African-American Asphyxiated by Police in Minneapolis - Page 37 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15096034
Zionist Nationalist wrote:in a normal country that respects itself looters get shot and arrested

In that specific order? :lol:

Trump's tweet was so scandalous that Twitter really had to do something about it.

National Public Radio wrote:Twitter took an unprecedented step in limiting the public's ability to view the president's tweet threatening shooting, saying it "violated the Twitter Rules about glorifying violence." The tweet is hidden unless a user clicks to display it, and users cannot like or reply to it.
#15096041
The Sabbaticus wrote:There is a whole roster of former FBI agents on the payroll of the MSM channels that are constantly saying what the MSM channels want them to say. No one takes these hacks, seriously. We've got three years of 'Russian collusion' palaver to sideline these people permanently. Also, [email protected] taking the word of establishment figures when it strategically benefits them.

The spinning is beginning...

Minneapolis mayor says 'white supremacists,' 'out of state instigators' behind protests, but arrests show different story
Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey said Saturday that officials think "white supremacists" and "out-of-state instigators" could be behind the protests in the wake of George Floyd’s death, but a report showed that "about 86 percent" of arrests so far are mostly of in-state residents.

Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz also said Saturday that the majority of the protestors arrested were from outside Minneapolis and sought to take advantage of the chaos.

I can believe outside of Minneapolis proper, but the idea that 80% are from out of state is stretching it pretty thin.

"We are now confronting white supremacists, members of organized crime, out of state instigators, and possibly even foreign actors to destroy and destabilize our city and our region," Frey had tweeted Saturday.

He sure sounds a little bit paranoid. It brings a little smile to my face.

In a tweet posted Saturday, a person who appears to be Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison can be seen with a copy of "Antifa, the Anti-Fascist Handbook."

This ^^^ and this vvv


They promote this stuff, and then it "blows up in their face" or so we're meant to believe.

SpecialOlympian wrote:Also lol @ blackjack being a total boomer who just quotes a bunch of folks 12 hours later in his desperate bid for relevance and attention.

I actually work for a living and then engage in recreation. This is my hobby when I find the news too boring. Why aren't you calling for an end to this "black murder porn" thread?

XogGyux wrote:Trump is not the direct cause of everything but he is without a doubt making racial/xenophobic tensions escalate in the US and even the world. He is as much a symptom of the problem as well as a multiplier of said problem.

Trump has focused on two things: outsourcing to China and illegal immigrants from Mexico and Central America driving wages down. It has widespread appeal among the working classes for very obvious reasons--even among black workers. It is also not something without a foundation in fact. He's not just making shit up out of thin air. Nobody would believe it if that were the case, and he never would have won. Trump won because, as Ann Coulter put it, he was the only one willing to bend over and pick up a $1000 bill.

XogGyux wrote:And the stress response was caused by what?

The effects of the arrest and restriction of blood flow I would assume.

XogGyux wrote:Look, this is the issue with you guys trying to make up excuses. Even if he had not died, the way that he was treated alone is criminal.

I'm not making excuses for Chauvin's behavior. I'm saying you have to charge it correctly and prosecute it correctly to get a conviction. I don't know shit about Minnesota law, but in California you get one bite at the apple. That's why Rodney King's perpetrators beat the state charges, even though they were eventually convicted on civil rights charges. Don't kid yourself. The establishment will try to work you into a dither to get this guy off on the charges if they aren't charged correctly or prosecuted correctly.

XogGyux wrote:If the guy were still alive with his family this was still criminal.

I don't disagree with you. I'm saying you have the Democrat urban establishment to contend with, and it's not going to change because they will blame this on Trump for political reasons knowing full well that Trump had virtually nothing to do with it.

XogGyux wrote:If he had sued the police and gotten 400000 billion dollars, this was still criminal

Yes, a tort would imply a criminal wrong as a matter of gross negligence too.

XogGyux wrote:And of course, lets not even mention the countless other times that shit like this happens, many of which have been caught on video and still takes ages for the victims to get any sort of justice/closure and let's not even talk about the ones that are not caught on video, audio or some sort of witness, those go largely ignored.

Dude, quite a bit of the criminal justice system is just plain rigged. However, that's the way the establishment wants it and the electorate tolerates it. Do you think you get a fair trial in traffic court in a first instance proceeding where the judge acts as judge, jury and prosecutor? No. Obviously not.

