Bernie Supporters not wanting to vote for Biden! - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15097516
Heisenberg wrote:The Democratic Party has been "instrumental" in enabling almost all of Trump's worst abuses, from the border camps to supporting fascist coups in Latin America.


"instrumental in enabling"? Obama built those border camps and as Secretary of State Hillary orchestrated fascist coups in Latin America. Joe Biden was the frontman on Plan Columbia.
#15097523
Donna wrote:Dude, America isn't some accelerationist experiment for the left, the difference between Trump and Biden has a real impact on real people. :)


What does that have to do with me saying white supremacists have always been in Amerikkka? They didn't magically appear when Trump won.

Anyway, just don't join the liberals in demanding leftists vote for the less overt white supremacist.
#15097528
skinster wrote:What does that have to do with me saying white supremacists have always been in Amerikkka? They didn't magically appear when Trump won.

Anyway, just don't join the liberals in demanding leftists vote for the less overt white supremacist.


I'm demanding that leftists vote against a fascist if they want to avoid being labelled as nazbols. :)
#15097621
skinster wrote:Stop demanding leftists vote for evil, even if you think it's a lesser evil. :)

https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2020/06/04 ... he-empire/


Oh boohoo. Little Timmy is having a temper tantrum. You are coming to a tennis match and refusing to play because you are given the choice of using a blue uniform or a red uniform and what you wanted was a gree uniform. Guess what, you don't pick you don't play. And if you don't play, you might not get to choose in the next tournament either if you get disqualified.

Change in politics can either occur gradual or violently. Violent change means death suffering and a significant possibility that it can make things worse (think along the lines of every military coup that switched one tyrant for another). Gradual change is by far less exiting but if constant, it can get you to your goal just as quickly without the bloodshed and uncertainty. The only problem is that you gotta be persistent. A Biden presidency could lead to the first female president as it is a high likelihood that whoever he picks as VP will be in great shape to be the next president. Who knows, that could happen in 4 years rather than 2 terms, Biden is old. This in turn could lead to increasingly progressive candidates.
"Two evils" that are not even in the same ballpark. If Biden is a rude asshole that cuts you down in traffic, Trump is a serial killer.
If you think Biden is bad for a geopolitical imperialistic US, or whatever BS you happen to think now a days, Trump is far worse. We are talking about a guy that does not have a rock bottom, a guy that while running for president was already calling our neighbor Mexicans rapists and criminal, a guy that abused immigrant families by caging children a guy that threaten to shoot the "caravan" if they tried to enter and a guy that actually called the military to assaults his own citizens. If you think he cannot do worse, give him another term and he will be invading Mexico and converting the whole country into a large golf course.

The best reason to vote, is because you can. One day you might lose it to a maniac like him, and that day you will regret that you didn't use it before. Bunch of people keep warning that he might not leave office... everyone is saying this is hyperbole.
Think back and try to remember of every single time people warned that this moron was going to do something terrible, all his stupid followers said "no way, he won't do that" then he does it and they are applauding like the fucking brainwashing sheep that they are. There is a non-zero chance that this guy refuses to leave when he loses and/or if he wins at the end of his 8 years. There is a non-zero chance that his supporters will support that even if we are living in a post-apocalyptic world covered in radiation and eating the bone marrow from the bones of our family members and friends that died.
Keep playing with fire, you will burn the fucking building.
#15097622
Steve_American wrote:
Sir, I totally agree with you, the Dems are a lost cause.
Beren wrote:How are they a lost cause while shifting to the left and paving the way for social democracy? Political reality is that Obama is the one that can form a viable and potent coalition against rising Fascism in the US. Even Sanders appears to accept that, and what's outside the Obama-Sanders galaxy? The big fucking nothing!

Beren, you missed the tone of my post.
The best way to explain it is to focus on the tense of the verb I used; "are" is present tense.
In the present the Dems are a lost cause.
In the past before 1980, the Dems fought for the workers, the mass of the American people, and their families.
In the future, if the progressives are numerous enough to be powerful, then the Dems can stop being a lost cause.
However, right now, with the Primary season functionally over, the Dems are only useful for replacing Trump and holding the line until the Progressive Wave washes over America.

