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User avatar
By jimjam
#15080447
annatar1914 wrote:your religious views

are my own fucking business. You are obviously a slow learner as most know it alls seem to be. Please reference my above post where I mention that I discuss my spiritual/religious views with NOBODY.
User avatar
By annatar1914
#15080454
jimjam wrote:are my own fucking business. You are obviously a slow learner as most know it alls seem to be. Please reference my above post where I mention that I discuss my spiritual/religious views with NOBODY.


So they have no influence on your political views or have any social dimension to them? I find that surprising if true. But since you seem to be a bit excited about talking about it, I'll mention as I have before about the sheer pragmatic stupidity of Democratic contempt for religious people...

You at least can see that that is true.
User avatar
By Drlee
#15080461
I have never in my life met a person more able than I to live at peace with persons of all religious beliefs. Never ….I pride myself on my ability to accept all beliefs except the most extreme (as in Nazi).


Nonsense. People who can "live at peace with persons of all religious beliefs" do not call them "Dupes" and "Hopelessly Gullible". You can try to walk your bullshit back all that you want to but you deliberately offended me and every other religious person in the world (it would appear including your wife) when you used your deliberately insulting description of them.

But ……………….. You didn't answer my question. Could Donald be playing the religious card strictly to gain power and control of the U.S. treasury?


I most certainly did answer your question in my post. I said " I don't believe for a moment that Trump gives one shit about religion but he is appointing conservative judges who do".

Your words have consequences. You deliberately and openly slammed religious people. @annatar1914 and I are tying to tell you just what the consequences of doing this are.

There is not the slightest doubt that the republican party is the least "Christian" of the two. What is also not in doubt is that they Republican Party is the one that is far more accepting of Judeo-Christian beliefs and takes positive action to ensure that those beliefs have force in the political debate. The Democratic Party runs shrieking from the room if someone so much as breathes a prayer under their breath. In some misguided notion of pluralism it has marginalized Christian beliefs at the very best and behaved openly hostile to them in more than a few cases. The Democratic Party IS a secular party, wants to be one, and has come to accept that they are going to lose the conservative (about religion) vote. Very telling is their platform which speaks of religion only by saying this:

Religious Minorities

We are horrified by ISIS’ genocide and sexual enslavement of Christians and Yezidis and crimes against humanity against Muslims and others in the Middle East. We will do everything we can to protect religious minorities and the fundamental right of freedom of religion


Lukewarm at the very best. But mainstream Christians, Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox in the US are not "religious minorities" and frankly do not give much of a fuck what followers of Wicca do or say. This statement of the democratic party reduces all of the depth and scope of our religious beliefs to the "fundamental right of freedom of religion".

Republicans:

Because of the vital role of religious organizations, charities, and fraternal benevolent societies in fostering gen-erosity and patriotism, they should not be subject to taxation and donations to them should remain deductible.


We the People We are the party of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. The Declaration sets forth the fundamental precepts of American government: That God bestows certain inalienable rights on every individual, thus producing human equality; that government exists first and foremost to protect those inalienable rights; that man-made law must be consistent with God-given, natural rights; and that if God-given, natural, inalienable rights come in conflict with government, court, or human-granted rights, God-given, natural, inalienable rights always prevail; that there is a moral law recognized as “the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God”; and that American government is to operate with the consent of the governed. We are also the party of the Constitution, the greatest political document ever written. It is the solemn compact built upon principles of the Declaration that enshrines our God-given individual rights and ensures that all Americans stand equal before the law, defines the purposes and limits of government, and is the blueprint for ordered liberty that makes the United States the world’s freest and most prosperous nation.

We denounce bigotry, racism, anti-Semitism, ethnic prejudice, and religious intolerance. Therefore, we oppose discrimination based on race, sex, religion, creed, disability, or national origin and support statutes to end such discrimination.


... five unelected lawyers robbed 320 million Americans of their legitimate constitutional authority to define marriage as the union of one man and one woman.


You don't have to read this stuff but just weigh it.

