[Drlee]

Obama care markedly increased the premiums of those that could afford to buy health insurance. It was not pleasant.

Source?

Before you take to google be prepared to discuss comparable coverage including limits, preexisting conditions and exclusions.

Pro Hint. Don't try. This thread is about CV.

[Finfinder]

[quote="late"]It wasn't popular until people got to see it. When Republicans tried to kill it, those same people went ballistic, and a lot of Republicans went into hiding. Mine is still hiding.

You even consider having an honest dialogue?

Sorry, silly question.[/quote]

We can have an honest dialogue when you stop projecting and lying and make a defense. Obamacare was not popular with the majority of Americans. Stop gaslighting.

[late]

We can have an honest dialogue when you stop projecting and lying and make a defense. Obamacare was not popular with the majority of Americans.

"The popularity of Obamacare is at an all-time high. In fact, it appears to have become more popular since Barack Obama left office... Some 55% of Americans support the ACA"

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-affordable-care-act-is-more-popular-now-than-when-obama-was-president-2020-02-24

But there is a difference between numbers and passion. Republicans stopped going to town hall events because they got tired of being hollered and sworn at by their constituents. Like I said, Sue has been hiding ever since.

You follow the news. You know this.

Which means you should say what you said in front of a bathroom mirror.

Loudly.

[Julian658]

Source?

Before you take to google be prepared to discuss comparable coverage including limits, preexisting conditions and exclusions.

Pro Hint. Don't try. This thread is about CV.

You are barking at the wrong tree. I am for UHC, not Obama Care.

Anecdotally members of my family that were self employed got hit with higher premiums. Those that had insurance paid by the employer had no issues. For many the rise in premiums was modest. As I said I favor UHC as it is much less expensive. I also favor removing health insurance companies out of the loop. I prefer a model where the provider of care also provides the insurance. No need for a middle man.

[Stormsmith]

@Julian658

Forgive me, but you are but 1 voter. Health care is the US's number 1 issue. And Dr Lee is right: once people got to see it, they knew how good it is. They sleep better knowing if they are illl, they will get care and they won't lose their home. Personally, I prefer universal health care, but if Biden's elected, and updates ObamaCare fine. Your debt is enormous and there's climate change too.

On cost of healthcare, this will take a while to sort, but over time your country will get there. Just don't elect Moscow Mitch.

[Julian658]

@Julian658

Forgive me, but you are but 1 voter. Health care is the US's number 1 issue. And Dr Lee is right: once people got to see it, they knew how good it is. They sleep better knowing if they are illl, they will get care and they won't lose their home. Personally, I prefer universal health care, but if Biden's elected, and updates ObamaCare fine. Your debt is enormous and there's climate change too.

On cost of healthcare, this will take a while to sort, but over time your country will get there. Just don't elect Moscow Mitch.

For the love of God I am for universal health care (UHC). What else do you want for me? I am a centrist that recognizes that sometimes the left has a good idea. Obama Care is band Ptolemaic clumsy approach to the problem.

[Julian658]

Trump is pushing Hydroxychloroquine 24/7. He did it again just now! Does he have friends among the people that sell this drug? That was my first impression. CNN is all over this saying that Trump is fool and may harm people with Hydroxychloroquine. However, I think it is worthwhile a try. Here is a recent paper out of France:

Clinical and microbiological effect of a combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin in 80 COVID-19 patients with at least a six-day follow up: an observational study

Auteur : Philippe Gautret and Al.