XogGyux wrote:Now to the other point, I think it is highly unlikely that a 41 year old, despite any other health condition that he might have, that his death is not directly related to the treatment that he received.

Well, now you're hitting on why it doesn't get prosecuted, and why it still occurred even after the Eric Garner incident.

XogGyux wrote:Maybe there is a minuscule, almost lightning striking twice in the same place kind of event, that he would have died anyway from a health condition that day, and maybe if he was treated with a pinch of decency this would not have happened.

Oh, I have no doubt he would have lived had he just been put in the car after being cuffed.

XogGyux wrote: Instead, by covering with excuses and inaction they have virtually guaranteed that no punishment (even if adequate/reasonable) will satisfy the mob... Nobody will get justice after this.

Welcome to establishment politics, and why I no longer consider myself owing them any allegiance.

XogGyux wrote:You seem to be trying to make a lot of emphasis on this. If I hang you, and you die by lack of circulation to the brain is it any different that if you die by breaking your neck, or if the rope is too long and the fall too high if you die by decapitation? The end result is the same, I killed you...

Yes, because people get off on charges like those made by Pants-of-dog--strangulation, asphyxiation, etc. You only need to make a general charge that you can sustain. Once you get down to the nitty gritty, you have to get it right or it can be successfully rebutted by the defense. So simply saying that the knee on his neck was an unnecessary use of force, induced stress and triggered a cascade of health-related issues that would not have occurred had the officer not unnecessarily placed a knee on Floyd's neck along with some of the officer's substantial body weight. That's all you have to do. You don't have to work yourself into a dither and claim he was choked to death.

XogGyux wrote:So unless an independent pathologist somehow comes to say, hey... this guy died from a bomb that he swallowed 3 days prior and happen to go off at the same time, it will be highly unlikely that any decent medical-legal witness will not be able to directly link it to the way that he was treated. And again, even if he had not died, or there is definite proof that he died of something else, it still would not clear these cops of the way they criminally treated him.
So stop with the nonsense.

If Floyd had not died, the most Chauvin would have faced is excessive use of force. Then, you have to address prosecutor politicians like Amy Klobuchar who let Chauvin off in the past. That's what I'm saying. Instead of focusing on someone who could have, and probably should have done something--namely, Amy Klobuchar--you are focusing on Trump's tweets as though they somehow bear on a local police case when Trump has no police power, in a Democrat run city, in a Democrat run county, in a Democrat run state. You are going way out of your way not to name the political party that is in charge when this stuff happens.

Let me help you out. Here is a list of the mayors of the 50 largest cities in the United States: List of mayors of the 50 largest cities in the United States

Blaming this stuff on Republicans is what Democrats and their media lackeys do to cover their own crimes. This is why it is not going to change, because voters are not going to change. Even black voters who are literally under the boots of these people are going to keep voting for them. That is the Faustian bargain of the welfare state laid bare for you.

XogGyux wrote:Are you suggesting that because he was a criminal, or alleged criminal anyways, it changes anything?

It changes what force is allowed in effecting an arrest. In this case, trying to utter counterfeit money is a felony. I'm not making a moral argument here based upon my point of view. I'm just explaining to you how the system works so that you can understand it. It does not justify in any way putting a knee on someone's neck after they are already in hand cuffs.

XogGyux wrote:Since when does the police have the authority to conduct judgment, sentencing and execution (quite literally execution in this case)?

This is what I mean by not giving in to histrionics. Floyd was not executed. He died as the proximate cause of excessive and unnecessary use of force.

XogGyux wrote:The deflections do nothing else but expose you. If you really think this was unacceptable, say so and shut up.

There are no deflections, so there is nothing exposed. I'm pointing out how the establishment gets away with this sort of thing precisely so that they don't get away with it in this case. That is why I won't shut up and neither will many Americans protesting this case.

XogGyux wrote:We can also agree violent protests, property destruction, etc is unacceptable. It is not hard for me to hold both thoughts simultaneously... why do you find it so hard?

I don't find it hard. I find it hard that you do not accept that these events happen in places controlled overwhelmingly by Democrats, and they always blame it on Republicans, white supremacists, etc. Let me restate mayor Frey's comment for you:

"We are now confronting white supremacists, members of organized crime, out of state instigators, and possibly even foreign actors to destroy and destabilize our city and our region," Frey had tweeted Saturday.

