Too Many White People - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Provision of the two UN HDI indicators other than GNP.
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#15068882
annatar1914 wrote:Too much Trotsky; not enough icepick :knife:

:D

I wonder if he was recalling what he wrote there when he was conferring with German and other Fascist representatives to plot against the USSR? One would almost think his death in 1940 was the last straw with the Elites and Russia had to be invaded the following year, yes?

;)

The general consensus is that the charges against Trotsky at the Moscow Show Trials were trumped-up and based on 'confessions' extracted by torture and fabricated evidence. For example, it was claimed that Trotsky had met with fascist agents at a hotel which turned out to have been demolished several years before the alleged date of Trotsky's alleged meeting. And so on. And if anything, Stalin probably assassinated Trotsky in 1940 in order to send a message to Hitler that he was 'cleaning house' when it came to any excessive Jewish influence on Bolshevism. Stalin was desperate to maintain his 'armed truce' with Nazi Germany, for obvious reasons.
#15068883
Potemkin wrote:The general consensus is that the charges against Trotsky at the Moscow Show Trials were trumped-up and based on 'confessions' extracted by torture and fabricated evidence. For example, it was claimed that Trotsky had met with fascist agents at a hotel which turned out to have been demolished several years before the alleged date of Trotsky's alleged meeting. And so on. And if anything, Stalin probably assassinated Trotsky in 1940 in order to send a message to Hitler that he was 'cleaning house' when it came to any excessive Jewish influence on Bolshevism. Stalin was desperate to maintain his 'armed truce' with Nazi Germany, for obvious reasons.



Well, that's understandable at least, thanks for the information. Everything moves straight ahead even with crooked people, in this imperfect and sinful world.
#15068885
Both are also big on cults of personality too. I guess fascists are a bit less contradictory with that as they do not pretend they are egalitarians so much. Communists are full retard with the cults of personality. Everyone is equally worthless (except "dear leader" who is basically deified.).
User avatar
By Potemkin
#15068887
annatar1914 wrote:Well, that's understandable at least, thanks for the information. Everything moves straight ahead even with crooked people, in this imperfect and sinful world.

Indeed. To go forward in this crooked world, it is usually necessary to follow a crooked path....
By Sivad
#15068894
Potemkin wrote:
Trotsky wrote:
The conception that Stalinism and Trotskyism are “essentially” one and the same now enjoys the joint approval of liberals, democrats, devout Catholics, idealists, pragmatists, and anarchists. If the Stalinists are unable to adhere to this “People’s Front”, then it is only because they are accidentally occupied with the extermination of Trotskyists.


I'm sure you're right , I'm sure it had everything to do with the stark contrast of ideologies and totally wasn't just about two contenders for the dear leader throne trying to destroy each other...
#15068918
Everyone can relax.

The young woman from the OP has now been the target of threats, including threats of physical violence. She has also been the target of racism, as have other students of colour at the University of Virginia.

That should teach her, right?

Now she will know better than to say that white people can make people of colour uncomfortable. Her critics have definitely shown her the truth about that.
By Sivad
#15068923
SolarCross wrote:It will not teach you though. People like you will still be agitating for a race war because you do not care about POCs you* just hate white people. You hate white people for the same reason you hate the rich, the christian, the able bodied, the male, the straight... etc etc. You just hate humans, all of us, You hate the gay and the straight, religious and the rationalist, man and the woman, black and the white, rich and the poor, old and the young. All your pretending to care about one slice of humanity against another allegedly oppressor slice is just part of a devious plan to get us all fighting each other.


That is one hundred percent accurate. These people do not give a fuck about minorities or oppression or social justice or any of the rest of it. It's just a path to power for them. And once they get into power, every group will be targeted by the prog overlords for hardcore social reconditioning.

* "you" here should be understood to be the non-human lovecraftian horrors who operate POD and the other commies like literal meat puppets.


lol
User avatar
By Ter
#15068924
Pants-of-dog wrote:
The young woman from the OP has now been the target of threats, including threats of physical violence. She has also been the target of racism, as have other students of colour at the University of Virginia.

