[Tainari88]

I started seeing this documentary and I had to stop. It made me cry and I was so angry I broke something.

How can anyone be this callous and cruel with baby girls? Leave them to die like a piece of shit?

Some fucking asshole bureaucrats heads need to roll!

There are people who want daughters! I WANTED A DAUGHTER! They should let people adopt these little baby girls or have others go in there and volunteer to take care of them properly!

MURDERING SCUM! Then they want to think oh, how come we don't have enough wives and mothers and we are fucked and need to go find women outside our own society? Because you are filthy sexist murdering SCUM! that is why!!

I had to turn it off. It upsets me.

[ness31]

Someone started this thread a few days ago too. Maybe you guys watched the same documentary viewtopic.php?f=114&t=178824

I’m trying my best to be open minded and not fall too deeply into the Hate China Propaganda wheel. It’s certainly one of those things that you pray is exaggerated, but a standing army of all those men...you gotta wonder right

[Unthinking Majority]

My friend adopted a baby from China when they couldn't have one of their own.

I guess when you have 1.5 billion people there's a lot of crazy stuff done to control the population.

[colliric]

Thanks for posting the video I will watch it tonight.

I seem to recall having seen it before, maybe when it was first created back in 1995. It might have gone on the air here in Australia back then.

[Patrickov]

Someone started this thread a few days ago too. Maybe you guys watched the same documentary viewtopic.php?f=114&t=178824

I’m trying my best to be open minded and not fall too deeply into the Hate China Propaganda wheel. It’s certainly one of those things that you pray is exaggerated, but a standing army of all those men...you gotta wonder right

This is probably not an exaggeration, but there are some supplementary points that I think important:

1. The patriarchal element of China is not as severe as, say, Muslim world. Still, in terms of property they have always been Salic. This, combined with one-child policy, was the main reason of girl neglect -- in older times families would simply have more children until a boy survives into adulthood, or the family couldn't afford it.

2. Women rights do not actually go against Chinese ideology like they do in Muslim world. Confucius only said as far as that "(For sovereigns), women and petty people (around him) were the hardest to satisfy", and at least in one period in Chinese history females dominated the political scene. There have always been women in China who are dominant to her spouse or partner, but we only see the "problem" in the male, and do not see the woman problematic (as long as she doesn't abuse her partner)

3. China's problem is a general neglect in part of the Government when they push policies. They are, in general, only after two things: a. Appraisal, and b. the safety of their sorry ass. This can, of course, be catastrophic, and is the main reason behind Taiwan and Hong Kong independence movement, as well as why China has not, and will never, surpass or get accepted to the West if they do not change their ways. But we still need to put things into perspective. At the end, Han-Chauvinism is not as severe as, say, White Supremacy in the West. The Chinese are just plain too lazy and selfish to treat whoever not in their camp fairly.

[Patrickov]

I guess when you have 1.5 billion people there's a lot of crazy stuff done to control the population.

In some sense, the Chinese ate up far more than they could handle, especially after the Mongol and Manchus conquered a vast area in their stead.

[Tainari88]

I can't get through it Colliric. It made me cry too hard. I love children. Innocent babies and toddlers dying of hunger, never being given care and neglected. It is horrific. The state promised to care for them.

It is too close to the shit I had to see when I went to visit kids in foster care and they were fed and cared for, but they did not have a soul in the world to love them.

it is horrible.

And the video is far far worse than that. It is just being callous and horrific.

I am a mother and to think my little boy would not have anyone to hold him or give him milk or rock him to sleep and swaddle him and change his daiper and care for him. They don't require much. Just to be responsible and enjoy their baby ways. It is not hard.

I could not watch it.

[Patrickov]

I can't get through it Colliric. It made me cry too hard. I love children. Innocent babies and toddlers dying of hunger, never being given care and neglected. It is horrific. The state promised to care for them.

It is too close to the shit I had to see when I went to visit kids in foster care and they were fed and cared for, but they did not have a soul in the world to love them.

it is horrible.

And the video is far far worse than that. It is just being callous and horrific.