Really? Maybe people have just had enough with Democrats and their holy-than-thou bullshit, political correctness, cancel culture, wage destroying outsourcing and illegal immigration, and working-class livelihood destroying lockdowns. Maybe those things have something to do with it. Just maybe...

XogGyux wrote:why is it so hard for your dear idol Trump to condemn racists and instead weasels out by saying "very fine people on both sides" when white nationalists are involved in violent protests

It's not germane to the Floyd case. Trump also said there were bad people on both sides, and there were. He's just not playing the center-left establishment game. Neither am I. What did the establishment want from me in Charlottesville? To condemn the neo-nazis. That's not my problem. That's the establishment's problem. They need to fight their own battles. I'm not doing it for them anymore. What's the purpose of these riots? I'm supposed to come to the side of law and order. It's not my problem that they cannot control the situation right now, and I'm pleased to see their authority getting challenged. I think they are assholes. Did you see me championing their bailouts of big business--either the Republicans or the Democrats? No. Disagreeing with Trump is not going to get me to run into the arms of the establishment assholes. It just isn't.

XogGyux wrote:but has no trouble threatening the current protesters with shooting them by quoting a bully cop... that was an intentional reference and that must of come from one of the many racist ideologues that he has surrounded himself because not even for a second do I believe this potato head has any awareness of history.

The late 20th and early 21st centuries are pretty soft times when it comes to Western governments. It was common for riots to be put down with military force. Hell, they even used military force to put down labor unions in the past. I'm not a communist, but even I know that.

XogGyux wrote:Are you this eloquent when condemning the extreme right? Just wondering.

I haven't seen an extreme right rally nationwide, burning down cities, etc. When the extreme right becomes a problem for me, I'll be on it. Right now, they are a fringe nuisance at best.

XogGyux wrote:The chances of Stacy Abrams just shoot off the charts. I am not a particular fan of hers but I cannot deny that it looks like it will be politically advantageous for him.

Yeah, but Biden would probably refer to her with a racial epithet at some point knowing how daffy he can be. I just can't see his VP being Amy Klobuchar now, and two weeks ago, I would have given her an 80% chance.

XogGyux wrote:in this case, I am all for it because we need to maximize the chances of taking the orange potato out of the white house.

I'm not for restoring the neoliberal/neoconservative cabal. So I'm prepared to live with Trump for another four years.

XogGyux wrote:Tell me if you think sincerely that the US is in the right path today to becoming "great again".

In terms of what he's done so far, I'd say Trump gets a C-/D+. However, anyone else would be worse. We simply do not have a better candidate that's not going to sign off on the neoliberal/neoconservative cabal.

XogGyux wrote: There is also the stigma and prejudice that will follow the police for decades to come, the ones in minesota,

Well, that's okay. Minnesota is like the American version of Canada. They think a little too well of themselves.

XogGyux wrote:The semi-racist innocent joke you said with other friends that find it funny and not inapropriate might very well cost you the job even if you didn't mean it in a derogatory way and you are an otherwise non-racist great person. Some things are painful to others and we live in a society and we have to be mindful of others. If a moron in chief cannot realize this, maybe he should just be moron former-president instead.

I have no idea how old you are, but I'm a cord cutter and got rid of DirectTV and watch Fubo now. I have a few hundred episodes of All in the Family and Sanford and Son. If you think the US is racist now, you should watch a few episodes of that stuff. Insult comedy wasn't a crime in the past, and people would talk about TV shows at the water cooler the next day in the not too distant past. Today, there is no collective TV experience and it's so sanitized and political that it is just boring propaganda anymore.

XogGyux wrote:If he has swallowed a bag of meth, the police had not put a knee to his head, and he had been taken to the hospital the moment that any symptom became evident or the guy said anything that he was feeling bad and/or that he swallowed something... THEN and only then maybe you had a point. But all of this only happened in a parallel universe.

These guys will be tried, and we'll see what they say. I don't think there is any excuse for the officer's behavior (especially the knee on the neck), but you may hear one if the prosecution doesn't offer a plea bargain. Some of this stuff happens more often than you think. For example, my buddy was involved in an arrest where the suspect died. The suspect was absolutely unruly after being taken to the station. So the medical orderlies administered the maximum allowable dose of a sedative and the suspect died. Probably sloppy medical work, because they probably didn't test for intoxicants and took the arrestee's statements at face value. When you see absolutely unruly behavior like that, it can be psychosis due to excessive methamphetamine use. That's often the case. However, it can also be a response hitting glutamate receptors due to withdraw from PCP, Ketamine, etc. The latter are downers, and when you see someone psychotic like that, you don't tend to think withdrawal from downers. You think psychometh dude. Administer another downer, and it's game over. It happens. In fact, for a downer like heroin or fentanyl they've removed the need for a prescription for Narcan, because people are constantly overdosing on fentanyl in the streets. Emergency rooms don't want these people, so the system is evolving for first responders to administer Narcan. It's a mighty fucked up world some people live in.

