African-American Asphyxiated by Police in Minneapolis - Page 51 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15096574
Wulfschilde wrote:https://dam.tmz.com/document/65/o/2020/06/01/657b9939bb4e46cea274d10f81c662cc.pdf

Medical examiner's report has been released. It says that George Floyd had two forms of heart disease, was on fentanyl and had evidence of recent methamphetamine use. It lists the cause of death as cardiac arrest complicated by neck compression.

Yeah, that makes sense. The cop is at least guilty of excessive force, which will probably lead to a guilty verdict for the third degree murder/manslaughter charge when the jury also sees the video.
#15096576
Saeko wrote:@annatar1914

The people are out of control because the police are out of control. The police are out of control because they never had any discipline to begin with. We must hold the police and government officials accountable FIRST because with great power comes great responsibility.


I agree the police are out of control, but obviously that doesn't mean that "the people" can just do whatever the fuck they want.

There are still real world consequences from the "the people's" actions.



I remember mostly liberal types going hurr-durr you are complaining about the stay at home because you can't go to Applebees or get your hair cut because of the coronawhatever.
Last edited by maz on 02 Jun 2020 05:18, edited 1 time in total.
#15096577
Hindsite wrote:Yeah, that makes sense. The cop is at least guilty of excessive force, which will probably lead to a guilty verdict for the third degree murder/manslaughter charge when the jury also sees the video.

I don't know, the knee on the back of the neck thing appears to be a generic submission hold. A man who did not have two heart conditions while on fentanyl would presumably not have died from it. I would not make presumptions about the case yet but due to the publicity and events, it'll be very hard for the officer to get a fair trial.
#15096578
For those of you who evidently have an IQ in the <80 range: think about it from a strategic perspective.

The police forces are unruly and spread too thin. The President needs to put the fear of God into THEM, first. Then, they need to simultaneously concentrate force and de-escalate by concentrating on the looters only and leave the peaceful protestors alone.

It's not rocket science.
#15096579
Saeko wrote:@annatar1914

The people are out of control because the police are out of control. The police are out of control because they never had any discipline to begin with. We must hold the police and government officials accountable FIRST because with great power comes great responsibility.


Hence my comments elsewhere on all current American ideologies being basically Anarchistic across it's political spectrum, and the need for Statism. There's no question here of two things;

1. political nihilists in the disguise of ''Leftism'' are taking advantage of the situation in order to destroy in an pointless spasm of reactionary violence.

2. This violence has absolutely nothing to do with justice for George Floyd.
#15096580
annatar1914 wrote:Hence my comments elsewhere on all current American ideologies being basically Anarchistic across it's political spectrum, and the need for Statism. There's no question here of two things;

1. political nihilists in the disguise of ''Leftism'' are taking advantage of the situation in order to destroy in an pointless spasm of reactionary violence.

2. This violence has absolutely nothing to do with justice for George Floyd.


Your analysis is completely retarded armchair pseudo-philosophical bullshit.
#15096583
Saeko said it best. This is some real galaxy brain shit.

annatar1914, "leftist" spokesperson for the Trump administration wrote:1. political nihilists in the disguise of ''Leftism'' are taking advantage of the situation in order to destroy in an pointless spasm of reactionary violence.


You are basically regurgitating Trump and AG Barr here. So edgy. Why won't anyone understand your ponderously esoteric Eastern Orthodox sacred socialism that is totally not edgy nazbol chuddery. :(
#15096587
Wulfschilde wrote:https://dam.tmz.com/document/65/o/2020/06/01/657b9939bb4e46cea274d10f81c662cc.pdf

Medical examiner's report has been released. It says that George Floyd had two forms of heart disease, was on fentanyl and had evidence of recent methamphetamine use. It lists the cause of death as cardiac arrest complicated by neck compression.