Corresponding author: Didier Raoult

ABSTRACT
We need an effective treatment to cure COVID-19 patients and to decrease the virus carriage duration. In 80 in-patients receiving a combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin we noted a clinical improvement in all but one 86 year-old patient who died, and one 74 yearold patient still in intensive care unit. A rapid fall of nasopharyngeal viral load tested by qPCR was noted, with 83% negative at Day7, and 93% at Day8. Virus cultures from patient respiratory samples were negative in 97.5% patients at Day5. This allowed patients to rapidly de discharge from highly contagious wards with a mean length of stay of five days. We believe other teams should urgently evaluate this cost-effective therapeutic strategy, to both avoid the spread of the disease and treat patients as soon as possible before severe respiratory irreversible complications take hold.

https://www.groupedeveillecovid.fr/blog ... nal-study/

Perhaps this is why they are pushing this drug. The preliminary data looks promising, however, as Fauci would say this is not a strict large scale matched double blind study.

[Godstud]

@Julian658 The biggest flaw that Trump has is this. Trump reacts to things, and is actually a big procrastinator. He doesn't really look into things until it's an emergency, and then he does so with little thought or fore-thought of what the impact will be. He also doesn't try to get information about the problem and thinks he can bluster his way thru, like he's done with his businesses, in the past.

This is tied to his narcissism, wherein he's as concerned about his Facebook numbers moreso than the Americans he's supposed to be leading and ensuring have protection from a pandemic.

Him trying to order businesses to stop selling PPE to other countries is more of this reactionary stuff I just mentioned. He's not thinking of the future, or how this will affect trade with allies, now and even after the pandemic.

Trump is responsible for the economy. As Truman said: "The buck stops here.". Everybody know this is fact, even if Trump does not. His leadership directly affects the economy, and America, thru the pandemic.

So far, he's shown a distinct LACK of leadership and the economy has reacted to this, very negatively. He could turn this around if he got some really, really, ridiculously good speech writers and could stick to the script. He'd need to stop Tweeting narcissistic nonsense and become a President in both word and deed.

I do not think Trump is capable of this.

Trump is pushing Hydroxychloroquine 24/7. He did it again just now! Does he have friends among the people that sell this drug? That was my first impression. CNN is all over this saying that Trump is fool and may harm people with Hydroxychloroquine. However, I think it is worthwhile a try. Here is a recent paper out of France:

Did you mean this study?

No Evidence of Rapid Antiviral Clearance or Clinical Benefit with the Combination of Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin in Patients with Severe COVID-19 Infection
In summary, despite a reported antiviral activity of chloroquine against COVID-19 in vitro, we
found no evidence of a strong antiviral activity or clinical benefit of the combination of
hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin for the treatment of our hospitalized patients with
severe COVID-19. Ongoing randomized clinical trials with hydroxychloroquine should provide
a definitive answer regarding the alleged efficacy of this combination and will assess its safety.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... via%3Dihub

[Drlee]

Refute this Drlee ?? 95% of the deaths in the world could have been prevented if China used urgency and was more honest and forth coming about this virus instead of the massive cover up they are participating in.

Who cares? Is believing this going to save my life, your life or anyone else's life? Nope. Right now it is completely irrelevant to the task at hand. Tell you what. Ask me in a couple of years if I am still around. Or I will ask you if you are still around.

Tell me this Drlee when it is all said and done do you think what you call all the stupid people in the world and the US in particular, the stupid redneck hicks are going to side with your mantra that Trump has blood on his hands or the common sense that the Chinese blindsided everyone with this?

There is no doubt in my mind that Trump will continue to blame the Chinese for his failures and that a great many of his idiot followers will believe him.

This is uncharted waters we are doing the best we can yes and learning as we go.

No it is not. It is quite a common occurrence. All that is different is the virulence of this particular bug. All of the means and methods needed to curb this outbreak and/or mitigate its disaster have been known for a century.

How can you say "we are doing the best we can" when we still lack for stuff we should have had a month ago? We still have a dozen republican state governors who are leading their states to ruin and death with virtual inaction on the part of Trump? Trump is quick to tweet his slightest disagreement with a democrat but now, when his experts are telling him that these governors are condemning perhaps 100K people or more to death, all we get from the supposed leader of the country and the titular leader of the republican party is silence. All Trump has to do to save thousands of lives is tweet that he believes these governors should act now. Or better, issue a presidential declaration and tie federal aid to proper mitigation efforts on the part of the states. There is just so much that has been bungled and continues to be mishandled that it is surprising that the entire nation is not up in arms.

