Russia Keeps on Scoring Points Against the US Using Their Puppet Trump - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15081220
You know, even if Russian hackers didn't directly get Trump elected, their social media campaign and hacking helped to get Trump elected. That's an accurate statement. Trump is being used and manipulated so much by Putin he might as well just be a puppet of Russia. We should have never accepted any aid from Russia. And I wouldn't trust any aid from Russia at all regardless. It certainly was a big win for the Russians. With Trump in power, our old adversary, Russia just keeps scoring points and wins against us. Trump is harming our country's best interest by accepting aid from Russia and Trump is a sucker for accepting such aid from Russia.

Jennifer Hansler and Kylie Atwood of CNN wrote:
Russia sends plane full of protective gear to US

Washington (CNN)Former State Department officials were "mystified" and "bemused" by the United States' purchase of medical supplies from Russia amid the coronavirus pandemic -- a move that experts say is a propaganda win for the Kremlin.

A Russian plane with the equipment touched down in New York City on Wednesday, with an air traffic controller thanking the pilot "for all the assistance you are bringing in." The delivery came days after President Donald Trump spoke by phone with his Russian counterpart, Vladimir Putin.

'A very nice offer'
According to State Department spokesperson Morgan Ortagus, the US purchased the supplies, which included ventilators and personal protection equipment.

"Both countries have provided humanitarian assistance to each other in times of crisis in the past and will no doubt do so again in the future," she said. "This is a time to work together to overcome a common enemy that threatens the lives of all of us."

A State Department spokesperson on Thursday evening said, "The United States is purchasing the supplies and equipment outright, as with deliveries from other countries."

"We appreciate Russia selling these items to us below market value," they said.

It is unclear if the Trump administration also bought supplies from other countries below market value, and how this specific deal was established.

The spokesperson for the Russian Foreign Ministry, Maria Zakharova, said Thursday that half of the cargo was paid for by the Russian Direct Investment Fund -- a state-owned sovereign wealth investment fund -- and half by the US.

Trump, speaking from the White House Thursday, did not mention the supplies being purchased. He instead touted the delivery as "a very nice offer" and said he would be open to future aid.

"It was a very nice gesture on behalf of President Putin and I could have said 'no, thank you' or I could have said 'thank you.' And it was a large plane of very high-quality medical supplies. And I said, 'I'll take it,'" Trump said.

'Hard to understand why they are not being clear'
The decision to buy supplies from one of the US' traditional adversaries -- and the lack of transparency around that choice -- was met with confusion by a number of former officials.

"Maybe this is a case of the bureaucracy being worried and having to fill in behind a decision Trump made on his own, but not wanting to get too far into the details to avoid backlash," said one of the former officials.

The other official struggled to find any sort of justification for the Trump administration allowing Russia to be a trusted source for the goods, which are in short supply in the United States.

"It is really hard to understand why they are not being clear. It should be easy to explain," they said. "It also highlights the issues with how much aid the US is giving to other countries and how much is coming in."

Russia is subject to numerous US sanctions, including for its aggression in Ukraine and its attempts to interfere in the 2016 US election.

Former diplomat Brett McGurk described the delivery, which was touted by Moscow as a humanitarian gesture, as a "propaganda bonanza."
Graham Brookie, the Director and Managing Editor of the Atlantic Council's Digital Forensic Research Lab, told CNN that they're seeing "a huge amount of that kind of 'Russia is here to help,' that positive messaging, positive propaganda."

"The Russians will fly in as many planes as possible to create the perception that we are reliant on Russia," a third former official said. "If we keep accepting it, this makes us look weak and them look strong."
Andrew Weiss, the Vice President for Studies in the Russia and Eurasia Program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said the move played into Russia's broader foreign policy goals.

"There's this constant effort to basically say that anything the West might be concerned about is unfounded," he told CNN.