The Sabbaticus wrote:The end result was that the black pundit had his media career torpedoed for calling out the ridiculous nonsense of the FBI/CIA hack.

Yeah, try finding anything from sonofnewo now. He laid out probable deep state involvement in Charlottesville and a bunch of irregularities. The courts silenced him as part of the litigation he initiated.
#15096042
Zionist Nationalist wrote:@blackjack21


antifa and BLM are two sides of the same coin
one group manipulates SJW kids into joining them and doing dirty job for soros and his buddies (they are too stupid to realize that they are being used)
the other group manipulates black folks but they are an easy target because they are not too bright either


Be careful not to stereotype groups. There are peaceful protestors among antifa and BLM and these recent protestors, just like there are violent rioters within them too. Stereotyping entire groups of people based on a few bad apples is what leads to racism in the first place, it's very dangerous, and completely illogical. Everyone is an individual and is responsible for their own actions, and should be judged based on that. Every group has a few bad apples, so it's possible to hate just about every group if you look for an excuse.
Last edited by Unthinking Majority on 31 May 2020 22:39, edited 1 time in total.
#15096045
Zionist Nationalist wrote:I didn't call you stupid I said it was not smart for Trump to say that on Twitter
should have said it in a clever way not on twitter

Sorry, my mistake.

It's fine he communicates with his base on Twitter, he may be too much obsessed with it, though, but it's really a shame the POTUS made Twitter apply unprecedented policies on himself.
#15096046
SpecialOlympian wrote:Just think of the fun day our president had. He watched a rocket go all *woosh*! What a fun day our president had!

I am so proud of my big orange boy.


Here is trump's home sweet home where he hides from his constituents behind electrified fences, heavily armed police and vicious dogs …………. afraid and alone.
Image
#15096047
Beren wrote:Sure, but neither Minneapolis nor Minnesota will fall into chaos or anarchy, in the long term at least, while June will be African-American Music Appreciation Month. Everything will be fine by July at least and the real discussion on racism and police brutality, both of which I'm sure will be the main themes of the Democratic National Convention, may just begin then.


Maybe, but that doesn't necessarily mean people will have forgotten by then. This is legitimately a godsend for Trump and will make his campaigning easier than it should.

Donna wrote:Your criticism here isn't very practical though. I'm not sure who it is supposed to be directed to. At a certain point you must acknowledge that rioting is a diverse phenomenon and not a conscious strategy on the part of anyone.


It's directed at the wisdom of using this tactic now, where using it can be rather damaging come November. It's not like this case would be over if they didn't, the next President will need to deal with the indictment, trial and verdict - all of those being good openings for future engagements if you think about it.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Your own link says that there is no evidence that this shooting was due to the protesters, and the police chief actually warned against jumping to such a conclusion.


But the conditions for these things to happen do result from the rioting. Indeed, I just heard the major imply so as well.

Now they just closed the downtown area and are going to deploy the National Guard.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Which cops are these?


Cops like those involved in the cases of Freddie Gray (most were acquitted by the grand jury, but the one who wasn't went to trial and ended in a mistrial), Samuel DuBose (mistrial), Terence Crutcher (not guilty)...

Pants-of-dog wrote:There seems to be one about every two years.

And the only time a police officer was charged was when the officer was black and the victim was white.

So it is not that unusual. The only unusual thing in this case is that the police officer is being charged.


Once every two years when we are talking about the 2013-2019 time period and only two incidents occurred and a single case of those two ended with the cop being charged? Aren't you jumping into conclusions a bit here?

I don't think the data allows you to say much either way in Minneapolis' case - if this almost never happened earlier then it's not necessarily evidence of racism that White cops killing a Black person hadn't been charged in the past. It's also not evidence of the contrary since, again, there is little history of this happening. That's my point.