The First Amendment: Religious LibertyThe Bill of Rights lists religious liberty, with its rights of conscience, as the first freedom to be protected. Religious freedom in the Bill of Rights protects the right of the people to practice their faith in their everyday lives. As George Washington taught, “religion and morality are indispensable supports” to a free society. Similarly, Thomas Jefferson declared that “No provision in our Constitution ought to be dearer to man than that which protects the rights of conscience against the enterprises of the civil authority.” Ongoing attempts to compel individuals, businesses, and institutions of faith to transgress their beliefs are part of a misguided effort to undermine religion and drive it from the public square. As a result, many charitable religious institutions that have demonstrated great success in helping the needy have been barred from receiving government grants and contracts. Government officials threaten religious colleges and universities with massive fines and seek to control their personnel decisions. Places of worship for the first time in our history have reason to fear the loss of tax-exempt status merely for espousing and practicing traditional religious beliefs that have been held across the world for thousands of years, and for almost four centuries in America. We value the right of America’s religious leaders to preach, and Americans to speak freely, according to their faith. Republicans believe the federal government, specifically the IRS, is constitutionally prohibited from policing or censoring speech based on religious convictions or beliefs, and therefore we urge the repeal of the Johnson Amendment.We pledge to defend the religious beliefs and rights of conscience of all Americans and to safeguard religious institutions against government control. We endorse the First Amendment Defense Act, Republican legislation in the House and Senate which will bar government discrimination against individuals and businesses for acting on the belief that marriage is the union of one man and one woman. This Act would protect the non-profit tax status of faith-based adoption agencies, the accreditation of religious educational institutions, the grants and contracts of faith-based charities and small businesses, and the licensing of religious professions — all of which are under assault by elements of the Democratic Party. We encourage every state to pass similar legislation. We likewise endorse the efforts of Republican state legislators and governors who have defied intimidation from corporations and the media in defending religious liberty. We support laws to confirm the longstanding • REPUBLICANPLATFORM 2016 •We pledgeto defend the religious beliefs and rights of conscience of all Americans and to safeguard religious institutions against government control.
12American tradition that religious individuals and institutions can educate young people, receive government benefits, and participate in public debates without having to check their religious beliefs at the door.Our First Amendment rights are not given to us by the government but are rights we inherently possess. The government cannot use subsequent amendments to limit First Amendment rights. The Free Exercise Clause is both an individual and a collective liberty protecting a right to worship God according to the dictates of conscience. Therefore, we strongly support the freedom of Americans to act in accordance with their religious beliefs, not only in their houses of worship, but also in their everyday lives.We support the right of the people to conduct their businesses in accordance with their religious beliefs and condemn public officials who have proposed boycotts against businesses that support traditional marriage. We pledge to protect those business owners who have been subjected to hate campaigns, threats of violence, and other attempts to deny their civil rights. We support the public display of the Ten Commandments as a reflection of our history and our country’s Judeo-Christian heritage and further affirm the rights of religious students to engage in voluntary prayer at public school events and to have equal access to school facilities. We assert the First Amendment right of freedom of association for religious, private, service, and youth organizations to set their own membership standar



There is not one shred of doubt that the Republican Party is more friendly toward and more likely to defend the religious beliefs of the majority of Americans. You need to understand this and understand that the vast majority of American's devout religious find comfort in knowing that their religious beliefs, which they see as under assault, will be better protected by Trump and his henchmen than they would be under Biden or any other democrat. That is just a fact.

Words matter. Watch yours. That is unless you secretly want to drive more and more voters into the Trump camp.

As to your Private spirituality. I don't really care much about light hidden under the proverbial bushel. There is altogether too much of that now. I cringe when I hear, "I don't care for religion but I am a very spiritual person". Who isn't in their own mind. We are not taking now about some vague metaphysical matrix in which someone weaves their life. We are talking about the overt love of God and His presence in ones life, public and private. Religion ought to and does affect the way we conduct our public lives including our political life. It ought to. If one is an atheist then one ought to vote that preference. If they are religious, same thing. To do otherwise is the height of hypocrisy.
User avatar
By jimjam
#15080468
Drlee wrote:I don't really care


Obviously ………….. You and 1914 seem to know more about me than I do myself and have judged me to be quite the asshole. Here now is my turn to be pissed. all of my life I have had little use for judgmental know it alls.

I suggest we move on...…………. this is a hateful dead end.
User avatar
By Stormsmith
#15080477
annatar1914 wrote:The reason still stands that religious people in this country are political because their beliefs have a social and therefore political dimension, and feel themselves actively excluded by the Democratic Party and other political forces from expressing those beliefs socially or politically, or setting an agenda politically that differs from that of the Liberal worldview.

