" Trump Has Sabotaged America’s Coronavirus Response" - Page 71 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15081501
So, in answer to the thread’s thesis that Trump sabotaged America’s response, the question must be posed as to why should Trump be singled out for criticism when it is clear most governments have failed and an alternative US administration would be likely no different.


That is not the point at all. The point is that Trump continues to sabotage American's response. WE STILL DO NOT:

Have reliable and plentiful test kits.

Government control of critical assets.

A need based distribution plan.

Enough factories making sufficient PPE for our health care workers not to mention the people.

Professionals in charge of the response. (Kuschner is in charge of what?)

Travel restrictions within the US.

The military has still not been told where to send their excess respirators or ventilators.

Deployment of the USPHS.

In other words, Trump is personally responsible for all of these failures and more and he continues to fuck up.

Why is it hard to admit this. Trump has fucked this up from day one and we all know it. I could not care less what is being done in Bosnia. I live here in the US. Trump is responsible. And he is failing. And it would take me about five minutes to make a list for him to follow that would save tens of thousands of lives. This is why I refer to Trump supporters as unintelligent. Acting against one's own self interest is not "politics". It is foolishness.
#15081506
Trump has it easy. All he has to do is look at Tawian's playbook.

Taiwan Has Been Shut Out of Global Health Discussions. Its Participation Could Have Saved Lives
https://time.com/5805629/coronavirus-taiwan/

How Taiwan and Singapore managed to contain COVID-19, while letting normal life go on
https://nationalpost.com/health/how-tai ... life-go-on

Instead, Trump rambles on about how popular he is on Facebook. :knife:
Last edited by Godstud on 04 Apr 2020 02:42, edited 1 time in total.
#15081508
^One of my favorite stories form this is that Pompeo couldn't reach some simple agreement with other diplomats becuase he insisted their joint statement refer to it as the "Ching Chong Chinamen Kung Flu."

Drlee wrote:Why is it hard to admit this. Trump has fucked this up from day one and we all know it. I could not care less what is being done in Bosnia. I live here in the US. Trump is responsible. And he is failing. And it would take me about five minutes to make a list for him to follow that would save tens of thousands of lives. This is why I refer to Trump supporters as unintelligent. Acting against one's own self interest is not "politics". It is foolishness.


Me, shouting over a team of orderlies breaking every single bone in my grandmother's chest as they try to keep her breathing because I threatened to sue the hospital if they let the libs use her death for their sick agenda: You got owned, lib. Just admit it. America is great again.
#15081510
It is important to note that the USA had its first COVID case on the same day that South Korea did.

Fox News even interviewed a doctor...

Fox News host asks a doctor about the government’s coronavirus response — some say his answer might have cost him a return appearance
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/fox-n ... 2020-04-02
Last edited by Godstud on 04 Apr 2020 02:56, edited 1 time in total.
#15081511
Stormsmith wrote:I think what's at the core is the abysmal way he's handled this entire affair.


Sure, but relatively speaking, the US response has been "mid tier", which I agree is unacceptable. However, it is not bottom of the barrel either.

My point still stands. The expectation is that a country as rich as the US should be at the top of the list of countries handling it the best, and it's not. That's the core of the outcry.
Last edited by Rancid on 04 Apr 2020 03:09, edited 3 times in total.
#15081514
Drlee wrote:Why is it hard to admit this. Trump has fucked this up from day one and we all know it. I could not care less what is being done in Bosnia. I live here in the US. Trump is responsible. And he is failing. And it would take me about five minutes to make a list for him to follow that would save tens of thousands of lives. This is why I refer to Trump supporters as unintelligent. Acting against one's own self interest is not "politics". It is foolishness.

Because none of your nonsense is true. The left-wing media wants President Trump to follow the advice of the medical experts. That is what he has been doing. He even shut down the economy of our nation, against his instincts, because of the advice of the medical experts. The medical experts are responsible, especially Dr. Anthony Fauci. What you write is the foolishness.

NIH Expert Fauci: Coronavirus 'No Worry' for Americans
Sunday, 26 January 2020

"It isn't something the American public needs to worry about or be frightened about, because we have ways of preparing and screening of people coming in [from China]," National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) Director Anthony Fauci told "The Cats Roundtable" on 970 AM-N.Y., per The Hill.

"And we have ways of responding – like we did with this one case in Seattle, Washington, who had traveled to China and brought back the infection."

There are thus far only two cases in the U.S. among the 1,320 confirmed worldwide, according to The World Health Organization (WHO) Saturday, The Hill reported.

