Does Coronavirus Illustrate the Dangers of Voting for Socialists? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15082217
Imagine an alternative reality in which instead of Boris winning the last election with a landslide, it was Momentum and their Dear Leader Corbyn who have won instead... Then just a little while later this once in a century pandemic happens and instead of a nice jovial human being at the helm telling us we have to stay indoors we have a bitter and twisted ideologist like Corbyn who hates british people ordering us all under house arrest..

The country would go nuts.

Is it not the case that the very possibility that an emergency situation like a World War or a pandemic can just come out of nowhere without any forewarning mean it is never safe to vote for socialists?
#15082218
SolarCross wrote:
Is it not the case that the very possibility that an emergency situation like a World War or a pandemic can just come out of nowhere without any forewarning mean it is never safe to vote for socialists?



Because cuts to NHS help in a pandemic...

I know you divorced reality, but perhaps it's time to consider marriage counseling.
#15082219
late wrote:Because cuts to NHS help in a pandemic...

What cuts?

Anyway that is not really the point I am making. The UK is a free country because it is populated by free people. A free people have to be lead by someone who is credibly in favour of freedom in order to choose to comply abnormal restrictions on freedom of movement and association. A lot of people are flouting the lockdown as it is. If Corbyn was in charge there would be a total break down.
Last edited by SolarCross on 06 Apr 2020 16:49, edited 1 time in total.
#15082228
@late

Anyway that is not really the point I am making. The UK is a free country because it is populated by free people. A free people have to be lead by someone who is credibly in favour of freedom in order to choose to comply with abnormal restrictions on freedom of movement and association required by the emergency situation. A lot of people are flouting the lockdown as it is. If Corbyn was in charge there would be a total break down.
#15082233
SolarCross wrote:
Anyway that is not really the point I am making. The UK is a free country because it is populated by free people. A free people have to be lead by someone who is credibly in favour of freedom in order to choose to comply with abnormal restrictions on freedom of movement and association required by the emergency situation. A lot of people are flouting the lockdown as it is. If Corbyn was in charge there would be a total break down.



Naw, it would just be a slightly different flavor of bad. Part of the baggage of being a Brit, I'm afraid.

If it makes you feel any better, we're even worse.
#15082236
late wrote:Naw, it would just be a slightly different flavor of bad. Part of the baggage of being a Brit, I'm afraid.

If it makes you feel any better, we're even worse.

Well you don't have literal marxists running for the highest office. I am not a fan of Kooky Killary Klinton but at least she was not one of them.
#15082348
@skinster I respect your choice to live under socialism and wish you all the best in your new life in Venezuala or Cuba. I am not even criticising socialists in themselves in this thread. Just I am wondering how we can keep voting for them here in this country given that under some emergency condition we might actually have one in government when it happens. At any other time we can just ignore them until it is time to vote again and we can be rid of them. I guess what I am thinking is we need a new opposition party. A century ago that was the Liberal Party but then the better part of them were absorbed into the Tory Party and Labour stepped up to be the new opposition. They were alright at it too, mostly. Nowadays they are an absolute shambles though and no one can respect or trust them. The Lib Dems are no better since Brexit has shown that they are a bunch of traitors. The Tories are alright but for how long without an effective opposition to keep them honest? At least they will get lazy.
#15082354
skinster wrote:What are you rambling about? Labour is a rightwing party again.

If you are talking about Sir Starmer The Guardian likes him. Maybe insufferable prigs are a different kind of left than you are into but I don't count them as right wing. Each to their own though.

skinster wrote:Back to what socialist countries do vs what capitalist countries do during a global pandemic.

The US is being pretty shameful, I give you that.
#15082357
SolarCross wrote:If you are talking about Sir Starmer The Guardian likes him. Maybe insufferable prigs are a different kind of left than you are into but I don't count them as right wing. Each to their own though.