"In many respects, the Russian handling of Donald Trump has taken on aspects of trolling, where they're using Trump's attempts to turn the page to push core elements of Russia's foreign policy view, which is US policy is a joke," Weiss said. "I think it's just one more of these incidents that we've seen where the Russians outfoxed the Trump White House."


https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/politics ... index.html

I agree with Weiss's statement in that we are basically getting outfoxed by the Russians. Helping to get Trump elected was a huge victory for the Russians over the US. This is not good for our country or the rest of the world.
#15081231
Politics_Observer wrote:You know, even if Russian hackers didn't directly get Trump elected, their social media campaign and hacking helped to get Trump elected. That's an accurate statement. Trump is being used and manipulated so much by Putin he might as well just be a puppet of Russia. We should have never accepted any aid from Russia. And I wouldn't trust any aid from Russia at all regardless. It certainly was a big win for the Russians. With Trump in power, our old adversary, Russia just keeps scoring points and wins against us. Trump is harming our country's best interest by accepting aid from Russia and Trump is a sucker for accepting such aid from Russia.



https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/politics ... index.html

I agree with Weiss's statement in that we are basically getting outfoxed by the Russians. Helping to get Trump elected was a huge victory for the Russians over the US. This is not good for our country or the rest of the world.


Several times I have talked to you about how this narrative is bullshit, that if anything President Trump is more antithetical to Russian interests than previous administrations, and it all just is for naught. The very same people in the Elites that you distrust? They're the ones that need people to have a ''Boogeyman'' out there to justify the drive for World Hegemony and constant artificially engineered conflict-so the fat cats get rich. Why can't you see that? Or is it that you just won't, that you refuse to?
#15081256
@annatar1914

You and I don't agree here. Putin is making the US look like a fool and that is the cold hard facts. Russia under Putin is not our friends. Trump whether intentionally or not is acting as Russia's puppet to the detriment and harm of US national interests.

I don't understand why you can't see that or the reality of the situation. You just need to admit that you made a mistake in voting for Trump and own your mistakes. The sooner you do that, the sooner you stop looking like a fool and a sucker.

Everybody makes mistakes. Nobody is perfect. You got to open your eyes man. Admitting you made a mistake is a sign of strength, not weakness. You gotta wake up out of that denial you are in. Russia is not our friend and this is just a ploy.

Remember, facts matter and right now those facts might not have caught up with you yet, but eventually they will and reality is going to slap you in the face just like this pandemic is now slapping Trump, his supporters and those Republican governors in the face after a long time of spreading lies, telling everybody there is nothing to worry about, COVID will just "magically" disappear, having COVID parties like there was nothing to worry about (and then catching the COVID virus for doing so) and offering false comfort to the American people. Don't let Putin's false comfort fool you. He's trolling us and making fun of us and the joke is on us.
Last edited by Politics_Observer on 03 Apr 2020 07:41, edited 5 times in total.
#15081258
"The Russians will fly in as many planes as possible to create the perception that we are reliant on Russia," a third former official said. "If we keep accepting it, this makes us look weak and them look strong."
Andrew Weiss, the Vice President for Studies in the Russia and Eurasia Program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said the move played into Russia's broader foreign policy goals.


Honestly people should stop worrying about this shit. Dictators have been doing that for like forever. Acting benevolent towards the world while treating their own people like shit.
#15081273
Politics_Observer wrote:You and I don't agree here. Putin is making the US look like a fool and that is the cold hard facts. Russia under Putin is not our friends.


I think he has a conflicting stance.

He might have declared himself as pro-Russian, but he thinks Trump, whose side he's effectively on (because he criticises anti-Trumpers harshly), is anti-Russia. He has also accused pro-Trump people (e.g. Member Hindsite) as anti-Russian before.

I will say in effect he is treating Russia like an enemy, not friend.

----

Meanwhile, I have said before, If anti-Trumper's accusation is true, I will say Putin does not even need to enable a friend of him taking power. He only needs to put someone stupid in power, even if the said stupid people see Putin himself (or Russia under him) as a sworn enemy.