I am a mother and to think my little boy would not have anyone to hold him or give him milk or rock him to sleep and swaddle him and change his daiper and care for him. They don't require much. Just to be responsible and enjoy their baby ways. It is not hard.

I could not watch it.

This is exactly how far Chinese neglect can go. They do not intend to harm, but they do intend to neglect (these are different concepts).

An they actually take this neglect to general administration.

Considering this, it would be easier to understand why some of us are so resistant to them (especially after that madman Xi Jinping come to power), and actually see the likes of Trump having done something good, despite our agreement that he's a destructive madman himself.

The good thing is, this was very much 25 years ago, and one-child policy has finally ended.

[ness31]

I dunno about the story of curbing the population to stave off famine and disaster hey

From 1979 till present they have bred a very specific army to take on any rival if the technology isn’t cutting the mustard. It appears to be a very calculated, emotionless and psychopathic course of action. That same psychopathy is present in the neglect towards female children. They just weren’t useful to the herd at that time..

I guess they are putting their faith in reproductive technology. I’m astonished at their planning. Someone tell me I’m being paranoid

[Potemkin]

I dunno about the story of curbing the population to stave off famine and disaster hey

From 1979 till present they have bred a very specific army to take on any rival if the technology isn’t cutting the mustard. It appears to be a very calculated, emotionless and psychopathic course of action. That same psychopathy is present in the neglect towards female children. They just weren’t useful to the herd at that time..

I guess they are putting their faith in reproductive technology. I’m astonished at their planning. Someone tell me I’m being paranoid

You're not being paranoid. For the past two millennia or so, the Chinese state has usually been very good at a certain kind of bureaucratism and centralised planning. It goes back to the First Emperor, and even before him to the mythical Yu controlling the floodwaters. In fact, they've been so good at it that the British Empire consciously modelled its Civil Service on the Imperial Chinese mandarin system in the 19th century. Even to this day in Britain, we refer to senior civil servants as "mandarins".

If you study the history of China during the time of the First Emperor, you are getting a glimpse into the future of humanity....

"Nature is ruthless. It considers the ten thousand things as straw dogs. The sage is ruthless. He considers the people as straw dogs." - Lao Tzu.

[Finfinder]

Such a sad story and the type of story that should get more hits and discussion here, than the fake stories and Obama administration photos of illegal children in dog cages

[ness31]

If you study the history of China during the time of the First Emperor, you are getting a glimpse into the future of humanity....

So a quick internet search of this dude will bring you to his clay soldier tomb complex.

I fear if I read up on this gent I won’t be able to sleep at night

[Potemkin]

So a quick internet search of this dude will bring you to his clay soldier tomb complex.

I fear if I read up on this gent I won’t be able to sleep at night

Why do you think the Chinese authorities have never excavated his tomb? They don't wanna meet this guy....

[ckaihatsu]

You're not being paranoid. For the past two millennia or so, the Chinese state has usually been very good at a certain kind of bureaucratism and centralised planning. It goes back to the First Emperor, and even before him to the mythical Yu controlling the floodwaters. In fact, they've been so good at it that the British Empire consciously modelled its Civil Service on the Imperial Chinese mandarin system in the 19th century. Even to this day in Britain, we refer to senior civil servants as "mandarins".

If you study the history of China during the time of the First Emperor, you are getting a glimpse into the future of humanity....

"Nature is ruthless. It considers the ten thousand things as straw dogs. The sage is ruthless. He considers the people as straw dogs." - Lao Tzu.

