Vast protest in Hong Kong against extradition law - Page 66 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15070517
Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested on charges of illegal assembly

Hong Kong police have arrested three veteran pro-democracy figures for taking part in an unauthorised anti-government march last year amid the city’s most serious political crisis for decades.

Jimmy Lai, the founder of Next Media, which publishes the popular, anti-government Apple Daily newspaper, was picked up by police on Friday morning for taking part in a march banned by police on 31 August, according to public broadcaster RTHK.

Lai, a self-made millionaire who is an outspoken critic of Beijing and a major financial patron of Hong Kong’s pro-democracy movement, was picked up by police at his house, Cable TV and TVB News reported.

Lee Cheuk-yan, 63, the vice-chairman of the Labour Party, was also taken away by police from his home early Friday morning for taking part in the march. The party condemned the arrest as a suppression of Hong Kong people’s rights to peaceful protest.

Yeung Sum, 72, a former chairman of the Democracy Party, was also taken away by police on Friday morning, the Chinese language Ming Pao newspaper reported.

The men were arrested on suspicion of taking part in an illegal assembly, reports said. Observers say their arrests indicates that the Hong Kong government is determined to step up revenge on influential pro-democracy figures who they see as having a leading role in the months-long anti-government movement, which posed the most severe political crisis for the Beijing and Hong Kong authorities in decades.

Hundreds of thousands of protesters defied a police ban on a march on 31 August organised by Civil Human Rights Front, a group which has organised mass protests that attracted up to two million people during the political crisis prompted by a controversial extradition law which started in June last year.

During themarch, the crowds occupied major thoroughfares and protesters also besieged the government’s headquarters amid clashes with riot police. Protests and clashes later spread across the harbour to Kowloon and a group of riot police officers stormed a train at the underground Prince Edward Station, attacking demonstrators and commuters inside with batons and pepper-spray.

The event gave rise to rumours of covered-up deaths and protesters set up shrines outside the station for months and still hold small-scale protests to commemorate the attack every month.

Pro-democracy lawmaker Andrew Wan told reporters the march was not organised by the three men and their arrests would have “a chilling effect” in society.

A Hong Kong police spokesman confirmed the arrests of the three men on Friday. Without giving their names, he said the three had been charged for participating in an unauthorised assembly on August 31 last year and would be required to appear in court in May. He said Lai, 71, is also charged with criminal intimidation for an offence on June 4, 2017. Lai reportedly swore at a journalist at the pro-Beijing Oriental Daily on the occasion.

The arrests come after a period of relative calm in the Asian financial hub following months of intense anti-government protests.

Authorities in Hong Kong have arrested more than 7,000 people for their involvement in the protests, many on charges of rioting that can carry jail terms of up to 10 years. It is unclear how many are still in custody.

Public anger has grown over the months due to perceptions of China tightening its grip over the city. Beijing denies meddling and blames the West for fomenting unrest.

Lai was previously arrested in 2014 for refusing to leave a key pro-democracy protest site in the centre of the city. Following his arrest he resigned as editor in chief of Apple Daily. He has also come under scrutiny from Hong Kong’s anti-graft agency when they raided his home in 2014.

Albert Ho, a solicitor and high-profile pro-democracy politician in Hong Kong, said the arrests were part of “continued repression against Hong Kong”.

“I think I will be next,” he said. “Carrie Lam is perpetrating a plan to try to exert pressure in Hong Kong to repress the opposition, to silence.”


The arrests came days after Gui Minhai, a Hong Kong bookseller, was sentenced to 10 years in prison in China. On Thursday the United States demanded that Beijing immediately free him.

Gui, a Swedish citizen who was known for publishing salacious titles about China’s political leaders, was snatched while on a train to Beijing in February 2018 and this week sentenced on charges of illegally providing intelligence abroad.

The Guardian


I am most angry of Yeung's arrest. Not only he's the oldest of the three, but he's also the most moderate one -- one can say he would have been pro-Government had Donald Tsang's (Chief Executive 10 years ago) route be followed.

Recalling the previous post, the crackdown has begun, and maybe it's just a matter of time before even most of my contemporaries, my family or even myself get disappeared. What is the answer?
#15070520
Donna wrote:Round up the fascist bandits.


I have seen comment pieces from a non-supporter suspecting the so-called "fascist bandit" may mean up to 70% of the adult or adolescent population in Hong Kong.

The Chinese Government and their puppets (or over-achievers) in Hong Kong provoked the whole thing. We only got round up because no one round them up.
#15070543
Patrickov wrote:I have seen comment pieces from a non-supporter suspecting the so-called "fascist bandit" may mean up to 70% of the adult or adolescent population in Hong Kong.

The Chinese Government and their puppets (or over-achievers) in Hong Kong provoked the whole thing. We only got round up because no one round them up.



