Santo Domingo stock. Lol. He did the high tech thing....if he could do it? With the 'wrong'genes then other can too...it has more to do with who has access to the right education, and supports for that...etc. than theories about 'Hispanics'don't have what it takes. It is BULLSHIT BJ. You don't think I know you blow off stuff that is hiding a very deeply discriminatory and resentful underbelly of shit you have your subconscious 'reptilian' fear based brain of yours.....You then say you don't want it to win? Yes you do, if you continue to hold on to those shitty thoughts BJ! What are you doing to change that mentality you got? If you don't want the reptilian to win? Please....don't insult me BJ. In social work I
have dealt with enough drug addicts and people making bad personal choices to last me a lifetime. People telling me bullshit stories about how they are ripe for change. I know exactly how people act when they want CHANGE. For real. Not lip service. It is very predictable. Lol. Ay Relampaguito...stop running from yourself. Do something to be transparent in your desires and your agenda. Say what you mean and mean what you say!

You used "love" for differences--an appeal to emotion. I simply pointed out some differences that are horrifying to many people. You don't seem to love political views that aren't consonant with yours. You used "comfortable" with these differences. I'm simply inquiring about why you would be comfortable with people who might see you as worth less than their livestock, because you are a woman? It's not particularly self-serving to find comfort in that sort of thing.

You need to read Erich Fromm. Because if you did read him? All these false narratives about appeals to emotion and the meaning of human suffering and the reason for differences would be clear to you. But you never read him and don't do that and yet hope to understand what my perspective is about? You don't BJ. Don't you get it BJ? Whether you are in an Arab society, a sexist society, a society that is of extreme prejudice? It is all HUMAN. All of it. Find out why humans are being super sexist and or racist or class conscious! Find the reasons. Because unlike you--I don't sit here and say to myself....I feel uncomfortable with this culture. They think I am an animal. I am not human. Because I am a female. Oh, I guess I got to run....away from a human culture that is terrible....No, BJ. Let me do this thing again. People adapt to their conditions. Viktor Frankl talked about it in "Man's Search for Meaning" and many others talk about it in many books about trying to figure out why genocides occur or why people commit suicide en masse or are doing incredibly puzzling things that defy logic in other people's civilizations or societies? WHY? That is what my profession is about. Can I ask you why you think that the lack of respect for women is inherent in such places? Do you agree with that shit BJ? As much as you spout about feminists and liberals and women wanting more....and you being very very worried about all that? Do you think women are the same as men? Or have you been debating and arguing with an inferior person all this time in your own head? Lol. Do you see how incredibly damaging all this is?

Come on now. You weren't around for the Spanish-American War. Imperialism is a double-edged sword. The modern technology of the imperialists has dramatically cut infant mortality, for example. No doubt you received vaccinations, etc. as a child. I'm fine with cutting Puerto Rico loose to be an independent country. No, I don't know how it "feels," but I have plenty of Irish relatives that hate the British for the same sort of thing, but readily traded their hard won sovereignty to the EU for some Euro dosh. The reptilian brain always wins.

You still don't get it do you? No, you don't get it at all. I doubt you ever will. When you want to talk to me about some complexity about 'loyalties'and why nationalistic thinkers like you are BJ don't get it at all? Start a thread with the title "Tainari I want to understand internationalism, and my Irish relatives letting the reptilian take over by the British.."You don't fool me BJ. You don't give a shit about Puerto Rico and Puerto Rican political status. You never did. Part of the lack of corazon. Lol. You are no Jack Delano for sure.


We don't NEED electricity. Human societies have only had electricity for the better part of 100 years. Modern running water and sewage are attributes of these imperial societies you loath. Before these systems, sewage was everywhere. That's still the case in some parts of the third world.

BJ, all human interactions whether they be imperialist or not are two way streets. The imperialists seek something from the colonial societies and the colonial societies interact with the imperial. I loathe the fact that they disrespect and try to control with fear and force and horrifically damaging coercion the colonized groups. Didn't you see "Spartacus"? It created terrible resentments. Judea and the story of the Passion of Jesus Christ is partly a story of rebellion and the Roman Empire. How could the old polytheistic Empire wind up being çonquered by a minority group's religion? The Jews. It has to with the complexity of human interaction. You have this view of might is right. The winner takes all and there are no influences going in two directions with human beings and their societies. That is not the case. Your interpretations of history lack depth BJ.

A cab driver in Cuba typically makes more money than a Cuban neurosurgeon. You may see that as equitable, but I think it puts socialist societies at high risk.

No, BJ the problem is that pro capitalist societies cry like spoilt children when they lose their little playgrounds and playthings and want revenge and to make sure many don't get ahead in the world if they don't play by the ones with the big guns rules. One thing I can tell you...the Cubans have a lot of education and empty bank accounts. The Americans got a lot of money and morons who think they can use guns as the only way to impose their will on the world....in the end? Being wealthy is not the reason for humanity's existence BJ. Despite all the messages in the USA society saying that it is. Lol. You don't want to hear the convos I have had with Cubans here...about what they think about Mexican society where they get very little formal educations and yet they think by having more money somehow they are better....it is not much different than the moronic American consumers who think their wealth makes them better human beings. Lol. Poverty doesn't make you better BJ, but neither does being rich. I hope you understand what I mean by that.

I don't believe I ever said any such thing. I was pointing out what Charles Murray raised in the Bell Curve. He turned out to be right. Rather than intelligently discussing his hypothesis, the media and many in academia simply slammed him as being a racist. He wrote "Coming Apart" to restate the hypothesis among whites so that there was simply no racial controversy in question--again showing the income distribution correlating highly with IQ. In many respects, that effect is amplified in a knowledge-based economy. So the amplitude of that difference is exaggerated now.

You should study this guy...a Dutch based researcher on poverty and IQ and so on....because your theories are false BJ. The video is called:
Poverty isn't a lack of character its a lack of cash by Rutger Bergman:



The Cubans got a lack of cash. Lol. Not intelligence, not character, not because a lot of Cubans are black...no...it has to do with who controls the cash and why it aint flowing into the Cuban doctor's pockets? Is it because Castro died in 2016 and he alone made it stop? Is it that the USA government put an embargo on Cuban currency and the bankers don't allow Cubans to have open trade with the entire world without sanctions because their trumped up need to control the world includes making sure society doesn't work unless it is a strictly capitalist based model that they control? Hmmm. There I think the Americans are into the reptilian brain for sure with that shit. I do. If socialism sucks? Let it go without any interferences. See where it goes? Or is it such a terrible threat that they have to do everything in its power to avoid it? How is it going? That thing? Who knows BJ.....the young ones are pulling on the socialism thing hard....capitalism is not all it is cracked up to be.....and they don't think it is because the Blacks are low IQ and the Latinos are invading from South of the Border...it is because Jeff Bezos is in Amazon.com upping the productivity levels all the time...see how much he can squeeze out of his model....using workers as batteries for it. A very old concept. And unless the wealth starts flowing down? They won't be backing that model for long. Regardless of what Cuba does or doesn't do.




Where have I done this? You've had this conversation with an imaginary Relampaguito in your own mind, and seem to think that I have asserted everything that you've conjured up in your own head.

No, BJ, you never state what your agenda is for blowing up the Republican party. You never do. Be fearless my man. Because I am. I don't care about my socialism being public or my pro independence and my past that you don't know a thing about either BJ. All I know is when I am booking out of this world I did live my life according to my principles. All of them. The politics, the moral code, the internationalism, the sense of loving and expanding the corazon to humanity. And going out being consistent. That is my goal. What is yours? Never say what you truly believe because you live in California Senor in a sea of liberals who are punishing the right for not being liberal? If you are frightened of your own society? Where is your higher functions BJ? Be fearless....If the agenda is good? Nothing to fear....if you know that the liberals will identify you as a fascist? But that is who you are? Go for it. I don't agree. But? If you are never out there? Because you got too much to lose? You won't make any progress. I don't care that my political party loses all the time. I am only concerned with if the principles I have lived by are consistent with my actions, thoughts and beliefs that influence important life choices. That is all any one of us can hope for BJ.


Of course. After all, I brought the Taliban up in the context of you finding love in differences and being comfortable with them.


Who is distorting my thoughts? Do you truly think my love is about the Taliban? You are a big distorter my man. Lol. Socialism is not about an Islamic conservative religion. If you study Afghanistan and Pakistan and many other nations and why the Taliban came to power in those nations? Is it a simple story without any human complexity? Yes or no? Lol. You know the answer to that. Start realizing all of human history and nations have complexity. And you might arrive at understanding my points of view on human history BJ. And not ideas about "Leftist Animals". Ay Dios que voy a hacer contigo hombre?

