African-American Asphyxiated by Police in Minneapolis - Page 25 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15095651
District Attorneys are unwilling to prosecute police because they work closely with them. I'm not a legal expert, but one idea would be to have a separate person and office for handling crimes involving LEOs.

Also cops like Chauvin need to be ejected from the police force rather than being protected by their buddies. Some cops have much higher than average incidents of brutality, which you can track like a disease with them as patient 0. They work with other officers who either internalize their behavior as normal or become complicit in police brutality, and it spreads to other members of the department no differently than Covid.
#15095652
Saeko wrote:A) This is the start.

B) If you think the privatizations of prisons and the use of prison labor for profit is unrelated to police brutality you haven't been paying attention.


Lets pretend that it has 100% correlation with the problem.(This is not sarcasm, by 100% it means that it is the only and full cause of the problem) How does it happen? Do the police get "arrest targets" for people in the US so they can send them there. Do they get bonuses for arrests etc Usually this micro shit matters. Remove the incesitive for the regular policeman and restructure it to something else then that is not targeted at sending people straight to jail. Something along these lines.

@SpecialOlympian Weirdly enough that is a good idea SO. You can't police yourself or your friends. It doesn't work that way. One of the reason that globally things like seperations of power exist between branches of government.
#15095653
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I'm glad the president got to see a rocket ship launch today. Just imagine how much fun he had. What a big day for our special boy.

Did you know June is African-American Music Appreciate Month? Thank you, Mr. President. I can't take all this winning.
Last edited by SpecialOlympian on 31 May 2020 02:47, edited 1 time in total.
#15095655
Donna wrote:lol the Trump administration is going to blame communists for the riots.


lol and the leftist media is trying desperately to blame imaginary nazis for the riots.

Saeko wrote:For those of you who are still going on like "hurr durr, them n****** were just waiting for a chance to loot, derp."

https://www.courthousenews.com/minnesot ... ist-groups


Very vague, talking about internet posts and white supremacist groups. Interesting that they don't say where these online posts where found and which white supremacist groups they were linked to. Almost like they made this shit up out of wholecloth. The only white supremacist groups in America are the ones locked up in prison, or the ones who are paid by intelligence agencies to organize low IQ whites to entrap them by getting them to say that they are going to do something illegal.

Pants-of-dog wrote:@Wellsy did not claim that things have gotten worse than the 1960s.

He said the the structural racism inherent in the system was never addessed.


Who is not addressing it? I've seen it being discussed on practically a daily basis every day since Obama's second term. We can't get away from it. Wanna see some examples?

MSNBC addresses race

CNN addresses race

Pants-of-dog wrote:And we also now have the problem of people who pretend that racism is over.


That's so dumb. As long as there are different races there will always be racism.

And people who enter discussions of racist police brutality and try to derail the conversation by trying to start a debate on whether or not racism is really a problem.


The real discussion is that police brutality is an epidemic that effects everyone pretty much equally, and the derailment is injecting race in order to shape it to one's personal bias.

Wellsy wrote:Typing on my phone so trying to keep it simple ie without too much detail and much left to inference.

Well the shared circumstance does not alone constitute a class of people as they must necessarily form their aims. And the existing group in our times is the Black Lives Matter which has a what they believe page although it is a bit vague but does express some basic principles such as opposition to violence against blacks and to improve the standing of black people as a whole, not individually.

But the more specifics aren’t yet solidified except as proven in organizational activism. But the problem of race has merely changed form rather than been essential overcome.

My vague impression of the circumstance of blacks in the US specifically is that they have long been an underclass excluded from much power and prosperity afforded to others by historical trajectory in things even as the new deal progressive reforms.


Blacks are not excluded from power though. Here are a list of black mayors in the US. This list is already outdated but at least one black mayor on the list was replaced by another black person in that same city. Please note that many of the cities where blacks are mayors happen to be in cities where blacks aren't even the majority demographic. Also, black mayors allbelong to an association, where they have consolidated their power.

And that's not even counting all of the black city council members and other elected officials. Hell, even chief of police in Minnesota is a black man.

Ones status in society is based on the average rather than the exceptions, and black Americans are still confined to ghettos and the violence against them while in the form of race seems to me to be an expression of class violence, of which many whites of the lower class can endure also but their perception can be altered by the average sense of whiteness in the US.


The violence done to blacks in the ghetto are done first and foremost by other blacks, not whites or any other races who go out of their way to not ever find themselves in black ghettos. As a matter of fact, even police don't even want to police some of these ghettos, depending on the city. And when they are forced to go into these areas there can be violent confrontations. None of this is white people's fault by the way, as there are many programs establish by whites to help these people, such as food, housing and daycare subsidies.