In other words, in anti-Trumpers' eyes, Trump can still be a Russian puppet even if 100% of what he does is anti-Russia, because he is stupid, and so what he has done in effect enhanced Russia's status. Even if he himself, his supporters and opponents all hate Russia more in the process, it simply does not matter. Right?
#15081348
Politics_Observer wrote:@annatar1914

You and I don't agree here. Putin is making the US look like a fool and that is the cold hard facts. Russia under Putin is not our friends. Trump whether intentionally or not is acting as Russia's puppet to the detriment and harm of US national interests.

I don't understand why you can't see that or the reality of the situation. You just need to admit that you made a mistake in voting for Trump and own your mistakes. The sooner you do that, the sooner you stop looking like a fool and a sucker.

Everybody makes mistakes. Nobody is perfect. You got to open your eyes man. Admitting you made a mistake is a sign of strength, not weakness. You gotta wake up out of that denial you are in. Russia is not our friend and this is just a ploy.

Remember, facts matter and right now those facts might not have caught up with you yet, but eventually they will and reality is going to slap you in the face just like this pandemic is now slapping Trump, his supporters and those Republican governors in the face after a long time of spreading lies, telling everybody there is nothing to worry about, COVID will just "magically" disappear, having COVID parties like there was nothing to worry about (and then catching the COVID virus for doing so) and offering false comfort to the American people. Don't let Putin's false comfort fool you. He's trolling us and making fun of us and the joke is on us.


One thing you don't understand is that I didn't vote for Trump, or Hillary Clinton, I didn't vote in 2016 at all. I can't bear to vote for the ''lesser evil'', I hardly can bear to vote at all.

The other thing you don't understand is that you are simply wrong about Russia and the Russian government, I have seen what i've seen, what I have personally observed makes what many believe in the United States to be a sad and pathetic delusion. Far from being enemies, Russia has always had a leadership no matter what that was allied to the United States when it counted. Even during the height of the Cold War and Soviet Communism, nothing got so bad that we couldn't talk, couldn't communicate and work things out (and by the way, President Putin's administration is the most Anti-Communist and Pro-Capitalist Russian government possible). This present era in American and Western life is insane, and many of us are accepting things that previous generations and future generations would and will consider absurd and wicked. It's a matter of perception, and your perception is being subject to an attempt to manage it. Of course looking at the state of things now, you're likely not to believe me, trust me on this. After all, I'm just an anonymous person on the internet, right?

Time is a great tester of things, if we're patient enough we all will see the truth of things. We'll get through all this, I could never be a total pessimist about life, it's simply too precious to me.

So step back a little I'm asking you, from all the fire and fury pouring out of the internet and media these days, and consider your position in a new light. Imagine a couple of your primary political premises to be incorrect, make a mental thought experiment as if that were so, and follow it through to it's conclusions. I do this all the time, possibly a bit too much, in order to grow and adapt and be flexible when taking in new information as it comes in. It's the only way you can objectively look at the bigger picture.

Anyway, I'm not patronizing you, just asking you to consider possibilities.
#15081355
@annatar1914 do you speak Russian?

I could show you some interesting youtube channels that completely expose puting and his goverment
now Im not saying Putin should be replaced becasue Russia just like Israel dont have any alternatives for Putin
but Putin is far from being the strong and caring leader as he present himself his first priority is the top 0.1%
its sorta like mafia
#15081367
I am inclined to suspect that , especially as someone whom seeks , and enjoys , the support of the Russian Orthodox Church https://www.christiantoday.com/article/how-the-russian-orthodox-church-is-backing-vladimir-putins-new-world-order/81108.htm , , Putin is following the biblical approach of killing the enemy with kindness . https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+6%3A27-36&version=NIV , https://redeeminggod.com/heap-burning-coals-on-your-enemies/
So I feel that the United States should " trust but verify".
#15081368
Zionist Nationalist wrote:@annatar1914 do you speak Russian?