I would be willing to bet that your religious views are expressed as an absolute negative opposite to that of such religious people as I've just mentioned, towards not allowing them to win politically on certain issues or even to express a contrary opinion on them that threatens the Liberal political order. Say, on sexual morality, drugs, crime, the traditional family/marriage and on abortion, along with other issues.


I appreciate most of what you have written but those avid supporters of President Trump are endorsing policies such as kennelling children, destroying their families by kidnapping, and so on. I wont go through the list of his crimminal policies. But how the heck Trump's supporters can declare themselves Christians is beyond me.


EDIT

I'll mention as I have before about the sheer pragmatic stupidity of Democratic contempt for religious people...

You at least can see that that is true.


I don't see that at all. It isn't left of centre people that blow up churches and temples, full stop.
User avatar
By jimjam
#15080500
Stormsmith wrote:But how the heck Trump's supporters can declare themselves Christians is beyond me.


they have made a deal with the devil...….. in return for some scraps from the table, "conservative judges and empty words from their favorite con artist, they helped Donald obtain the keys to the federal treasury AND the dollar bill printing press.

I attended a Sunday service at a mega church out in Idaho last Summer. The only part of the preacher's sermon that I recall was his lengthy plug for Donald. He wanted folks to vote for Donald because he is "a real man". The marriage of religion and politics is truly a marriage made in ………… Heaven ……... :hmm:
User avatar
By annatar1914
#15080515
@Stormsmith ;

I appreciate most of what you have written but those avid supporters of President Trump are endorsing policies such as kennelling children, destroying their families by kidnapping, and so on. I wont go through the list of his crimminal policies. But how the heck Trump's supporters can declare themselves Christians is beyond me.


They obviously don't perceive those policies in the manner that you or I might, and they're hardly ''Criminal'', as Border Patrol has been doing these things for years at the behest of GOP and Democratic Administrations alike.


EDIT



I don't see that at all. It isn't left of centre people that blow up churches and temples, full stop.


Outside of radical Jihadi Muslims, the ones blowing up churches and temples can hardly be described as ''Conservatives'' in any meaningful sense. Most of the time in fact these bastards have a raging hatred of all spiritual as well as earthly authorities, and do not usually believe in a God of any kind.
User avatar
By Drlee
#15080524
Outside of radical Jihadi Muslims, the ones blowing up churches and temples can hardly be described as ''Conservatives'' in any meaningful sense. Most of the time in fact these bastards have a raging hatred of all spiritual as well as earthly authorities, and do not usually believe in a God of any kind.


QFT.
User avatar
By Stormsmith
#15080547
@jimjam

HUH. I thought plugging a politian was/is a no-no, possibly losing the churches tax free status.


@annatar1914

They obviously don't perceive those policies in the manner that you or I might, and they're hardly ''Criminal'', as Border Patrol has been doing these things for years at the behest of GOP and Democratic Administrations alike.


I believe they are criminaĺ. Judges have told President Trump several times to 1. Knock it off and 2. Restore the families. This didn't happen, in fact, they carry on'd carrying off kids. No other president was taken to court, so I can't make a comprarison

Outside of radical Jihadi Muslims, the ones blowing up churches and temples can hardly be described as ''Conservatives'' in any meaningful sense. Most of the time in fact these bastards have a raging hatred of all spiritual as well as earthly authorities, and do not usually believe in a God of any kind.


I agree they aren't traditionaĺ, but we'd have to see how they voted or claim to support. I can't blame any one president since bad stuff has happened all my life, but President Trump has appealed to them for their votes, hasn't he.
User avatar
By annatar1914
#15080665
I believe they are criminaĺ.


Irrelevant.


Judges have told President Trump several times to 1. Knock it off and 2. Restore the families.


Liberal Judges who have an animus against President Trump and who are politicizing from the bench something that they tolerated for many decades.



This didn't happen, in fact, they carry on'd carrying off kids. No other president was taken to court, so I can't make a comprarison


This may be uncomfortable for you to hear, but there is a lot of child sex trafficking, human slavery trafficking, and smuggling along the border, as long as there's been a border really. Nobody knows for sure if the adults who are dragging these children along to cross the border illegally are really their parents or legal guardians. As harsh as it may seem to you, it's a prudent and safe feature to be able to isolate them and figure these things out. But you likely won't hear that from the mainstream media, who loves a narrative of official cruelty and parents been separated from their children.