The Guardian is rightwing too. Like the right of Labour who stuck the knife in leftwing Corbyn's back for the last 4/5 years and got to write in The Guardian and elsewhere attacking Labour's left. Starmer was amongst them. He just won the Labour leadership and today purged the left within the party so that the right - Blairites - are once again at the front bench and top jobs.

The U.K. has two rightwing parties again. Stop whining.
#15082359
skinster wrote:The Guardian is rightwing too. Like the right of Labour who stuck the knife in leftwing Corbyn's back for the last 4/5 years and got to write in The Guardian and elsewhere attacking Labour's left. Starmer was amongst them. He just won the Labour leadership and today purged the left within the party so that the right - Blairites - are once again at the front bench and top jobs.

The U.K. has two rightwing parties again. Stop whining.

I suppose that depends on how you define left and right. I'd probably like flat-cap whippet-keeping pidgeon-fancying pint-of-best "socialists" over pretentious priggish Guardian readers though. Well corbyn was not that kind of socialist either. Why can't we have actual working class people in charge of the Labour Party? Now that would be a radical idea, no?
#15082364
Why has no one in Vietnam died from Coronavirus?
As the U.S. government’s incompetence is put on full display by the COVID-19 crisis, many are rightfully looking to other countries around the world for an alternative to the disastrous profit-first approach of the Trump administration. The Socialist Republic of Vietnam has stood out as one such example of how to effectively respond to the pandemic. Vietnam, which shares a border with China and is about 1,200 miles from where the outbreak was first reported in Wuhan, has overcome steep odds in the global fight against COVID-19. As of April 6, the Vietnamese government has reported 245 confirmed cases with 95 recoveries and no fatalities.

The country’s response to the outbreak has received international recognition, including from the World Health Organization and World Economic Forum, for its comprehensive, low-cost model of disease prevention. WHO representative in Vietnam, Dr. Ki Dong Park, attests the government “has always been proactive and prepared for necessary actions.”

The Communist Party of Vietnam has strengthened its anti-pandemic measures by implementing nationwide social distancing rules, such as banning outside gatherings of more than two people while keeping a distance of 6.5 feet, and temporary shutdowns of “non-essential” businesses, including restaurants, entertainment centers and tourist sites.

Supermarkets and other essential services remain open, but are instructed to safeguard customers’ health by checking their temperatures before entering the building and providing them with hand sanitizers. In addition, the government has warned against panic buying and has taken action against businesses engaged in price gouging. To ensure social security for affected workers, Vietnam has approved a 111.55 million dollar financial support package that includes covering all costs for workers in quarantine or are recovering from the disease.

Unlike the U.S. capitalist class and the Trump administration, the Vietnamese government took early measures to combat the current coronavirus epidemic. Officials began preparing strategies to combat the outbreak immediately after the first cases emerged in China.

On February 1st, Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc signed Decision No.173.QD-TTG, categorizing the virus as a Class A contagious disease “that can transmit very rapidly and spread widely with high mortality rates.” This declaration of a national emergency came after the sixth case of coronavirus in the country was reported. In contrast, the Trump administration only declared a national emergency over the global pandemic on March 13, when there were at least 1,920 confirmed cases across 46 states.

And while the Trump administration has yet to replace the U.S. Pandemic Response Team after its top officials were withdrawn in 2018, the Vietnamese government has organized a Steering Committee for COVID-19 Prevention and Control to accelerate responses to the pandemic. Official guidelines for COVID19 treatment have been circulated throughout the country. The Vietnamese Ministry of Information and Communications and Ministry of Health has gone as far as creating an app for users to report their personal health status and disseminate further information. The Prime Minister has also met with the Ho Chi Minh Communist Youth Union, urging millions of young people to do their part and help their country.

To save the nation
Vietnam is densely populated and its people face high risks of exposure to deadly pathogens. This requires a competent public health system that can rapidly respond to emerging challenges and quickly disseminate information. Updates on zoonotic diseases are reported on a regular basis — defined as urgent, daily, weekly, monthly, or yearly. Because Vietnam’s health system centers the safety and health of its people — not the profits of insurance companies — Vietnam has seen impressive success in disease prevention and management. For instance, in 2003 the WHO declared Vietnam as the first country to successfully contain SARS.

