Presumed Coronavirus Cases? - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

All general discussion about politics that doesn't belong in any of the other forums.

Moderator: PoFo Political Circus Mods

#15082875
Donna wrote::lol:


All you can do is emoji because you know that everything I say is backed up by the top experts. On climate change it's Lindzen, Curry, Spencer, Salby, and dozens of others. On vaccines it's Gerberding, Stefano, Healey, the IOM, and dozens of others. Name any issue and I'll give you a 20 page thread full of expert opinions that back my position.
#15082878
XogGyux wrote:Yes. Don't just say you can quote them, go ahead, find the papers and post them here for us to examine.


I already have in multiple threads. Ioannidis, Ferguson, Bhakdi, etc etc etc. I got top academics from all the relevant fields, I got top officials from public health departments around the world, I got pathologists and epidemiologists and virologists, I got so many experts I can't remember even half of them.
#15082879
Sivad wrote:All you can do is emoji because you know that everything I say is backed up by the top experts. On climate change it's Lindzen, Curry, Spencer, Salby, and dozens of others. On vaccines it's Gerberding, Stefano, Healey, the IOM, and dozens of others. Name any issue and I'll give you a 20 page thread full of expert opinions that back my position.


Image
#15082881
good comeback, Donna.
#15082882
Sivad wrote:I already have in multiple threads. Ioannidis, Ferguson, Bhakdi, etc etc etc. I got top academics from all the relevant fields, I got top officials from public health departments around the world, I got pathologists and epidemiologists and virologists, I got so many experts I can't remember even half of them.

I don't read all the non-sense you write, in fact I do my best to avoid it. If you don't have it I'd assume is more of the nonsense claims. cheers.
#15082884
XogGyux wrote:I don't read all the non-sense


Yeah, you just mindlessly parrot whatever the establishment says. I don't mindlessly accept and regurgitate the official line, I approach every issue with doubt and rigorous skepticism like any rational person should. You don't have an informed, intelligent position, you have a dogmatic acceptance of whatever the prevailing orthodoxy happens to be.
#15082886
If you haven't fully absorbed the minority report on an issue then you don't have anything intelligent to say about that issue.
#15082887
Sivad wrote:Yeah, you just mindlessly parrot whatever the establishment says. I don't mindlessly accept and regurgitate the official line, I approach every issue with doubt and rigorous skepticism like any rational person should. You don't have an informed, intelligent position, you have a dogmatic acceptance of whatever the prevailing orthodoxy happens to be.

Delusions, conspiracy theories. You should get some help.
#15082888
He needs to be heavily medicated.
#15082889
XogGyux wrote:You should get some help.


You shouldn't bother, your problem is that one thing that we all know you just can't fix. ;)
#15082890
Donna wrote:He needs to be heavily medicated.


I heavily self-medicate. You kind of have to when you're living through a fuck.tard apocalypse.
#15082894
XogGyux wrote:Yes. Don't just say you can quote them, go ahead, find the papers and post them here for us to examine.
I know superman, he is my Palestinian Have my word for it. :lol:


Here are two of the top ones in the US.

Covid-19 — Navigating the Uncharted

In their Journal article, Li and colleagues3 provide a detailed clinical and epidemiologic description of the first 425 cases reported in the epicenter of the outbreak: the city of Wuhan in Hubei province, China. Although this information is critical in informing the appropriate response to this outbreak, as the authors point out, the study faces the limitation associated with reporting in real time the evolution of an emerging pathogen in its earliest stages. Nonetheless, a degree of clarity is emerging from this report. The median age of the patients was 59 years, with higher morbidity and mortality among the elderly and among those with coexisting conditions (similar to the situation with influenza); 56% of the patients were male. Of note, there were no cases in children younger than 15 years of age. Either children are less likely to become infected, which would have important epidemiologic implications, or their symptoms were so mild that their infection escaped detection, which has implications for the size of the denominator of total community infections.