So, when you were questioning my attempt to ridicule left wing westerners in my thread about locust plagues and Swedes, did you realise that those same left wing westerners would happily support anything the CCP did to you? Ridicule is an important tool to undermine the credibility of one’s opponents. Of course it will be absurd, as humour often is. It would be better to let me proceed in future. After all, you wouldn’t do well if the likes of Donna dominated the West. ;)
#15070544
foxdemon wrote:

So, when you were questioning my attempt to ridicule left wing westerners in my thread about locust plagues and Swedes, did you realise that those same left wing westerners would happily support anything the CCP did to you? Ridicule is an important tool to undermine the credibility of one’s opponents. Of course it will be absurd, as humour often is. It would be better to let me proceed in future. After all, you wouldn’t do well if the likes of Donna dominated the West. ;)


Oh, I cannot even stand political ridicule uttered from my parents so it might be a personal preference matter. I should think more thoroughly in the future. Thanks.
#15070702
Patrickov wrote:I have seen comment pieces from a non-supporter suspecting the so-called "fascist bandit" may mean up to 70% of the adult or adolescent population in Hong Kong.

The Chinese Government and their puppets (or over-achievers) in Hong Kong provoked the whole thing. We only got round up because no one round them up.


I'm less concerned with who started it and how many people were involved than I am with the fact that anti-CCP protesters became a collective, chauvinistic threat to Hong Kong's minorities.
#15070747
Donna wrote:
I'm less concerned with who started it and how many people were involved than I am with the fact that anti-CCP protesters became a collective, chauvinistic threat to Hong Kong's minorities.
We need to define "minorities" here.

Those Hong Kong opposition in power rather organise things in a leftist manner and do address minorities from the West, Southeast Asia and South Asia. If anything, the most anti-minority media is a pro-CCP one, called "Oriental Daily".

Most Mainland Chinese are shunned mostly because they are habitually and ideologically pro-CCP.
Last edited by Patrickov on 29 Feb 2020 01:50, edited 2 times in total.
#15070761
Patrickov wrote:We need to define "minorities" here.

Those Hong Kong opposition in power rather organise things in a leftist manner and do address minorities from the West, Southeast Asia and South Asia. If anything, the most anti-minority media is a pro-CCP one, called "Oriental Daily".

Most Mainland Chinese are shunned mostly because they are habitually and ideologically pro-CCP.


By minorities I mean mostly South Asian and African foreign workers. Another troublesome trend among HK protesters is the embrace of Alt-Right memes and American flags as symbols.
#15070839
Donna wrote:By minorities I mean mostly South Asian and African foreign workers.

Another troublesome trend among HK protesters is the embrace of Alt-Right memes and American flags as symbols.



As I said, pro-CCP people and media are actually more hostile to minorities. Besides, minorities, even Muslims, are of very high quality in Hong Kong. I can testify that they even voluntarily tidy up places after daily prayers. Chinese, on the other hand, are not that hygienic.

Seriously, we endorse whoever displaying support to us, and the United States is the only entity having both the ability and willingness to keep Chinese totalitarians at bay. Not like we have a choice.

We should have freedom to choose who governs us to be the custodian of the society. Therefore, I find the "troublesome" statement offensive. I think this sounds very like a certain member who used to share information intensely pro-CCP and slandering legitimate protesters.
#15070983
Patrickov wrote:As I said, pro-CCP people and media are actually more hostile to minorities. Besides, minorities, even Muslims, are of very high quality in Hong Kong. I can testify that they even voluntarily tidy up places after daily prayers. Chinese, on the other hand, are not that hygienic.

Seriously, we endorse whoever displaying support to us, and the United States is the only entity having both the ability and willingness to keep Chinese totalitarians at bay. Not like we have a choice.

We should have freedom to choose who governs us to be the custodian of the society. Therefore, I find the "troublesome" statement offensive. I think this sounds very like a certain member who used to share information intensely pro-CCP and slandering legitimate protesters.


I just can't get behind this movement. It's supported by billionaires and Western imperialists, they incorporate fascist memes and symbols, they are stubbornly anti-communist and are fighting for the autonomy of a powerful financial center. They also have a bias against poorer Mainlanders (this even shows in your response).

Maybe the protesters aren't the worst imaginable "troublesome" but the movement is inauthentic. My experience with it online is that it attracts a large cross section of rich Asian kids sharing frog memes and flirting with right-wing ideologies.
#15070986
Donna wrote:
I just can't get behind this movement. It's supported by billionaires and Western imperialists, they incorporate fascist memes and symbols, they are stubbornly anti-communist and are fighting for the autonomy of a powerful financial center. They also have a bias against poorer Mainlanders (this even shows in your response).

Maybe the protesters aren't the worst imaginable "troublesome" but the movement is inauthentic. My experience with it online is that it attracts a large cross section of rich Asian kids sharing frog memes and flirting with right-wing ideologies.


Seriously, the left ideologies either failed us or caused the trouble we face. Strong communities (against power grabbers) are more capacle to accept left ideologies, but ours are weak because China is so massive in numbers and those in power have been very invasive.