Here's the reason *why* the state won-out over the bourgeoisie in China, which is the flipside to what happened in Europe:

Cities and states arose after 2000 BC built by people using neolithic techniques. By the end of the 17th century BC metal workers had learnt to combine tin and lead with copper to produce bronze, and aristocratic warriors were using weapons made from it to carve out a kingdom for the Shang Dynasty on the Yellow River in northern China. It seems to have been dominated by an aristocracy that combined military, priestly and administrative roles. It was a class society, practising the sacrifice of servants at royal funerals, but private property does not seem to have developed at this stage.12 Under the Chou Dynasty, from the 11th century BC, kings delegated much of their power to 100 or so local rulers in a system often described as ‘feudalism’ (making parallels with Medieval Europe),13 although some historians claim what existed was a version of Marx’s ‘Asiatic society’, not feudalism, since texts relate that the organisation of agriculture was not based on individual peasant plots. Rather, administrative direction regulated ‘common peasants in their daily life’—not just their work, but also their ‘marriages, festivals and assemblies’.14 The peasant was told each year what crop to plant, when to sow and when to harvest. He could be ordered to leave his winter home for the fields, or to leave the fields and shut himself up in his home.15 In any case, the history of the Chou Dynasty was one of almost incessant warfare between the rival lords.

The Ch’in state could eventually conquer the others because it implemented these changes most systematically. It relied on a new central administrative class of warriors and officials to crush the old aristocracy. These gave the key role in cultivation to the individual peasant nuclear family, allowing it to own the land, pay taxes and contribute labour directly to the state rather than to the local lord.

‘It was the new productive force of the small farmers that supported the new regime’.20

This was a social revolution, the replacement of one exploiting class by another, from above. It was a revolution carried through by armies, which exacted an enormous toll. One classic account claimed, probably exaggeratedly, that there were 1,489,000 deaths during 150 years of war from 364 to 234 BC.21 The last few years of pre-imperial China were ‘a monotonous recital of military campaigns and victories’, with one victory allegedly involving the beheading of 100,000 men.22 The establishment of the empire was accompanied by the deportation of no fewer than 120,000 of the old ‘rich and powerful’ families.23

The transformation was not just the result of the initiative of a few
rulers deploying powerful armies. The changes in technology and agriculture had set in motion forces which the rulers could not control and often did not want.

As the surplus produced by the peasants grew, so did the demand of the rulers, old and new, for luxury goods, metal weapons, horses, chariots, bows and armour for their armies. The peasants needed a constant supply of tools. All these goods could only by supplied by ever greater numbers of craft workers, operating with new techniques of their own, and of merchant traders operating between, as well as within, the individual states. Standardised metal weights and then coins circulated, further encouraging people to trade.

The influence of the merchants was demonstrated when the richest of them became chancellor to the future emperor in 250 BC, was granted land comprising 100,000 households and surrounded himself with an entourage of 3,000 scholars.24

Cho-yun Hsu goes so far as to suggest, ‘In the years of turmoil from the 5th to the 3rd century BC, there was the strong possibility of developing a predominantly urban-centred social life rather than a rural based agrarian economy. Large and prosperous market centres flourished and the urban mentality of profit making…predominated’.25

The German-American historian of China, Karl Wittfogel, argued, while still a Marxist in the 1930s, that there were similarities between China in this period and Europe during the later stages of feudalism almost 2,000 years later.26 China could have been transformed by the merchant ‘bourgeoisie’ into a new society based overwhelmingly on production by wage labourers for the market. Instead, it fell under the dominance of the bureaucracy of the state, which succeeded in channelling the surplus away from both the merchants and the old aristocracy and concentrating it in its own hands. The merchants supported the state in its struggle against the aristocracy, only to see themselves robbed of the fruits of victory by the state bureaucracy.

Certainly, the state repeatedly attacked the merchants under both the Ch’in Dynasty and its successor, Han (from 206 BC to AD 220).

The first Han emperor, for instance, ‘forbade merchants to wear silk and ride in carriages… Neither merchants nor their children and grandchildren were allowed to serve in the government’.27 The state took control of two of the key industries, salt and iron, to ensure, as a Han document tells, ‘the various profits of salt and iron are monopolised [by the empire] in order to suppress rich traders and rich merchants’.28 Higher taxes were levied on trading profits than on agriculture, and the wealth of merchants who tried to evade the taxes was confiscated. During the 54 year rule of the emperor Wu (141-87 BC) ‘the merchants’ properties were forcibly seized by the imperial power. In order to survive the merchants often had to establish ties with the bureaucrats or even the court’.29

Harman, _People's History of the World_, pp. 54-57

[Tainari88]

Such a sad story and the type of story that should get more hits and discussion here, than the fake stories and Obama administration photos of illegal children in dog cages

Traumatizing children (illegal or not) and how illegal are children brought to a nation by adults who take all the actions eh--is never alright by me!!