That should teach her, right?

Now she will know better than to say that white people can make people of colour uncomfortable. Her critics have definitely shown her the truth about that.


Words have consequences.
Just ask the many people whose careers have been spoiled because of something they said (even decades ago).
User avatar
By Drlee
#15068926
Now she will know better than to say that white people can make people of colour uncomfortable. Her critics have definitely shown her the truth about that.


But of course, as usual with your arguments, this is not what she said. It is what you wish she had said in place of her childish and barely literate racist rant.
#15069045
Ter wrote:Words have consequences.
Just ask the many people whose careers have been spoiled because of something they said (even decades ago).


Okay.

What will be the consequences for all the people threatening her?

Probably none.

And what will be the consequences for her? Being made fearful for her life by white people.

—————————

this is not what she said.


People can read her words for themselves.

—————————-

I find it amusing that so many people were so offended by her words, but the best was when some of you guys were worried that this would lead to a Stalinist takeover.
#15069054
If a white guy said what she said about minorities, then his life will be ruined, his career over, and probably receive endless threats and probably be attacked.

Racism is any and all prejudice and discrimination based on race. This is racism.

But ofcourse it's all about equality I guess, with some people simply being more "equal" than others.

:knife:

Identity politics; Never ceases to be retarded.
#15069055
anasawad wrote:If a white guy said what she said about minorities, then his life will be ruined, his career over, and probably receive endless threats and probably be attacked.


Not really. A white guy said roughly the same things or worse, and he is now the president of the USA.

Racism is any and all prejudice and discrimination based on race. This is racism.


How were the white students targeted by discrimination?

How does this compare to the discrimination faced by black people in the USA?
By anasawad
#15069058
@Pants-of-dog
Not really. A white guy said roughly the same things or worse, and he is now the president of the USA.

I did follow the 2016 elections, he did not say anything near that.
His talk about Islamic terrorism is not racism, because:
1- Muslims aren't a race.
2- Most victims of Islamic terrorism are Muslims themselves.

His talk about immigration is not racism, it's simply the channeling of everyone's feelings about the excess immigration, specifically illegal immigration, which not only harm any country that has it in the rates of the US (You can see the stats on poverty, housing, homelessness in California or in North East China, South East Iran, East India, etc to see the exact same effects playing everywhere), but also harming the working class in the US since automation is killing jobs by the millions and everyone is dropping to working class from the middle class, and illegal migration causes wages to drop (Literally everywhere it takes place in large scales, including right here in Lebanon as we've seen its effects from the sudden surge in Syrians in the country) and increases poverty, as is already seen in many states across the US.

So, no, he did not say the same or even similar racist things as she did; Infact, comparing him to the democrats, it's the democrats who have bigotry of low expectations while he tends to follow the same logic on all racial and ethnic groups.

How were the white students targeted by discrimination?

Not discrimination yet, bigotry towards them.
If her statement of "too many white people" was followed by white students being kicked out, then it would be racial discrimination as well.

How does this compare to the discrimination faced by black people in the USA?

1- It's not universal; If it was, there wont be any black people in the middle and upper classes.
2- What some black communities face is irrelevant to this girl being a racist.
The existence of some racist white people does not in anyway mean she suddenly stopped being racist herself.


Perhaps starting to think more on the lines of individuals instead of collectives would give a better sense of the world.
#15069059
anasawad wrote:@Pants-of-dog

I did follow the 2016 elections, he did not say anything near that.
His talk about Islamic terrorism is not racism, because:
1- Muslims aren't a race.
2- Most victims of Islamic terrorism are Muslims themselves.

His talk about immigration is not racism, it's simply the channeling of everyone's feelings about the excess immigration, specifically illegal immigration, which not only harm any country that has it in the rates of the US (You can see the stats on poverty, housing, homelessness in California or in North East China, South East Iran, East India, etc to see the exact same effects playing everywhere), but also harming the working class in the US since automation is killing jobs by the millions and everyone is dropping to working class from the middle class, and illegal migration causes wages to drop (Literally everywhere it takes place in large scales, including right here in Lebanon as we've seen its effects from the sudden surge in Syrians in the country) and increases poverty, as is already seen in many states across the US.