I could show you some interesting youtube channels that completely expose puting and his goverment
now Im not saying Putin should be replaced becasue Russia just like Israel dont have any alternatives for Putin
but Putin is far from being the strong and caring leader as he present himself his first priority is the top 0.1%
its sorta like mafia


Ya govoryu nemnogo Russkii. Not much just enough for small talk, which most Russians don't do right away anyway. Most I see speak English to me, and enjoy the opportunity to try out the English they learn in school.

I am well aware of the internal domestic situation, but like you say, alternatives haven't developed yet. I think Putin is a genuine Russian Patriot in his heart, but what needs to happen (as with anywhere else) is an broad collective inner development in people's hearts, in the cultural, moral, and spiritual spheres. Russia took to Capitalism in the same manner Communism was imposed, and you simply can't go back and reset to 1917 or 1991.

I love the Russian land and people, it's culture and history, and my heritage. I love the Orthodox Christian faith which I have adopted that is the foundation of this land and people. It's by no means perfect, oh my poor Russia! But her great and good people still have much to contribute to the order and peace in the world.
#15081560
Politics_Observer wrote:You know, even if Russian hackers didn't directly get Trump elected, their social media campaign and hacking helped to get Trump elected. That's an accurate statement. Trump is being used and manipulated so much by Putin he might as well just be a puppet of Russia. We should have never accepted any aid from Russia. And I wouldn't trust any aid from Russia at all regardless. It certainly was a big win for the Russians. With Trump in power, our old adversary, Russia just keeps scoring points and wins against us. Trump is harming our country's best interest by accepting aid from Russia and Trump is a sucker for accepting such aid from Russia.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/politics ... index.html

I agree with Weiss's statement in that we are basically getting outfoxed by the Russians. Helping to get Trump elected was a huge victory for the Russians over the US. This is not good for our country or the rest of the world.

I agree with annatar1914 that to claim President Trump is a puppet of Russia is bullshit.
#15081657
Politics_Observer wrote:I don't understand why you can't see that or the reality of the situation. You just need to admit that you made a mistake in voting for Trump and own your mistakes. The sooner you do that, the sooner you stop looking like a fool and a sucker.

The reality of the situation is that the Clintons bagged millions of dollars from Russians into their Clinton Foundation, which the Clintons used to buy influence in Washington. It didn't stop there. The entire Steele Dossier was financed by Hillary Clinton. So were other dirty tricks like coordinating a meeting between Donald Trump Jr. and Natalya Veselnitskya. Adam Schiff himself was punked by Russian comedians who pretended they had "Kompromat" on Trump. Trying to use Russia as a canard against Trump was a huge strategic mistake for the Democrats.

Trump won because of his positions on illegal immigration and trade. A few ads on Facebook by some Russian trolls had nothing to do with it. Michael Bloomberg just outspent them in the Democratic party by about $599M dollars and he came up snake eyes.

That said, I don't view voting for Trump as a mistake precisely because I don't think Russia is a powerful adversary anymore. China and domestic globalists are a bigger threat to the average American than any Russian could hope to be. The Russians are playing their hand well, mostly because George W. Bush and Barack Obama fucked up in leaving US forces overstretched in the Middle East. That was also done purposefully, as they were working toward a more lean military which General Shinseki was leading back in the 1990s, and even he came to criticize this situation later.

Politics_Observer wrote:Admitting you made a mistake is a sign of strength, not weakness.

When you have been beaten by a non-politician who took out 16 Republican contenders and Hillary Clinton, isn't it time for your side to admit that you made a mistake? Isn't it time to admit that tolerating illegal immigration and outsourcing to drive down the wages of America's working class is a failed political strategy? Isn't it time to admit that embracing bewildering issues like transgenderism, green new deals, and health care for illegal aliens at taxpayer's expense is a colossal mistake that makes it easy for someone with no prior experience in elective office to compete effectively against establishment politicians in spite of phony polling and torrents of propaganda against him? Again, isn't it time to admit that it is your side who has miscalculated horribly?

