EU-BREXIT - Page 322 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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User avatar
By ingliz
#15068543
Ter wrote:The EU could purchase fish from the UK instead of robbing the fish from waters that do not belong to them.

Why would the EU populace buy 'English' fish with a 24% tariff (WTO) when they can purchase cheaper fish from their partners around the world? The EU has trade agreements with several countries or blocs.


:)
User avatar
By Ter
#15068545
ingliz wrote:Why would the EU populace buy 'English' fish with a 24% tariff (WTO) when they can purchase cheaper fish from their partners around the world? The EU has trade agreements with several countries or blocs.


:)


If the EU would impose those tariffs, they would be fools.
Besides, the UK is much closer to Europe so the fish will be fresher.
See ?

Boris, if you read this, don't give in to those EU thugs!
User avatar
By ingliz
#15068551
Ter wrote:If the EU would impose those tariffs, they would be fools.

As Boris wants an Australian-style deal (a silly, warm and cuddly euphemism for 'No-deal'), they would have no choice but to impose tariffs.


:)
User avatar
By Potemkin
#15068581
Ter wrote:If the EU would impose those tariffs, they would be fools.
Besides, the UK is much closer to Europe so the fish will be fresher.
See ?

Boris, if you read this, don't give in to those EU thugs!

@Ter, we are going to take a huge economic hit because of Brexit. Personally, I think it's worth it. But it's going to happen, and you'd better prepare yourself for it....
User avatar
By Tainari88
#15068582
Potemkin wrote:@Ter, we are going to take a huge economic hit because of Brexit. Personally, I think it's worth it. But it's going to happen, and you'd better prepare yourself for it....


Why do you think it is worth taking the huge economic hit Bellisimo?
User avatar
By Potemkin
#15068586
Tainari88 wrote:Why do you think it is worth taking the huge economic hit Bellisimo?

Mainly because being a member of the EU would lock Britain into a capitalist free trade economic and political system. Capitalism and free trade are, in fact, written into the consitution of the EU. They are rules which every member must obey. I would like, ultimately, to see Britain become a socialist rather than a capitalist society. This will only be possible, even in principle, if the UK leaves the EU. This means that I support Brexit, and in fact I regard almost any price short of a shooting war to be worth paying to achieve that exit. @Ter on the other hand, along with most Brexiters, seems to think there won't be any price to pay. I can assure you that he is deluding himself.
User avatar
By Beren
#15068591
Potemkin wrote:Mainly because being a member of the EU would lock Britain into a capitalist free trade economic and political system. Capitalism and free trade are, in fact, written into the consitution of the EU. They are rules which every member must obey. I would like, ultimately, to see Britain become a socialist rather than a capitalist society. This will only be possible, even in principle, if the UK leaves the EU. This means that I support Brexit, and in fact I regard almost any price short of a shooting war to be worth paying to achieve that exit. @Ter on the other hand, along with most Brexiters, seems to think there won't be any price to pay. I can assure you that he is deluding himself.

What if it's written into the constitution? What if a constitution says private property should be respected? Any constitution could be overthrown, it's not like Moses's laws or something. You should also realise then that Scotland better leave Britain too, however, at the end Scottish Communists would end up gathering in Shetland and seceding from Scotland as well. :lol:
User avatar
By Tainari88
#15068594
Beren wrote:What if it's written into the constitution? What if a constitution says private property should be respected? Any constitution could be overthrown, it's not like Moses's laws or something. You should also realise then that Scotland better leave Britain too, however, at the end Scottish Communists would end up gathering in Shetland and seceding from Scotland as well. :lol:


Hmmm. I say Beren he wind up in another country where they print communists on their currency. Lol. Even though they are ruled by capitalist trade....any country printing communist heroes on their currency should be where @Potemkin ultimately should wind up.