There is great resistance to the average class position of blacks and its been a dividing part for the US from its very
founding. Because the sort of power needed to overcome racial inequality and i justice would be too strong a threat to the present state that it ends up to radical to simply be a matter of reform as far as i can tell.
https://www.lacan.com/zizrobes.htm


Again, I just don't see any opposition to blacks collectively as a group. You seem to want to discount all of the black success in America, particularly in the music, arts and entertainment, where blacks hold a lock on many positions within them, and focus on the extreme low end of the black demographic. But I guess that is how the left always looks at everything; focus on the poor and use them as a battering ram to the rest of civil society.

As for your link, it left me repulsed.
#15095662
It's like every armed middle aged white guy in America is an unofficial auxiliary of their racial caste. The tacit tolerance from county sheriffs and state governors, I'm assuming a remnant of colonialist and frontier political structures and traditions, enables this parallel paramilitary development to occur and with it a violently reactionary and fascistic impulse that runs right through the substratum of the country. Being in denial of the problem is becoming, rightly so, just as bad as taking a tiki torch to an Alt-Right rally.

Every day mainstay conservative PoFo'ers are losing their innocence bit by bit as the times demand increasingly stoic cruelty to maintain the status quo they defend.
#15095663
We are told that we live in a society where blacks are excluded from power, and supposedly influence. Well tell me where any white person can get on national television and say that ALL blacks have a virus in their brain that can be activated at any given time.

CNN's Van Jones: Every white person has a virus in their brain. It’s too late to be innocent.

In the video, he's calling out YOU, white liberal.

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Van Jones hates white people so much that he married one LOL
Last edited by maz on 31 May 2020 03:08, edited 1 time in total.
#15095664
He's right. MLK Jr. said the same thing, that the white liberal who helps maintain the status quo was a greater threat than the Klan member.

It's really cool how Maz is too stupid to understand this or is just so bad at making bad faith arguments that you assume he's acting really stupid.
#15095665
JohnRawls wrote:I understand all that Tainari. I understand the social imbalance that this brings and why it happens. The real issue here is that we are currently tackling the use of police violence for no reason and not all social issues that exist. Once again, i do not disagree with all what you said. I agree with it. It is a problem.

So what is the fix for the police so this doesn't happen again? How do you implement it US wide?



The answer is there in front of you? You study the police systems in the world that are the most effective at lowering crime statistics in the communities they serve and you reproduce it. In the USA. But? American criminal justice systems are run often by people who are against the philosophies of the nations with the best systems. It is a cultural and political will problem along with for-profit systems. The USA has more incarcerated people than almost any other industrialized nation in the entire world. Including the PRC.

Germany has a low crime rate. Compared to the USA. How do they do policing? Does Japan have a low crime rate? And many others. How do they keep crime down? The South Korean system is fascinating in how they keep crime down. Even this city I live in? Merida, Yucatan, Mexico? It is statistically the second safest city in North America John. How do they do it? The local state police of the Yucatan has a very different style than what exists in many cities in the USA.


Study what is working also in the UK with police presence. There are hardly any shootings and deaths. Why?

Criminal justice systems are about building trust within a community that law enforcement patrols. That means doing a lot of community meetings, and programs and funding them well. Meeting consistently with small business leaders, religious church communities etc, schools, community groups and handling people with mental illness well, volatile domestic violence, prevention programming. The vast majority of hatred of the cops are about cops being trained to use deadly force and or excessive force and not having good communication skills and de escalation skills. it is an art form and requires years of updating and training. How does one prevent crime. Four things are usually present in communities with high crime stats. illiteracy and low educational achievement levels, lack of safe recreation and public parks, etc that are safe, the presence of a lot of illegal and illicit drug use or distribution and generally high unemployment and lack of youth employment programs, lack of libraries and of basic resources like after school programs, and lack of treatment for alcoholism, pill popping and other programs.

Keeping it all safe John Rawls is a very intense and ongoing process. You neglect it and only use hardline tactics and not the soft skills of constantly communicating and interacting with the communities you serve all the time and being very active in soft skills and communication? Also hiring officers from those neighborhoods. People who grow up in the neighborhoods they serve is a very good thing. Also, gun control in the USA is very poor. In general.

At the same time? Americans are incredibly attached to the idea of gun ownership for citizens. Gun safety and gun maintenance are important to teach in communities where there are a lot of gun owners who are present. The list is endless. Study the systems in the world with the lowest criminal recidivism rates. Implement it. Place criminals that served their time and are released in monitored programs where they work and get paid enough to live and save like the rest of the citizens who do the same.
#15095671
SpecialOlympian wrote:He's right. MLK Jr. said the same thing, that the white liberal who helps maintain the status quo was a greater threat than the Klan member.

It's really cool how Maz is too stupid to understand this or is just so bad at making bad faith arguments that you assume he's acting really stupid.


Maybe Van Jones got a divorce from his white wife because the virus in her brain suddenly caused her to be racist against him :lol: :lol: :lol:
#15095675
Donna wrote:It's like every armed middle aged white guy in America is an unofficial auxiliary of their racial caste.