I'm not overly concerned about that; however, I do not think the US should embrace immigration of people who are unlikely to assimilate.

I don't care about assimilation at all. I think acculturation is the most humane practice. Assimilation is for the birds.

Again, Rapaille says the reptilian brain always wins. I noticed you overlooked Harvey Weinstein, Jeffrey Epstein, and the big media houses (and the Clintons) covering up for them.

BJ, there are so many abusers all over the place. Too many of them and too little time. But I mentioned Fox news because they broke the law suit sexual harrassment issue before the white liberals with 'me too" and company. They were the ones being forced to commit low acts in order to remain in the career advancement mode...as they criticized liberals for being 'feminists'yet they had to sue to get the creep off their backs....due to sexually based forms of abusing power...hypocritical indeed.

You are the one asserting this egalitarian notion and that you accept all these people as they are--except perhaps for Donald Trump. This philosophy is all well and nice for people who don't mean you any harm, but for people who do mean you harm, this sort of philosophy is quite dangerous.

BJ, you sound like a slaveowner from way on back...asserting this notion of slaves being equal to others who are not slaves....asserting women are equal and should have the vote, asserting blacks are equal and got to let them vote, asserting that injuns are human, asserting...equality in history is always a dangerous notion. Don't you remember Gracchus and the conspiracy of equals BJ? Way back in France at the dawn of socialist thought? The equality scene is always incredibly dangerous for the ones fighting against it. Lol! :lol:

All kinds of people mean me harm. How to cope with them? Donald Trump doesn't mean me harm? Yes, he doesn't according to you? The man reversed his decision to wipe the Rican debt and get PR off its downward spiral because he dances to the beat of the banker drummer. He is doing damage all the way...to favor himself. He threatens to withhold money from Puerto Rico unless it caves to his desires. Even if people are hurt everyday by his actions. By a lot of problems. The most conservative right wing of the Rican governors whom he 'semi supported' got his ass kicked out of office because he got Trumpy...with his nasty anti social comments and had the temerity to say that someone would be doing him a favor if they shot Carmen Cruz in the head.....Lol. The Puerto Rican people hit the street for weeks, and protested and put such pressure on that Donald Trumpesque style of speech? that Ricky had to resign. Had to go. The Americans? No. Weak people and weak morals. They accept shit that is unacceptable. Why? Because they are fear based reptilian thralled people. And it will cost them a lot.

How do you mean that I don't see it?

What are you talking about BJ? You don't see a lot of things. This is about propaganda. What is propaganda but having people herded into a way of thought that you manipulate for the purposes of some agenda that is meant to persuade as @annatar1914 has stated.


]I work in high tech. You have this idea of me as some sort of Caudillo. That's not a common trait among tech workers.

Caudillo? Lol. You? You are too uptight to be Latin American by far....BJ. I don't count that against you. Nothing about you is Latin American. A strongman you think I think you? I think you are a man in a sea of liberals in Northern California, who wants something orderly, American, puristic and who knows what else? You picked the wrong state for that BJ. Your state is the most diverse and the one filled with the most immigrants. Also the one with the most Pacific Rim influences, Latin infuences, everything but your average white person's influences. Lol. Caudillo....no, Senor.

They also go to war with each other, which she didn't cover until later in her career. [quote]

They do. They eat meat ocassionally too. Not complete vegetarians. But it is infrequent. The wars. They would not go for 20 years of continual wars. Too wasteful and too much energy wasted. Chimps wasted. Got to be balanced in our insanity. Like Harari stated...'never underestimate human stupidity'. In history? Human beings are far more stupid than chimps regarding wars.


Yeah, what the hell? I said, "As I've explained to you many times, Charles Murray in his Bell Curve was not trying to say, "Hey, black people are stupid, so let's not bother educating them." You turn around and parrot the EXACT OPPOSITE of what I said as though I had said that. I didn't say all blacks are stupid, and neither did Charles Murray. What is it about people with your political disposition that you immediately infer things that are not said, not implied, and which have been explained to you over and over? Can you just deal with what I said and not what you would have liked me to have said because it's convenient for your political argument?

No BJ, too many paragraphs you have written over the years...and fights with many others on here I have read...you believe in some kind of inherent hierarchy of innate abilities. Everything is adaptation. Deal with that well. What affects adaptation? Everything affects it. A person's diets, how the mother treats herself during pregnancy, a baby being breastfed or not, the child's early imprints of thoughts and emotions, if there are books in the household available, if the mother talks and reads to the child, if the child has genetic predispositions, if the child is perceived a certain way by a community, so many things go into adaptation. Again? Is it about race? Has the society fully given all the factors a real thorough going over and made a difference to level it all out fairly for all people. Listen to Bregman.....has anyone really thought about the possibility that people who are in deeply fear based psychological states going to be able to adapt well to many things? So many things are not really measured BJ. Just assumptions about why a group doesn't fit a criteria....Again you need corazon to get past it. Get one soon BJ. Or you might not be able to see it. Ever.

Indeed. There is more genetic diversity among sub-Saharan Africans than among European and Asian populations.


There is diversity in all groups. That is natural. There is diversity and what does it mean? I am tired of people boxing other groups in BJ. They are old, tired, horrible arguments. Some Dave guy from Chicago years ago....went on and on with me years ago in here with "But the Puerto Ricans are below average IQ Tainari....your ethnic group is not as intelligent as Jews. Maybe a few of you can be saved...the high IQ ones.....like a few.....but the majority are dunces." Lol. Such a fine man he was...lol. Racist and so on...but he hid behind the Bell Curve....being unbiased. What they should be doing if they truly believed all that shit? Change the poor's circumstances. Get involved. Go out there and deal with educating youth that are struggling. I don't believe in armchair theories BJ.

And, once again, I never said any such thing. This is a problem for you. You are assuming that someone who doesn't agree with you must hold a particular opinion, when that isn't the case. You end up arguing against a straw man of your own construction. There are more than two points of view in the world. It's not just your point of view, or the other one.

No, BJ, you make excuses for that Trump man president. You make excuses for that man's behavior...Why? Because you want to destroy the establishment. Why? Give me your agenda of why you defend that man? What is the next step after the burning down of both parties? Tell me...once the swamp is drained? What do you want to see? Give me an answer BJ. Otherwise I will think you are hiding your politics. And that for me? Means you have not gotten over that Liberal Specter you got there in Northern California.

I happen to be for school choice. There are a lot of people on the left against it.


Forget about debating school choice. It is about propaganda. Propaganda about bad educations for minorities is always problematic.

roll: You aren't even capable of listening to what I've said without extrapolating meanings or interpolating points I didn't make. I'm pretty widely travelled. I have seen a lot. My trip to the United Arab Emirates last year was interesting for precisely that reason. It never occurred to me that a country would have taxicabs driven by women that are strictly for women per Islamic prohibitions on women being with another man that isn't their husband. I've seen a lot more than you think I have.


You see with what? Distrust? Horror? Indifference? Or with a curiosity about human societies and why they are the way they are? Ves? Lo que digo BJ?

There's also a subtext of why Donald Trump is going to win again. Social media censorship cannot change that.

I don't care about that BJ. I just think that Donald Trump is not someone who is a good statesman or good at running a country. He will wind up having some issues with his lack of predictability. I already stated who might have a beef with him because of it.

You keep backing that slimeball of a man. I don't care BJ. But don't think I don't notice what your excuses are about. I do.

Fear.
Last edited by Tainari88 on 16 Feb 2020 04:32, edited 2 times in total.
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By annatar1914
#15067511
Hindsite wrote:To a Christian, like myself, the "Reptilian Brain" must refer back to the great dragon "that old serpent, called the devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world." (Rev. 12:9)


It's interesting that it came out to be called that, from evolution-influenced biologists, but the animal part of our nature, fallen and confused as to reality, really is the avenue through which the Enemy strikes at us.
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By Tainari88
#15067512
annatar1914 wrote:It's interesting that it came out to be called that, from evolution-influenced biologists, but the animal part of our nature, fallen and confused as to reality, really is the avenue through which the Enemy strikes at us.


It is interesting that archetypes are about. Rapaille mentions them. In many cultures the same type of archetypes show up and they are given meanings.

The serpent and the tree of knowledge. The feathered serpent in Aztec mythology. It is the mixture and blending of two opposites the snake is close to the ground and it represents what is earthbound and it lives off the light of the sun. Reptiles are cold blooded and rely on heat and light to gain energy. The feathered is an eagle. It lives its life in the sky. The opposite of earth bound. What are the natures of human beings? A combination of flying above the earthbound and being always bound to the earth, seeking heat and energy and being without wings...impeded by sheer instinct only....the nature of duality of human beings. Good and evil. Light and dark. Both fighting it out....for the Aztecs? By fusing both together you are able to conquer human limited thinking. The feathered serpent is about duality being harmonic. Both as one.