Hee hee. I kind of like this!
User avatar
By Potemkin
#15068605
Beren wrote:What if it's written into the constitution? What if a constitution says private property should be respected? Any constitution could be overthrown, it's not like Moses's laws or something. You should also realise then that Scotland better leave Britain too, however, at the end Scottish Communists would end up gathering in Shetland and seceding from Scotland as well. :lol:

It is easier to change the constitution of the UK than the constitution of the EU, which would require the consent of every single one of the other members. Besides, the constitution of the UK presumes a feudal system rather than a capitalist one. Lol. ;)
User avatar
By Beren
#15068609
Potemkin wrote:It is easier to change the constitution of the UK than the constitution of the EU, which would require the consent of every single one of the other members. Besides, the constitution of the UK presumes a feudal system rather than a capitalist one. Lol. ;)

Regardless of any written bullshit, Britain is a lot more capitalist and a lot harder to change than any country on the continent, as well as it's going to be more difficult to transform it outside the EU than it would be inside of it. Outside the EU libertarian and imperialist reflexes will come out.
User avatar
By Tainari88
#15068613
Beren wrote:Regardless of any written bullshit, Britain is a lot more capitalist and a lot harder to change than any country on the continent, as well as it's going to be more difficult to transform it outside the EU than it would be inside of it. Outside the EU libertarian and imperialist reflexes will come out.


If the libertarian and imperialist reflexes come out? Then let the UK pay the price for that shitty thought process. ;) Don't stay in the Shetland islands you Scottish communist!

Don't throw away your charms on Shetland shitland ways. Lol. See I made a bad rhyme happen?@Potemkin :lol:
By fokker
#15068614
Potemkin wrote:Mainly because being a member of the EU would lock Britain into a capitalist free trade economic and political system. Capitalism and free trade are, in fact, written into the consitution of the EU. They are rules which every member must obey.


I believe capitalism can be disposed of only in a revolution. During revolution nobody cares about a constitution. You need to study the example of Lenin how they pulled it off and also how communism collapsed in Eastern Europe. It is absolutely necessary to disrupt political system, state organization, mainly its law enforcement forces and military.

The main complication with an EU wide revolution are language and cultural barriers. Revolution cannot happen in all members simultaneously. As long as bigger states are unaffected they can put pressure on those in revolt. This ultimately means a socialist revolution must occur in the die hard capitalist countries like USA and Britain first to be successful. Since they are quite well organized, it's a very difficult task, with nearly zero chance of success.

I'm pleased that we have one brave former EU member that is exploring EU exit for us, although I'm quite skeptical about the outcome. Should trade negotiations go wrong, there is still the option of Theresa May pulling off a political coup, removing Johnson and asking for an extension of transitional period (very unlikely though). In the long term we hope that Britain will return back to us :) .

Brits need to understand we EU citizens from small countries are just passengers in the EU train led by elites. On one side we wish UK could get a fair trade deal, but on the other side we see the reality of EU where a fair deal is an illusion. We are merely trying to explain the reality to you, not to rob you of your fish :) .
User avatar
By Potemkin
#15068617
fokker wrote:I believe capitalism can be disposed of only in a revolution. During revolution nobody cares about a constitution. You need to study the example of Lenin how they pulled it off and also how communism collapsed in Eastern Europe. It is absolutely necessary to disrupt political system, state organization, mainly its law enforcement forces and military.

The main complication with an EU wide revolution are language and cultural barriers. Revolution cannot happen in all members simultaneously. As long as bigger states are unaffected they can put pressure on those in revolt. This ultimately means a socialist revolution must occur in the die hard capitalist countries like USA and Britain first to be successful.

Agreed. But this cannot happen so long as the UK is a member of a larger political bloc which is committed to having a capitalist system. In fact, you've done a good job of describing precisely why the UK must leave the EU as a necessary (but not sufficient) prerequisite to any sort of revolutionary transformation.

Since they are quite well organized, it's a very difficult task, with nearly zero chance of success.

Tell me about it. Lol. Neither the UK nor the USA is exactly a weak link in the chain of world capitalism. But then, neither is the EU. Hmm? ;)
User avatar
By Beren
#15068632
All that only exists in your head, @Potemkin, maybe you should also try to live in the real world. Brexit bulldozed Corbyn because it's a completely reactionary thing in reality, and there's no such Brexit that could be otherwise.
By Rich
#15068639
Potemkin wrote:Agreed. But this cannot happen so long as the UK is a member of a larger political bloc which is committed to having a capitalist system. In fact, you've done a good job of describing precisely why the UK must leave the EU as a necessary (but not sufficient) prerequisite to any sort of revolutionary transformation.

We're not going to have a revolution though, not a socialist one, we may well have an Islamic one down the road. But while there's no chance of a socialist revolution, an evolution by the EU to bring in minimum tax rates for rich people and corporations had begun. Brexit has seriously damaged this. Despite its right wing image, the USA's taxes on rich people and corporations were relatively high. Those taxes would have been much lower, much earlier if the USA was instead 50 sovereign states all competing to offer lower taxes to rich people and corporations.