Something more noteworthy is that police killings of unarmed people in general (for both Blacks and Whites) at the national level has been trending down since 2015, although Blacks are still rather over represented in these figures. This doesn't disprove allegations of racism, but it does show that these cases are become less frequent in general and that's a good thing. And can be considered to be a clear victory for BLM, since there's clearly a downward trend beginning in 2015 across the board.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Not really. Often the DA, who works with cops every single day, decides “there is not enough evidence to prosecute” and the case is entirely dropped.


But in the most iconic, public cases, the ones that started BLM, it was a (grand) jury decision not to prosecute what led to protests over those cases. In some cases it's seemingly been due to overcharging, in others it's been due to the DA's actions, in others it's not clear since the proceedings are often secret.

The fact that there's indeed jury participation on the decision to indict complicates things - the issue of how much control prosecutors have over grand jury determinations is a fairly controversial issue on its own right. And indeed, it also means that popular perceptions of the issue at hand may as well play a key role in that - hence what I'm saying regarding about BLM as an important cultural phenomenon, and also why it's not strange that prosecutors want to have a solid case to present to a grand jury (and beyond), why they don't want to over or undercharge and more generally why nobody wants or needs this instance to fail (particularly in this case), even if it means charges won't be filed immediately.

Sometimes DAs are also accused of going way too tough in this charging stage, that is they are accused of overcharging, as a way to be reelected. Because sometimes these cases just happen to coincide with election season for them. I recall that was an accusation against the DA who handled the homicide of Trayvon Martin.

Wellsy wrote:Oh so my impresion is you’re perhaps concerned that I think only violence is the means to such change. When I say illiberal I still think peaceful protests can still be categorized as such as they challenge as status quo and aren’t successful if they stay within the boundaries of what is accepted by the status quo. Civil disobedience and such still was against segregation.

But i think the escalation to violence can often come after the failure of peaceful means although violence versus pacifist doesn’t synonymously equate with organized kr spontaneous either. Some violence is an out burst which isn’t from its origins with a clear aim. And i think it is the spirit of the people and how they set themselves to the task that is pivotal, the means violent or otherwise are adaptable to the situation and ends one aims at.


Hmmm, well, that judgment would (at least in the US) be dependent even on the locality. In the case of the Civil Rights Movement, some Southern localities saw even peaceful protest as subversion indeed but that wasn't so much the case in the North, for instance, and several Northerners would travel to the South over the summer to aid the movement there.
#15096048
blackjack21 wrote:The spinning is beginning...

Minneapolis mayor says 'white supremacists,' 'out of state instigators' behind protests, but arrests show different story

I can believe outside of Minneapolis proper, but the idea that 80% are from out of state is stretching it pretty thin.


He sure sounds a little bit paranoid. It brings a little smile to my face.


This ^^^ and this vvv


They promote this stuff, and then it "blows up in their face" or so we're meant to believe.


I actually work for a living and then engage in recreation. This is my hobby when I find the news too boring. Why aren't you calling for an end to this "black murder porn" thread?


Trump has focused on two things: outsourcing to China and illegal immigrants from Mexico and Central America driving wages down. It has widespread appeal among the working classes for very obvious reasons--even among black workers. It is also not something without a foundation in fact. He's not just making shit up out of thin air. Nobody would believe it if that were the case, and he never would have won. Trump won because, as Ann Coulter put it, he was the only one willing to bend over and pick up a $1000 bill.


The effects of the arrest and restriction of blood flow I would assume.


I'm not making excuses for Chauvin's behavior. I'm saying you have to charge it correctly and prosecute it correctly to get a conviction. I don't know shit about Minnesota law, but in California you get one bite at the apple. That's why Rodney King's perpetrators beat the state charges, even though they were eventually convicted on civil rights charges. Don't kid yourself. The establishment will try to work you into a dither to get this guy off on the charges if they aren't charged correctly or prosecuted correctly.


I don't disagree with you. I'm saying you have the Democrat urban establishment to contend with, and it's not going to change because they will blame this on Trump for political reasons knowing full well that Trump had virtually nothing to do with it.


Yes, a tort would imply a criminal wrong as a matter of gross negligence too.


Dude, quite a bit of the criminal justice system is just plain rigged. However, that's the way the establishment wants it and the electorate tolerates it. Do you think you get a fair trial in traffic court in a first instance proceeding where the judge acts as judge, jury and prosecutor? No. Obviously not.


Well, now you're hitting on why it doesn't get prosecuted, and why it still occurred even after the Eric Garner incident.