I agree they aren't traditionaĺ, but we'd have to see how they voted or claim to support.


A lot of these Nutjobs have had a social media and internet presence, and so their politics if any can be seen. I haven't seen one yet looking at what has come out after their murder sprees that didn't hate religion, government, and really, people in general.



I can't blame any one president since bad stuff has happened all my life, but President Trump has appealed to them for their votes, hasn't he.


His enemies sure haven't appealed for their votes, have they? :lol: :roll:

Come on, you know that's true. Secularized Liberals don't want the Religious really to exist, much less seek out their votes, and the Religious know it.
User avatar
By jimjam
#15080676
Thomas Jefferson noted that: "A press that is free to investigate and criticize the government is absolutely essential in a nation that practices self-government and is therefore dependent on an educated and enlightened citizenry. On the other hand, newspapers too often take advantage of their freedom and publish lies and scurrilous gossip that could only deceive and mislead the people."

Fox News is able to get away with so many lies because a large fraction of the US population actually celebrates ignorance.

On Tuesday, Danny issued a statement that did not address older Americans but did say that if Trump decides more time is needed, he trusts the president's judgement. :eek:
User avatar
By Stormsmith
#15080804
annatar1914 wrote:Irrelevant.


Sounds better written by Pants of Dog. That claimed, it was also the belief of federal judges including Republicans.

Liberal Judges who have an animus against President Trump and who are politicizing from the bench something that they tolerated for many decades.


Animus? Or simply interpreting an action with an unbiased interpretation of the law. You seem to be presupposing something you have not proved.


This may be uncomfortable for you to hear, but there is a lot of child sex trafficking, human slavery trafficking, and smuggling along the border, as long as there's been a border really. Nobody knows for sure if the adults who are dragging these children along to cross the border illegally are really their parents or legal guardians. As harsh as it may seem to you, it's a prudent and safe feature to be able to isolate them and figure these things out. But you likely won't hear that from the mainstream media, who loves a narrative of official cruelty and parents been separated from their children.


This is what federal judge Dana Sabraw, (Republican) said:

Blasting the Trump administration for what he called “a chaotic circumstance of the Government’s own making,” Sabraw said it was a “startling reality” that no adequate planning had been done before officials embarked on a policy to separate children from parents kept in immigration custody or referred for criminal prosecution. The practice has led to more than 2,300 children being separated from their parents or other family members.

“The government readily keeps track of personal property of detainees in criminal and immigration proceedings,” Sabraw wrote in his 24-page order. “Money, important documents, and automobiles, to name a few, are routinely catalogued, stored, tracked and produced upon a detainee’s release, at all levels — state and federal, citizen and alien. Yet, the government has no system in place to keep track of, provide effective communication with, and promptly produce alien children. The unfortunate reality is that under the present system migrant children are not accounted for with the same efficiency and accuracy as property. Certainly, that cannot satisfy the requirements of due process.”


https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/26/judge-orders-trump-reunite-migrant-families-678809

In a different case he alluded to your claim, clearly indicating a distinction between the legal and illegal.


A lot of these Nutjobs have had a social media and internet presence, and so their politics if any can be seen. I haven't seen one yet looking at what has come out after their murder sprees that didn't hate religion, government, and really, people in general. His enemies sure haven't appealed for their votes, have they? :lol: :roll:


Well no, Democrats aren't interested in the David Duke types, but President Trump is.

Come on, you know that's true. Secularized Liberals don't want the Religious really to exist, much less seek out their votes, and the Religious know it.


I don't know many secularised Liberals but those i do know dont object to religion. They support atheism. It wouldn't affect their vote. Policy would.
User avatar
By annatar1914
#15080808
Sounds better written by Pants of Dog. That claimed, it was also the belief of federal judges including Republicans.


You mean to say rather, if you intend to say more, Liberal judges who happen to establishment GOP members.


Animus? Or simply interpreting an action with an unbiased interpretation of the law. You seem to be presupposing something you have not proved.


No that's exactly what you're doing, being as this policy is a long-standing one well before Trump's time.




T
his is what federal judge Dana Sabraw, (Republican) said:



https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/26/judge-orders-trump-reunite-migrant-families-678809

In a different case he alluded to your claim, clearly indicating a distinction between the legal and illegal.