Never, the state that says yes to caring for kids? They have a duty to take care of them. Feed them, clothe them, provide a warm and clean bed and play area, and have a few hours of interactions and stimulation where they are spoken to and touched and cared for. It is not humane to treat a dog that way! Much less a human baby!

If they don't want the girls just send them to nations and people with families who do want daughters. I would have loved to be the mother of a little girl. I was planning on doing so. If I had not gotten pregnant that would have been in the cards for me. I loved the thought of adopting a little girl from anywhere in the world. But adoption red tape is extremely difficult for many people. And you also have to have a fair amount of money to adopt. There are a lot of expenses involved. The state (PRC) should pay people to help the process along and to help them find people who will take the girl babies in. Or partner up with local organizations facilitating international adoptions.

Letting children die suffering hunger, thirst, neglect, abuse and so on? It is so CRIMINAL. Babies are the most vulnerable humans in the world. They require love and care. Someone to hold them, sing to them, care about their lives and feed them and so on. Babies are very sensitive to moods. I remember my son must have been about a week old and I was holding him and some moving boxes where in the living room badly placed and I tripped and fell over them, and I knew I would hit the floor with my son getting the impact, and I don't know how I did it? But I twisted in mid air and landed on my back with the baby safe at my breast. My husband said a linebacker from the NFL could not have done such a good job!

You have to protect the babies. They are humanity's future. The PRC government implemented that draconian policy and they are responsible for those baby girls lives! They have a responsibility to care for them properly! Those dying rooms are not about Communist political philosophy because Communism is about equality of gender rights and equality in many ways. But the Chinese have deeply class conscious and mysoginistic and female disparaging ways. They changed their awful foot binding practices and they can change the bullshit about only male children are worthy of care culture. Girls are equal and should be treated as such.

If people are too poor to keep the girls? HELP THEM. Don't deny help to people struggling with poverty and need. Hell, Mexico is poor and so is Latin America. No one kills baby girls for being girls. That shit is CRAZY!

I don't like the sexism of discriminating against female fetuses and babies once they are born and sending them to orphanages and dying rooms. It is immoral and unethical!

Do you know how much I would have loved to have raised a little girl from newborn to womanhood? it would have been the joy of my life. And these government callous murdering people throwing away these precious little babies just because they are girls like trash that no one wants!!??

It is disgusting!

[Tainari88]

This is exactly how far Chinese neglect can go. They do not intend to harm, but they do intend to neglect (these are different concepts).

An they actually take this neglect to general administration.

Considering this, it would be easier to understand why some of us are so resistant to them (especially after that madman Xi Jinping come to power), and actually see the likes of Trump having done something good, despite our agreement that he's a destructive madman himself.

The good thing is, this was very much 25 years ago, and one-child policy has finally ended.

They should focus on women's education and programs for supporting women and breaking the thought that women are less than men in value. Do an entire campaign of celebrating the birth of a little girl with a party and gifts and fun and the couple being fortunate to be gifted with a daughter. Give her love and care. A whole community should be responsible.

It should be a big deal!

Change the mindset of girls are less. It is not good for Chinese society at all.

[ckaihatsu]

But adoption red tape is extremely difficult for many people. And you also have to have a fair amount of money to adopt. There are a lot of expenses involved. The state (PRC) should pay people to help the process along and to help them find people who will take the girl babies in. Or partner up with local organizations facilitating international adoptions.

Can't we just let the *markets* decide -- !

(grin)

But I twisted in mid air and landed on my back with the baby safe at my breast. My husband said a linebacker from the NFL could not have done such a good job!

Gonna go to *tryouts* now?


= D

[Tainari88]

Can't we just let the *markets* decide -- !