"It's a very, very low risk to the United States, but it's something that we as public health officials need to take very seriously," Fauci added to host John Catsimatidis, per The Hill.
https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/virus ... id/951325/

Top disease official: Risk of coronavirus in USA is 'minuscule'; skip mask and wash hands
USA TODAY Feb. 19, 2020

Fauci doesn't want people to worry about coronavirus, the danger of which is "just minuscule." But he does want them to take precautions against the "influenza outbreak, which is having its second wave."

"We have more kids dying of flu this year at this time than in the last decade or more," he said. "At the same time people are worrying about going to a Chinese restaurant. The threat is (we have) a pretty bad influenza season, particularly dangerous for our children."

Fauci offered advice for people who want to protect against the "real and present danger" of seasonal flu, which also would protect against the hypothetical danger of coronavirus.

"Wash your hands as frequently as you can. Stay away from crowded places where people are coughing and sneezing. If in fact you are coughing and sneezing, cover your mouth," he says.

"You know, all the things that we say each year."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/hea ... 787209002/

Fauci predicts up to 200,000 U.S. deaths as Trump weighs adjusting coronavirus guidelines. Here is what you should know.
USA TODAY Mar. 30, 2020

As President Donald Trump weighs whether to ease social distancing guidelines intended to slow the spread of coronavirus one of his top health advisers predicted Sunday as many as 200,000 Americans could die from the disease.

Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, projected millions of Americans will contract COVID-19 and between 100,000 and 200,000 people could succumb to it. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's worst-case-scenario earlier estimated at least 200,000 could die from the virus this year.

Public health officials reiterated the grim estimates Sunday as the Trump administration weighed whether to extend its 15-day guidance to slow the spread the virus. Trump has said he wants to lift recommendations that Americans work from home and avoid discretionary shopping, but also said he would consider input from health experts.

"Looking at what we're seeing now, I would say between 100,000 and 200,000" deaths, Fauci told CNN’s "State of the Union." "We're going to have millions of cases."

At midday Sunday, the U.S. had recorded about 125,000 coronavirus cases, according to Johns Hopkins University, though the true number is likely much higher. The university had tallied 2,201 deaths, with by far the highest share in New York City.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention projected a worst-case scenario of 160 million to 210 million cases by December. Under that forecast, 21 million people would need hospitalization and 200,000 to 1.7 million could die by the end of the year. Health officials have cautioned that the models of infection rate vary widely.

Fauci, who described the estimates as a “moving target,” was among several members of the Trump administration coronavirus effort appearing on Sunday political shows. Whatever the numbers, the experts agreed that the virus continues to pose a major threat, including to states and cities that have not yet had a heavy caseload.

"No state, no metro area will be spared," Deborah Birx, the White House coronavirus response coordinator, told NBC's "Meet the Press." "We are asking every single governor and every single mayor to prepare like New York is preparing now."

It's not yet clear how those warnings square with Trump's desire to "reopen" the nation and restart the economy. Trump has said he hopes many Americans could go back to work by Easter, potentially beginning in some of the least hard-hit parts of the country. But Trump has not said specifically how he came up with that date or why he feels it is realistic.


Another outstanding question is how much of an impact lifting or adjusting the federal guidelines would have. The more stringent and enforceable restrictions have been imposed by state officials in New York, California and elsewhere. An easing of federal guidelines might influence governors in those states, but it wouldn't require a response.

Estimates are based on extrapolation of data, in other words drawing conclusions about what has happened in other areas and applying those to the nation. The predictions depend on the continuation of existing factors, such as rates of transmission, said Ogbonnaya Omenka, an assistant professor and public health specialist at Butler University's College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences.

"But those conditions are liable to change, so you cannot say with utmost certainty that things would unfold as predicted," Omenka told USA TODAY.

Fauci's numbers are "within reason," Omenka said, because a recent survey result applied to the entire U.S. population would put the expected number of cases nationwide at about 8 million. Still, because of shortfalls in testing, the real number of cases is likely to be much higher than current reports show, Omenka said.

Trump has repeatedly said he would listen to public health officials before deciding whether to extend or alter the federal guidelines. Fauci indicated that the president did just that over the weekend, backing down from an initial plan to impose a quarantine in New York and other especially hard-hit states in the Northeast.

The president told reporters on Saturday that he was considering a weekslong quarantine for New York and parts of New Jersey and Connecticut. Public health officials are concerned that nonsymptomatic residents of those states may be spreading the virus to other areas as they travel around the country.

But after the idea drew criticism from state officials, including New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, Trump instead announced a "strong" travel advisory.