Politics_Observer wrote:You gotta wake up out of that denial you are in. Russia is not our friend and this is just a ploy.

Russia's national income has just been cut by 40%. They are not in a strong economic position at this point.

The reason we are in the situation we're in--not just the US, but Europe too--is because of China. There is simply no way to blame it on Russia. Even accepting some masks for first responders from Russia isn't a big deal. How many has China sent to us? China actively denied assistance from the US and Europe early in the crisis when it could have made a difference.
#15081689
The reality of the situation is that the Clintons bagged millions of dollars from Russians into their Clinton Foundation, which the Clintons used to buy influence in Washington.


Hey, some Russian Oligarchs decided to help themselves by helping some American Oligarchs, the Clintons. It's how Washington works, it's how the world works.



It didn't stop there. The entire Steele Dossier was financed by Hillary Clinton.


And what a retarded mess of innuendoes and BS that was.



So were other dirty tricks like coordinating a meeting between Donald Trump Jr. and Natalya Veselnitskya.


Who had a mutual client with the head of Fusion GPS, Glenn Simpson, in Denis Katsyv....



Adam Schiff himself was punked by Russian comedians who pretended they had "Kompromat" on Trump.


Couldn't get away with that in America, could you? The ''Joke'' being that everyone in Russia knows all that was stupid and untrue, and worthy only of laughter at such inane stupidity.




Trying to use Russia as a canard against Trump was a huge strategic mistake for the Democrats.


It also served as cover for Trump to make anti-Russian actions in Eastern Europe and the Middle East, in my opinion.

Trump won because of his positions on illegal immigration and trade. A few ads on Facebook by some Russian trolls had nothing to do with it. Michael Bloomberg just outspent them in the Democratic party by about $599M dollars and he came up snake eyes.


He also won because Hillary Clinton is universally despised even by Liberals, being a truly loathsome and corrupt human being, God help her.

That said, I don't view voting for Trump as a mistake precisely because I don't think Russia is a powerful adversary anymore.


More appropriately, Russia has no desire to be an adversary and under President Putin has scaled back world ambitions to purely National interests, because Russia no longer has a political ideology for export or support. Putin was close to the Bushes at one time.


China and domestic globalists are a bigger threat to the average American than any Russian could hope to be. The Russians are playing their hand well, mostly because George W. Bush and Barack Obama fucked up in leaving US forces overstretched in the Middle East. That was also done purposefully, as they were working toward a more lean military which General Shinseki was leading back in the 1990s, and even he came to criticize this situation later.


And Russia even cordially warned the United States during that time that America was engaged in a self-destructive Imperial overreach. Russia historically knows about the perils of superpower overreach.


When you have been beaten by a non-politician who took out 16 Republican contenders and Hillary Clinton, isn't it time for your side to admit that you made a mistake? Isn't it time to admit that tolerating illegal immigration and outsourcing to drive down the wages of America's working class is a failed political strategy? Isn't it time to admit that embracing bewildering issues like transgenderism, green new deals, and health care for illegal aliens at taxpayer's expense is a colossal mistake that makes it easy for someone with no prior experience in elective office to compete effectively against establishment politicians in spite of phony polling and torrents of propaganda against him? Again, isn't it time to admit that it is your side who has miscalculated horribly?


Not to mention the social morality concerns of conservatives-few could honestly deny our ''culture'' has become a cesspool of degenerate vice and soul-killing garbage... Drugs, immorality, etc.. And there's a perception that the Democratic party is all on board with that, because they are.


Russia's national income has just been cut by 40%. They are not in a strong economic position at this point.


They'll be alright. Autarky has it's good points.

