Worse economic crisis since Depression IMF - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15083240
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52236936

According to the IMF, poor nations are going to need hundreds of billions of dollars in state aid during a time when Western nations are tripling their already colossus debt. 3.3 billion people have had their place of work partially or fully closed, another record breaking week of unemployment in America, poor and emerging nations are hardest hit, EU nations cant agree monetary measures to tackle this crisis and people still think economic factors shouldn't be a factor in our decision making.

Does people going hungry and starving mean nothing?
#15083244
Istanbuller wrote:IMF is trying to fool some countries to squeeze cash from them. Their statement is exaggerated.

It is mostly experienced that economies are recovering so fast after crisis. Growth take places so fastly.


Growth depends on spending. If people have less income by being out of work or have had their yearly income slashed, that will have an impact on growth. And the IMF know what they are talking about. They aren't asking for cash. They are just spelling out what is happening and what is needed to happen.
#15083251
‘We will starve here’


In small groups and large crowds, through inner-city lanes and down interstate highways, hundreds of thousands of India’s poorest are slowly making a desperate journey on foot back to their villages in a mass exodus unseen since the days immediately after India’s independence in 1947.

For many, it’s a matter of life and death. Prime minister Narendra Modi’s order last Tuesday to lock down the country for 21 days to prevent the spread of Covid-19 has dried up work in urban areas, leaving many rural migrants who keep the city moving while making less than $2 a day – construction workers, handymen, food sellers, truck drivers and household help – suddenly wondering how they’ll pay rent or buy food.

“We have to go to our village – we will starve here,” said Rekha Devi as she walked with her husband and two young children down a highway outside of Delhi, heading to see her family some 270 miles (370km) away. The couple lived on the construction site where they worked, but the job stopped suddenly more than a week ago.

India’s exodus of migrant workers ‘a bigger problem than virus itself’

“We haven’t eaten for two days,” Devi said, noting that the little money they had saved quickly ran out.

“We are scared of this disease but I think hunger will kill us. We will stay hungry, but how can we watch our children starve?”


The family on Sunday walked with hundreds of others down a highway normally clogged with vehicles, their mouths and noses covered with scarves or handkerchiefs or masks. They clasped their children and belongings – tattered duffel bags stuffed with clothes, buckets filled with cooking utensils, blankets and sheets.

The grim scenes playing out across the nation of 1.3 billion people are some of the worst across the world since the virus crisis shut down much of the global economy. In India, it’s brought back memories of the mass migration sparked by deadly religious riots when the subcontinent was split up after the British left in 1947. These days, however, the divide is largely between those in India with money and those who live month by month, or even day by day.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long ... 38401.html


And these people's problems are just beginning. The horrific immiseration of hundreds of milions of people is just beginning. babbittry is a weapon of mass destruction.
#15083254
SolarCross wrote:Dumping fake money in an economy will make things worse not better.


Maybe. But without giving people money during this crisis, they will default on their debt and be unable to buy food.

You cannot halt production and expect everything to remain the same.
#15083255
'We'll die of hunger first': Despair as Zimbabwe lockdown begins

In a country dealing with a severe economic crisis, many fear steps to curb coronavirus will hit vulnerable people hard.

"We desperately need to get maize now that there is a lockdown," Dzivira told Al Jazeera, holding his son while sitting on the concrete pavement outside a miller's building in central Harare.

He was not alone. Hundreds of others were queueing alongside him on the eve of the start of a three-week lockdown imposed by the government to contain the spread of COVID-19, the highly infectious respiratory disease caused by the new coronavirus.

"All citizens are required to stay at home, with the exception of those seeking health services, buying food, medicine and vital supplies, and those manning our essential services," President Emmerson Mnangagwa said on Friday as he announced the lockdown.

"I know that these measures may seem drastic, and will upset all of our daily lives, but there is no other way," added Mnangagwa, two weeks after declaring a "national disaster" and banning gatherings of more than 100 people.

As of Sunday, COVID-19 had infected seven people in Zimbabwe and caused the death of one person, 30-year-old broadcaster Zororo Makamba.


Under the lockdown, Dzivira doubts he will be able to go out and find any menial job - his source of income - in and around Harare.

"I don't know how I will be surviving during the lockdown period," said Dzivira whose daily diet comprises three meals of sadza, a corn paste, and vegetables. "I hustle for food every day, and it's going to be a challenge for me and my family."


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/ ... 19081.html
#15083256
Meanwhile,



On April 9, Canada released its projections and modelling for the best and worst-case scenarios when it comes to COVID-19 across the country.

Dr. Theresa Tam, the nation’s Chief Public Health Officer, said during a press conference that "while models are imperfect they allow us to forecast infection and illness rates in the short term."

In the worst-case scenario with no control measures in place, there could be 300,000 deaths from COVID-19 in Canada during this epidemic.

However, with tight limits, there could be about 11,000 fatalities across the country.

"We can't prevent every death but we must prevent every death that we can," Tam said.

The federal government also released models of the impact public health measures would have, showing that 1% to 10% of the population could be infected with strong measures in place.

With weaker controls in place, that rises to 25%-40% and with no control measures, it goes even higher to between 70%-80% of people infected.