The bible talks about the tree of knowledge. It requires a falling from grace to notice it.

It requires fighting both natures in ourselves at different times in our lives...we fight the dark and we fight the light...only when you realize the dark lives because the purpose of the light is to contrast the dark....and both live in this world together always bound together by the nature of being human.

If you are Christian it is about original sin and how one frees oneself from that @annatar1914 the nature of divine grace.

Lol.

Propaganda. The way society is trying to manipulate us all.

Lol. I see through the schemes.
#15067513
Tainari88 wrote:It is interesting that archetypes are about. Rapaille mentions them. In many cultures the same type of archetypes show up and they are given meanings.

The serpent and the tree of knowledge. The feathered serpent in Aztec mythology. It is the mixture and blending of two opposites the snake is close to the ground and it represents what is earthbound and it lives off the light of the sun. Reptiles are cold blooded and rely on heat and light to gain energy. The feathered is an eagle. It lives its life in the sky. The opposite of earth bound. What are the natures of human beings? A combination of flying above the earthbound and being always bound to the earth, seeking heat and energy and being without wings...impeded by sheer instinct only....the nature of duality of human beings. Good and evil. Light and dark. Both fighting it out....for the Aztecs? By fusing both together you are able to conquer human limited thinking. The feathered serpent is about duality being harmonic. Both as one.

The bible talks about the tree of knowledge. It requires a falling from grace to notice it.

It requires fighting both natures in ourselves at different times in our lives...we fight the dark and we fight the light...only when you realize the dark lives because the purpose of the light is to contrast the dark....and both live in this world together always bound together by the nature of being human.

If you are Christian it is about original sin and how one frees oneself from that @annatar1914 the nature of divine grace.

Lol.

Propaganda. The way society is trying to manipulate us all.

Lol. I see through the schemes.


Very true. Now, there are those who manipulate those archetypes and those symbols, and those who employ archetypes and symbols to help people gain some insight in this world. And on a whole other level are the people who speak sometimes in what was called in esoteric circles the world over; ''the twilight language'', the ''language of the birds'', and the ''green language'', but I've said enough of that. Two sorts of Adepts out there, those who want to force the cosmos to do their bidding, bend nature to their will and display what is called ''Magick'' (today we might be tempted to call it ''modern technology'', or what that comes from in origin), and then there's those who simply live with the natural gifts and talents which the Good Lord has given them, and they practice an ''Art'' in their daily living.
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By blackjack21
#15067520
Tainari88 wrote:Again, you think I have not noticed you never say or write about what you think should happen in American society after the hypothetical fall of the Republican and the Democratic party?

I'm talking about the establishment factions of neoliberal and neoconservative. The RNC and DNC are just corporations like Burger King or the American Lung Association. First, I think Trump's America first agenda needs to be actualized. He talks a lot about it, but I don't believe in globalism and I don't think that's in America's best interest. It may be for some Americans, just as some Brits would prefer the UK be subsumed into a supranational entity. The problem with globalism is that there is no representation. There is no democracy. The embrace of globalism has geared politicians in many countries to rule against the will of their national populace, and deliberately.

Tainari88 wrote:You avoid that shit a lot. I wonder why?

I'm not a socialist, so as a general rule I think there are larger forces in play than just political policy. Earlier today I was noting America's role as a consumer economy and the number of car companies of various countries.

US: GM, Ford, Chrysler.
Germany: Volkswagen, Audi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche.
Japan: Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Subaru, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Isuzu, Suzuki.

Japan wouldn't have 8 car companies without access to Western markets. Germany probably wouldn't have 5 car companies. This has depended on the American market being open, and the American market being open was done primarily to bolster countries in an alliance against the Soviet Union, which no longer exists. Hence, we've been running for 30 years now on a platform that benefits other nations with no consideration to the US since we aren't fighting a common enemy anymore. It's still very difficult for American automakers to penetrate the market in Japan, Germany, China, etc. After the fall of the Soviet Union, this policy was implemented and the US political establishment promised more and higher paying jobs to everyone. That materialized for high tech workers like me. For manufacturing workers, they got fucked. The elite will say such things as, "Those jobs aren't coming back," but that is only an assertion contingent on a predicate of "as long as we keep our markets open without any tariffs." That's one aspect that is changing now. Working class Americans are pretty clear now that it makes no sense to outsource American jobs to a communist oligarchy in China.

Tainari88 wrote:I never hide my agenda.

I've openly said that I'm both a nationalist and a capitalist. My position is that capitalism depends on nation states to underwrite corporations and enforce contracts. Globalism is a fiction, because there is no global sovereign entity that could do the same thing.

Tainari88 wrote:Solutions. Why talk about problems that exist in society that have a political attachment to it--if the solutions are never presented?

The problem is the globalist establishment. The solution is removing them from the corridors of power.

Tainari88 wrote:It has nothing to do with me. At all.

Whoa. Wait a second. One minute you are telling me I should embrace all people and learn about there differences and not be afraid of them, and learn to love their differences and be comfortable with them; then, in the next breath they have absolutely nothing to do with you. If you haven't noticed, there are a lot of those types of people. Have you learned to love them and their differences, or do they have nothing to do with you?

Tainari88 wrote:You brought that shit into this debate about propaganda. You think I don't know why you do that? You got the infection my man....of the stereotypes and the bullshit. And it would serve you well to start dealing with it because when I first started debating you? You started with general statements about you having recommendations from your employer of getting computer engineers, coders from minority backgrounds to go and work....and there are so few that apply because why?

I never said there were zero black or Hispanic coders. They are just fairly rare. I also told you that diversity and inclusion programs are front and center where I work. We are financially incentivized to bring people in from minority or underrepresented backgrounds.

Tainari88 wrote:@Rancid is of Dominican background. Latino and also part African and from regular Santo Domingo stock. Lol. He did the high tech thing....if he could do it?

Sure. So is my next door neighbors brother-in-law.

Tainari88 wrote:With the 'wrong'genes then other can too...it has more to do with who has access to the right education, and supports for that...etc. than theories about 'Hispanics'don't have what it takes.

I didn't say Hispanics don't have what it takes. I work with them all the time. They are mostly Spanish ancestry if from Central and South America. I work with many people from Spain as well. I simply pointed out the Bell Curve's points about IQ distribution. One of the points is that there is a central tendency for lower IQs in black and Hispanic populations, and with higher standard deviation. That doesn't mean all blacks and all Hispanics are stupid--not by a longshot. In fact, the higher standard deviation means you may find a greater number of genius (and complete moron) IQs per capita. The Bell Curve was dealing with the idea that jobs and income in a knowledge-based economy favor high IQ people. So people with lower IQs suffer. Some of that is due to socio-economic factors, and can be attenuated by policy. Some of it is not, and is probably hereditary. There is a strong case for hereditary intelligence.

Tainari88 wrote:You need to read Erich Fromm. Because if you did read him?

Not since high school.

Tainari88 wrote:Can I ask you why you think that the lack of respect for women is inherent in such places?

I assume cultural norms evolved due to resource constraints and the relative strengths of men and women. Even in advanced societies, women cost more in the healthcare system than men do. To try to hide that difference, ObamaCare provides men with gynecological coverage among other things. Biologically, men and women are different.

Tainari88 wrote:Do you think women are the same as men?

No.

Tainari88 wrote:Or have you been debating and arguing with an inferior person all this time in your own head?

Once again, you have made the inference of an ordinal rank when I have made no such assertion. What's better? Pork tenderloin or beef tenderloin? Are they equal? No. Is one horrible and the other one great? No. Probably beef tenderloin will cost you more, but pork tenderloin is pretty damn good.

Tainari88 wrote:Do you see how incredibly damaging all this is?

I see how the knee-jerk inference of ordinal ranking reinforces the Marxist class struggle to the point that even biological difference is denied even though it is patently obvious.

Tainari88 wrote:You don't give a shit about Puerto Rico and Puerto Rican political status. You never did.

That's an odd assertion. I'm probably one of the few people you know who has read the Insular Cases. I think it's fair to say the fate of the people of Puerto Rico doesn't induce an overwhelming sense of pathos in me. However, the status of Puerto Rico is front and center, and something I find rather fascinating. It's surprising to me that many others don't. However, you have to keep in mind that the US had no welfare state, no fractional reserve banking, no income tax until it started building an empire. It is in fact why @late and his ilk waste their time on appeals to democracy or the Republic with me when they understand so little of what the US was founded on--believing modern propaganda threads and ignoring the written constitution and its evolution. Outside of an income tax, the US government can raise tariffs, imposts, and excises uniformly and capitations apportioned. That means in capitation terms, you'd pay the same capitation tax as Mike Bloomberg if paid directly. It creates a government where every voter has exactly the same capital interest in policy, and the government is intrinsically limited.

