" Trump Has Sabotaged America’s Coronavirus Response" - Page 64 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15080756
Pants-of-dog wrote:No. The fact that a minority of Trump supporters may disagree with a certain policy does not change the fact that most of them seem unintelligent.


The statement I object was the assumption that most Trump supporters are glad to see others die, not them being stupid (which I already expressed agreement but also indifference).

The "glad to see others die" accusation is hard to prove for but easy to prove against (which I already did by referring Member Ter). Even on PoFo I probably only see one pro-Trump member actually having that thought. Others merely spend their time accusing anti-Trumpers.
#15080762
Patrickov wrote:The statement I object was the assumption that most Trump supporters are glad to see others die, not them being stupid (which I already expressed agreement but also indifference).


Both are probably true.

The "glad to see others die" accusation is hard to prove for but easy to prove against (which I already did by referring Member Ter). Even on PoFo I probably only see one pro-Trump member actually having that thought. Others merely spend their time accusing anti-Trumpers.


Irrelevant.
#15080773
Pants-of-dog wrote:Both are probably true.

Irrelevant.


I already proved one false. The "irrelevant" seems denial to me. Again, the advocate should give proof first, and now it is even more necessary because counter-proof is given -- at least it is false on PoFo.
#15080786
maz wrote:Image

Apparently for the coronavirus cultists in the media, it's ok for people to fuck off and die from anything else except for the coronavirus. It's nothing but corona death hype 24/7 and nothing else.


The fact that deaths by abortion is listed indicates this is indented for a very specific audience. I think it would be better if that were not there, so that it's clearly more neutral looking. The point is still made without the abortion statistic.
#15080788
This is the same guy who wants to mow down the Amazon jungle for profit. He actually makes Donald look good :eek: .

As coronavirus cases and deaths mount in Brazil, President Jair Bolsonaro has remained defiant. Brazilians, he declared last week, are uniquely suited to weather the pandemic because they can be dunked in raw sewage and “don’t catch a thing.” “God is Brazilian,” :eek: :eek: he told a throng of supporters. “The cure is right there.” .

In much of the country, his words were drowned out by protesters banging pans and chanting “Down with Bolsonaro!”
#15080801
Pants-of-dog wrote:As a leftist, I would say that it is obvious that people have differing levels of intelligence.

Trump supporters seem to be more stupid than other people, for example.

They seem to think that letting thousands of people die is a good response to the Coronavirus.


POD: You generally post in a sedated manner, like a true gentleman. Your vituperative unbridled post is out of character for you.

How can Trump prevent people from dying? Be specific please.

You were you outraged about the number of illegal chinese people that entered America. Do you think Trump could have done more to stop people from China coming into the country?
Last edited by Julian658 on 01 Apr 2020 23:52, edited 1 time in total.
#15080802
maz wrote:Apparently for the coronavirus cultists in the media, it's ok for people to fuck off and die from anything else except for the coronavirus. It's nothing but corona death hype 24/7 and nothing else.


Lol @ Maz getting pissy that cable news covers current events. Is there a term for whatabousism, but whinier than normal?

Also we can get that abortion number up higher, Allah willing. It's a shame that women don't have easier access to reproductive planning services.
#15080811
Julian658 wrote:How can Trump prevent people from dying? Be specific please.


As I said, and which you already ignored:

I would have implemented free testing immediately. If the kits were not available, then I would have set up labs with technicians for testing samples that were mailed in by doctors.

I also would not have required proof of legal residency for people being tested.

I would have listened to the security briefings that warned that this could be a problem.

I would have paid attention when the previous administration tried to advise me about this.

I would have listened to experts and agreed with them.

I would act as a role model of social distancing.

I would have created a social safety net for people who lose their jobs.

The list goes on....

You think Trump could have done more to stop people from China coming into the country?


No.

But he could have provided free testing and treatment for undocumented migrants from China.
#15080812
Pants-of-dog wrote:As I said, and which you already ignored:

I would have implemented free testing immediately. If the kits were not available, then I would have set up labs with technicians for testing samples that were mailed in by doctors.

I also would not have required proof of legal residency for people being tested.

I would have listened to the security briefings that warned that this could be a problem.

I would have paid attention when the previous administration tried to advise me about this.

I would have listened to experts and agreed with them.

I would act as a role model of social distancing.

I would have created a social safety net for people who lose their jobs.