That's not law that Judge is exercising, but legislation from the bench, personal opinions attempting to usurp the legal process not uphold it.



Well no, Democrats aren't interested in the David Duke types, but President Trump is.


You are terribly misinformed. Trump wants the Black vote, not the David Duke types. You should hear their disappointment with him online in regards to that fact. He never wanted or needed them.


I don't know many secularised Liberals but those i do know dont object to religion. They support atheism. It wouldn't affect their vote. Policy would.


By the very way you phrase that you are being disingenuous, because you should know as well as anyone that cultural/religious beliefs have a social and political impact as believers express their views at the ballot box-same as others.

That's why Liberals are beginning to migrate and will eventually all migrate to parties with a Libertarian political philosophy in the future. If Libertarian philosophy gains sway, no chance at having a society with a Judeo-Christian foundation in the future, and a future to be Libertines.
User avatar
By jimjam
#15080855
annatar1914 wrote:it's a prudent and safe feature to be able to isolate them and figure these things out. But you likely won't hear that from the mainstream media, who loves a narrative of official cruelty and parents been separated from their children.


Well …… I guess that aces it. These little kids are being treated prudently and safely. No cruelty and separation from parents here. That evil evil "mainstream media" 100% wrong 100% of the time …….

:hmm: I wonder where the mainstream ends and …………….. the other streams begin :?: And how the fuck do we measure the veracity of a "stream"?

GOOD LORD! I may have to engage in cognitive thinking ……….. :lol:
User avatar
By annatar1914
#15080863
jimjam wrote:Well …… I guess that aces it. These little kids are being treated prudently and safely. No cruelty and separation from parents here. That evil evil "mainstream media" 100% wrong 100% of the time …….

:hmm: I wonder where the mainstream ends and …………….. the other streams begin :?: And how the fuck do we measure the veracity of a "stream"?

GOOD LORD! I may have to engage in cognitive thinking ……….. :lol:


Total strawman hysterical ''thinking''. Straight down the mental toilet.
User avatar
By jimjam
#15080866
annatar1914 wrote:Total strawman hysterical ''thinking''. Straight down the mental toilet.


You are …… awesome. Do you really have a toilet for a brain ? :?: .

Stay safe my friend.
User avatar
By annatar1914
#15080880
jimjam wrote:You are …… awesome. Do you really have a toilet for a brain ? :?: .

Stay safe my friend.


Listen, we're at the point where everybody's emotions are a little amplified a bit lately, and after a while it isn't healthy, the clashes. It gets pretty toxic.

I do want you to stay safe as well, we've gotten along pretty good before and now shouldn't be an exception. We'll get through all this, I'm sure. God bless and protect you and yours and all of us.
User avatar
By jimjam
#15084202
“The president of the United States calls the shots,” Donald said. “They can’t do anything without the approval of the president of the United States.” Asked what provisions of the Constitution gave him the power to override the states if they wanted to remain closed, he said, “Numerous provisions,” without, as usual, naming any.

As for Trump "re-opening" the country, I'm laughing at that. Many people will decide for themselves whether they go back to work. Remember trump said he wasn’t “a shipping clerk” when governors came looking for PPE and ventilators? He said it was up to the governors to find their own. And so they have. Once you abdicate from your position of responsibility Donald, you cede your authority to the ones who took up that mantle.

"Happy to do your (Donald's) job, too. Just give me control of the Army Corps of Engineers and I’ll take it from there." Governor Cuomo.
User avatar
By jimjam
#15084209
annatar1914 wrote:Listen, we're at the point where everybody's emotions are a little amplified a bit lately, and after a while it isn't healthy, the clashes. It gets pretty toxic.

I do want you to stay safe as well, we've gotten along pretty good before and now shouldn't be an exception. We'll get through all this, I'm sure. God bless and protect you and yours and all of us.


@annatar1914 @Drlee Sorry for the delayed response and my obnoxious behavior. I do have an "excuse" as follows: I have been taking a medication, briviact, that has some unpleasant side effects. Among other things: aggressiveness and anger. When I first saw that as a "warning" I thought, "No way. I have been laid back and generally low key all of my life." WRONG ….. this damn pill has changed my personality. Fortunately, not all of the time but ….. it comes and goes. I appologise for my recent behavior toward U2.
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