Tainari88 wrote:Didn't you see "Spartacus"?

Of course, and I could give you a walking tour of Rome as I know the city pretty well.

Tainari88 wrote:It created terrible resentments. Judea and the story of the Passion of Jesus Christ is partly a story of rebellion and the Roman Empire. How could the old polytheistic Empire wind up being çonquered by a minority group's religion? The Jews.

Well, that is a very interesting point. The Romans smashed the Jewish homeland and scattered their people everywhere. Yet, almost 2000 years later, once again we have Israel and a bunch of people who have maintained an ethno-religious identity spanning well over a thousand years. That's why atheists just crack me up.

Tainari88 wrote:You have this view of might is right.

Oh, so you've heard me provide passionate defenses of the Soviet Union, Communist China, and Nazi Germany? Refresh my memory, because I don't seem to recall that.

Tainari88 wrote:Your interpretations of history lack depth BJ.

Umm hmm... and that lack of depth is why I was the only one arguing against gay marriage by bringing up the origins of marriage in Octavian Caeasar's reign and Caesar's intent... while so many people here were rambling on about "equality" and "love" and so forth.

Tainari88 wrote:Poverty doesn't make you better BJ, but neither does being rich.

Of course. There are a lot of miserable rich people, and rich drug addicts, etc.

Tainari88 wrote:Poverty isn't a lack of character its a lack of cash by Rutger Bergman:

Lottery winners from poor backgrounds tend to blow their winnings and end up right back in poverty. It also happens to poor people who make it big in sports or popular music. Don't get me wrong, I don't think being ultra rich is something to aspire too. If I were to end up like Michael Bloomberg, I'd think I fucked up somewhere along the way.

Tainari88 wrote:.it is because Jeff Bezos is in Amazon.com upping the productivity levels all the time...see how much he can squeeze out of his model...

Well, you won't get a big argument from me there. Amazon.com is amazingly innovative, but they are also squeezing their low IQ/low skill/low wage workers. It's a different thing though if you are programming robots for them.

Tainari88 wrote:And not ideas about "Leftist Animals".

Come on now. You know that was directly referring to propagating hedonism, recreational sex, drug use, "life is just a buzz", etc.

Tainari88 wrote:I don't care about assimilation at all. I think acculturation is the most humane practice. Assimilation is for the birds.

It's a lot easier to exploit people who don't assimilate, which is why the establishment doesn't encourage it.

As it is, you've worn me out Azuquita. I'll have to come back to this later. :tired:
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By Tainari88
#15067656
blackjack21 wrote:
It's a lot easier to exploit people who don't assimilate, which is why the establishment doesn't encourage it.

As it is, you've worn me out Azuquita. I'll have to come back to this later. :tired:


I read your entire set of replies. I know exactly what I will come back with to each one of them. But I can't help smiling about you being worn out with me. You quote bomb practically everyone in this website and tire them out with your Relampaguito ways. And now I wore you out eh? I wrote that entire reply set with two people calling me incessantly and a little son being frustrated by Legos and asking for my advice how to help him with it insistently, and rice cooking in the kitchen. No time for complete focus like I would like. I think only @Potemkin has gotten my absolute complete attention and focus when conversing with me offline. If I did that with you? I think I would wear you out terribly with forcing your gymnastics to the point of having to lay out an entire complex set of plans formed from your early childhood all through your present 50's and have to do it with a lot of detail and focus.

I am relentless and focused when I am concentrating Relampaguito.

I get to the point when I am no longer in my body almost---my entire mind is in some complex set of thoughts figuring out all the angles like a chess board person who is at the top of their game.

You are pro nationalism and against globalism eh? You can be pro that. But you got to see that your sistema (el capitalismo) has moved out of nation-states in isolation from each other. They moved out of that. The model as shifted. Got to see how one copes with that shift.

Your theory that if people are assimilated they are harder to exploit. No, that theory is totally false. I wonder can I ask you a question and a favor for me? Can you figure out for me what the differences are between acculturation and assimilation? Because they are different. Give me a concrete examples of why you think assimilation is best for not being exploited? Is it speaking English? Being born and raised in the USA? Being part of this society and having your entire life invested in American culture and society? Or is it having the right socioeconomic cultural capital? (Look up the term cultural capital in Jay MacLeod's terminology (a prominent sociologist who studied groups from a Boston neighborhood) it is called Aint No Makin' It".

BJ, you are a coder and rarely have put in enormous efforts of time, thought and analysis in the underlying causes of poverty, underlying problems with exploitation of workers, gender inequalities and how people who want to either transform, destroy or replace capitalist models have wrestled with these questions for years and whole careers.

It is normal for you to have deficits in thinking in those terms because they are not about your perspectives. But that is why one engages in these debates in the first place? To counterpoint the falls in contrasting points of view in discussions.

I prefer discussions over fights. Fights all devolve into shouting matches and pointed fingers of---you are wrong and I am right! Lol.

Who wants to win over people one loves and respects in life? Not me. I want to learn from them always.

You learn from opponents. And they learn from you. A positive in spending time with people. The people that get upset with you for not agreeing with them? Are people who need to control others or they can't live with themselves.

They need to realize? The only person you can control fully in this world? Is yourself. If you dedicate your time to trying to control others all the time...because it is the only way you feel validated? You won't wind up with fulfilling relationships in this world. Your marriage falls apart, your grown children hate controlling parents telling them what to do all day and every day, your boss resents you and your co-workers can't wait for you to leave the office for the day.

Let people think and be who they are...the beginnings of understanding why you must tolerate difference.

The world never evolves around just you or just me. It is a big world. Let it be.....let it be...like the Paul McCartney song....

I am amazed how people get along and love each other despite their differences....Maybe I'm amazed at how you love me all the time....I can hear that song in my head @blackjack21 ......I am so lucky, I have had some amazing human beings who have loved me all the time...

Be back later when your mind is up to this. Happy Sunday!

He might be a bit of a hippy eh? But he sure does write nice songs eh? ;)

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By Tainari88
#15067691
annatar1914 wrote:Very true. Now, there are those who manipulate those archetypes and those symbols, and those who employ archetypes and symbols to help people gain some insight in this world. And on a whole other level are the people who speak sometimes in what was called in esoteric circles the world over; ''the twilight language'', the ''language of the birds'', and the ''green language'', but I've said enough of that. Two sorts of Adepts out there, those who want to force the cosmos to do their bidding, bend nature to their will and display what is called ''Magick'' (today we might be tempted to call it ''modern technology'', or what that comes from in origin), and then there's those who simply live with the natural gifts and talents which the Good Lord has given them, and they practice an ''Art'' in their daily living.


Technology is technology. If we have living cells and that is all we have in our bodies we are definitely a product of nature. You know when I gave birth to my son I was amazed, surprised and completely intrigued on how a woman's body is innately knowledge filled about what to do to give birth to that child. Sure one has to work hard on labor and giving birth, but the body is almost on auto pilot. It knows what is needed.

Nature is incredibly wise and the way human beings are made, shaped and formed? Is fascinating. A delicate dance between the father and the mother and their information and it produces this new life with a new set of instructions and it goes through the reptilian past, the amphibian, the primate, the entire spectrum of history of the species in those nine months....and voila! Here comes something new....

Nature is just about the most awe inspiring system the world can study. Yet, we think we are as great as that? We need a bit of humility @annatar1914 .

My son instinctually seeks my warmth and my ability to give him security...children sense that tremendous bond with the mother. I am so interested in how deep it goes with children. They know who their mothers are...and nothing changes that. But as a mother you have a chance to influence that child for the good or the bad. It is up to each mother to make choices that are the best for the well being of their offspring.

A very heavy and important responsibility. One that should be fun true, but also it is a serious thing to influence a small child. It is both at once. Like the duality I mentioned.
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By blackjack21
#15067743
Tainari88 wrote:But you got to see that your sistema (el capitalismo) has moved out of nation-states in isolation from each other. They moved out of that. The model as shifted. Got to see how one copes with that shift.

Corporations depend on nation-states for their very existence, but have been allowed not to show allegiance to the states that gave birth to them. I think that is a major policy error, and one that needs to be corrected. For example, Google being allowed to help the Chinese spy on their citizens is absolutely deplorable to me. This should not be allowed at all.