The murder of George Floyd is despicable and horrendous. The police force has many racist cops. The American police has a serious violence problem. The cops are poorly trained or are simply too dumb.

However,

The problem is not going to be solved by asking white people to fix it.

White people are not coming to to save the day.

White people getting down on their knees and asking to be forgiven will not solve the problem.

Giving cash to every black person in America will fix nothing because the cash will not last.

The only solution to racism is to change a negative stereotype into a positive stereotype. There is no other way!
#15095678
maz wrote:Who is not addressing it? I've seen it being discussed on practically a daily basis every day since Obama's second term. We can't get away from it. Wanna see some examples?

MSNBC addresses race

CNN addresses race


You misunderstood.

When I said that the inherent racism of US society was never addressed, I did not mean that it was never talked about. I meant that it was never talked about in any meaningful way that led to it being resolved.

That's so dumb. As long as there are different races there will always be racism.


The same people who say that racism is over also say we will always have racism. Yes, the two ideas are logically inconsistent, but the common thread is that white people can do nothing about it and are not responsible, which is obviously incorrect.

The real discussion is that police brutality is an epidemic that effects everyone pretty much equally, and the derailment is injecting race in order to shape it to one's personal bias.


I see.

You want to ignore police brutality against blacks and instead derail the conversation into one where you are the victim because blacks are being unfair by focusing on how structural racism and police brutality intersect.

Julian658 wrote:The problem is not going to be solved by asking white people to fix it.

White people are not coming to to save the day.

White people getting down on their knees and asking to be forgiven will not solve the problem.

Giving cash to every black person in America will fix nothing because the cash will not last.

The only solution to racism is to change a negative stereotype into a positive stereotype. There is no other way!


When white people stop being racist, then you guys can tell the rest of us how to stop racism.
#15095679
Julian658 wrote:The murder of George Floyd is despicable and horrendous. The police force has many racist cops. The American police has a serious violence problem. The cops are poorly trained or are simply too dumb.


True.

The problem is not going to be solved by asking white people to fix it.

White people are not coming to to save the day.

White people getting down on their knees and asking to be forgiven will not solve the problem.

Giving cash to every black person in America will fix nothing because the cash will not last.

The only solution to racism is to change a negative stereotype into a positive stereotype. There is no other way!


I disagree, because those other things can help a lot. White people are the majority, so their support is needed to get laws changed etc., an example is getting rid of slavery and Jim Crow. Also, if black people have more money via reparations or social programs, the problems of poverty will be reduced.
#15095681
Pants-of-dog wrote:The same people who say that racism is over also say we will always have racism. Yes, the two ideas are logically inconsistent, but the common thread is that white people can do nothing about it and are not responsible, which is obviously incorrect.


Exactly. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. That includes white people who continue to be racist and who need to change that, including white cops who do dumb and cruel things. Which has been by point in this entire thread.
#15095682
Pants-of-dog wrote:
When white people stop being racist, then you guys can tell the rest of us how to stop racism.


POD:

I am from Latin America. Where I come from we have little racism even though we had slavery.

The white people are not coming to save the black community. The only whites that want to supposedly save the black poor people are condescending racists of low expectations. Racism can only be cured by changing stereotypes. To put yourself in the hands of others will not do the job.
#15095684
noemon wrote:1. You are trying to distract from the topic by blaming Black people for their condition(victim-blaming and racist dog whistling) 2. and you were shamelessly defending the youtuber posting explicitly racist videos while at the same time trying to censor me and Donna. :lol:


1. My point has been, everyone is responsible for their own actions. Abusive cops, criminals, protestors, everyone.

2. My point in the Youtube thread was that in public people shouldn't be arrested for racist speech, and that Youtube as a private entity had the right censor and ban anyone they like for whatever speech they chose. My argument wasn't that everyone had the right to speech at all times even in public forums. Pofo is a private entity, it has rules, which IMO you broke, and as a moderator you chose to enforce (silence) my formal complaint against you yourself. You showed your true colours for everyone to see.
#15095685
Julian658 wrote:POD:

I am from Latin America. Where I come from we have little racism even though we had slavery.


I have no idea why you think I would believe either of these things.

Does your unsupported claim to being Latino magically justify racism from white people?

The white people are not coming to save the black community. The only whites that want to supposedly save the black poor people are condescending racists of low expectations. Racism can only be cured by changing stereotypes. To put yourself in the hands of others will not do the job.


No one wants or expects whites tp save the day.

Whites caused the problem, and people of colour have been solving it since then.

White people are responsible for their own racism.

So when white people cure themselves by changing the stereotypes they have about people of colour, then they can be part of the solution.

Until then, maybe you should stop telling people of colour how to clean up the mess that white people made.

Is Mr. Floyd‘s family supposed to fix the racism of the murdering cop?
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