Worse economic crisis since Depression IMF - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15083276
Let's just cut the crazy communism kids. If communists actually understood economics then all the communist countries would not be such massive shitholes.

I am watching this at the moment and it is more interesting than of the gibberish you lunatics are braying.

#15083277
The movement of millions of people from the cities to the villages is for survival.
In the villages, people have relatives and they have rice and lentils to eat. Sometimes they have chickens, ducks, milk, fish ponds, and so on. That is why they now left the cities. Most people can get by. Not in a luxury way but in the cities they also lived in slums and congested places.
#15083278
SolarCross wrote:Let's just cut the crazy communism kids. If communists actually understood economics then all the communist countries would not be such massive shitholes.

I am watching this at the moment and it is more interesting than of the gibberish you lunatics are braying.



All we did was define Capitalism SolarCross? If you're talking about negative consequences of excessive printing then sure, there is inflation issues and we agree. But it won't be the value of currency that breaks down the economy it will be the lack cash flow.

Anyways, the IMF are basically calling for more money to prevent the future global economic crash. What do you think of that if you do not believe in the methods of MMT? And if businesses can't get liquidity and go bust and cannot pay wages, what do you think should be done with that if you are happy for banking to go bust?
#15083281
Ter wrote:The movement of millions of people from the cities to the villages is for survival.
In the villages, people have relatives and they have rice and lentils to eat. Sometimes they have chickens, ducks, milk, fish ponds, and so on. That is why they now left the cities. Most people can get by. Not in a luxury way but in the cities they also lived in slums and congested places.


What you saying here? Those from developing nations won't need financial help? They just need to migrate from the city to the village? I hope you're right Ter, but I doubt it if I go by their own words.
#15083284
The Sabbaticus wrote:Meanwhile,





Neil Ferguson's mad cow model projected between 50(fifty, not fifty thousand) and 500,000. :lol: It killed 150 so I guess his model was right. :lol:
#15083286
B0ycey wrote:What you saying here? Those from developing nations won't need financial help? They just need to migrate from the city to the village? I hope you're right Ter, but I doubt it if I go by their own words.


I was talking about the people and survival.
And I know what I am talking about.
I did not say the countries do not need help.
And apart from bare survival, the people who had jobs, like the garment workers for instance, were financially better off with jobs in the city, but in the village they can survive.
#15083292
B0ycey wrote:All we did was define Capitalism SolarCross? If you're talking about negative consequences of excessive printing then sure, there is inflation issues and we agree. But it won't be the value of currency that breaks down the economy it will be the lack cash flow.

Anyways, the IMF are basically calling for more money to prevent the future global economic crash. What do you think of that if you do not believe in the methods of MMT? And if businesses can't get liquidity and go bust and cannot pay wages, what do you think should be done with that if you are happy for banking to go bust?

There is lack of cash flow because people are not buying and not earning because they have been told to isolate themeselves. That is the real crash. If you want to use the real crash to also crash the value of money then you are just making one problem into two problems. Unless of course we are looking at this as an opportunity to crash the fiat system inorder to hasten the move on to hard money. Then fair enough let's get accelerationist on it, set the money press into turbo mode until there is a million dollars for every potato in existence. The unemployed can buy their million dollar potatoes and the OAP with his fixed income of $1000 a month can just die quietly of starvation.
#15083296
SolarCross wrote:There is lack of cash flow because people are not buying and not earning because they have been told to isolate themeselves. That is the real crash. If you want to use the real crash to also crash the value of money then you are just making one problem into two problems. Unless of course we are looking at this as an opportunity to crash the fiat system inorder to hasten the move on to hard money. Then fair enough let's get accelerationist on it, set the money press into turbo mode until there is a million dollars for every potato in existence. The unemployed can buy their million dollar potatoes and the OAP with his fixed income of $1000 a month can just die quietly of starvation.


To be honest SolarCross, you're conflating the issue. Regardless whether inflation is an issue or not, without getting money into people's hand via work or subsidies today, they default on their debt and that is bad for the structures of Capitalism. Whether that is cash flow or borrowing it doesn't matter. That is actually the only reason banks were bailed out in 2008. It certainly wasn't for the ethics.

