Should Police be Allowed to Kneel on the Back of Someone's Neck as a Submission Hold? - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Should Police be Allowed to Kneel on the Back of Someone's Neck as a Submission Hold?

Yes
2
8%
No
18
69%
Yes but they should have to stop if the subject becomes non-responsive
2
8%
Other: Please explain
4
15%
#15096165
Godstud wrote:You are trying to apply the exception(even in the case of a felony shooting) to what happened to George Floyd.

No, I'm not. This is a conversation you are having with yourself in your own head. What Chauvin did is indefensible. Rules in this case have to be generic enough that police have the flexibility to function. It's like the court used to say about obsenity--I can't define it, but I know it when I see it. I have heard nobody defending Chauvin. I'm sure there are some out there, but he had no good reason to do what he did. You can apply a general rule, and pretty much everyone can see that Chauvin is wrong.

Godstud wrote:George Floyd was not resisting arrest. If he was, the other 3 officers present would not have been standing around picking their noses.

He was not willing to get into the police car. That does not justify what Chauvin did. You don't need to make a saint out of Floyd to make a demon out of Chauvin. In fact, you don't need to do either. You just need to uphold the law.
#15096183
IMHO there's a lot of fantasies going on here. Sorry that I can't pull a blackjack and snipe each one. You often don't know if someone's a shooter or how dangerous they are ahead of time. So anyone saying that it depends has probably not been in a lot of scuffles.

In the case of George Floyd, he was arrested because he was reported as intoxicated. You don't take chances with a larger intoxicated guy. I think policing would be impossible if these people got their way.

This also brings us to the "Democrat-run cities" argument. Minneapolis is run by Democrats, why didn't they change their rules before this happened? And where is that city headed after these events if they nerf the police on top of the pillaging?
#15096234
Wulfschilde wrote:IMHO there's a lot of fantasies going on here. Sorry that I can't pull a blackjack and snipe each one. You often don't know if someone's a shooter or how dangerous they are ahead of time. So anyone saying that it depends has probably not been in a lot of scuffles.

In the case of George Floyd, he was arrested because he was reported as intoxicated. You don't take chances with a larger intoxicated guy. I think policing would be impossible if these people got their way.


H1 sauce to go with that boot you're deepthroating?
#15096258
Donna wrote:H1 sauce to go with that boot you're deepthroating?

I think you mean A1 sauce? But man I would love to see a place in America that is policed by leftist standards. Weird how none of the Democrats have made that happen yet?
#15096313
Godstud wrote:If police are doing their jobs right, they are not committing crimes while they are arresting people.

There are lots of people who don't like police. Most people are indifferent to the police, depending on their experiences with them. I am indifferent, but I treat police officers with respect, since I know it's a job, and they are people, too. I think this is the same with most people. Criminals, naturally, don't like them, and people who are victimized by them, hate them.

@Tainari88 Being a police officer is not even in the top 10 most dangerous jobs. I did roofing, when I was younger. It's more dangerous.
https://www.graphicproducts.com/infogra ... rous-jobs/

The perception does not match reality, as few police officers are actually killed every year.



Godstud your attitude is the correct one. Most people are not hating or loving cops. They know they have to do the job. Period.

I have had experiences with cops that were very bad and very good. Both. So I take the approach of there are good cops and bad cops. Depending on the individual cop.

The bad experiences have been three separate incidents in which my son being threatened with death by cop for being a black teenager at the wrong place or just by playing basketball in the alley behind our home. Just by doing nothing he almost got killed three times by the DPD. I had to rush over there and de-escalate the situation. Two of them were mistaken identity incidents where they thought he fit some burglary or assault suspect. And one had to do with someone lying due to racism and had to be sorted out.

Another incident also negative was my husband being arrested because his name and DOB matched a fugitive that killed people in New Jersy and they had stopped him for a taillight being burned out on the car and he spend the night in the slammer because they thought they had caught a homicide suspect. When the fingerprints came back they did not match at all. they had the wrong man. Also the guy that killed the person in Jersey, was from another country and was a lot shorter in stature. He was five feet eight inches tall and weighed 160 lbs. My husband is six feet and one inch tall and weighed 205 at the time. So? wrong man. But he spent the night with some nasty smelling drunk dudes that threw up in the cell and he called me complaining. Lol.

Another incident involved car thieves. My mother had come for a visit long ago and she had a Chevy Impala. tan colored one. It needed a new starter and something else. The thieves thought to steal it and they could not. We noticed them and called the police. They did not respond. We found a cop in a car and said, "Two men are trying to steal my mother's car. Can you send someone over there?" The guy yelled at us, "I am on a stakeout, watching a house. I don't have time for your problems right now." they never sent anyone. The thieves got tired of trying to make the Impala turn over and left. But it sort of disappointed me that they did not give a shit. Lol.

I have a lot of stories Godstud. In the end? I will never be a police officer, or a prison guard. I don't like the type of work that is. You have to enforce the law. You also really are not transforming lives in my opinion. You are making sure the society is safe from law breaking and order something like that.

I like doing things with my life that is about helping people in some significant way and that it has do to do with cultural knowledge, something about being able to impart knowledge and to give emotionally and see the changes. That is what I love.

Throwing people in the slammer is not for me. ;)
#15096336
What about the 3 pigs that were looking on while the guy was begging for his mama?

