Who We Are: Racism in America with Jeffrey Robinson - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15105649
Oxymoron wrote:
Yes there are many dumb Jews like Marx.... unfortunately even the Jewish people have dummies.



This is a serious characterization -- how was Marx 'dumb'?


Oxymoron wrote:
As far as working class, well yes (Kind of) and that is why I am staunchly anti Communism... because I know what the Lefties have done
to the working class around the world, and it is brutal.



What does the *working class* have to do with the 'Lefties'?

If the Left has *misrepresented* working class interests then why are you scapegoating the working class -- by being 'anti Communism' -- for it?


Oxymoron wrote:
I rather be a Working class man in Capitalist west then Communist East... my life would be safer,



There *is no* 'Communist East' anymore -- the USSR no longer exists. There's no 'choice' -- it's a *global sea* of capitalism, everywhere, whether one likes it or not.


Oxymoron wrote:
my water cleaner(and running), and my freedom in my own hands. To move as I did out of the working class.

For you point about Nigerians and Jamaicans point well taken.... perhaps I will agree with you it is the Liberal policies that have kept the American black population in chains, its men sent to prisons and their women paid to stay home....



I think you actually mean 'statism' here, as Tainari has been indicating.


Oxymoron wrote:
Not to mention the annihilation of black babies in racist abortions.



Source, please.


Oxymoron wrote:
Tell me what has the left ever done for the American Black population?

You want to end racism, then support capitalism



Capitalism itself *is* racist, because of killer cops, and redlining, for starters.
#15105652
This is a serious characterization -- how was Marx 'dumb'?


He actually thought Communism could work, its like Tolkien believing in Elves.

What does the *working class* have to do with the 'Lefties'?

If the Left has *misrepresented* working class interests then why are you scapegoating the working class -- by being 'anti Communism' -- for it?


Please explain this, I am not sure your point.

There *is no* 'Communist East' anymore -- the USSR no longer exists. There's no 'choice' -- it's a *global sea* of capitalism, everywhere, whether one likes it or not.


Yes I meant when both existed at their primes. Yes thankfully we have a sea of capitalism, and we should fight like hell to keep it.

I think you actually mean 'statism' here, as Tainari has been indicating.


Natural progression "as in Tyranny of the Majority"... Marx and others accepted this concept. They knew to create a Communist state, the State would need to enforce it.

Source, please.


You disagree that Black babies are being aborted in higher numbers?

Capitalism itself *is* racist, because of killer cops, and redlining, for starters.


capitalism leads to killer cops? How exactly?
#15105675
Oxymoron wrote:
He actually thought Communism could work, its like Tolkien believing in Elves.



In and of itself, thinking that communism could work is *not* 'dumb', because it *did* work, but then quickly wasn't given the *chance* to work, because of Western imperialist invasions:


Soviet democracy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_democracy


Allied intervention in the Russian Civil War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_in ... _Civil_War


---


Tainari88 wrote:
Learn some history!! Start with the vast amount of hard Left geniuses in the Leftist Jewish column. You got reds in a big way in the Jewish community and it is not just a couple of them here or there. Lol. :D



Oxymoron wrote:
As far as working class, well yes (Kind of) and that is why I am staunchly anti Communism... because I know what the Lefties have done
to the working class around the world, and it is brutal.



ckaihatsu wrote:
What does the *working class* have to do with the 'Lefties'?

If the Left has *misrepresented* working class interests then why are you scapegoating the working class -- by being 'anti Communism' -- for it?



Oxymoron wrote:
Please explain this, I am not sure your point.



I think it hinges on one's interpretation of 'Leftie' / Left -- Tainari mentioned 'reds', meaning communists, but I initially interpreted the *term* 'Lefties' to mean non-communist *liberals*, or reformers, who *would*, by definition, betray the working class' class interests around the world.


Oxymoron wrote:
Yes I meant when both existed at their primes. Yes thankfully we have a sea of capitalism, and we should fight like hell to keep it.



Hmmmm, you're not recognizing that a global 'sea of capitalism' means that there's no *economic choice*, for *anyone*, anywhere. It's capitalism by default and no one got to vote for or against it.