To put things into perspective.
Artherosclerosis found on autopsy means nearly nothing. Virtually 100% of all of us would have artherosclerosis if you do an autopsy. In fact, autopsy of infants and even fetus might show this as well. I had a profesor of pathology that have made the claim that 100% of newborns have it but I don't have the evidence to back that up. The point is, diseases are an spectrum and what you find on an autopsy might not necessarily have any kind of clinical significance. Same deal with hypertensive heart disease. The degree of severity matters more than the fact that they find evidence of that, after all, chances are we all have evidence of a bizzillion different issues.
As for fentanyl, it is highly unlikely that it had any, ANY play in this. The mechanism of death for opiods is respiratory depression and patient just stops breathing because of this. Now, for anyone to suffer from respiratory depression and cardiopulmonary arrest as a result of an opiod overdose they would have to first be unconcious. You don't lose your drive to breath before you lose your conciousness... it simply doesnt happen. The guy was talking and screaming and supposedly "resisting" arrest. Hardly someone that you can reasonably claim ODed on opiods. That wouldn't be a contributor.

Amphetamines could potentially cause arrhythmias and elevation of BP, in rare cases it could lead to death via various mechanisms (cardiac, strokes, etc). Keep in mind this is rare. Amphetamines is what we use for children with attention deficit disorder... The caveat is that you cannot compare pharmaceutical grade drugs vs something someone might have grabbed from the street that who knows what they might have. Furthermore, it might be hard to prove the time of ingestion/use of any of this. It is highly unlikely that they played a major role, or a role at all in this case.

Just to chime in for general education purposes :lol: . Like I have said countless times, I don't think any of these makes a big difference, maybe during trial it might be a hot potato to try to convince the jury but other than that it does not weight in the facts.

I don't know, the knee on the back of the neck thing appears to be a generic submission hold. A man who did not have two heart conditions while on fentanyl would presumably not have died from it.

Two heart conditions that are ubiquitous and that at least 100% will show evidence of one of them (atherosclerosis) if we did autopsies on ourselves. I think your statement is misleading and/or misinformed.
Last edited by XogGyux on 02 Jun 2020 05:42, edited 1 time in total.
#15096588
Saeko wrote:Your analysis is completely retarded armchair pseudo-philosophical bullshit.


I never expected you to agree with me. But reality is what it is, and it's about to fall on some people like a ton of bricks.

Soon.
#15096589
XogGyux wrote:To put things into perspective.
Artherosclerosis found on autopsy means nearly nothing. Virtually 100% of all of us would have artherosclerosis if you do an autopsy. In fact, autopsy of infants and even fetus might show this as well. I had a profesor of pathology that have made the claim that 100% of newborns have it but I don't have the evidence to back that up. The point is, diseases are an spectrum and what you find on an autopsy might not necessarily have any kind of clinical significance. Same deal with hypertensive heart disease. The degree of severity matters more than the fact that they find evidence of that, after all, chances are we all have evidence of a bizzillion different issues.
As for fentanyl, it is highly unlikely that it had any, ANY play in this. The mechanism of death for opiods is respiratory depression and patient just stops breathing because of this. Now, for anyone to suffer from respiratory depression and cardiopulmonary arrest as a result of an opiod overdose they would have to first be unconcious. You don't lose your drive to breath before you lose your conciousness... it simply doesnt happen. The guy was talking and screaming and supposedly "resisting" arrest. Hardly someone that you can reasonably claim ODed on opiods. That wouldn't be a contributor.

Amphetamines could potentially cause arrhythmias and elevation of BP, in rare cases it could lead to death via various mechanisms (cardiac, strokes, etc). Keep in mind this is rare. Amphetamines is what we use for children with attention deficit disorder... The caveat is that you cannot compare pharmaceutical grade drugs vs something someone might have grabbed from the street that who knows what they might have. Furthermore, it might be hard to prove the time of ingestion/use of any of this. It is highly unlikely that they played a major role, or a role at all in this case.

Just to chime in for general education purposes :lol: . Like I have said countless times, I don't think any of these makes a big difference, maybe during trial it might be a hot potato to try to convince the jury but other than that it does not weight in the facts.