The list goes on....



No.



POD:

Regurgitating the same platitudes is getting old. Most of your concerns are being attended to. Otherwise your Monday morning quarterbacking is just a lump of "what ifs".

But he could have provided free testing and treatment for undocumented migrants from China.


You are contradicting yourself. You complain that Trump does not take care of Americans and then you want Trump to provide for illegal aliens. Which one is it?

Are you in favor of allowing illegal aliens to enter the country during this emergency?
#15080813
Pants-of-dog wrote:As a leftist, I would say that it is obvious that people have differing levels of intelligence.

Trump supporters seem to be more stupid than other people


That is the most crude IQ test in the world!

POD IQ test:

Do you favor Trump?

YES: IQ 70
NO: IQ 160

BONUS QUESTION: are you a lefty?
YES: IQ 180

Are you a commie?

YES: IQ 200

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
#15080815
Julian658 wrote:POD:

Regurgitating the same platitudes is getting old. Most of your concerns are being attended to. Otherwise your Monday morning quarterbacking is just a lump of "what ifs".


You do not seem to know what the word “platitudes” means.

And no, Trump is not doing most of these things. Or maybe even any of them. And if he has started, he started far too late.

Free testing, for example: has this been implemented anywhere?

You are contradicting yourself. You complain that Trump does not take care of Americans and then you want Trump to provide for illegal aliens. Which one is it?


There is no contradiction. Trump can help US citizens in the USA by testing, isolating, and treating undocumented migrants in the USA. This stops the rate of infection in the USA, helping protect US citizens in the USA.

Are you in favor of allowing illegal aliens to enter the country during this emergency?


That question makes no sense. Trump, ICE, the border patrol, and even the undocumented migrants do not care if I am “in favor of allowing” anything. Why should any of them care about my opinion?

The important thing is whether or not they came from an infected area and need to be tested.

I see the intelligence comment got you mad. Do you not agree that people have different levels of intelligence?
#15080852
Pants-of-dog wrote:You do not seem to know what the word “platitudes” means.

And no, Trump is not doing most of these things. Or maybe even any of them. And if he has started, he started far too late.

Free testing, for example: has this been implemented anywhere?



There is no contradiction. Trump can help US citizens in the USA by testing, isolating, and treating undocumented migrants in the USA. This stops the rate of infection in the USA, helping protect US citizens in the USA.



That question makes no sense. Trump, ICE, the border patrol, and even the undocumented migrants do not care if I am “in favor of allowing” anything. Why should any of them care about my opinion?

The important thing is whether or not they came from an infected area and need to be tested.

I see the intelligence comment got you mad. Do you not agree that people have different levels of intelligence?


More platitudes and virtue signaling POD! :knife:

Image

Let's be truthful for once. People in the left despise Trump and they will do anything they can to bring him down. I am no Trump fan------- he is a narcissist and says a lot of BS and lies on the podium. I would rather have Mitt Romney up there. However, anyone can see he is doing his best! But, he will never please the left because of tribalism.

If Bernie Sanders was the President I would be rooting for him and wishing him the best. I would not second guess every decision he made. Meanwhile, you are not fair or truthful. Your posts come from the perspective of a corrupted pragmatist socialist. You say whatever you need to say to drive your socialist agenda. Trump could come up with a vaccine for Corona virus tomorrow and you would say he should have done it a year ago. You condemned Trump for his inability to stop illegal Chinese illegal aliens after the block of travel from China. You went as far as to go against your views of free borders to put down Trump. That is pragmatism of the worst kind POD.
#15080862
Politics_Observer wrote:@MistyTiger



Bush is a good man but he did under-estimate what war really was and the costs of war initially in his Presidency. I also believe he was focused on Iraq rather than where it needed to be in Afghanistan to kill or capture Bin Laden and other Al-queda members as well as ensure that Afghanistan doesn't become a safe haven for terrorists again. He took his eye off he ball by adventuring off into left field somewhere in Iraq for god only knows why.

I certainly never brought the premise of Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq and I think this was used as a pre-text to invade Iraq. In addition, the US Army War College categorized the invasion of Iraq as a "strategic error" which I agree with. In my opinion, Bush made the wrong decision to invade Iraq as it took focus off where it needed to be which was the war in Afghanistan. I do think Bush cares about our soldiers and has tremendous respect for our soldiers. He just made some mistakes as one of our past Presidents. I think Bush learned a very hard lesson.