Tainari88 wrote:Your theory that if people are assimilated they are harder to exploit. No, that theory is totally false.

You think there is no difference in exploiting a resident citizen and a resident illegal alien? What makes you think that is the case? What do you do when someone doesn't pay you? Go tell law enforcement that you're an illegal alien and you're not being paid because they think they can get away with exploiting illegal immigrants?

Tainari88 wrote:I wonder can I ask you a question and a favor for me? Can you figure out for me what the differences are between acculturation and assimilation? Because they are different. Give me a concrete examples of why you think assimilation is best for not being exploited?

I would look at Italian-Americans as an example of assimilation and many, but not all African-Americans as acculturation. I don't think acculturation of African-Americans has been a good thing, precisely because it leaves them without some of what MacLeod is calling "cultural capital." Gangsta culture is an excellent example. In Europe moreso than in the United States, Jews also retain a separate identity and have a long history of oppression as a result.

Tainari88 wrote:Is it speaking English?

That is a big part of it.

Tainari88 wrote:Being born and raised in the USA?

Not really. Lots of people are able to work well within America who have come from other countries.

Tainari88 wrote:BJ, you are a coder and rarely have put in enormous efforts of time, thought and analysis in the underlying causes of poverty, underlying problems with exploitation of workers, gender inequalities and how people who want to either transform, destroy or replace capitalist models have wrestled with these questions for years and whole careers.

It is normal for you to have deficits in thinking in those terms because they are not about your perspectives. But that is why one engages in these debates in the first place? To counterpoint the falls in contrasting points of view in discussions.

Well, that's true enough, but they do put you through psychology, sociology, organizational behavior, industrial psychology and so forth as part of a business degree. So I have a familiarity with some of these concepts even though it isn't something I use on a regular basis.

Tainari88 wrote:Let people think and be who they are...the beginnings of understanding why you must tolerate difference.

That's a nice sentiment, but it doesn't address when it doesn't work. Gangsta culture for example isn't going to help you get a good paying job. Doing drugs isn't particularly good either. Are you just going to tolerate all these things? That's one of the things Charles Murray addressed in his book Coming Apart--the idea that the upper classes live socially much more conservative lives, but are now tolerant of people who don't and whose lives are much worse off for it. He characterizes that sort of tolerance as a loss of confidence in ones culture rather than as something wholly benign.
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By Tainari88
#15067906
blackjack21 wrote:I'm talking about the establishment factions of neoliberal and neoconservative. The RNC and DNC are just corporations like Burger King or the American Lung Association. First, I think Trump's America first agenda needs to be actualized. He talks a lot about it, but I don't believe in globalism and I don't think that's in America's best interest. It may be for some Americans, just as some Brits would prefer the UK be subsumed into a supranational entity. The problem with globalism is that there is no representation. There is no democracy. The embrace of globalism has geared politicians in many countries to rule against the will of their national populace, and deliberately.

Trump's America First agenda is a lie. If he was a consistent nationalist he would not have worn ties made in China, after talking shit about China forever he lies about being loyal to America first. He had undocumented immigrants employed in his businesses for years and years. He did not purge them only after he might be scrutinized. His casinos went bust and he had a lot of problems getting loans from bankers in NYC among other places like New Jersey. Globalism is not in America's best interest BJ. But haven't you been paying attention to what capitalism cares about? It is not a nationalist agenda Relampaguito. It never has been. They have been paying the Mexicans shit wages forever....and the Malays, and the Indonesians, and the Chinese, and the Indians, Bangladeshis, etc. Why can't they treat the American working class the same BJ? They already control both parties the DNC and the RNC and they got all the ex senators who exited the system on the Hill on the payroll--what incentive do they have to be loyal to the USA average voter and white worker? They don't. Remember what I posted about Malcolm X's comments about the chickens coming home to roost? Presidents getting shot and assassinated? Is not a Latin American only phenomenon....if you practice these immoral and bad values abroad? Eventually the bad values come home to roost. The Capitalist system is not bound by nationalism at all. Selling a brand name like Samsung, or Pepsi Cola or Frito-Lays or Apple or anything really is about reaching the masses. All of them. Not just the ones who are European or working class Eurocentric American either. The trick is to sell to all of them. Have access to all of them. Rake in the maximum return on investment as possible. Once those markets are saturated they turn into seekers of where they did not squeeze hard enough. The USA. I am amazed at how naive you nationalists are about the nature of international, multinational capitalist enterprises, banks, investment instruments. You think they got to be loyal to a national interest. THEY DON'T. If they thought that way they would have followed the traditional model from General Motors, etc in Detroit and kept paying the workers well and giving them security and never would have pulled up stakes and went to the PRC to invest or take the assembly of the cars to Mexico. Cheap labor costs attracted them. Not being loyal to a nationality or its workers BJ.
How do you force them to give up their tentacles in all nations that they have their tentacles in? Trump tried to do some strong-arming and basically he is alienating many of these companies with some exceptions here and there. The globalists are not into America First. They never were BJ. Understand your own system before you try to go to war with the ones who shaped economics and policy all this time. That is something the nationalists are awful at. They are so damn tunnel visioned about circling the wagons they fail to see who they are fighting. They use these tactics of blaming Mexicans, Central American low skilled workers without work permits as scapegoats so the working class people of the USA of all backgrounds rally around the flag and get distracted from the globalist capitalist agenda that is going full force ahead.

I'm not a socialist, so as a general rule I think there are larger forces in play than just political policy. Earlier today I was noting America's role as a consumer economy and the number of car companies of various countries.

US: GM, Ford, Chrysler.
Germany: Volkswagen, Audi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche.
Japan: Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Subaru, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Isuzu, Suzuki.

Socialists are great analyzers of the engines of capital. Most well informed Marxist based thinkers are. So as a socialist you got to study economics. They won't let you go without it. Lol. It is just an economics that doesn't favor wealthy pro capitalist bankers. That is the core of it.
Japan wouldn't have 8 car companies without access to Western markets. Germany probably wouldn't have 5 car companies. This has depended on the American market being open, and the American market being open was done primarily to bolster countries in an alliance against the Soviet Union, which no longer exists. Hence, we've been running for 30 years now on a platform that benefits other nations with no consideration to the US since we aren't fighting a common enemy anymore. It's still very difficult for American automakers to penetrate the market in Japan, Germany, China, etc. After the fall of the Soviet Union, this policy was implemented and the US political establishment promised more and higher paying jobs to everyone. That materialized for high tech workers like me. For manufacturing workers, they got fucked. The elite will say such things as, "Those jobs aren't coming back," but that is only an assertion contingent on a predicate of "as long as we keep our markets open without any tariffs." That's one aspect that is changing now. Working class Americans are pretty clear now that it makes no sense to outsource American jobs to a communist oligarchy in China.

The reason BJ the American market had been open is because it got rich after WWII when the economies of Europe and Japan, China, etc were in shambles. As well as the colonial wars of WWII in Africa and the dictatorships of Latin America and bad economic policies of the corporate class depressing those economies. America positioned herself for dominance. Japan, PRC, Europe and even Africa and Latin America have been gaining ground recently as well as India. So? It is becoming multipolar based economics. It is shifting....the USA unless it deals with specific changes will lose markets. It is not producing large amounts of well educated, multilingual young people in PhD programs BJ. They have to recruit from abroad. Not because Americans are low IQ :lol: but because they have not invested in infrastructure, public education and so on and allowed private banks to put people of middle class background off of paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loan debt in order to obtain middle class technology, science, etc sons and daughters. They are cutting their own heads off in that competition due to allowing banks to raid housing prices, college tuition prices, and affecting entire generations of young people's futures. Remember what the video said about what is poverty? Scarcity Mentality--being in debt to the tune of 100k for a student loan that is a BA and it won't get you out of your problem of low entry level wages....can't afford a terminal degree? Got to keep going and so on....the economy is not being done in a socialistic way. Because the Right hates it. Even though? It probably is the only remedy for the rapacious greed of the Wall street, international capitalist, banker, hedge fund investor, etc class of people...the remedy to discipline the fossil fuel industry folks and the rest of them....the entire situation is volatile BJ. But? People keep believing in a BACK IN TIME remedy like nationalism. The USA glory days of world domination. Should have gone socialist way before this problem got so big. Invested in education, infrastructure, scaled back waste filled useless war spending, spanked some bankers, got Citizens United reversed, taxed the uber rich well, controlled the leaks in spending in the budget on shit that doesn't give you decent returns on your dollar in terms of job creation and innovation in R &D. Study Chinese government crackdowns on private corporations buying off government representatives, etc. BUT NO. Did not do that in time. Now the heat is on. That is reality BJ.