(grin)





Gonna go to *tryouts* now?


= D

The markets are shit when it comes to social responsibilities.

My instincts when it comes to babies and children is to protect and nurture them. My husband and I have always adored children. Always. He worked at an elementary school for years and so did I.

I love them so much. You abuse kids in my opinion you are the lowest of the low!

Children learn from their parents and their societies and their peers and they are sponges.

You got to be careful how you behave around kids.

Those precious little baby girls? Did you see their little faces suffering neglect? I want to murder whoever is responsible for such callous disregard!

I remember this one little girl I took care of for a week. Long ago. I fell in love with that little girl. She and I got along so great! And I enjoyed her so much....how I wished she was my daughter. She did not get along with her mother who was always a perfectionist sort of person and always picking at her small foibles and mistakes. I never did that to her. I always praised all the good things she did well and just enjoyed her personality.

She knew she would never see me again, they were going to the airport the next day and moving out of state. I only knew her for a week. She told me, "I wish you were my mommy. It would have been so great."

Fucking adults destroying kids Ckaihatsu with their lack of tolerance. I make mistakes with my children. But I am always the first to apologize to them when I do. And I ask for their forgiveness as my equal. Because they are Ckaithatsu. Children are human beings with human rights. They have their dignity and their sense of wanting to be a part of something and they want inclusion and understanding. All human beings do.

How I love little girls so much. And little boys too. I have a little boy. I am extremely feminine in tastes so these male games and toys my son loves to play with? I don't really identify. But I always ask him questions to engage him in his interests.

For me, children are the most precious beings in this world. And to see them mistreated enrages me. It does. I worked at a place where some crazy mom bounced her 11-month-old son off the counter in a fit of rage. I almost jumped over that counter and slugged her she got me so angry! You better not be abusing kids in front of me.

[ckaihatsu]

The markets are shit when it comes to social responsibilities.

I know -- I was making a joke in that direction.

My instincts when it comes to babies and children is to protect and nurture them. My husband and I have always adored children. Always. He worked at an elementary school for years and so did I.

I love them so much. You abuse kids in my opinion you are the lowest of the low!

Children learn from their parents and their societies and their peers and they are sponges.

You got to be careful how you behave around kids.

Those precious little baby girls? Did you see their little faces suffering neglect? I want to murder whoever is responsible for such callous disregard!

I remember this one little girl I took care of for a week. Long ago. I fell in love with that little girl. She and I got along so great! And I enjoyed her so much....how I wished she was my daughter. She did not get along with her mother who was always a perfectionist sort of person and always picking at her small foibles and mistakes. I never did that to her. I always praised all the good things she did well and just enjoyed her personality.

She knew she would never see me again, they were going to the airport the next day and moving out of state. I only knew her for a week. She told me, "I wish you were my mommy. It would have been so great."

Fucking adults destroying kids Ckaihatsu with their lack of tolerance. I make mistakes with my children. But I am always the first to apologize to them when I do. And I ask for their forgiveness as my equal. Because they are Ckaithatsu. Children are human beings with human rights. They have their dignity and their sense of wanting to be a part of something and they want inclusion and understanding. All human beings do.

How I love little girls so much. And little boys too. I have a little boy. I am extremely feminine in tastes so these male games and toys my son loves to play with? I don't really identify. But I always ask him questions to engage him in his interests.

For me, children are the most precious beings in this world. And to see them mistreated enrages me. It does. I worked at a place where some crazy mom bounced her 11-month-old son off the counter in a fit of rage. I almost jumped over that counter and slugged her she got me so angry! You better not be abusing kids in front of me.

Yup on all of that.

[Robert Urbanek]

Thanks for posting the video I will watch it tonight.

I seem to recall having seen it before, maybe when it was first created back in 1995. It might have gone on the air here in Australia back then.

Yes, I suspected the video was that old (1995) because it was in a 4:3 ratio designed for old TVs. China no longer has a one-child policy and now has the opposite problem: parents are having too few children. There are plenty of other reasons to dislike China: digging up a 25-year-old video is a cheap shot.