Unfortunately, it costed the lives of American troops whose duty was to do as they were told as professional soldiers who swore an oath. I don't think Bush is a bad person, but I think he thought our occupation of Iraq was going to be easier than it turned out to be. Fortunately for Bush, he had General David Petraeus who saved our asses from the mistakes of the politicians in Iraq. America owes a huge debt of gratitude to General Petraeus for his leadership during our occupation of Iraq. It would have been a lot more worse without his leadership.

The bright side of the whole mess is that at least Saddam is no longer in power. I do think Iraq is better off without Saddam but I question the wisdom and the premise of the costly invasion to begin with.


The WMDs claim was a sham. They never found any.

The Iraq war has made the region very unstable. The rebels and the Kurds, Sunnis and Shi'ites are constantly fighting. Under Saddam, life was a bit more peaceful. Dictatorships are oppressive but Iraq should not have been a war zone.

Bush is a nice guy actually. He even has a sense of humor. But I think he was not suitable for the presidency. He had some tough decisions and followed erroneous leads that have been so costly for Americans. I am glad that a term is only 4 years.
#15080867
Julian658 wrote:More platitudes and virtue signaling POD! :knife:

......

Let's be truthful for once. People in the left despise Trump and they will do anything they can to bring him down. I am no Trump fan------- he is a narcissist and says a lot of BS and lies on the podium. I would rather have Mitt Romney up there. However, anyone can see he is doing his best! But, he will never please the left because of tribalism.

If Bernie Sanders was the President I would be rooting for him and wishing him the best. I would not second guess every decision he made. Meanwhile, you are not fair or truthful. Your posts come from the perspective of a corrupted pragmatist socialist. You say whatever you need to say to drive your socialist agenda. Trump could come up with a vaccine for Corona virus tomorrow and you would say he should have done it a year ago. You condemned Trump for his inability to stop illegal Chinese illegal aliens after the block of travel from China. You went as far as to go against your views of free borders to put down Trump. That is pragmatism of the worst kind POD.


Are you done accusing me and others of stuff?

Can we get back to discussing the timeline for free testing in the USA?

From what I understand, free testing is currently only available to those who have Medicare, Medicaid, or an insurance package with no copays or deductibles.

Everyone else pays for testing, including the underinsured and the uninsured.
#15080868
MistyTiger wrote:The WMDs claim was a sham. They never found any.

The Iraq war has made the region very unstable. The rebels and the Kurds, Sunnis and Shi'ites are constantly fighting. Under Saddam, life was a bit more peaceful. Dictatorships are oppressive but Iraq should not have been a war zone.

Bush is a nice guy actually. He even has a sense of humor. But I think he was not suitable for the presidency. He had some tough decisions and followed erroneous leads that have been so costly for Americans. I am glad that a term is only 4 years.


I agree. Things were beginning to stablize a little bit once we were about to defeat ISIS but then Trump, being the idiot that he is decided to betray our Kurdish Allies who did most of the fighting and dying and basically left them in the hands of the Syrians and Russians. Trump essentially gave Russia a big strategic victory in the Middle East and Syria's Assad was happy because that means his autocratic regime gets to stay in power. All thanks to Trump just being a total idiot. Russian hacker and social media propaganda helped to get Trump elected because the Russians knew that Trump was a useful idiot that they could easily manipulate to use against the US as a weapon. The Russians have used hackers and social media to take the US presidency and weaponize it against the the US as a country and against US citizens through dividing us and helping a dangerous narcissistic person come to power to make very incompetent decisions that will cost the lives of US citizens un-necessarily.

This works to the advantage of the Russians as a strong united US is not in Russia's best interests. They want a weak and divided US. This is where a lot of people under-estimated the sort of informational, national security and financial damage that competent hackers are able to inflict on an entire country. This happened to Bulgaria as well when every last citizen had sensitive personal information compromised by hackers when they broke into the Bulgarian government's networks and systems. You can't put a price on the informational and national security costs of these hacks both to the US and to Bulgaria.
#15080913
SpecialOlympian wrote:A pandemic is not a black swan. It's a completely predictable but statistically unlikely event, like a "100 year storm/food/etc."