So, no, he did not say the same or even similar racist things as she did; Infact, comparing him to the democrats, it's the democrats who have bigotry of low expectations while he tends to follow the same logic on all racial and ethnic groups.


Trump tried to ban all Muslims from travelling and called Mexicans rapists and criminals.

He was way more racist than this kid was.

Not discrimination yet, bigotry towards them.
If her statement of "too many white people" was followed by white students being kicked out, then it would be racial discrimination as well.


1- It's not universal; If it was, there wont be any black people in the middle and upper classes.
2- What some black communities face is irrelevant to this girl being a racist.
The existence of some racist white people does not in anyway mean she suddenly stopped being racist herself.

Perhaps starting to think more on the lines of individuals instead of collectives would give a better sense of the world.


So she did not discriminate against anyone.

And if you are defining racism as discrimination, then she was not racist.

In comparison, black people have to deal with actual discrimination frequently.
By anasawad
#15069063
@Pants-of-dog
Trump tried to ban all Muslims from traveling

1- Islam is an ideology. Muslims can be white, black, Arab, Asian, etc.
2- His first official visit was to Muslim countries.
3- The ban is focused on countries the US is currently fighting a cold war with, and countries that are known to use insurgents and gorilla warfare as their main weapon.
Also, the restrictions on these countries came from Obama, Trump simply expanded them slightly.

and called Mexicans rapists and criminals.

No he didn't, he not only specified that yes there are good people, but also his entire statement was in reference to the Mexicans who are illegally entering the US that many of them are drug traffickers and criminals, which is true. The Mexican cartels do hold and control most of these routes, and they use them for human and drug trafficking and they are criminals.
You can easily check the US security forces lists on active gangs and mobs in the US to know his statement is indeed true.

EDIT:
Noting he said Mexico isn't sending its best before saying they're bringing drugs, they're rapists.
To clarify why this is not racist with a local example from here.
Syria isn't sending its best to Lebanon. The Syrian middle class, traders, professionals all went to Europe, while all the poor ones came to Lebanon, Jordan, and Turkey, including with them all the gangs, all the criminals who escaped from prisons, many of the mercenaries who committed crimes in the war, all the Islamists who escaped etc.
Therefor, if someone came and said: Syria isn't sending us its best and adding that they're rapists and criminals and extremists all while some of them are good people about the people coming to the country here, they wont be lying, because that's a huge percentage of the people who came to the country from Syria, primarily al-Jama'a al-Islamiya people almost entirely moved to Lebanon escaping from Syria.

Well, the same applies to Trump's statements regarding illegal Mexican migrants.
Sure, there are good people using illegal routes, but the primary users are cartels, smugglers, traffickers, runaway criminals.
Noting that the majority of Mexican migration to the US is not only seasonal but mostly legal, not illegal.



He was way more racist than this kid was.

Also, Mexicans, like Muslims, are not a racial group.

Sure, Trump is a nationalist, but throwing any random buzz word doesn't really work anymore.

So she did not discriminate against anyone.

Prejudice and discrimination are not the same thing. She was prejudiced against them, but as far as I'm aware, that bigotry was not followed by an action, thus no discrimination.

Still racist.

And if you are defining racism as discrimination, then she was not racist.


"Racism is any and all prejudice and discrimination based on race."

In comparison, black people have to deal with actual discrimination frequently.

Not really, I did buy into this simple one reason explanation narrative at first, but the more anyone looks into the data, what some black communities in the US face is not due to racism.

Even the many police shootings we keep hearing about are not primarily not caused by racism.
It has much more to do with poverty, the location of these communities near or in major cities thus making it lucrative for foreign gangs to spread to them with poverty easing the way, high crime rates and internal warrior communities forming as a result of these gangs, the ease of obtaining guns both legal and illegal in the US, the breaking apart of families which although not limited to black people since it's an expected result of large cities, but also plays a role here, etc.