"The original proposal was to consider seriously an enforceable quarantine," Fauci told CNN. "After discussions with the president, we made it clear, and he agreed, that it would be much better to do what's called a strong advisory."

Omenka said that the state and federal government must be careful about causing a second wave of infection by reopening public spaces too soon. Public health officials and the president, he said, should be guided by whether rates of transmission slow.

"The peak has to start coming down before we can start to confidently revise strategies," Omenka said. "Just because a jurisdiction overcomes the outbreak does not mean they are entirely safe."

That advice appeared to align with a report Sunday from the American Enterprise Institute written by Scott Gottlieb, former head of the Food and Drug Administration.

The report suggested strict social guidelines remain in place until a state reports a "sustained reduction in cases" for at least two weeks "to guard against the risk that large outbreaks or epidemic spread could reignite once we lift our initial efforts."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 935804001/
Last edited by Hindsite on 04 Apr 2020 03:52, edited 2 times in total.
#15081516
Rancid wrote::hmm:

I agree that everything else you said is valid.


We have socialism for the rich in America.

Also the GOP is hesitant to send Americans who have been asked to stay at home a measly $1,200, becuase if the American people figure out that money is meaningless and can be willed into existence they will no longer go to their shitty jobs that they hate and live in fear of losing and begin to question why shit sucks so hard for them.
#15081518
Godstud wrote:Trump has it easy. All he has to do is look at Tawian's playbook.

Taiwan Has Been Shut Out of Global Health Discussions. Its Participation Could Have Saved Lives
https://time.com/5805629/coronavirus-taiwan/

How Taiwan and Singapore managed to contain COVID-19, while letting normal life go on
https://nationalpost.com/health/how-tai ... life-go-on

Instead, Trump rambles on about how popular he is on Facebook. :knife:


It seems Sweden is trying this approach. As I said above I traveled in mid january and majority of Asians I saw in the airport had masks. My wife thought they were anal, but in retrospect they have been close to the epicenter of these viruses and are therefore sensitized. We knew there was a virus in China, but did not think twice about it.

This approach works well with people that are able to follow the rules. POD called me a racist for saying this. BTW, the Germans fall in this category also. America is way too diverse, numerous, and ignorant to follow the rules like that. The governor of Puerto Rico ordered strict forced quarantine for the entire island after ONE case of Corona in an Italian tourist. However, she had already been sensitized by the problems in Italy.
#15081519
SpecialOlympian wrote:We have socialism for the rich in America.

Also the GOP is hesitant to send Americans who have been asked to stay at home a measly $1,200, becuase if the American people figure out that money is meaningless and can be willed into existence they will no longer go to their shitty jobs that they hate and live in fear of losing and begin to question why shit sucks so hard for them.

Misery loves company. Those that are down on their luck always blame others. I know this does not apply to everybody, but you constantly preach victimhood and that is like a poison.
#15081522
Drlee wrote:That is not the point at all. The point is that Trump continues to sabotage American's response. WE STILL DO NOT:


Says the Doctor who was willing to close the borders, enforce quarantine on a national level, close all schools and businesses in early January 2020. The doctor that wanted to start building ventilators and masks when there was one Corona patient in the entire USA------ diagnosed on January 20. In retrospect your plan looks beautiful I agree. I seriously doubt anyone would have implemented that. This is not a Trump defense, this is just giving you a dose of real life.

Have reliable and plentiful test kits.

That is past history.

Government control of critical assets.

Nope, each state is best suited to take care of the situation with the help of Washington DC.

A need based distribution plan.


Every governor wants more and more. Cuomo has not yet run out of ventilators.

Enough factories making sufficient PPE for our health care workers not to mention the people.

America is a capitalist nation. The manufacture of masks is best done overseas because in that manner they are dirt cheap. That is how capitalism works. Nevertheless, some are made here and they are working 24/7. The demand for the masks is massive. Once a healthcare provider walks into the ICU to take care of a patient the mask and gown are contaminated. On a 12 hour shift a worker may go through 20 plus masks and gowns.

Professionals in charge of the response. (Kuschner is in charge of what?)


I agree!
Travel restrictions within the US.

I agree, but it may be difficult to enforce. When Trump hinted at limiting travel in and out of New York Cuomo protested very vigorously.

The military has still not been told where to send their excess respirators or ventilators.


I don't have knowledge of that. However, in the state of New York most rural and small city hospitals are not that busy and have many available ventilators. Couomo wants them ASAP. That is a better solution than asking for more from DC when the storage facility is depleted.

Deployment of the USPHS.


They are always deployed.
#15081529
@Julian658 They are always deployed.