The polls don't agree with your assesment Drlee.

I don't believe the polls. The had Hillary by a landslide. Besides. There is an old saying: "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in great numbers."

[Julian658]

@Julian658 The biggest flaw that Trump has is this. Trump reacts to things, and is actually a big procrastinator. He doesn't really look into things until it's an emergency, and then he does so with little thought or fore-thought of what the impact will be. He also doesn't try to get information about the problem and thinks he can bluster his way thru, like he's done with his businesses, in the past.

This is tied to his narcissism, wherein he's as concerned about his Facebook numbers moreso than the Americans he's supposed to be leading and ensuring have protection from a pandemic.

Him trying to order businesses to stop selling PPE to other countries is more of this reactionary stuff I just mentioned. He's not thinking of the future, or how this will affect trade with allies, now and even after the pandemic.

Trump is responsible for the economy. As Truman said: "The buck stops here.". Everybody know this is fact, even if Trump does not. His leadership directly affects the economy, and America, thru the pandemic.

So far, he's shown a distinct LACK of leadership and the economy has reacted to this, very negatively. He could turn this around if he got some really, really, ridiculously good speech writers and could stick to the script. He'd need to stop Tweeting narcissistic nonsense and become a President in both word and deed.

I do not think Trump is capable of this.

We can all agree, Trump is suboptimal. You keep preaching to the choir.

Did you mean this study?

No Evidence of Rapid Antiviral Clearance or Clinical Benefit with the Combination of Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin in Patients with Severe COVID-19 Infection
In summary, despite a reported antiviral activity of chloroquine against COVID-19 in vitro, we
found no evidence of a strong antiviral activity or clinical benefit of the combination of
hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin for the treatment of our hospitalized patients with
severe COVID-19. Ongoing randomized clinical trials with hydroxychloroquine should provide
a definitive answer regarding the alleged efficacy of this combination and will assess its safety.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... via%3Dihub

As I said, there needs to be a proper double blind matched study. The paper you quote only looked at 11 patients that already had advanced disease . 8 out of 11 had comorbidities and were already requiring oxygen. The other paper looked at 80 patients in the early stages before the lungs were compromised. The studies are not comparable at all. It is quite possible that the drug is only useful in the very early stages before the patient becomes severely ill.

Good post God!

[Godstud]

@Julian658 I wish, as much as the next person, for a successful treatment, and eventual vaccine, against COVID-19. We can't have people self-medicating based on anecdotal evidence, or we do get Darwin Award Winners from using fish-tank chemicals on themselves.

Even 80 patients seems a bit of a small sampling, for a study.

[QatzelOk]

It appears that a few right-wing leaders were asked to "delay repressive measures" and that they were asked to "pretend not to find the pandemic serious" so that left-wing wags and other "well-meaning" town criers would all insist on being locked in their houses and having their rights of assembly taken from them.

"Now! Why are you delaying this! Lock us up now!"

To save lives, of course.

If so, then Trump played right along with the WHO's desired coronovirus "response" from the public.

[Rancid]

fish-tank chemicals on themselves.

[Finfinder]

Who cares? Is believing this going to save my life, your life or anyone else's life? Nope. Right now it is completely irrelevant to the task at hand. Tell you what. Ask me in a couple of years if I am still around. Or I will ask you if you are still around.



There is no doubt in my mind that Trump will continue to blame the Chinese for his failures and that a great many of his idiot followers will believe him.



No it is not. It is quite a common occurrence. All that is different is the virulence of this particular bug. All of the means and methods needed to curb this outbreak and/or mitigate its disaster have been known for a century.