If it was just because of racism and being black, then it wouldn't happen all over the world with all sorts of racial and ethnic groups wherever these conditions meet.

Now, why are many black communities poor? The obvious answer is because of past discrimination right?
Wrong, it's been too long of a time that any effects from those past policies would already be remedied.
The only result remaining consequences of the post-civil war era policies in the US is the entrenchment of the class of oligarchs that was forming during the early 20th century, and this class fucks everyone equally.

The reason why it's black communities that we hear the most about being poor is that the white communities having poverty and economic problems are either rural or sub urban areas (Just look at the map of the 2016 elections, it's the huge red blob away from the coastline) , which means it's not in a strategic location for gangs to spread to since the money is in the major urban centers, as such we see far less of these events faced by poor white communities.
If the racial spread switched, and it was white people in those areas, the exact same thing would be happening to them as well.

Heck, you can see these same conditions meet in Eastern Ukraine, and the exact same problems and level of violence and isolation was facing them even before the events in the recent years.
Last edited by anasawad on 22 Feb 2020 17:01, edited 1 time in total.
#15069065
I think the solution for African Americans who feel like the young lady is to get out of the mindset that creates this binary crap thought of 'black is me. White is them. I don't like them. They don't like me." For me that is the epitome of stupidity.

Better to start off thinking? How many people here feel like they don't belong on campus because they are poor? They are unemployed? They feel like they are making a mistake socially being here? How can I get all of us together to socialize and plan on changing that?

That is the way you start changing how things work. Thinking a person's whiteness or blackness alone is what makes you a member of the human race is narrow thinking.
#15069066
anasawad wrote:@Pants-of-dog

1- Islam is an ideology. Muslims can be white, black, Arab, Asian, etc.
2- His first official visit was to Muslim countries.
3- The ban is focused on countries the US is currently fighting a cold war with, and countries that are known to use insurgents and gorilla warfare as their main weapon.
Also, the restrictions on these countries came from Obama, Trump simply expanded them slightly.


No.

The promise was to ban Muslims.

He tried to do that.

He could not because every judge that looked at it agreed it was blatant discrimination.

And this is one of many exampels of bigotry.

The differenc ebetween Trump and this young lady are many, but the important ones are these two:

1. He actually has the power to enforce his bigotry. For example, he actually put Latino kids in cages.

2. When Trump says horrible things about black people or Latinos, he is continuing a longstanding tradition of racism and discrimination against these people.

No he didn't, he not only specified that yes there are good people, but also his entire statement was in reference to the Mexicans who are illegally entering the US that many of them are drug traffickers and criminals, which is true. The Mexican cartels do hold and control most of these routes, and they use them for human and drug trafficking and they are criminals.
You can easily check the US security forces lists on active gangs and mobs in the US to know his statement is indeed true.


Also, Mexicans, like Muslims, are not a racial group.

Sure, Trump is a nationalist, but throwing any random buzz word doesn't really work anymore.


Trump was being racist. He did it knowingly. He deliberately tapped into the racism of his supporters.

Prejudice and discrimination are not the same thing. She was prejudiced against them, but as far as I'm aware, that bigotry was not followed by an action, thus no discrimination.

Still racist.


You are now changing your definition of racism.

"Racism is any and all prejudice and discrimination based on race."


Not really, I did buy into this simple one reason explanation narrative at first, but the more anyone looks into the data, what some black communities in the US face is not due to racism.

Even the many police shootings we keep hearing about are not primarily not caused by racism.
It has much more to do with poverty, the location of these communities near or in major cities thus making it lucrative for foreign gangs to spread to them with poverty easing the way, high crime rates and internal warrior communities forming as a result of these gangs, the ease of obtaining guns both legal and illegal in the US, the breaking apart of families which although not limited to black people since it's an expected result of large cities, but also plays a role here, etc.

If it was just because of racism and being black, then it wouldn't happen all over the world with all sorts of racial and ethnic groups wherever these conditions meet.

Now, why are many black communities poor? The obvious answer is because of past discrimination right?
Wrong, it's been too long of a time that any effects from those past policies would already be remedied.
The only result remaining consequences of the post-civil war era policies in the US is the entrenchment of the class of oligarchs that was forming during the early 20th century, and this class fucks everyone equally.