I've openly said that I'm both a nationalist and a capitalist. My position is that capitalism depends on nation states to underwrite corporations and enforce contracts. Globalism is a fiction, because there is no global sovereign entity that could do the same thing.

The USA gov't doesn't underwrite or enforce contracts BJ. The corporations are running the government. They have for all intents and purposes taken over the function of the government. They are not nationalists. They also are monopoly capitalists who are not interested in sharing market share in some Adam Smith styled level playing field. They are not. The corporations don't want to be subjected to government regulation. Don't you remember that Clinton got rid of that banking rule regulations in the 1990's to help his banker cronies along? They bought out the political parties of the USA to cripple any attempts at government control over capitalism as it is done TODAY. Not years ago BJ. How does one cope with that? They are scared of Socialists in power. In government. Not some liberals and conservatives that they have had in their pockets and submissive to their interests! The only ones who they are not happy with the idea of being ruled by are the socialists. Even the moderate ones like Bernie is. They hate the idea of it. But socialism is the only group willing to kick their asses. And their asses need kicking BJ. FDR had to kick a little bit of capitalist ass to get the country from falling into a deeper depression and worse conditions back in the Great Depression. You allow workers to hit huge unemployment numbers? Lose their homes? Not have jobs? No investments in roads, bridges, products, farms, schools, hospitals, etc? The working masses and the middle classes are going to be coming for the capitalists' heads BJ. No doubt about it.
The problem is the globalist establishment. The solution is removing them from the corridors of power.

To replace them with what? Nationalists who don't want immigrants, don't want non white people in their home territories, puristic race theories? Everyone IQ labeled and boxed and painted and put in place in some ideal society that agrees that America is first? You have no idea at all how messy human interactions on every damn level in the world are do you? Economically, socially, racially, educationally, and the interdependence is ENORMOUS already. That is why when something happens in some stock market in Asia you feel it in NYC and other places. It is all tied together. That is where capitalism ties its growth BJ.
Whoa. Wait a second. One minute you are telling me I should embrace all people and learn about there differences and not be afraid of them, and learn to love their differences and be comfortable with them; then, in the next breath they have absolutely nothing to do with you. If you haven't noticed, there are a lot of those types of people. Have you learned to love them and their differences, or do they have nothing to do with you?

You have no idea what I am talking about do you BJ? Ok, one more try BJ. All human societies are complex. You got drug dealers, angels, devils, workers, and middle class people, bourgeoisie, academics in their ivory towers, etc etc all in one nation. The USA, the PRC, the EU, fill in the blank nation. How does one cope with them if you are into solving political and social and economic problems BJ? As a president of a nation, head of a gov't department? By not seeing them as equals and human and being equal in needs? Or by denying their humanity because they are 'the enemy'? Lol. Trump is willing to make a deal with the North Korean dude with the bowl haircut...little Rocket Man he called him. Lol. He does it because he has to cope. Then he belittles someone else. Lol. My attitude towards all people is be expansive from the gitgo....you get more out of people using honey rather than vinegar with human beings BJ. Drug dealers are people too. Figure out what motivates, shapes and creates drug markets and why these people get into that and how to prevent it over time in an intelligent way....I don't have to agree with their ways of life to try to figure out as an advocate for socialism which is the best way to keep the rest of the society safe from people willing to kill for greed. Bankers, and others do that all the time. The ultimate lovers of capitalism. Drug dealers. Willing to kill for a profit. If they thought about society needing to be kept safe and prosperous and how to eradicate poverty, ignorance and lack of an education, and lack of decent water, electricity and food for the entire society? And to place that FIRST and CENTER in the entire premise of the society? The entire superstructure of the society the human being is first? They would not be killing, not be drug dealing and not be causing harm to others on a mass scale. But they got that MONEY and GREED bug deeply embedded in their retrograde brains. So? They are not much different than the ones who think capitalism is the best thing since sliced bread now do they? Lol. Did you say you loved capitalism? Hmmmmm. Start defending the drug dealers going out there making money no matter what they need to do? Lol. See how you think BJ? Again, what are my values? What are yours? Think about it.
I never said there were zero black or Hispanic coders. They are just fairly rare. I also told you that diversity and inclusion programs are front and center where I work. We are financially incentivized to bring people in from minority or underrepresented backgrounds.

They are fairly rare? I would say they are fairly overloaded like Bregman stated about slow computers...and running ten programs at once. It is not a bad computer....it is one that has too many obstacles. Figure out how to get rid of the obstacles BJ. So they are not rare anymore. But if you are a person who thinks Blacks, Latinos are a lost cause because their IQ's are low? How are you not racist? Do you see what I mean? No? The ball is in your court Relampaguito. Either do something for others who are not being represented or continue with your unconvincing armchair theories on coding....that entails not getting involved.

Sure. So is my next door neighbors brother-in-law.

Did you ask him how he did it? Lol. Did you ask your Latin housecleaner lady who you paid a $500 bonus for Xmas a few years ago why she did not become a coder or got a college degree? Lol. Ask them why not? Or are you in the reptilian brain still Relampaguito?

I didn't say Hispanics don't have what it takes. I work with them all the time. They are mostly Spanish ancestry if from Central and South America. I work with many people from Spain as well. I simply pointed out the Bell Curve's points about IQ distribution. One of the points is that there is a central tendency for lower IQs in black and Hispanic populations, and with higher standard deviation. That doesn't mean all blacks and all Hispanics are stupid--not by a longshot. In fact, the higher standard deviation means you may find a greater number of genius (and complete moron) IQs per capita. The Bell Curve was dealing with the idea that jobs and income in a knowledge-based economy favor high IQ people. So people with lower IQs suffer. Some of that is due to socio-economic factors, and can be attenuated by policy. Some of it is not, and is probably hereditary. There is a strong case for hereditary intelligence.

The strong case is what Bregman discusses. The researcher was a Princeton doctorate person who went out there and got serious with the whys of fluctuations in IQ. See how you imply that Spanish blood and a higher percentage of it? Is preferable for higher intelligence quotients than Indian or African (New World) blood is? Why is that? Lol. Who suffers bad diets, poverty and fear psychology more in the New World? White people from pure Spanish stock? Or Indians and Africans who never got many advantages in a society in which the privileged were about retaining the power and not sharing it with anyone. What about diets? What about what Bregman talks about? Beginning of the harvest low IQ...end of the harvest a jump in IQ? What does that say? IQ is permanent and not changing. As a big group let us generically label these people?

I am sick and tired of these assholes with these labels BJ. My mother who was obviously a brilliant woman was placed in the 1940's in NYC (the mecca of liberalism and so on...Lol. Whatever) in a track in school that was for mentally challenged kids. Kids with down syndrome, etc. Why? Because she was Puerto Rican, spoke Spanish and her first year in the USA public schools of New York did not speak English as a first language. So to the Special Ed class she went. For YEARS. Why? No one was measuring her abilities. How could you? the IQ tests were in English. She did not speak it. Who gives a shit about those kids anyway? My father being Puerto Rican went to school in an all Black school. In NYC in 1945. They did not have great professors, great books, great motivation for anything. They were relegated to being high school dropouts. The system works. Fairly now doesn't it? You got so many people who are damaged for GENERATIONS by that SHITTY RACIST shit system. Wasting people's potentials with that closed minded crap. Stop the idea of it BJ. Keep that damage out of the USA school system. Wasting away bright minds like toilet paper because someone thought IQ is all about a test that doesn't take into consideration a whole lot of things. Even if it is much improved? The researchers in Bregman's study is saying.....got to tackle the issues of fallout related to poverty scarcity mentality. Attack that right away. ATTACK IT. Then you can come back to me and say, "Yes Tainari. Everyone is stabilized now. Everyone has a level playing field. This group is not performing. It must be genes. How do we change that as well to make it better? Was it because they are kids who got lead in the water in Flint and it affected their brain function? Why did we let that happen?" I want some results not based on the need for men who have hidden racism to make excuses for shit policies that don't work and they make excuses for not investing in education BJ. There are enormous problems in Education. Enough to keep you busy the rest of your adult life. No armchair shit theories for me.

Not since high school.

Alright. Since high school. What does that mean? Clarify please.
I assume cultural norms evolved due to resource constraints and the relative strengths of men and women. Even in advanced societies, women cost more in the healthcare system than men do. To try to hide that difference, ObamaCare provides men with gynecological coverage among other things. Biologically, men and women are different.