On the basis of a case definition requiring a diagnosis of pneumonia, the currently reported case fatality rate is approximately 2%.4 In another article in the Journal, Guan et al.5 report mortality of 1.4% among 1099 patients with laboratory-confirmed Covid-19; these patients had a wide spectrum of disease severity. If one assumes that the number of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times as high as the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%. This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968) rather than a disease similar to SARS or MERS, which have had case fatality rates of 9 to 10% and 36%, respectively.2


Ex-Obama health advisor: US needs to ‘stop panicking and being hysterical’ about coronavirus

Americans are too worried about the new coronavirus that’s spreading rapidly across China, former White House health advisor Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel told CNBC on Thursday

“Everyone in America should take a very big breath, slow down, and stop panicking and being hysterical,” said Emanuel, who served during Barack Obama’s presidency. “We are having a little too much histrionics on this.”

Alex Azar, current secretary of Health and Human Services under President Donald Trump, also said later Thursday on CNBC that the risk to Americans remains low.

“I’m actually pretty confident that we’re going to restrict the spread in the United States and people should remember not to panic,” said Emanuel, vice provost for global initiatives at the University of Pennsylvania. “We need to be a little sober about it, even in China.”

The Wuhan virus, which causes flu-like symptoms, is not spreading through human-to-human contact in America, Dr. Nancy Messonnier, director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, said Monday.

“I think we need to put it into context, the death rate is much lower than for SARS,” Emanuel said.
#15082902
maz wrote:Your hypothetical situation is not analogous because you are referring to physical trauma in relation to disease. In the CDC is referring to any number diseases and underlying medical conditions inrelation to the disease the coronavirus.

Who is to say what someone died from what disease when they had any numerous diseases? I think the point is that the doctors can just arbitrarily count anyone who dies from anything as a Covid-19 death if they happened to have any coronavirus at the time of death.

Image


That's some seriously deformed reasoning. If you have diabetes, assuming reasonable care, you're likely to live many years. People who get C-19 and die in a few days, aren't dying from diabetes - that's a ridiculous assertion. And btw, all a pathologist has to really do is look at an Xray of the lungs and note the massive scarring that come from the virus. That sure as hell ain't caused by diabetes.

This all comes from the right wing hatred of public health and their decades of propaganda how evil govt is.
#15082903
quetzalcoatl wrote:That's some seriously deformed reasoning. If you have diabetes, assuming reasonable care, you're likely to live many years. People who get C-19 and die in a few days, aren't dying from diabetes - that's a ridiculous assertion. And btw, all a pathologist has to really do is look at an Xray of the lungs and note the massive scarring that come from the virus. That sure as hell ain't caused by diabetes.

This all comes from the right wing hatred of public health and their decades of propaganda how evil govt is.


This.
#15082904
maz wrote:Here are two of the top ones in the US.

Covid-19 — Navigating the Uncharted



Ex-Obama health advisor: US needs to ‘stop panicking and being hysterical’ about coronavirus


I am all in favor of people familiarizing themselves with science and knowledge but just grabbing an article and quoting what you think supports your point is misleading at best. The first thing to note is the name of the article "Navigating the uncharted" which is a stark reminder that this is something new and that the information provided should be taken with caution. The bit that you just cherry picked is when they talk about the mortality rate. The mortality rate is just one of many "statistics" that we can use to understand what's going on, it is certainly not the only important one. For instance, if the virus has a mortality rate of only 0.1%, but it is so virulent that most people get infected within a short period of time, this could lead to hundreds of thousands of people dying within a relatively short period of time. There are many things that clearly have a much higher mortality rate than COVID, however, they do not propagate/multiplicate as quickly.
Also there is the issue of different populations. Mortality rate might be x% in the chinese population and y% in the italian population and z% in the US population. For instance, my understanding is that chinese people smoke far more than we do (even though we smoke a lot in this country), for a respiratory pathogen this is certainly a big issue. Access to healthcare is another issue.

Since you quote this article lets keep reading:
However, given the efficiency of transmission as indicated in the current report, we should be prepared for Covid-19 to gain a foothold throughout the world, including in the United States. Community spread in the United States could require a shift from containment to mitigation strategies such as social distancing in order to reduce transmission. Such strategies could include isolating ill persons (including voluntary isolation at home), school closures, and telecommuting where possible.