The reason why it's black communities that we hear the most about being poor is that the white communities having poverty and economic problems are either rural or sub urban areas (Just look at the map of the 2016 elections, it's the huge red blob away from the coastline) , which means it's not in a strategic location for gangs to spread to since the money is in the major urban centers, as such we see far less of these events faced by poor white communities.
If the racial spread switched, and it was white people in those areas, the exact same thing would be happening to them as well.

Heck, you can see these same conditions meet in Eastern Ukraine, and the exact same problems and level of violence and isolation was facing them even before the events in the recent years.


If you want to turn a blind eye to racism, that certainly helps racists get away with it.
By anasawad
#15069067
@Pants-of-dog
The promise was to ban Muslims.

He tried to do that.

He could not because every judge that looked at it agreed it was blatant discrimination.

And this is one of many exampels of bigotry.

1- Sure, and then he went ahead and made his main allies Muslims.
2- Sure, it's bigotry I guess, but not racism. Since Islam is an ideology or a spectrum of ideologies more accurately.
Though I would say it's probably not even bigotry, since some ideologies can be, and are, dangerous.


1. He actually has the power to enforce his bigotry. For example, he actually put Latino kids in cages.

Processing facilities for refugees are not "cages" or "concentration camps".
Also, although these facilities were underfunded and weren't operating to the optimal degree, separating kids from adults is actually the logical and reasonable thing to do in these circumstances, especially considering that those routes these people go through are also where all the human trafficking takes place in the North American continent.

2. When Trump says horrible things about black people or Latinos, he is continuing a longstanding tradition of racism and discrimination against these people.

Horrible things such as what?
Like, describing Baltimore as a shithole? John Stewart did the exact same thing yet he's viewed as a liberal savior and hero.

Trump was being racist. He did it knowingly. He deliberately tapped into the racism of his supporters.

He wasn't.
I added a clarification, but your post came too soon, so here it goes:
Noting he said Mexico isn't sending its best before saying they're bringing drugs, they're rapists.
To clarify why this is not racist with a local example from here.
Syria isn't sending its best to Lebanon. The Syrian middle class, traders, professionals all went to Europe, while all the poor ones came to Lebanon, Jordan, and Turkey, including with them all the gangs, all the criminals who escaped from prisons, many of the mercenaries who committed crimes in the war, all the Islamists who escaped etc.
Therefor, if someone came and said: Syria isn't sending us its best and adding that they're rapists and criminals and extremists all while some of them are good people about the people coming to the country here, they wont be lying, because that's a huge percentage of the people who came to the country from Syria, primarily al-Jama'a al-Islamiya people almost entirely moved to Lebanon escaping from Syria.

Well, the same applies to Trump's statements regarding illegal Mexican migrants.
Sure, there are good people using illegal routes, but the primary users are cartels, smugglers, traffickers, runaway criminals.
Noting that the majority of Mexican migration to the US is not only seasonal but mostly legal, not illegal.


You are now changing your definition of racism.

No I'm not, I simply copy pasted the definition I used in my very first post responding to you.
You seemed to think racism must equal discrimination, so I simply restated it again.
Add:
Prejudice and discrimination based on race are still not the same thing, one is a feeling or words, the other is action, but both are racism and discrimination is led by prejudice.

If you want to turn a blind eye to racism, that certainly helps racists get away with it.

And if you want to turn a blind eye to the real causes of the problems and blame everything on this imaginary boogyman, then we'll still be having this exact same discussion 100 years from now, probably with these problems getting a lot worse in the meantime.
User avatar
By Beren
#15069069
Pants-of-dog wrote:the best was when some of you guys were worried that this would lead to a Stalinist takeover.

It could rather lead to a Maoist takeover actually. Stalin was a white man and his system was also white and I don't think he ever felt uncomfortable around white people just because they were white. Mao was a man of colour at least and I'm sure he simply considered all white imperialists, including the Russians, filthy white people.
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