How can you say "we are doing the best we can" when we still lack for stuff we should have had a month ago? We still have a dozen republican state governors who are leading their states to ruin and death with virtual inaction on the part of Trump? Trump is quick to tweet his slightest disagreement with a democrat but now, when his experts are telling him that these governors are condemning perhaps 100K people or more to death, all we get from the supposed leader of the country and the titular leader of the republican party is silence. All Trump has to do to save thousands of lives is tweet that he believes these governors should act now. Or better, issue a presidential declaration and tie federal aid to proper mitigation efforts on the part of the states. There is just so much that has been bungled and continues to be mishandled that it is surprising that the entire nation is not up in arms.

No we haven't been in this situation in a generation, don't make shit up for the dramatics. I never heard of people ordered to stay in there homes before.

And so much [mod edit] partisan finger pointing. I guess there are a lot of stupid people that buy your shtick that Republicans are killing people. You are going to need more than that to get your boy Biden elected.

You cut the part of my post (actually cut most of my post out) out about Ny City. Its just not worth discussing this [mod edit: rule 2 infraction - Prosthetic Conscience], Keep trying to sell your crap maybe people will buy it although I doubt it your not very often correct about your predictions.

[blackjack21]

Or better, issue a presidential declaration and tie federal aid to proper mitigation efforts on the part of the states.

This... after he was impeached and tried (pointlessly) during the outbreak of this pandemic for "abuse of power." It's amazing how fast he's gone from being a horrible person for wanting to be a dictator to being a horrible person for not being enough of a dictator.

As I said, there needs to be a proper double blind matched study.

There are two main purposes for these things: first, to ensure that drugs sold into the market are safe; second, to ensure that they are effective. We know that hydroxychloroquine is safe, with some known side effects that may make it unsuitable for people with certain conditions. We know it has been used effectively for treatment of malaria, lupus and rheumatism. We don't have statistical evidence that it is effective against SARS induced by coronavirus. We do have anecdotal evidence that it is effective. However, we are in an emergency situation. So we can waive consumer protection against doctors administering drugs that haven't been proven effective for a particular remedy given patients aren't price gouged, and providers abide by the ethics of informed consent, administering a patient request with risk disclosure, or a patient being deemed terminal.

We can't have people self-medicating based on anecdotal evidence, or we do get Darwin Award Winners from using fish-tank chemicals on themselves.

Over-the-counter tonic water has quinine and may have a mild prophylactic effect. You'd have to drink quite a lot of it to get a therapeutic dose. It's no longer effective against malaria as the virus has mutated. It wouldn't surprise me if it has some beneficial effect against coronavirus. I would definitely avoid fish tank cleaner.

I never heard of people ordered to stay in there homes before.

People who live near refineries or chemical plants get these orders when the plants have to off gas or if there is an explosion or something.

[Drlee]

No we haven't been in this situation in a generation, don't make shit up for the dramatics. I never heard of people ordered to stay in there homes before.

Nonsense. I remember quarantines when I was a kid.

The fact that you have not heard something before does not mean it did not happen.

0-15-1918

For the purpose of preventing a severe epidemic of Spanish Influenza in the City of Cleveland, the following health regulations are hereby promulgated to continue in force and effect until further notice;-

All places of public congregation including churches, theatres, moving picture houses, dance halls, lodge rooms, assembly rooms, public halls, pool rooms, bowling alleys, cabarets, and all other places used for general meetings whether public or private are hereby closed.
Public, parochial, and private schools, including night schools, also public libraries and art museums will close beginning midnight, Tuesday, October 15th, 1918.
If there is an increase in the number of cases of Spanish Influenza in the city of Cleveland it will be necessary to issue additional restrictions covering all places where persons congregate. In order to avoid necessity for further restrictions to prevent the spread of this disease, it will be imperative for those operating stores, factories, and shops to prevent patrons and employees from loitering or congregating in groups.
All public funerals and weddings are prohibited.
Under instructions from the State Department of Health, special caution is hereby given to persons operating restaurants, saloons, and cafes that loitering in these places must be strictly prohibited.
The crowding of all elevators and all public conveyances must be avoided to the greatest possible degree. During the prevalence of epidemic influenza all street cars, factories, offices, dining rooms, and other rooms or places which must be occupied should be given the greatest amount of ventilation possible.
Special permission of the Commissioner of Health must be obtained for all open air meetings.