Yes they are. So? They cost more. They also are responsible for something vital for society. Giving birth to new members of society that will replace old workers who retire and expire. They shape their babies and give comfort and love to their children hopefully. You either have a government that respects that difference and decides women are valuable for the future of a country or they are not. If Obamacare is giving gynocological coverage to men they better be transgender men who did the surgery and not regular dudes with all their parts still functioning. Because that is government waste. Lol. So? We are different Relampaguito. I like the differences. Do you? I have had liberals in San Francisco who are lesbians or gays who asked me, "Don't you get bored with being a heterosexual? Don't you want to switch? Aren't you curious?"I tell them, Ïf I wanted to look at another vagina all day and get excited with that? I just get out a mirror and look at myself...I find the opposite sex a lot more interesting than my own. I am not curious about what I am about. I got myself as a woman to know and care for internally....sexually the males are a lot more interesting for me. I am heterosexual."My point? Differences between the sexes is not meant to be something about fighting and lack of understanding. It is meant to be complementary and to love the differences between both. It is like the feathered serpent archetype I wrote about up there. With both together you get BALANCE. The balance all of us seek. Male energy with female energy. Not for one to win a war over the other...but both together to be able to seek a great completion and balance in life. Asi es.....
No.


Once again, you have made the inference of an ordinal rank when I have made no such assertion. What's better? Pork tenderloin or beef tenderloin? Are they equal? No. Is one horrible and the other one great? No. Probably beef tenderloin will cost you more, but pork tenderloin is pretty damn good.

You are the one obsessed with who is better and who is more talented and who is this and who is that. Deal with human needs and human abilities and make life well balanced for everyone. Reach for a great society. Well balanced, needs met, and abilities mined to their maximum potentials. Don't waste human abilities and don't leave deeply embedded human needs unmet. That is the kind of socialist I am.
I see how the knee-jerk inference of ordinal ranking reinforces the Marxist class struggle to the point that even biological difference is denied even though it is patently obvious.

Your spins on Marxism are definitely distorted. But what else is to be expected from a man who thinks capitalism is a great system and won't change for all time into something different. I am looking at a pattern. All systems wear out their usefulness BJ. Just like coding. Got to do upgrades all the time to the point of making sure they retain their usefulness. If you don't and want to stay in the same coding systems when the technology evolves out of the old codes? You are left behind. And people who hold on to old concepts because they hate change and progress because it is a threat to some power hungry small elite? Have got to go....

That's an odd assertion. I'm probably one of the few people you know who has read the Insular Cases. I think it's fair to say the fate of the people of Puerto Rico doesn't induce an overwhelming sense of pathos in me. However, the status of Puerto Rico is front and center, and something I find rather fascinating. It's surprising to me that many others don't. However, you have to keep in mind that the US had no welfare state, no fractional reserve banking, no income tax until it started building an empire. It is in fact why @late and his ilk waste their time on appeals to democracy or the Republic with me when they understand so little of what the US was founded on--believing modern propaganda threads and ignoring the written constitution and its evolution. Outside of an income tax, the US government can raise tariffs, imposts, and excises uniformly and capitations apportioned. That means in capitation terms, you'd pay the same capitation tax as Mike Bloomberg if paid directly. It creates a government where every voter has exactly the same capital interest in policy, and the government is intrinsically limited.

I read the insular cases. The arguments are strange. One of them states that Puerto Rico can't be incorporated and protected by the constitution because the Puerto Ricans are not of Anglo origin and don't understand democracy well. Lol. It is foreign to them. Got to have some folks that understand it well do that part for them. Lol. Hmmmm? Does that sound patronizing and racist to you? Lol. Ay BJ, that 1920 type of language has changed now....but the courts still use it as legal precedent and uphold the bizarre reality of the insular cases....because it is about power over that land. And the people who inhabit it. It is about imperial ambitions. Not justice. Not legal fairness. Not constitutionality of statutory citizenship. It is a contradiction yet the society of the USA doesn't really do much work dealing with internal contradictions. It will wait for a crisis it can't get out of easily to try to face it. I find that not much different than other ex empires who sink in history and lose their grip on power....swimming in a sea of denials til the bitter end. Keep denying what is obvious BJ. It won't save your republic. Those kind of contradictions had sunk many a powerful empire in human history in the past.
Of course, and I could give you a walking tour of Rome as I know the city pretty well.

The Romans were the original Latinos. The origin of the Spanish or Castilian language is based on vulgar Latin. So? I always said that Mexico is about the number zero, the Mayan and Mesoamerican cosmovision and the Roman columns.....lol. Two old empires fusing themselves into a Mexican mold. Anglos think they know what the base of Latin mentality is about. They don't. They should study Germany and ancient Germanic tribes. Their culture is based on that. Rome is about us Latinos. Lol. One of the greatest Empires known to mankind and womankind. Lol. Got to be politically correct...lol. I hate political correctness. Hee hee. Rome had their Pax Romana. They became worshipers of the Virgin Mary and the Roman Catholic Church. The first Christian church. A Jew being crucified on their cross that they had as a terroristic threat to those who would dare to challenge the Caesars and Roman law. Lol. They wind up being óvertaken in religious conversions by a minority group. They switched. Two way streets BJ. Two way streets.
Well, that is a very interesting point. The Romans smashed the Jewish homeland and scattered their people everywhere. Yet, almost 2000 years later, once again we have Israel and a bunch of people who have maintained an ethno-religious identity spanning well over a thousand years. That's why atheists just crack me up.

Yes, they refused to assimilate. I wonder why? They even revived a dead language of theirs. Hebrew. I wonder how stubborn one must be to recreate a dead language and bring it back into common usage just to preserve a past you find important? Human beings need roots and identities and historical contexts BJ. Assimilation is for the birds if you respect the whole identity of a group of people who many societies never really accept in their midst. That is a point you and I should go over one of these days.
Oh, so you've heard me provide passionate defenses of the Soviet Union, Communist China, and Nazi Germany? Refresh my memory, because I don't seem to recall that.

I don't expect you to defend any of those. You are an American nationalist for sure. But you got a lot of some Nazi tendencies if you believe in Master Race theories. I wonder if you do? I do have my doubts about you on that one about dicing, splicing and so on bits of DNA. You never said it was to improve the lower classes BJ. I wonder who all that snipping is for? I have my doubts. I hate that damn Master Race shit with a passion that has to do with people thinking they can exclude others for some notions of and delusions of egocentric grandeur. Let it be is my philosophy. The imperfections of who we are as a species is part of our survival. Trying to perfect something that is in constant motion is for control freaks. And who are these control freaks I have been describing in other answers to you BJ? People who know how to let others be? Or not?

Umm hmm... and that lack of depth is why I was the only one arguing against gay marriage by bringing up the origins of marriage in Octavian Caeasar's reign and Caesar's intent... while so many people here were rambling on about "equality" and "love" and so forth.

Legal arguments against gay marriage and gay marriage have already hit the SCOTUS. It is looking like marriage is a contract between two consenting adults who want to have rights about property, life insurance, custody of children, etc and etc. It is a legal scene. To assume heterosexual couples are the only ones who can bring new life into the world? Many couples are infertile, are too old and marry beyond reproductive age, adopt, single parents, etc. It is all a legal thing. If the gay community wants to fight about who gets the china, who gets the sofa, who gets the savings account, and the house and the old clunker car and fights about you don't love me anymore? Like heterosexual couples in bad divorce court TV shows do whom am I to stop them.

Of course. There are a lot of miserable rich people, and rich drug addicts, etc.

Again poverty is a problem. Being rich can be if use it to get favored status in a society that respects money more than poverty. The USA is one of those societies. So you got to realize which problem is more acute. I know you understand me Senor Relampaguito...no te hagas.
Lottery winners from poor backgrounds tend to blow their winnings and end up right back in poverty. It also happens to poor people who make it big in sports or popular music. Don't get me wrong, I don't think being ultra rich is something to aspire too. If I were to end up like Michael Bloomberg, I'd think I fucked up somewhere along the way.

You love that Bloomberg. Admit it and let him stop and frisk you when you get on BART or MUNI and you have to wade through the human feces you complain about.....? Stop and Frisk you for not being happy in living in the land of the LIBERAL. Walnut Creek or Tiburon County. Big smile BJ....give me a big smile!

Well, you won't get a big argument from me there. Amazon.com is amazingly innovative, but they are also squeezing their low IQ/low skill/low wage workers. It's a different thing though if you are programming robots for them.

I know. You don't care about those low on the totem pole workers. I would say you should talk to them before discarding them as low IQ. Many are not. They just need a job to pay bills. Like many people do BJ. I don't like coding or computer work. It would bore me. Probably because I don't have the skills or the experience of it that you do. For me? I love this type of work. Historical, ancient and full of interesting dilemmas...creative and imaginative things. Just not mechanical.
Come on now. You know that was directly referring to propagating hedonism, recreational sex, drug use, "life is just a buzz", etc.