As daffy as you are, sometimes you have something interesting to say. That's an interesting point. Not to put too fine a point on it, but we can't prove that something like Covid-19 is going to happen. We just expect a pandemic generally speaking to occur statistically. Statistically unlikely events aren't easily predicted in terms of time. They also aren't easily predicted in terms of their nature. Coronavirus is a very different pandemic from the Black Death, for example--but not completely unlike the Spanish Influenza. Pandemics are recurring, but their nature isn't due to something else we can postulate: mutation. If they were "completely predictable" as you've suggested, we could in theory have a response to every conceivable pandemic.

Julian658 wrote:I say that humans do not have the same level of intelligence just as they do not have the same height. Is this a problematic for you?

It's problematic for a lot of people.

Pants-of-dog wrote:They seem to think that letting thousands of people die is a good response to the Coronavirus.

Why do you think that is stupid? They may have a number of thoughts that lead to such a conclusion. For example, most of those who die have a near term probability of dying anyway; and, the younger victims usually have a chronic health condition or a viral load consistent with ignoring public warnings. This is entirely consistent with "survival of the fittest," which is a rational approach to thought albeit not a very compassionate one.

Patrickov wrote:Any pro-establishment people are stupid.

I tend to disagree with that assertion. There are a lot of very smart people who are cowards. There are a lot of very smart people who are lazy. There are a lot of very smart people who are unprincipled.

Pants-of-dog wrote:The fact that a minority of Trump supporters may disagree with a certain policy does not change the fact that most of them seem unintelligent.

That may be simply your affinity for egalitarianism and your slightly right shifted IQ.

maz wrote:Apparently for the coronavirus cultists in the media, it's ok for people to fuck off and die from anything else except for the coronavirus.

You have a very good point, but it's likely to fall on deaf ears around here. People have come to expect death from the seasonal flu, because it's mostly old people ready to die anyway. Coronavirus is a more ruthless reaper. Malaria happens in the third world, and the first world doesn't care. Suicides are by ones own hand, not an unseen enemy. And so on. People rationalize away much more common causes of death. That's why I find it interesting that the left seems panicked by Coronavirus when it would solve many of their problems from consumption to over-population, to the unsustainability of the geriatric weighted welfare state's unsustainability, to global warming. Yet, suddenly these people are concerned about a solution to many of their problems.

Rancid wrote:The fact that deaths by abortion is listed indicates this is indented for a very specific audience. I think it would be better if that were not there, so that it's clearly more neutral looking. The point is still made without the abortion statistic.

Specific audience... maybe. It's also to point out that some people are only bothered by certain kinds of death--like the death of people they know and love, not people in a jungle somewhere, or some gay drug addicts. Coronavirus doesn't give anyone the comfort of moral superiority, except for hermits and the socially aloof.

Julian658 wrote:People in the left despise Trump and they will do anything they can to bring him down.

Many on the right have the same opinion. I like him, because he disrupts the system and I understand exactly how he appeals to the masses.
#15080917
blackjack21 wrote:Pandemics are recurring, but their nature isn't due to something else we can postulate: mutation. If they were "completely predictable" as you've suggested, we could in theory have a response to every conceivable pandemic.


We did and we do have responses to pandemics, the president just ignored it because he's a fucking moron who runs his administration the same way he ran all of his prior businesses.

Viruses naturally mutate through imperfect DNA copying. This doesn't radically change the virus into something that kills you instantly, but it may make it a new entity that requires a new vaccine. The predictable part is: "Once every X years we can expect a disease that will necessitate measures to protect the populace." We had SARS and Swine Flu prior to Covid.

There isn't an "every conceivable pandemic." We are talking about diseases that are pretty manageable for healthy adults but require extra intervention for the elderly and people with health complications. The problem isn't that they get sick, but that they get sick in large numbers that tax our ability to provide adequate care.

People still die with adequate care btw, but it gets harder to minimize that when large waves of people are coming in. Which is why Covid is dangerous. As best as we know at this time, you can be unsymptomatic for two weeks while you spread it to others. When 1% of you and the other people you spread it to become symptomatic in two weeks you may be part of a later wave of people who have access to less or no resources at your local hospital.

If the president had acknowledged the danger he could have spurred on the production of N95 masks and other equipment that would let our nation's healthcare workers do their jobs with a significantly lower chance of contracting Covid in the course of their duties. Now we get to see what happens when our healthcare workers are sick and either at home or infecting otherwise healthy people they care for.
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