The reason we are in the situation we're in--not just the US, but Europe too--is because of China. There is simply no way to blame it on Russia. Even accepting some masks for first responders from Russia isn't a big deal. How many has China sent to us? China actively denied assistance from the US and Europe early in the crisis when it could have made a difference.


I can't jump on the Anti-China bandwagon, because the American Establishment made them the world's factory for goods and services, and they saw an opportunity to uplift their country which they have been doing quite well at.
#15081826
annatar1914 wrote:Hey, some Russian Oligarchs decided to help themselves by helping some American Oligarchs, the Clintons. It's how Washington works, it's how the world works.

(Patrickov's note: intermediate paragraphs not quoted because they do not relate to what I am going to say)

I can't jump on the Anti-China bandwagon, because the American Establishment made them the world's factory for goods and services, and they saw an opportunity to uplift their country which they have been doing quite well at.



I somehow find it strange that so many American PoFo members seem to pick between Russia and China to hate, while loving the other or at least having a soft spot. Most of pro-Russian members seem to hate China, while those pro-China people are at least indifferent to Russia. To me, both countries try to manipulate the United States' stance one way or another, and both are threats that need to be defeated.

From what I observe, anti-Trumpers tend to be the more anti-Russian, while pro-Trumpers seem to be more anti-China. I am somewhat of the latter category but I see Russia and China similarly and that it is not a good thing for either of them to win (at least not now).

Anti-Trumpers have plenty reasons to condemn Trump as destroyer of Western democracy and trust between nations, as well as (unintentional or even intentional) killer of all those Americans having perished in this epidemic. However, ultimately his rise is just a phenomenon representing some (admittedly not majority, but still large enough to make a difference) Americans' reactions towards their establishment / liberal's (here I mean both the Democratic / Republican establishment, as well as those who rally around Obama and / or Sanders) failure (or in some situations, unwillingness) to contain the threats from both Russia and China.

For example, many probably see the Ukraine and Syria incidents as failures against Russia. For China's case, well, possibly the South China Sea and the rise of hawkish pro-China faction Hong Kong in the early 2010s.

Liberals and progressives simply need to learn that there are always malicious people out there, and it is not useful to speak softly without reminding them about the big stick, or worse, not using the big stick effectively. (Arguably Trump misused his big stick in the assassination of Soleimani, but I also see some anti-government Chinese inspired from the event in that this can be a warning to abusive Chinese officials)

It is ironic that it takes a madman (Trump) to expose the bigger madmen (Putin and Xi Jinping). However, looking at history it might not be so ironic -- it was Stalin who stomped Hitler, neither of whom actually better than the other.
#15081830
@Patrickov

I don't know, I feel like I have more in common with people from China or Taiwan for example than people from Russia. Both are very capitalistic societies even though China is communist in name only. I also respect ancient Chinese wisdom and culture. China doesn't seem as confrontational as Russia and normally if their is a conflict between the US and China, for the most part we sort of kinda start it. Even though China has engaged in technology theft which I don't approve of, we kinda sorta started the trade war between the two countries by retaliating in an unwise and perhaps out of proportion way. That's somewhat our own fault.

So, we could have responded to Chinese technology thefts more effectively and more in proportion while not starting a trade war that would damage our own and the global economy. Plus both China and the US profit from each other and yet we don't profit much by doing business with Russia because it just doesn't seem to be as profitable a market.

On the other hand Russia likes post videos of nuking Florida and buzz our ships and reconnaissance planes. Not to mention hack our elections. It's one thing to hack our corporations like China does, but to hack our elections and directly threaten our republic crosses a red line for me and I have yet to see us respond, mainly because Trump acts like a stooge and puppet of Russia rather than a legitimate patriotic American with balls.