Signed Dr. Harry Rockwood

ACTING COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH.

In 1918 many cities issued stay at home orders and the closing of schools and businesses was even more common.

And so much dishonesty and partisan finger pointing. I guess there are a lot of stupid people that buy your shtick that Republicans are killing people. You are going to need bigger lies than that to get your boy Biden elected.

@Finfinder You sure have learned the Trump tactics well. When you are caught behaving badly you simply blame the other party. I seem to remember a great many republicans alibiing Trumps various misadventures but calling them tricks that the democrats pay. Well FF, elections have consequences and the republican leaders of many states and the president are dropping the ball. You would have us believe that complaining about the unnecessary deaths of tens of thousands of people is about getting Biden elected. Your attitude is despicable. You should ask an adult with some moral fiber why this is.

How many people should quietly die just to keep Trump in office? IT looks like you think it should be north of 100K. Shame on you.

[Julian658]

Nonsense. I remember quarantines when I was a kid.

The fact that you have not heard something before does not mean it did not happen.



In 1918 many cities issued stay at home orders and the closing of schools and businesses was even more common.



@Finfinder You sure have learned the Trump tactics well. When you are caught behaving badly you simply blame the other party. I seem to remember a great many republicans alibiing Trumps various misadventures but calling them tricks that the democrats pay. Well FF, elections have consequences and the republican leaders of many states and the president are dropping the ball. You would have us believe that complaining about the unnecessary deaths of tens of thousands of people is about getting Biden elected. Your attitude is despicable. You should ask an adult with some moral fiber why this is.

How many people should quietly die just to keep Trump in office? IT looks like you think it should be north of 100K. Shame on you.

The Dems are rooting for more than 100K deaths and massive economic turmoil. If less than 100K die and the economy recovers the Dems are toast. I will say I could live with Joe Bien as president, I actually like the guy even though he is a gaff machine. I suspect he would be a figurehead president and one would hope he is not surrounded by a bunch of SJWs and people obsessed with race gender ID politics.

[Godstud]

@Julian658 Nobody is rooting for death. I thought you were smarter than that.

Please provide a source for your idiotic claim. I want real quotes and not bullshit.

[SpecialOlympian]

:roll: Julian658Nobody is rooting for death. I thought you were smarter than that.

Yes, people are. Rightwing media is actively telling people to go out and get sick.

[Finfinder]

Nonsense. I remember quarantines when I was a kid.

The fact that you have not heard something before does not mean it did not happen.



In 1918 many cities issued stay at home orders and the closing of schools and businesses was even more common.



@Finfinder You sure have learned the Trump tactics well. When you are caught behaving badly you simply blame the other party. I seem to remember a great many republicans alibiing Trumps various misadventures but calling them tricks that the democrats pay. Well FF, elections have consequences and the republican leaders of many states and the president are dropping the ball. You would have us believe that complaining about the unnecessary deaths of tens of thousands of people is about getting Biden elected. Your attitude is despicable. You should ask an adult with some moral fiber why this is.

How many people should quietly die just to keep Trump in office? IT looks like you think it should be north of 100K. Shame on you.

Spare me your fake moral outrage you’re the one posting all over this place trying to take advantage of a crisis. Notice no blame for the liberals just partisan hackery on your part. I can’t take Immature and dishonest arguments like that seriously. Talk about pathetic bringing up something that happened 100 years ago as relevant to today is an absolute joke. You should be ashamed of yourself rooting for people to die and taking China’s side.