However much to my surprise Boris's government seems to be delivering something of substance on immigration control. Now we could have done that inside the EU and a lot earlier. Cameron could have said to the EU back in 2013, you've got 3 months to create a brake system on free movement for us, or well introduce one unilaterally.

Communists problem is that they real, true communists are only ever a small minority. In the same way that only ever a small minority of the population will ever be true dedicated monastics. Once monasteries become rich and powerful they attract people who are not real monastics. When Communists take power there are just not enough real true Communists to run the country.

However most of the time Communists are a million miles from power so they spend most of their inserting themselves into populist courses, in order to pretend that they are less of a minority than they really are. So in Britain we had Connelly as a leader for Irish independence. There was nothing progressive about Irish independence. Ireland led the race to the bottom on Rich peoples /corporate taxes, and those fake progressives the Scottish Nationalist Party planned to do the same if they got independence.
User avatar
By Tainari88
#15068641
Rich wrote:We're not going to have a revolution though, not a socialist one, we may well have an Islamic one down the road. But while there's no chance of a socialist revolution, an evolution by the EU to bring in minimum tax rates for rich people and corporations had begun. Brexit has seriously damaged this. Despite its right wing image, the USA's taxes on rich people and corporations were relatively high. Those taxes would have been much lower, much earlier if the USA was instead 50 sovereign states all competing to offer lower taxes to rich people and corporations.

However much to my surprise Boris's government seems to be delivering something of substance on immigration control. Now we could have done that inside the EU and a lot earlier. Cameron could have said to the EU back in 2013, you've got 3 months to create a brake system on free movement for us, or well introduce one unilaterally.

Communists problem is that they real, true communists are only ever a small minority. In the same way that only ever a small minority of the population will ever be true dedicated monastics. Once monasteries become rich and powerful they attract people who are not real monastics. When Communists take power there are just not enough real true Communists to run the country.

However most of the time Communists are a million miles from power so they spend most of their inserting themselves into populist courses, in order to pretend that they are less of a minority than they really are. So in Britain we had Connelly as a leader for Irish independence. There was nothing progressive about Irish independence. Ireland led the race to the bottom on Rich peoples /corporate taxes, and those fake progressives the Scottish Nationalist Party planned to do the same if they got independence.


I strangely find this interesting and full of great points. I only hate that such an intelligent man is such a class conscious snob. What a waste of a fine mind! ;)
User avatar
By noemon
#15068679
Ter wrote:1. @noemon Can you tell us what your personal opinion is about the eventual return of the Elgin marbles to Greece?
I am asking because you are both Greek and British.

2. For the EU to insist on continuing to harvest fish in UK waters is preposterous. What is the rationale for this ? I hope the UK stands firm and refuses to budge.


The Parthenon Marbles belong to the Parthenon. This is widely accepted inside the UK itself. That is also my view. I understand both states historically pursuing their respective positions for their separate reasons.
By annatar1914
#15068682
@Potemkin , very good points! You said;


Agreed. But this cannot happen so long as the UK is a member of a larger political bloc which is committed to having a capitalist system. In fact, you've done a good job of describing precisely why the UK must leave the EU as a necessary (but not sufficient) prerequisite to any sort of revolutionary transformation.


Absolutely, because the UK will likely experience a phase of extreme neo-liberal Capitalism as seen in the USA, which the UK will be a Colony of in this later phase.

Tell me about it. Lol. Neither the UK nor the USA is exactly a weak link in the chain of world capitalism. But then, neither is the EU. Hmm? ;)


That's why I think the answer will be USSR 2.0.
User avatar
By Tainari88
#15068688
Potemkin wrote:It is easier to change the constitution of the UK than the constitution of the EU, which would require the consent of every single one of the other members. Besides, the constitution of the UK presumes a feudal system rather than a capitalist one. Lol. ;)


Feudalism. How retrograde is that? Do you still love those middle class British people who love to be discriminatory class conscious snobs?

I don't like them. But they are there...your people. You love them? :roll:
User avatar
By Potemkin
#15068712
Tainari88 wrote:Feudalism. How retrograde is that? Do you still love those middle class British people who love to be discriminatory class conscious snobs?

I don't like them. But they are there...your people. You love them? :roll:

Lol. No I don't @Tainari88. I actually despise them, and have always done so. As you well know. :)
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