What America needs is a Newer New Deal. FDR was constrained by the assumptions of his time. The main one being that the gold standard was necessary for the currency (dollars) to have value; and therefore, America would get back onto the gold standard somehow. That meant that the national debt could not be allowed to get "too big". [Another being that Black Americans should not be hired by the CCC, FDR could not over come this idea in congress. Now it will be different.]
. . Now after over 40 years of being totally off the gold standard and after the Repuds ran the US debt up to over $24T, with no inflation**, it is clear that the dollar does NOT need gold to maintain its buying power, and also that the US debt has gotten *too big* to ever see the US get back onto the gold standard, until after a total melt down on the economy (for example, after 90% of Americans have died from a pandemic or ACC).
. . I stand by my position that MMTers have been right for the last 26 years, that reasonable deficits forever are the *best* thing. That a US Gov. surplus is almost always a terrible thing. That the limit on deficit spending by the US Gov. is its availability to buy *unused* real labor and real resources. It is never financial.
. . MMTers have worked for 26 years to show that their Job Guarantee Program is a better anchor against inflation than many low income unemployed people. The papers, articles, and blog posts are on the internet for all to see, if they look.

In summary, what the US needs now is not a classical Socialist economy. Those who say this are almost always using the new Repud definition of Socialism. I think that we need to keep definitions for 'technical' terms pure. So, what we need is a full bore FDR New Deal, with the gloves off. FDR called for a job guarantee right in the Constitution, I really like that idea. FDR strengthened worker's rights, we need that again. Etc. Etc. Etc.


. ** . Almost every expert wants inflation to be in the range of 1.5% to 2.5%, therefore I call this "no inflation". Post the GFC/2008 inflation, except in stocks and real estate prices, has been under 1%, IIRC.
.
Last edited by Steve_American on 05 Jun 2020 02:43, edited 1 time in total.
#15097632
“In this, that we are varying the forms of struggle against Kerensky. Without diminishing our hostility to him even by one single note, without taking back one word from what we have said against him, without giving up the task of overthrowing Kerensky, we say: we must calculate the moment. We will not overthrow Kerensky at present. We approach the question of the struggle against him differently: by explaining the weaknesses and vacillations of Kerensky to the people (who are fighting against Kornilov).” -V.I. Lenin
#15097643
skinster wrote:https://twitter.com/NelsonPecora/status/1172381178587828224?s=20


I doubt so but even in that case, wouldn't it make even more sense for the far left to vote for him?

What's the far left's strategy, if any?

(Based on their historical behavior, I highly doubt there's a strategy. They are not Marxist Leninist or Maoist revolutionaries).
#15097671
We are proposing nothing different. Complete independence of the Communist organization and press, complete freedom of Communist criticism, the same for the Social Democracy and the trade unions. Only contemptible opportunists can allow the freedom of the Communist Party to be limited (for example, as in the entrance into the Kuomintang). We are not of their number. No retraction of our criticism of the Social Democracy. No forgetting of all that has been. The whole historical reckoning, including the reckoning for Karl Liebknecht and Rosa Luxemburg, will be presented at the proper time, just as the Russian Bolsheviks finally presented a general reckoning to the Mensheviks and Social Revolutionaries for the baiting, calumny, imprisonment and murder of workers, soldiers, and peasants. But we presented our general reckoning to them two months after we had utilized the partial reckoning between Kerensky and Kornilov, between the “democrats” and the fascists – in order to drive back the fascists all the more certainly. Only thanks to this circumstance were we victorious. -Leon Trotsky, For a Workers’ United Front Against Fascism
#15097779
Donna wrote:[i]“In this, ...
-V.I. Lenin

Lenin had the July days in the same way as Hitler had the Munich Putsch as proof of his revolutionary credentials and as proof of the necessity of temporary compromise. The great strength of Lenin is the same as the great strength of the Bible, you can usually find a quote to justify just about anything.

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