Oh, I have no doubt he would have lived had he just been put in the car after being cuffed.


Welcome to establishment politics, and why I no longer consider myself owing them any allegiance.


Yes, because people get off on charges like those made by Pants-of-dog--strangulation, asphyxiation, etc. You only need to make a general charge that you can sustain. Once you get down to the nitty gritty, you have to get it right or it can be successfully rebutted by the defense. So simply saying that the knee on his neck was an unnecessary use of force, induced stress and triggered a cascade of health-related issues that would not have occurred had the officer not unnecessarily placed a knee on Floyd's neck along with some of the officer's substantial body weight. That's all you have to do. You don't have to work yourself into a dither and claim he was choked to death.


If Floyd had not died, the most Chauvin would have faced is excessive use of force. Then, you have to address prosecutor politicians like Amy Klobuchar who let Chauvin off in the past. That's what I'm saying. Instead of focusing on someone who could have, and probably should have done something--namely, Amy Klobuchar--you are focusing on Trump's tweets as though they somehow bear on a local police case when Trump has no police power, in a Democrat run city, in a Democrat run county, in a Democrat run state. You are going way out of your way not to name the political party that is in charge when this stuff happens.

Let me help you out. Here is a list of the mayors of the 50 largest cities in the United States: List of mayors of the 50 largest cities in the United States

Blaming this stuff on Republicans is what Democrats and their media lackeys do to cover their own crimes. This is why it is not going to change, because voters are not going to change. Even black voters who are literally under the boots of these people are going to keep voting for them. That is the Faustian bargain of the welfare state laid bare for you.


It changes what force is allowed in effecting an arrest. In this case, trying to utter counterfeit money is a felony. I'm not making a moral argument here based upon my point of view. I'm just explaining to you how the system works so that you can understand it. It does not justify in any way putting a knee on someone's neck after they are already in hand cuffs.


This is what I mean by not giving in to histrionics. Floyd was not executed. He died as the proximate cause of excessive and unnecessary use of force.


There are no deflections, so there is nothing exposed. I'm pointing out how the establishment gets away with this sort of thing precisely so that they don't get away with it in this case. That is why I won't shut up and neither will many Americans protesting this case.


I don't find it hard. I find it hard that you do not accept that these events happen in places controlled overwhelmingly by Democrats, and they always blame it on Republicans, white supremacists, etc. Let me restate mayor Frey's comment for you:


Really? Maybe people have just had enough with Democrats and their holy-than-thou bullshit, political correctness, cancel culture, wage destroying outsourcing and illegal immigration, and working-class livelihood destroying lockdowns. Maybe those things have something to do with it. Just maybe...


It's not germane to the Floyd case. Trump also said there were bad people on both sides, and there were. He's just not playing the center-left establishment game. Neither am I. What did the establishment want from me in Charlottesville? To condemn the neo-nazis. That's not my problem. That's the establishment's problem. They need to fight their own battles. I'm not doing it for them anymore. What's the purpose of these riots? I'm supposed to come to the side of law and order. It's not my problem that they cannot control the situation right now, and I'm pleased to see their authority getting challenged. I think they are assholes. Did you see me championing their bailouts of big business--either the Republicans or the Democrats? No. Disagreeing with Trump is not going to get me to run into the arms of the establishment assholes. It just isn't.


The late 20th and early 21st centuries are pretty soft times when it comes to Western governments. It was common for riots to be put down with military force. Hell, they even used military force to put down labor unions in the past. I'm not a communist, but even I know that.


I haven't seen an extreme right rally nationwide, burning down cities, etc. When the extreme right becomes a problem for me, I'll be on it. Right now, they are a fringe nuisance at best.


Yeah, but Biden would probably refer to her with a racial epithet at some point knowing how daffy he can be. I just can't see his VP being Amy Klobuchar now, and two weeks ago, I would have given her an 80% chance.


I'm not for restoring the neoliberal/neoconservative cabal. So I'm prepared to live with Trump for another four years.


In terms of what he's done so far, I'd say Trump gets a C-/D+. However, anyone else would be worse. We simply do not have a better candidate that's not going to sign off on the neoliberal/neoconservative cabal.


Well, that's okay. Minnesota is like the American version of Canada. They think a little too well of themselves.