For context, they say they were writing this around Feb 26th when there were only 14 cases in the US.
They are clearly taking it seriously even back then. Check out the first author's name. :lol:

As for the rest, there is a clear difference between panicking and taking something seriously. I hope you can tell them apart.
Cheers.
#15082906
maz wrote:Here are two of the top ones in the US.

Covid-19 — Navigating the Uncharted



Ex-Obama health advisor: US needs to ‘stop panicking and being hysterical’ about coronavirus



Nice links. A bit out of date to support your argument, but they do undermine those arguing it is all Trump’s fault.

Personally, I think those experts were wrong at the time (end of January). China had already locked down Wuhan. Nobody locks down a major city without a very compelling reason. Anyone with any sense started preparing at that point. Unfortunately western governments were too complacent and now the pandemic has wrought havoc.

It is a mistake to hold Trump accountable while ignoring the complicity of other Western leaders. They all f#$ked up. Particularly when China’s government and the WHO were critical of any border closures with China at that time (which my own government ignored).


While on the subject, imagine what would have happened if the looney left had their way with no border control at all? There would have been no capacity to stop the spread on a national level. Those lefties sure are dumb, right @Donna ?
#15082907
quetzalcoatl wrote:That's some seriously deformed reasoning. If you have diabetes, assuming reasonable care, you're likely to live many years. People who get C-19 and die in a few days, aren't dying from diabetes - that's a ridiculous assertion.


That's some seriously deformed reasoning. Not every diabetic who contracts C-19 dies. Not even every severe diabetic dies, even most of the severe diabetes cases live. According to your expert, 2/3 of the people who die of C-19 would have died within the year regardless. This isn't killing healthy people, you can just go look at the NYC mortality numbers to confirm that. NYC lists the number of cases with pre-existing conditions and only tiny fraction of a fraction of deaths are in young healthy people. And 99% of the deaths in young healthy people are most likely cases where there is some compounding factor that made them temporarily vulnerable like a recent or concurrent bacterial infection or something.

It's amazing how resistant you people are to facts and rational perspesctive. You're terrified of your own mortality and you're literally destroying the lives of billions of people just to avoid a minor risk to yourselves. I can't think of a more shameful fucking legacy to leave the world. The boomers aren't just the fakest generation, they're also the most selfish and cowardly generation. My generation should erect a monument to the selfish cowardice of the boomer generation.

And btw, all a pathologist has to really do


I posted an article by a professor of pathology discussing how the death count is wildly inflated.

This all comes from the right wing hatred of public health and their decades of propaganda how evil govt is.


:knife: I think it comes more from a general disgust with the mindless panic and a legitimate concern over the erosion of civil liberties that is certain to be a permanent feature of the 'new normal' that emerges from this fucking farce.
#15082908
foxdemon wrote:While on the subject, imagine what would have happened if the looney left had their way with no border control at all? There would have been no capacity to stop the spread on a national level. Those lefties sure are dumb, right @Donna ?


Please don't randomly tag me to make weird comments. It's incredibly creepy.
#15082912
If it really were simply a farce or inflated figures, we wouldn't be running out of hospital beds, respirators, masks, and protective gowns - even if this is only temporary, it proves we don't have proper surge capacity. Doctors and nurses wouldn't be going on strike - they see death every day and they don't get bent out of shape over nothing. We wouldn't have 41 NY transit workers dying in just a few weeks.

I'll make you one hard prediction. When this virus filters into red states, you're going to hear a very different story from the right wingers. Red state governors have been closing their rural hospitals by the dozens for years. When they have to take the hit personally, they're not gonna be so philosophical about dying. Count on it.
#15082914
foxdemon wrote:Nice links. A bit out of date to support your argument, but they do undermine those arguing it is all Trump’s fault.

Personally, I think those experts were wrong at the time (end of January).


If they were wrong about the coronavirus then why are they currently running the coronavirus pandemic response?

If the virus is as serious as they claim it is, then why isn't "doctor" Fauchi being held responsible for his role in downplaying the incident?

I would say it is clearly Police abuse of force, […]

1 word, @blackjack21 : TRAINING. You can be train[…]

donald in the bunker

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/[…]

Looking for trouble is all that sounds like... :[…]