What about the coroner who produced a report that the victim died of underlying health causes? What about the racists who shamelessly argue that all this is fine?
#15096366
Wulfschilde wrote:IMHO there's a lot of fantasies going on here. Sorry that I can't pull a blackjack and snipe each one. You often don't know if someone's a shooter or how dangerous they are ahead of time. So anyone saying that it depends has probably not been in a lot of scuffles.

In the case of George Floyd, he was arrested because he was reported as intoxicated. You don't take chances with a larger intoxicated guy. I think policing would be impossible if these people got their way.

This also brings us to the "Democrat-run cities" argument. Minneapolis is run by Democrats, why didn't they change their rules before this happened? And where is that city headed after these events if they nerf the police on top of the pillaging?


provide evidence that Mr. Floyd was intoxicated.

Also, provide evidence that the majority of cops are allowed to use choke holds.
#15096388
noemon wrote:What about the 3 pigs that were looking on while the guy was begging for his mama?

What about the coroner who produced a report that the victim died of underlying health causes? What about the racists who shamelessly argue that all this is fine?


Should be on trial for gross neglect resulting in death. Otherwise known as manslaughter. I think the dickhead crushing his neck should be the one mainly charged with murder. All he needed to do was lift his fucking knee occasionally so the guy could breathe. That cop is a danger to society.

I'm glad they were all fired.

#15096411
noemon wrote:What about the 3 pigs that were looking on while the guy was begging for his mama?

What about the coroner who produced a report that the victim died of underlying health causes? What about the racists who shamelessly argue that all this is fine?

I really cringe any time I hear the situation discussed and commenters equivocate with statements like 'inaction is complacency.'

I think that to anyone with common sense the following is clear. If I went out with three of my boys and the four of us had a run in with some dude, and one of us knocked him to the ground, knelt on his neck, and held it until he died, while the other three stood around, all four of us would be arrested immediately (or as soon as they tracked each of us down), and we would be charged (probably with murder, and maybe more--they might call it a hate crime, call us a gang, etc.).

It seems self evident to me that this isn't lost on anyone, all the more so to people with more experience of engagement with cops and the justice system (this includes watching the experiences of friends and relatives, as well as those of oneself).
#15104653
I feel that this should answer the question .
,
This is how police should subdue and handcuff a suspect.
P.S. In what might especially be of interest to those such as @skinster , it would seem that such lethal militarized tactics have their origins in Israel .
, https://israelpalestinenews.org/minn-cops-trained-by-israeli-police-who-often-use-knee-on-neck-restraint/
#15104657
Deutschmania wrote:I feel that this should answer the question .
,
This is how police should subdue and handcuff a suspect.
P.S. In what might especially be of interest to those such as @skinster , it would seem that such lethal militarized tactics have their origins in Israel .
, https://israelpalestinenews.org/minn-cops-trained-by-israeli-police-who-often-use-knee-on-neck-restraint/

How about krav maga? Israeli too. Basic rule :Just kill the dude (especially if their name sounds like coughing) :lol:
#15104731
Hellas me ponas wrote:How about krav maga? Israeli too. Basic rule :Just kill the dude (especially if their name sounds like coughing) :lol:

I am not entirely familiar with Krav Maga . From what I have heard about it though , it is a vicious , no holds barred , system of martial arts . One in which practioners are not able to safely practice in sparring competition .
Krav Maga by design stresses efficiency, aggression and, above all, survival. This design philosophy resulted in traditional elements of martial arts practice like forms, katas, and rules for competition, being omitted from Krav Maga training, so in addition to the previously mentioned striking and grappling techniques, Krav Maga also teaches techniques like headbutts, groin strikes, strikes to the back of the head, eye gouges, and throat strikes. All of which would be considered illegal in a sanctioned sport fight or martial arts competition.
-https://www.kravmaga.com/what-is-krav-maga/ , https://eitankravmaga.com/learn-krav-maga/is-krav-maga-a-martial-art/ And lest anyone think me an anti-Semite , the western martial art , Kampfringen , associated most specifically with my primary ethnicity , the Germans , was allegedly largely contributed to by a Jew , Ott Jud. I still treasure it as part of the heritage of Europe , just the same , and feel that it is just as good as Jiu Jitsu , in humanely subduing assailants . You all can see a demonstration of it here .
#15104733
Yes, because its not a martial art like the rest.
It is actual Israeli army combat education. It wasnt created to be taught to civilians. And those gyms who teach "krav maga" they don't teach shit, it's just a more gay like, lightened version of real krav maga made to sell for the public.
If you want to learn krav maga, enlist in the Israeli special forces divisions :excited:
#15104858
Hellas me ponas wrote:Yes, because its not a martial art like the rest.
It is actual Israeli army combat education. It wasnt created to be taught to civilians. And those gyms who teach "krav maga" they don't teach shit, it's just a more gay like, lightened version of real krav maga made to sell for the public.
If you want to learn krav maga, enlist in the Israeli special forces divisions :excited:

I think that an analog to this would be the U.S. Marine Corps Martial Arts Program . A person can only properly learn this mixed martial art , used in hand to hand combat , while serving in the military . However , one may still train in constituent parts , such as especially Isshin-ryu karate , as a civilian , in a dojo .

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