I have no idea how old you are, but I'm a cord cutter and got rid of DirectTV and watch Fubo now. I have a few hundred episodes of All in the Family and Sanford and Son. If you think the US is racist now, you should watch a few episodes of that stuff. Insult comedy wasn't a crime in the past, and people would talk about TV shows at the water cooler the next day in the not too distant past. Today, there is no collective TV experience and it's so sanitized and political that it is just boring propaganda anymore.


These guys will be tried, and we'll see what they say. I don't think there is any excuse for the officer's behavior (especially the knee on the neck), but you may hear one if the prosecution doesn't offer a plea bargain. Some of this stuff happens more often than you think. For example, my buddy was involved in an arrest where the suspect died. The suspect was absolutely unruly after being taken to the station. So the medical orderlies administered the maximum allowable dose of a sedative and the suspect died. Probably sloppy medical work, because they probably didn't test for intoxicants and took the arrestee's statements at face value. When you see absolutely unruly behavior like that, it can be psychosis due to excessive methamphetamine use. That's often the case. However, it can also be a response hitting glutamate receptors due to withdraw from PCP, Ketamine, etc. The latter are downers, and when you see someone psychotic like that, you don't tend to think withdrawal from downers. You think psychometh dude. Administer another downer, and it's game over. It happens. In fact, for a downer like heroin or fentanyl they've removed the need for a prescription for Narcan, because people are constantly overdosing on fentanyl in the streets. Emergency rooms don't want these people, so the system is evolving for first responders to administer Narcan. It's a mighty fucked up world some people live in.


Yeah, try finding anything from sonofnewo now. He laid out probable deep state involvement in Charlottesville and a bunch of irregularities. The courts silenced him as part of the litigation he initiated.


I agree ……. :)
#15096050
wat0n wrote:Maybe, but that doesn't necessarily mean people will have forgotten by then. This is legitimately a godsend for Trump and will make his campaigning easier than it should.

It may also enhance Trump's campaign, but not because people will be so worried about law and order, America is pretty much used to such things happening from time to time, it's rather because his base get energised too.
#15096052
wat0n wrote:But the conditions for these things to happen do result from the rioting. Indeed, I just heard the major imply so as well.

Now they just closed the downtown area and are going to deploy the National Guard.


And the rioting resulted from the killing and subsequent lack of action by the Minneapolis police. So, if you want to charge the murdering cop for this death as well, you have my full support.

Cops like those involved in the cases of Freddie Gray (most were acquitted by the grand jury, but the one who wasn't went to trial and ended in a mistrial), Samuel DuBose (mistrial), Terence Crutcher (not guilty)...


And?

Once every two years when we are talking about the 2013-2019 time period and only two incidents occurred and a single case of those two ended with the cop being charged? Aren't you jumping into conclusions a bit here?

I don't think the data allows you to say much either way in Minneapolis' case - if this almost never happened earlier then it's not necessarily evidence of racism that White cops killing a Black person hadn't been charged in the past. It's also not evidence of the contrary since, again, there is little history of this happening. That's my point.


Since 2010, at least 11 people have died at the hands of Minneapolis police.

https://www.kare11.com/article/news/loc ... 144d9c33e4

That is actually one a year, not one every two years.

And there has never been a white cop charged with killing a black person in Minneapolis.

But in the most iconic, public cases, the ones that started BLM, it was a (grand) jury decision not to prosecute what led to protests over those cases. In some cases it's seemingly been due to overcharging, in others it's been due to the DA's actions, in others it's not clear since the proceedings are often secret.

The fact that there's indeed jury participation on the decision to indict complicates things - the issue of how much control prosecutors have over grand jury determinations is a fairly controversial issue on its own right. And indeed, it also means that popular perceptions of the issue at hand may as well play a key role in that - hence what I'm saying regarding about BLM as an important cultural phenomenon, and also why it's not strange that prosecutors want to have a solid case to present to a grand jury (and beyond), why they don't want to over or undercharge and more generally why nobody wants or needs this instance to fail (particularly in this case), even if it means charges won't be filed immediately.

Sometimes DAs are also accused of going way too tough in this charging stage, that is they are accused of overcharging, as a way to be reelected. Because sometimes these cases just happen to coincide with election season for them. I recall that was an accusation against the DA who handled the homicide of Trayvon Martin.


What percentage of police shootings of unarmed blacks are acquitted by a trial jury? Out of these, how many are all white juries?
Last edited by Pants-of-dog on 31 May 2020 22:58, edited 1 time in total.
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