@Ter, so if everyone can be sustained from basic rations explain why they need for subsidies for you? Perhaps because if everyone moved to the country and just ate just lentil soup, the demand for lentals would go through the roof. And that would cause hunger due to that demand outweighing supply. It doesn't change anything the IMF says. If anything it proves their point.
#15083298
B0ycey wrote:@Ter, so if everyone can be sustained from basic rations explain why they need for subsidies for you? Perhaps because if everyone moved to the country and just ate just lentil soup, the demand for lentals would go through the roof. And that would cause hunger due to that demand outweighing supply. It doesn't change anything the IMF says. If anything it proves their point.

I was talking only about the very poor daily wagers who go to the village for immediate survival.
The factories and businesses and lower middle class people need help with loans and grants and tax relief and rent relief and so on.
It is also not a solution for the long haul. The percentage of people living in rural areas was about 90% twenty years ago and now it is maybe 70%. People like to come to the cities for better education for their children, better income, better medical services and so on.
#15083446
@B0ycey , what after says is accurate. I am only familiar with Indonesia, but I expect it is similar to many other places.

The rural poor, often the youths, come into the cities to earn cash, a portion of which they send back to their parents. This is how the village gets it’s money. They can support themselves, but they want cash, as an abstract medium of exchange is handy for getting all that stuff that the village economy can’t produce itself. Like handphones.

The cities will be in trouble if there is not enough food surplus. This is why it would be a good idea for the powerful governments to cooperate on food security. Otherwise many governments in these poorer nations will be overthrown by the rioting masses.
#15083454
Unless spikey boi can kill everyone, capitalism will bounce back. The Spanish / Kansas / 1918 flu and Black Death were barely speed bumps and coronachan / china virus is less in comparison. If shit got really bad we could each live in completely hermetically sealed sterilised bubbles but still trade electronically and do all our outside work using tele-drones or full AI robots.
Last edited by SolarCross on 11 Apr 2020 00:47, edited 1 time in total.
#15083521
foxdemon wrote:
The rural poor, often the youths, come into the cities to earn cash, a portion of which they send back to their parents. This is how the village gets it’s money. They can support themselves, but they want cash, as an abstract medium of exchange is handy for getting all that stuff that the village economy can’t produce itself. Like handphones.

The cities will be in trouble if there is not enough food surplus. This is why it would be a good idea for the powerful governments to cooperate on food security. Otherwise many governments in these poorer nations will be overthrown by the rioting masses.


Interesting post. And I agree. But whilst the West is sorting out its own shit, I suspect they aren't going to be focusing on food security for the rest of the world.

Nonetheless one thing I have noticed about this pandemic is each nation seems more interested in their own interests rather than work as a collective. What I expect from this is just like what we have seen with medical supplies. Food will start to be prevented from leaving each others borders. So nations should be preparing to mitigate their food supply and enhancing their food production now and not wait until there are food shortages. Also I am expecting rationing. These are only assumptions from a reflection though. But regardless, we all should be listening to the IMF even if you ignore the doomsayer on PoFo.
#15083546
B0ycey wrote:Interesting post. And I agree. But whilst the West is sorting out its own shit, I suspect they aren't going to be focusing on food security for the rest of the world.

Nonetheless one thing I have noticed about this pandemic is each nation seems more interested in their own interests rather than work as a collective. What I expect from this is just like what we have seen with medical supplies. Food will start to be prevented from leaving each others borders. So nations should be preparing to mitigate their food supply and enhancing their food production now and not wait until there are food shortages. Also I am expecting rationing. These are only assumptions from a reflection though. But regardless, we all should be listening to the IMF even if you ignore the doomsayer on PoFo.


Yes, that’s right. Every nation for themselves. Until governments collapse. Then it is every man for himself. :hmm:


Some countries are already restricting exports. Vietnam, for example, is keeping all their rice crop. A lot of production is impeded by internal restrictions. China, for example, is struggling with food production as labour and fertiliser can’t be freely moved around. Then produce is restricted in movement also. We will see more of this around the world.

Australia at least, had had good rains at last, some a bumper wheat season is expected. If America and Canada can sort it’s problems out, those three nations plus NZ and generate a reasonable sized surplus. In order to save the world, anglophone countries might need to prioritise resurrecting the agricultural sector first. So that might be where to apply enhanced testing regimes and souped up case tracing.
#15083580
SolarCross wrote: If shit got really bad we could each live in completely hermetically sealed sterilised bubbles


Like Ruth Bader Ginsburg?
#15083586
SolarCross wrote:
Unless of course we are looking at this as an opportunity to crash the fiat system in order to hasten the move on to hard money.



In a recent survey of economists, not a single one was in favor of the gold standard.

That's obviously economic suicide.

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