'Source


They're talking about models being effective for the short-term while their policies are tailored for long-term projections.
#15083257
B0ycey wrote:Maybe. But without giving people money during this crisis, they will default on their debt and be unable to buy food.

You cannot halt production and expect everything to remain the same.

Defaulting on debt should be fine. The money borrowed was fake as well, the "lenders" will not lose anything that was actually real. If we can make people with real jobs unemployed because of a virus we can make people with fake jobs selling fake money unemployed for a bit. So government can declare a debt amnesty.

Okay so now to help those with an interrupted income. The government (and also charities) can set up a hard luck fund where people with interrupted income can get a special interest free soft loan from the government with no repayments due until after the crisis.

It is important to maintain the purchasing power of the money or else you help one person only to hurt another. For example you can create out of thin air free money and dump it on the unemployed then sure they can buy food but that new money will push up the food prices making it too expensive for someone who as a fixed income like a pensioner. So pensioners starve instead of your unemployed.

Whatever you do, you can not destroy faith in the money. If you do that trade will stop and will stay stopped even after the crisis is finished. That is what causes a depression.
#15083259
SolarCross wrote:Defaulting on debt should be fine.


:lol:

Did you think that during the 2008 crisis? You don't know anything about economics do you? Unless you are a secret Socialist, if you want you monetary Insitutions to function, you should be changing your tune.

The money borrowed was fake as well, the "lenders" will not lose anything that was actually real. If we can make people with real jobs unemployed because of a virus we can make people with fake jobs selling fake money unemployed for a bit. So government can declare a debt amnesty.

Okay so now to help those with an interrupted income. The government (and also charities) can set up a hard luck fund where people with interrupted income can get a special interest free soft loan from the government with no repayments due until after the crisis.

It is important to maintain the purchasing power of the money or else you help one person only to hurt another. For example you can create out of thin air free money and dump it on the unemployed then sure they can buy food but that new money will push up the food prices making it too expensive for someone who as a fixed income like a pensioner. So pensioners starve instead of your unemployed.

Whatever you do, you can not destroy faith in the money supply. If you do that trade will stop and will stay stopped even after the crisis is finished. That is what causes a depression.


Right, this is complete garbage. It is so untrue, I cannot be bothered to tell you why it is wrong - except all of it is.
#15083260
@B0ycey
Yes, if you can't pay a debt you should default. Maybe next time you will not do it. The finanical institutions are horribly corrupt at the moment, I would go at them with fire and sword. They can all fail and we can start again with honest money. Fake money is fake, why delay the inevitable, what kind of cowardice is that?
#15083262
SolarCross wrote:@B0ycey
Yes, if you can't pay a debt you should default. Maybe next time you will not do it. The finanical institutions are horribly corrupt at the moment, I would go at them with fire and sword. They can all fail and we can start again with honest money. Fake money is fake, why delay the inevitable, what kind of cowardice is that?


Don't you get it. The monetary system is CAPITALISM. Money is nothing more than a medium for exchanging debt. Take that away and you are left with mutual exchange, businesses going bust and governments legislating production. :lol:

Marx was right. You just cannot see it.
#15083263
B0ycey wrote:Marx was right. You just cannot see it.

What's your point? If the system collapses, why would you be upset if you are a proponent of Marx?
#15083266
blackjack21 wrote:What's your point? If the system collapses, why would you be upset if you are a proponent of Marx?


Unfortunately I cannot be sure that if Capitalism collapses what the outcome could be. But I do have an interest in everyone's standard of living. After Covid 19, governments responses should be investing in nationalisation, maintaining production and a basic living wage for everyone. If that happens, I don't care about unemployment figures and sure, let the banks go bust. But I suspect what will happen is bailouts upon bailouts and loans upon loans.
#15083267
B0ycey wrote:Don't you get it. The monetary system is CAPITALISM. Money is nothing more than a medium for exchanging debt. Take that away and you are left with mutual exchange, businesses going bust and governments legislating production. :lol:

Marx was right. You just cannot see it.

Trade between free people is capitalism. To trade you need honest money. If the money is garbage fake scammy shit then trade eventually will fail because no one trusts the media of exchange. That is a depression.

#15083269
SolarCross wrote:Trade between free people is capitalism. To trade you need honest money. If the money is garbage fake scammy shit then trade eventually will fail because no one trusts the media of exchange. That is a depression.



Capitalism is the means to trade for profit. Exchange value doesn't do that. For someone to profit, someone must inherit debt. The objective is best served by the nation holding that debt and that can only be achieved with a monetary institution or a central bank. Or do you still hold that naive opinion of yours that Nomads of early man were the first Capitalists when they swapped berries for corn? :lol:.
#15083270
B0ycey wrote:Capitalism is the means to trade for profit. Exchange value doesn't do that. For someone to profit, someone must inherit debt. The objective is best served by the nation holding that debt and that can only be achieved with a monetary institution or a central bank. Or do you still hold that naive opinion of yours that Nomads of early man were the first Capitalists when they swapped berries for corn? :lol:.

That makes no sense. Where did you get that shit?

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