From the era of the Vietnamese Resistance War against colonialism, to SARS and COVID-19, Vietnam has a history of success fighting against deadly diseases. This cooperative spirit among its people arises from a social system that emphasizes collective effort and unity of purpose. When it comes to fighting COVID-19, Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc urged “every business, every citizen, every residential area must be a fortress to prevent the epidemic.” This rhetoric has stoked a sense of cooperation among the Vietnamese people, who are no strangers to what unity means during times of hardship.

Contrary to popular rhetoric by western media, Vietnam’s success so far is not simply a miracle. It is the result of a heavily planned economy with a socialist government that puts people over profits. The COVID-19 pandemic has ripped open the weak seams of capitalism and laid bare its callousness in the face of human suffering. In a world where capitalism is a morbid plague, Vietnam proves that there is another way.

In this unprecedented time, we must embrace international cooperation and solidarity more than ever and stand together with the Vietnamese people and the rest of the world. We should learn from the successes of the Vietnamese people and battle against all forms of anti-Asian racism. We must continue to demand a health care system that puts people’s needs over corporate interests. We must demand a People’s Program to fight the virus and capitalism!
https://www.liberationnews.org/why-has- ... ronavirus/


SolarCross wrote:I suppose that depends on how you define left and right.


It's not how I define it, it is what is.

Why can't we have actual working class people in charge of the Labour Party?


:lol:
#15082412
I think the pandemic is a show for better or worse that in a crisis the govorned become more govornable, which is telling. How much of what we think is bad really worth the effort? Are our worries just purely a case of the luxury of throught? Telling how climate change only happened after the cold war. How did JC ever get anywhere close to a seat in parliment seems better suited to writing communist bummer stickers.
#15082452
SolarCross wrote:Imagine an alternative reality in which instead of Boris winning the last election with a landslide, it was Momentum and their Dear Leader Corbyn who have won instead... Then just a little while later this once in a century pandemic happens and instead of a nice jovial human being at the helm telling us we have to stay indoors we have a bitter and twisted ideologist like Corbyn who hates british people ordering us all under house arrest..

The country would go nuts.

Is it not the case that the very possibility that an emergency situation like a World War or a pandemic can just come out of nowhere without any forewarning mean it is never safe to vote for socialists?


If the braindead public is more likely to go along with orwellian social control if there's a conservative in power then I'm voting for the socialist from now on.

I really resent that my fate is tied to the tard herd. I wish a real virus would come along and save me from mass stupid.
#15082460
Sivad wrote:If the braindead public is more likely to go along with orwellian social control if there's a conservative in power then I'm voting for the socialist from now on.

I really resent that my fate is tied to the tard herd. I wish a real virus would come along and save me from mass stupid.

Is that Orwellian? No one is being censored, no one is being tortured into saying untrue things. We are supposed to wash our hands and stay indoors for a few weeks, so far not so bad.
#15082473
SolarCross wrote:Is that Orwellian? No one is being censored, no one is being tortured into saying untrue things. We are supposed to wash our hands and stay indoors for a few weeks, so far not so bad.


Have you watched that Bill Gates interview where he openly discusses digital travel certificates? That's gonna do away with both informed consent and freedom of movement. Right now 2/3 of the US is in favor of interstate travel restrictions. The mayor of LA just told everyone to snitch out their neighbors, he said "snitches get rewards". They even got Karen drones flying around harassing people. Right of assembly has basically been abolished, and that curtails speech and religious freedom as well. And coronavirus is being used as a pretext to violate the 2nd amendment in city after city. If you're not worried then you're just not paying attention.

Why do you think people like Donna and PoD fucking love this so much? They see it as a big opportunity to flulag the world and control everything. Whenever you see all the little aspiring totalitarians drooling over a crisis it's time to start rowing in the opposite direction.
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