Some Americans want our government to hack China in retaliation but I am more tempted to have our government hack Russia in retaliation. However, I would also have to consider if that would be a good idea given we might have much more vulnerable IT infrastructure than Russia and could end up on the short end of the stick in a cyber-war against Russia. I would perhaps prefer to find an area where we are strong in and Russia is weak in that does not involve direct military conflict with Russia and nothing to do with cyber-warfare to retaliate against Russia.

That way if they retaliate again using cyber attack we can strike back once again in this Russian weak spot that does not involve the use of cyber-warfare doing just as much damage or maybe more damage than what Russia does to us with cyber attacks. But I feel we must have a serious retaliation that does not involve direct military conflict or direct military attacks against Russia for interfering in our 2016 election. Trump has failed to do that because he has a very sensitive ego and Putin uses that to his advantage to manipulate Trump. Given that is the case, this will only encourage Russia to interfere again in our elections given there is no deterrence.
#15081860
Politics_Observer wrote:I don't know, I feel like I have more in common with people from China or Taiwan for example than people from Russia. Both are very capitalistic societies even though China is communist in name only. I also respect ancient Chinese wisdom and culture. China doesn't seem as confrontational as Russia and normally if their is a conflict between the US and China, for the most part we sort of kinda start it. Even though China has engaged in technology theft which I don't approve of, we kinda sorta started the trade war between the two countries by retaliating in an unwise and perhaps out of proportion way. That's somewhat our own fault.

So, we could have responded to Chinese technology thefts more effectively and more in proportion while not starting a trade war that would damage our own and the global economy. Plus both China and the US profit from each other and yet we don't profit much by doing business with Russia because it just doesn't seem to be as profitable a market.

On the other hand Russia likes post videos of nuking Florida and buzz our ships and reconnaissance planes. Not to mention hack our elections. It's one thing to hack our corporations like China does, but to hack our elections and directly threaten our republic crosses a red line for me and I have yet to see us respond, mainly because Trump acts like a stooge and puppet of Russia rather than a legitimate patriotic American with balls.

Some Americans want our government to hack China in retaliation but I am more tempted to have our government hack Russia in retaliation. However, I would also have to consider if that would be a good idea given we might have much more vulnerable IT infrastructure than Russia and could end up on the short end of the stick in a cyber-war against Russia. I would perhaps prefer to find an area where we are strong in and Russia is weak in that does not involve direct military conflict with Russia and nothing to do with cyber-warfare to retaliate against Russia.

That way if they retaliate again using cyber attack we can strike back once again in this Russian weak spot that does not involve the use of cyber-warfare doing just as much damage or maybe more damage than what Russia does to us with cyber attacks. But I feel we must have a serious retaliation that does not involve direct military conflict or direct military attacks against Russia for interfering in our 2016 election. Trump has failed to do that because he has a very sensitive ego and Putin uses that to his advantage to manipulate Trump. Given that is the case, this will only encourage Russia to interfere again in our elections given there is no deterrence.



I won't dispute the Russia part. As I said, I see Russia and China both bad, and effectively they are on the same side. For example, in UN resolutions. This is regardless of the many times China trying to feign neutrality by abstaining (in fact China still acts like a Russian puppet there in some sense)

I personally find the "both China and the US profit from each other" thing debatable as well. Materially this is 100% true, but there are people on both sides finding such benefit not without price. Some Americans feel their jobs (and more importantly, opportunities) leaking away, while some Chinese (as well as Hongkongers / Taiwanese) find the Chinese government more and more arrogant and oppressive. The Trade War is initiated by the sentiment of the former, while in effect addressed some problems as the latter see.

I know some Hongkongers / Taiwanese who welcome the Trade War as an opportunity to rebuild an economy and society without influence from authoritarian / totalitarian regimes, and accept that they (we) are going to suffer considerable lowering of living standards in the process, but the end will justify the means. In fact, this lowering of standards is the very thing that is happening, compounded with the panic / deceit (e.g. British Government asking HSBC not to pay announced dividends, evaporating lifetime investment of many Hongkongers) caused by the COVID-19 epidemic.

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