Two heart conditions that are ubiquitous and that at least 100% will show evidence of one of them (atherosclerosis) if we did autopsies on ourselves. I think your statement is misleading and/or misinformed.

Thanks for sharing you medical knowledge with us regarding how old men with heart disease almost never die from fentanyl. I'm routinely awed by the depths and range of your knowledge. I think now I'm going to go out and loot a Target because fuck drumph, even though I could afford to buy out the store, I'd rather just set it on fire.
Last edited by Wulfschilde on 02 Jun 2020 05:46, edited 1 time in total.
#15096591
Donna wrote:Saeko said it best. This is some real galaxy brain shit.



You are basically regurgitating Trump and AG Barr here. So edgy. Why won't anyone understand your ponderously esoteric Eastern Orthodox sacred socialism that is totally not edgy nazbol chuddery. :(


Telling people why they are wrong and foolish is painful to them. It is oftentimes not respected I understand that. Trump is what he is, but more importantly, the ''Left'' doesn't even exist in any meaningful sense and cannot grasp how to deal with him anyway, and you know it in your heart of hearts.
#15096592
XogGyux wrote:To put things into perspective.
As for fentanyl, it is highly unlikely that it had any, ANY play in this. The mechanism of death for opiods is respiratory depression and patient just stops breathing because of this. Now, for anyone to suffer from respiratory depression and cardiopulmonary arrest as a result of an opiod overdose they would have to first be unconcious. You don't lose your drive to breath before you lose your conciousness... it simply doesnt happen. The guy was talking and screaming and supposedly "resisting" arrest. Hardly someone that you can reasonably claim ODed on opiods. That wouldn't be a contributor.

Amphetamines could potentially cause arrhythmias and elevation of BP, in rare cases it could lead to death via various mechanisms (cardiac, strokes, etc). Keep in mind this is rare. Amphetamines is what we use for children with attention deficit disorder... The caveat is that you cannot compare pharmaceutical grade drugs vs something someone might have grabbed from the street that who knows what they might have. Furthermore, it might be hard to prove the time of ingestion/use of any of this. It is highly unlikely that they played a major role, or a role at all in this case.

Just to chime in for general education purposes :lol: . Like I have said countless times, I don't think any of these makes a big difference, maybe during trial it might be a hot potato to try to convince the jury but other than that it does not weight in the facts.


Two heart conditions that are ubiquitous and that at least 100% will show evidence of one of them (atherosclerosis) if we did autopsies on ourselves. I think your statement is misleading and/or misinformed.


They're just trying to set up the classic "He was no angel" defense. Thanks for this though.
#15096593
Wulfschilde wrote:Thanks for sharing you medical knowledge with us regarding how old men with heart disease almost never die from fentanyl. I'm routinely awed by the depths and range of your knowledge. I think now I'm going to go out and loot a Target because fuck drumph, even though I could afford to buy out the store, I'd rather just set it on fire.

You are twisting my words.
First, he is not an "old man"
Second I never said that "almost never die from fentanyl" I just explained to you that the method by which fentanyl actually leads to death is not consistent with the way that this guy died. Electricity kills, but if your brain is blown by a bullet we cannot blame the death on electricity. Likewise, fentanyl can kill but for someone to die from opioids they first need to take enough to go completely unconscious and lose their respiratory drive. We use opioids in the hospital ALL THE TIME, in fact people come to the hospital with heart attacks, clearly, they have heart conditions and we still give them opioids. Having heart disease (and to be clear, we dont know the severity of his heart disease, it could have been minimal and clinical insignificant for all we know) is in NO WAY a contraindication for opioids. People go to have heart surgery get opioids, people have heart attacks get opioids.
The people that die from opioids, they first pass out, and THEN they stop breathing and/or vomit and choke on their own vomit. Question... did you see this guy pass out prior to being arrested?
I don't know if you are deliberately pretending to be dumb to troll or if you really believe that crap.
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