I don't care about that. I have never been drunk once in my entire life. Never smoked cigarettes, or had marijuana or anything. Recreational sex? No. Hedonism? I don't know Puerto Ricans, Cubans, Dominicans and other Latin Americans and Caribbean island cultures love their pleasures. Sunbathing, dancing, hugging, kissing, warmth and informality and LOVE and hanging with friends and doing art and musicality, theater and tremendous acceptance...in our societies of each other and our families...our communities. If that is hedonism BJ? I guess I have been one my whole life. I like my culture. It is wonderful. I don't regret it for an instant. Had way too much fun....being part of it my whole life.
It's a lot easier to exploit people who don't assimilate, which is why the establishment doesn't encourage it.

The establishment isn't into getting people to learn English and be a certain way to buy something. The banks don't do that. They want your money. Not your language or for you to assimilate. They want you to be part of the consumer society. Beyond that? They aint interested. No, the exploitable are the ones who never got a great education and don't understand the forces at work. A whole lot of true blue American pendejos are out there speaking American English only, and working for the man, and getting paid crap wages and standing in line to get dental care and government checks because the Americaness of their existences is not enough to avoid being poor in America.
As it is, you've worn me out Azuquita. I'll have to come back to this later. :tired:


I wore you out eh?

I will hit your next post later. I got to go and pick up my child at school. Relampaguito! Do you do this as recreation at work? Ave maria. :D
By late
#15067913
blackjack21 wrote:


I would look at Italian-Americans as an example of assimilation and many, but not all African-Americans as acculturation.



Remove the barriers to assimilation, and Blacks will assimilate.

It's that simple, and that complicated.
User avatar
By Tainari88
#15067928
late wrote:Remove the barriers to assimilation, and Blacks will assimilate.

It's that simple, and that complicated.


Oh uh, late looks like both you and Relampaguito aka @blackjack21 got some studying to do about what are cultures like when they are living next to each other and have daily interactions.

Watch this video. It is short @late and the last bit at the end is very critical. For acculturation is the peaceful co-existence of two different cultures sharing the same city, land, or nation and living near each other. It is a fairly friendly and open exchange of cultures, languages and etc. Check these two videos:


https://study.com/academy/lesson/accult ... mples.html





Assimilation is different.

Let me give you and BJ an example.

You got a man who arrives in NYC's Ellis island around 1905 on a steamship from Germany. His name is Johannes Baum. He was born in Germany, speaks German as his primary and only mother tongue. He is a 27 year old male that is single and comes to the USA to be a part of society and make a living. A typical immigrant wanting a new life. He retains his Johannes Baum name. He learns English over time working as a shopkeeper selling German products in Manhattan let's say. He acquires English and speaks it with an accent, goes to a German speaking Episcopalian church, etc. He writes and reads in German and after a while in English but he prefers German. That is acculturation Late. He is exposed to American life and culture but he retains his old German identity and with time and effort knows how to navigate 'American' life.

Assimilation is this......his name is Johannes Baum, he came as an indentured servant and has to pay off a debt for seven years to pay for his transport. He works for a brick construction company and works for an American guy who treats him terrible, threatens him with deportation every time he has a complaint, is told to forget his German identity, his German language and if he hears it spoken around him? He will be whipped, his wages docked and they are severely small due to owing his passage to the man....his culture is seen as a threat to power and control over his life and is told to forget being German and to change his name to John Tree. He has to respond to Tree. The Master doesn't like Tree as his name because it is too close to his original Baum German name so he changes it to Nigel Perry. Something British. To reflect a British identity. Baum thinks...hm, I am not British? The Master says....my name is Perry and my first name is Donald. Donald Perry. German crap culture is worthless. A bunch of Kraut savages. If you speak that savage crap around here? Got to make sure you never do it again.....it gets to the point that in many many years and many confrontations about identity Johannes Baum winds up to survive his conditions stops thinking in German, stops speaking German, but since he never gets a good base in his new culture either due to the disdain the Master has for his origins? He winds up in some kind of patois or underdeveloped state....his German identity is gone....and replaced by the new name Donald Perry. Something that doesn't reflect his past, his history, his roots or his many years cultivating his identity because? It is a liability. To live, to being a new land, in a new culture, having to learn to speak all the time without any change, the new language only.

It is a way of losing a sense of self. Something very traumatic and damaging on a deep level. That is ASSIMILATION. It is about loss. Loss of identity. Loss of power. Loss of position and about trauma, fear and coercion.

Who controls who you are? You or the other dictatng the rules for the new life?

I think assimilation is nothing good. Acculturation is something necessary and something engaging. Assimilation is about loss and fear.

The African Americans are assimilated people. They were assimilated a long time ago. Prohibited from speaking the languages of their past. Either give it up or face death or pain.

No choice. Assimilate or die. They were the original Americans in the purest sense. There was nothing else left to do but to accept that new identity. And speak that language. Either that? Or the grave.

They never were acculturated.

Check out this scene from the movie Amistad? The Africans and how they perceived the religion of the new land they were strangers in? Were the Africans assimilated yet? Or not?





When did those captured people stop speaking Mende? Or Bantu? or Lucumi? Or any of the West African languages? Did they do it because they chose to come and be Americans and wanted to be like Johannes Baum on a ship? Or was it beat out of them?

Assimilation I HATE IT!!

You can kiss my ass with the assimilation. Middle finger for the assimilationists!
User avatar
By Tainari88
#15067955
late wrote:Uh huh...

It all comes back to economics.


Why even go through all this chaining and whipping and chasing and drama if it is not about MONEY my dear @late?

You have to realize that British people for the Romans? They were these blue painted barbarians with no redeeming qualities...lol. Do I say this? No. This British historian says so:





All these myths about what an Imperial past is about my dear @late .
User avatar
By Tainari88
#15067959
Zionist Nationalist wrote:What are those barriers?



You need another scene from Amistad (1997) to clarify what the barriers are?

Here---a limited English speaker tells it all:



Give us Free!

That is the barrier Zionist. They need some 'free'.
By Hindsite
#15067981
Tainari88 wrote:Technology is technology. If we have living cells and that is all we have in our bodies we are definitely a product of nature. You know when I gave birth to my son I was amazed, surprised and completely intrigued on how a woman's body is innately knowledge filled about what to do to give birth to that child. Sure one has to work hard on labor and giving birth, but the body is almost on auto pilot. It knows what is needed.

Nature is incredibly wise and the way human beings are made, shaped and formed? Is fascinating. A delicate dance between the father and the mother and their information and it produces this new life with a new set of instructions and it goes through the reptilian past, the amphibian, the primate, the entire spectrum of history of the species in those nine months....and voila! Here comes something new....

Nature is just about the most awe inspiring system the world can study. Yet, we think we are as great as that? We need a bit of humility @annatar1914 .

My son instinctually seeks my warmth and my ability to give him security...children sense that tremendous bond with the mother. I am so interested in how deep it goes with children. They know who their mothers are...and nothing changes that. But as a mother you have a chance to influence that child for the good or the bad. It is up to each mother to make choices that are the best for the well being of their offspring.

A very heavy and important responsibility. One that should be fun true, but also it is a serious thing to influence a small child. It is both at once. Like the duality I mentioned.

I hope you realize that nature is a creation of God. (Genesis 1)
User avatar
By annatar1914
#15067983
Hindsite wrote:I hope you realize that nature is a creation of God. (Genesis 1)


That's why you shouldn't ruin it. We are stewards, not owners, of His Creation; ''the Earth is the Lord's, and the fullness thereof''.
By Hindsite
#15067994
annatar1914 wrote:That's why you shouldn't ruin it. We are stewards, not owners, of His Creation; ''the Earth is the Lord's, and the fullness thereof''.

Of course, the command to have dominion over and subdue does not mean to ruin it. We should not want to ruin it anyway, because it is also beneficial for our use.
Praise the Lord.
User avatar
By Potemkin
#15067996
annatar1914 wrote:That's why you shouldn't ruin it. We are stewards, not owners, of His Creation; ''the Earth is the Lord's, and the fullness thereof''.

This why the private property rights on which capitalism is founded are essentially atheist. The steward has seized the property of his Master, which he had given freely for all his servants to enjoy.
#15067997
Potemkin wrote:This why the private property rights on which capitalism is founded are essentially atheist. The steward has seized the property of his Master, which he had given freely for all his servants to enjoy.


Indeed. It is a usurpation. As even in the 1600's a thoughful well to do man like Blaise Pascal could write in his ''Pensees'';


295. Mine, thine.—"This dog is mine," said those poor children; "that is my place in the sun."Here is the beginning and the image of the usurpation of all the earth.

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