How Screwed is the UK Labour Party Now? - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Political issues and parties in Europe's nation states, the E.U. & Russia.

Moderator: PoFo Europe Mods

Forum rules: No one line posts please. This is an international political discussion forum, so please post in English only.
#15082786
I think people are kind of looking at this all backwards. It's actually a pretty stunning indictment of late capitalism that the Tory Party has become a massive party of electable technocrats with no real commitment to Tory ideals, even neoliberal ones. It might be good for Tory politicians that winning elections is a given, but there's a lot of systemic contradictions packed into that gravy train.
#15082791
Donna wrote:I think people are kind of looking at this all backwards. It's actually a pretty stunning indictment of late capitalism that the Tory Party has become a massive party of electable technocrats with no real commitment to Tory ideals, even neoliberal ones. It might be good for Tory politicians that winning elections is a given, but there's a lot of systemic contradictions packed into that gravy train.

"Late Capitalism" is a myth.

The Tory Party is doing what it has been doing since it ate the Liberal Party, they are broadening their base to include their opposition's voters. Electoral politics favours whoever can build the biggest tent. The Tories started with rural gentlemen and the military (a pretty narrow base to be sure) then it became the party of business and commerce which swallowed the Liberal Party and now it will become the party of public services especially the NHS which will swallow the better part of the Labour Party.

Blair seemed to be smart enough try to do the same for Labour, he understood that a party for the working class is too small a tent for reliably taking government. So he made a major PR effort to make Labour attractive to aspirational and professional people too. He got three landslides from that broadening of the tent.

Corbyn was a godsend for the Tory Party (I could almost believe he was a trojan horse he was so perfect for the Tories) a low IQ crank with a blatant distaste for Britain and British people (to the point of being overtly traitorous) was absolutely guaranteed to cost Labour the more patriotic and principled of the working class people.

Starmer may do better but Labour has been increasingly using muslims to fill out their numbers which necessarily means losing the jewish vote. Starmer looks like he wants try to get the Jewish vote back but I think that may be a lost cause which would only annoy the Muslim vote. So that may cost more than it gets. The other thing is that Starmer looks like he wants to go for the Remainer vote. Brexit is pretty much a done deal at this point so there is not really much to be gained from that and again much to lose because this will be seen by the pro-Brexit voters and they will know that the Tories are still the safest place for their votes even if they might otherwise vote Labour.
#15082974
@SolarCross

If I remember rightly. it was you that left the field after I posted a few words explaining why you, and people like you, are a very silly.


:lol:
Last edited by ingliz on 09 Apr 2020 11:53, edited 1 time in total.
#15082976
SolarCross wrote:irrelevant

The relevant quote:

Dialectical thinking, acutely aware of the preponderance of these objective laws, criticises rather than celebrates both them and the illusion that the course of the world is already determined by what is particular and concrete.

defend the prophecy

It's not a prophecy. As humans are not rational a fact or objective law (that would be objective in a rational reality) does not determine the course of the world .

As I said after explaining why your post was particularly silly even for you, you fucked off with your tail between your legs.


:)
Last edited by ingliz on 09 Apr 2020 14:06, edited 2 times in total.
#15082981
Are you really this dense?

Late capitalism is a fact and Marx's analysis of it is correct but when has a fact or a rational analysis determined the course of the world.

The old is dying, the new struggles to be born, and in the interregnum there are many morbid symptoms.

Antonio Gramsci


:)
#15082982
ingliz wrote:Are you really this dense?

Late capitalism is a fact and Marx's analysis of it is correct but when has a fact or a rational analysis determined the course of the world.

The old is dying, the new struggles to be born, and in the interregnum there are many morbid symptoms.

Antonio Gramsci

:)

I think you are. It is a fact you say but it has what? nothing. where is it? what is it? So far it seems to be as phantasmic as a fantasy. So that is what it is.
#15082985
SolarCross wrote:It is a fact...

The old order is on its last legs.

But,

No social order ever disappears before all the productive forces for which there is room in it have been developed.

So it will stagger on with corporations gobbling up the nation states, austerity for the poor, and expanding debt. That is an unfolding fact not a prophecy - one of the many morbid symptoms of collapse.

Whether this leads to revolution is not in doubt but when and what form it takes, given the increasingly apathetic 'bread and circuses' population, cannot be predicted.
#15082990
ingliz wrote:The old order is on its last legs.

But,

No social order ever disappears before all the productive forces for which there is room in it have been developed.

So it will stagger on with corporations gobbling up the nation states, austerity for the poor, and expanding debt. That is an unfolding fact not a prophecy - one of the many morbid symptoms of collapse.

Whether this leads to revolution is not in doubt but when and what form it takes, given the increasingly apathetic 'bread and circuses' population, cannot be predicted.

The end is always nigh.
#15082991
ingliz wrote:It will be?

It already has been! The first thing Keir Starmer did on becoming leader was cull the Corbynites among the Shadow Cabinet. He's got his eyes on the NEC, now.

Normal service has resumed.


:lol:

Oh yes, he's got to repair the party and put it on track again after it was derailed and wrecked.

Also, by the NEC do you mean these people? Sure, they should definitely follow their leader and go.

#15082995
SolarCross wrote:The end is always nigh.

It is.

Whoever killeth a human being …it is as though he has killed all mankind.

Qur’an, 5:32

You could cross a road and be run over by a bus tomorrow.


:)
#15083010
@SolarCross

'that says nothing about capitalism.'

No it doesn't but why should it? You've said nothing about capitalism for the last 7 posts.


:)
#15083036
SolarCross wrote:as long as we agree

We don't.

If you had the patience to read Marx before you post your silly memes and were able to engage with the arguments made, people might take you more seriously. As it is you just come across as a witless fool who doesn't know his arse from his elbow.


:)
#15083038
ingliz wrote:We don't.

If you had the patience to read Marx before you post your silly memes and were able to engage with the arguments made, people might take you more seriously. As it is you just come across as a witless fool who doesn't know his arse from his elbow.
:)

None the less Late Capitalism is wishful thinking but by all means wait for your prophecy to come true. I am sure you will be waiting forever.
Am I racist in your opinion?

I'm pleased to see that the poll so far is in favo[…]

The Clown you give me hope that even some libera[…]

Whataboutisms from the Village Idiot. @Rich , y[…]

Donald in the Bunker

You put so much false stuff on here that I don't […]