Mainlanders are welcome as long as they do not put nationalism or selfish aims over legitimate dissent.

It is free not to support the movement (I actually am not a keen supporter either) but I urge critics consider our situation and why the protesters need to be so assertive. This is a reaction instead of anything active.

Please read my response in the "China a Fascist State" thread. If anything China is more fascist than we do.
#15070988
Patrickov wrote:Seriously, the left ideologies either failed us or caused the trouble we face.


That isn't a valid excuse for embracing right-wing and chauvinistic ideologies, however rational it may seem.

Mainlanders are welcome as long as they do not put nationalism or selfish aims over legitimate dissent.


But where is the solidarity of the HK protesters for poor Mainlanders? There is none. They want nothing to do with them.

It is free not to support the movement (I actually am not a keen supporter either) but I urge critics consider their situation and why they need to be so assertive. This is a reaction instead of anything active.


That's a fair criticism. I was initially supportive of the movement (I'm not pro-CCP by any means), but that began to change when it started developing synergy with right-wingers in the West.

Please read my response in the "China a Fascist State" thread. If anything China is more fascist than we do.


I do not agree. Perhaps China is authoritarian, totalitarian, etc., but a country ruled by a Marxist-Leninist party cannot be accurately described as fascist.
#15070992
Donna wrote:But where is the solidarity of the HK protesters for poor Mainlanders? There is none. They want nothing to do with them.

That's a fair criticism. I was initially supportive of the movement (I'm not pro-CCP by any means), but that began to change when it started developing synergy with right-wingers in the West.


Many Mainlanders are in fact fiercely supportive of the CCP and want our death (so that they can "take our place"). And CCP had suppressed as much information that is remotely supportive to us as they can.

The problem is, who we oppose use left-wing idea to infiltrate and undermine us. I fail to see why some (not a majority and definitely not for those getting power -- the newly elected councillors are very open and enlightened) people going right-wing is wrong.
#15070993
Patrickov wrote:Many Mainlanders are in fact fiercely supportive of the CCP and want our death (so that they can "take our place"). And CCP had suppressed as much information that is remotely supportive to us as they can.

The problem is, who we oppose use left-wing idea to infiltrate and undermine us. I fail to see why some (not a majority and definitely not for those getting power -- the newly elected councillors are very open and enlightened) people going right-wing is wrong.


It's not wrong per se, it's just weak. Your rebellion will be doomed if it is unable to form a connection with poor Mainlanders. Both need each other - Hong Kongers need the solidarity of the Mainland in order to mount a successful uprising against the CCP bureaucracy, and conversely, the Mainlanders need the Hong Kongers to give them a voice outside of China.
#15070996
Donna wrote:It's not wrong per se, it's just weak. Your rebellion will be doomed if it is unable to form a connection with poor Mainlanders. Both need each other - Hong Kongers need the solidarity of the Mainland in order to mount a successful uprising against the CCP bureaucracy, and conversely, the Mainlanders need the Hong Kongers to give them a voice outside of China.


Uhm, the poor and disenfranchised in China probably flock to right wing ideologies.(They don't have a choice here though, because its a 1 party system) You are forgetting that the CCP is officially socialist i guess. So why would they trust somebody who is of the same ideology that is keeping them poor/disenfranchised. :roll:
#15070998
JohnRawls wrote:Uhm, the poor and disenfranchised in China probably flock to right wing ideologies.(They don't have a choice here though, because its a 1 party system) You are forgetting that the CCP is officially socialist i guess. So why would they trust somebody who is of the same ideology that is keeping them poor/disenfranchised. :roll:


I'm just saying the uprising will fail. Take from that what you wish.
#15070999
Donna wrote:I'm just saying the uprising will fail. Take from that what you wish.


Its not an uprising, it is a protest. And it will not fail because China is not in a position to supress it physically because they will get sanctioned straight away which is something that they don't want. This also doesn't solve the problems that they are currently experiencing aka all falling in line for the benelovent rule of the CCP. This doesn't just apply to HK or Tibet/Ugyurs. This actually applies to the average Chinese in all of the regions. Once income levels reach a certain point then you start caring for things like freedom of choice, freedom of press, freedom of creativity etc which China has none. So the protest will not go anywhere any time soon. On the contrary, more and more Chinese will join it over time if the economic conditions in China will keep improving. Then again, if the economic conditions do not improve or collapse then the CCP will be blamed also. So the CCP is kinda fucked in the long term.
#15071009
There is no certainty that the CCP can't adapt to societal changes.

The core message will be that China is unique. Thousands of years of 'Civilization' and culture, the very center of the world until the past two or three centuries. Add paranoia of foreigners keeping the Motherland down which holds considerable truth given history, mix with rising living standards and serve to the masses.

We can't assume that your average Chinese citizen will share the same philosophy on society as other parts of the world. Stability is paramount in Chinese society. A return to the state of local Warlords is the real nightmare scenario in China.
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