No they are not. :roll: A few minor teams. And don't even think about arguing with me about this, I worked for them for years. You son, do not even know how the USPHS works.

None of what you said made any sense. You are really out of your depth.

Do you know what would be refreshing? For someone here to just listen objectively to the experts about what ought to be done and give them their due. I mean really. You do 25 years of schooling only to have some wet behind the ears know-it-all lecture you about something they know nothing about.

We are likely going to lose way over 100,000 people. We should all be screaming for blood. But no. It has come home to me that most people will never confront it. They will know someone who died but what the hell. Their future employment will likely be seriously in jeopardy. Oh well, you know, lib'rals.

Monumentally stupid people, making monumentally stupid decisions about a problem that at its core any decent major general could manage and take weekends off. It is a murderous comedy. Unintelligent people. Gotta be that. Because it it is not they are a pile of psychopaths.

And you know what is sad? I had to look after some pathetic idiot with a MAGA hat on the other day. Risk my life for someone who is to stupid to understand that it was the guy in the MAGA hat that put his life at risk in the first place.

And Julian says he is not a Trump supporter all the while defending him with outrageously stupid ideas and excuses. Own it sport. Or admit that he is and has been fucking up by the numbers.

President Trump. Please put an Army infantry general in charge. Not some pentagon fool but a real infantry division commander. Give him your authority and get the fuck out of the way. Go play golf.
#15081544
Julian658 wrote:IThis approach works well with people that are able to follow the rules. POD called me a racist for saying this. BTW, the Germans fall in this category also. America is way too diverse, numerous, and ignorant to follow the rules like that. The governor of Puerto Rico ordered strict forced quarantine for the entire island after ONE case of Corona in an Italian tourist. However, she had already been sensitized by the problems in Italy.



Canada is just as diverse, with British Columbia home to many Asian-Canadians.

Here's what happened

1. On January 30, 2020, the World Health Organization declares the outbreak of COVID-19 a public health event of international concern.
2. On January 25, 2020, Canada confirms its first case of COVID-19 related to travel in Wuhan, China.
3. On January 22, 2020, Canada implements screening requirements related to COVID-19 for travellers returning from China to major airports in Montréal, Toronto and Vancouver.
4. On January 20, America confirms its first case of COVID-19 related to travel in Wuhan, China.
5. On January 15, 2020, the Public Health Agency of Canada activates the Emergency Operation Centre to support Canada's response to COVID-19.On January 7, 2020, China confirmed COVID-19.

As you can see the first American and Canadian were determined at virtually the same time.

So, this vast and diverse country of mine was prepared for coronavirus in advance, thanks to WHO test kits etc.

And here are the results of all 13 territories and provinces and the 50 US states:

CANADA: 12,531 cases; 187 deaths
U.S. of A: 277,491 cases; 7146 deaths

For easy figuring we generally allow there's 10 times more Americans than Canadians so your death rate is 7146 compared to 1870 for us. If you had prepared, you'd be better off.
#15081547
Pants-of-dog wrote:This does not seem like a logical comparison of Sanders and Sweden. It seems more like a negative generalisation about social democrats based on assumptions that conservatives have about them.



I accept your point that not all social democrats would think quite the same way. But Bernie and Swedish politicians are awfully similar in their mind set.



I do not think most developed countries have failed to the level that the USA has.

And the policies championed by Sanders are better for a viral outbreak. For example, public healthcare would make testing and treatment free for the patient. This would then get rid of the financial incentive to not get tested and treated. This would make it easier to track and treat the virus.



I think you also have a point here. Had Bernie, or any other social democrat, or even a mildly left leaning politician, had the chance to establish a public health system, then that would have greatly enhanced the speed with which US health care could respond. The need to stop and argue about who pays for it slows policy response when time is critical. It also completely undermines public confidence and spreads uncertainty and fear when people believe they will get no health care if the virus infects them.


But I can’t see how Trump could have changed that. I mean, realistically. For reasons best known to themselves, Americans have been incapable of getting public health sorted out for generations. It seems everything that is wrong and bad from the last 4 or 5 decades now gets blamed on Trump. Seems like he is used as a convenient scape goat for the establishment, if you ask me.


You could use examples like failing to use his position to force the establishment to accept that tests will be free. I mean, [email protected]#k me! How could they not make tests free? And a less subsidise treatment. It is free in my country. Or compensate employers and employees effectively rather than just throw money at Wall Street.

So there might be some things he could have done or not done. But does he really have enough power to override the establishment? Obama couldn’t rein in Wall Street. He couldn’t reform the health industry either.

The problem with American’s response goes much deeper than Trump.
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