---


Oxymoron wrote:
my water cleaner(and running), and my freedom in my own hands. To move as I did out of the working class.

For you point about Nigerians and Jamaicans point well taken.... perhaps I will agree with you it is the Liberal policies that have kept the American black population in chains, its men sent to prisons and their women paid to stay home....



ckaihatsu wrote:
I think you actually mean 'statism' here, as Tainari has been indicating.



Oxymoron wrote:
Natural progression "as in Tyranny of the Majority"...



Do you *mean* that the capitalist state ('statism') is the entity that has 'kept the American black population in chains, its men sent to prisons and their women paid to stay at home....' -- ?


Oxymoron wrote:
Marx and others accepted this concept. They knew to create a Communist state, the State would need to enforce it.



You're actually *incorrect* here, since Marx was for the world's *proletariat*, as am I -- the historical fact that Stalin got power and implemented his anti-Marxist, anti-Leninist, so-called 'socialism-in-one-country' nationalist consolidation ('Communist state') was *not* according to any kind of collective working-class plan.

You can always review the original Communist Manifesto.


---


ckaihatsu wrote:
Source, please.



Oxymoron wrote:
You disagree that Black babies are being aborted in higher numbers?



I asked you for a source on this -- *you're* the one contending it, so you may want to provide some evidence for your claim.


Oxymoron wrote:
capitalism leads to killer cops? How exactly?



Well, capitalism needs a certain kind of civil society for it to function on a day-to-day basis, and if people are actively *opposing* this bourgeois civil order, as with protests and labor strikes, then capitalism uses its capitalist *state* (bourgeois governments) to *enforce* the kind of civil society that it requires for commerce to go on. These governments *do not* typically prosecute the cops in their employment, even when the cops commit acts of brutality and killings, against the protesting public.
#15105705
blackjack21 wrote:I'm not stuck on a two party system. I'm registered independent. My point is that the welfare state party is primarily the Democrats, and secondarily the Republicans.

The welfare state exists for a reason BJ. It is there for a reason. What is it? You stated it is to buy votes. Wealthy people form organizations and coalitions to retain power and consolidate it all the time. They also conspire to exclude those from the lower classes and keep they fairly powerless in a very undemocratic process. I know you are against democracy BJ. You are class conscious and you don't really care about Blacks, Latinos, Asians, etc. You don't care. Period. I think you only care about some nationalistic agenda. For me that will always be flawed thinking for all time. Too many people there are in the world who are not from the 5% USA. The world is not about the USA only and never will be. The more inclusion and active knowledge about many people and many cultures and sharing knowledge and sharing traditions and sharing lives? The less people falling into shitty media stories and manipulations. But your lack of caring for me is problematic Blackjack21. It always will be. You care about very very narrow things. Such an intelligent man you are. But unless you add a heart to that? It is as nothing. It really is. The money and the businesses are not what life is about. It is the corazon always.

I will never understand what motivates such love of materialistic gain, greed and also selfish shit. For me that causes the world pain, suffering and untold harm. The naked pursuit of money and power and always at the expense of the weak.


From a Marxist perspective, perhaps. Yet, we don't see nearly the degree of political correctness, speech and thought police, etc. from the Republican party, whereas it appears to be a cornerstone of the Democrats.

I don't agree. The Republicans are repulsive with their class conscious bulllshit, fake Christianity, double standards of everything for the wealthy and nothing for the lower classes, being petty and bloated pieces of greedy trash. I truly hate that party 100% The Party of the present Ku Klux Klan, David Duke and all the rest, the wealthy and the pig like in values. Liars, cheats and total sellouts. Racists and trashy values from hell. I hope that party implodes and loses all party for at least half a century. The cornerstone of the Republicans are extremely dumb people who are arrogant. Nothing worse than an arrogant dumb person. For me they are that and also are causing harm with their warmongering pieces of shit. The Democrats are not much different but they attempt to be 'inclusive'. Lol. Such idiots. Arrogant dummies are the Republicans and super ineffective. You keep shilling for them. I hope they get stomped out of existence forever. The same with those sellout Democrats. But the Republicans are so spineless but not as bad as the passing for Left Democrats. The Democrats have nothing of true principles. The Republicans I HATE for their stupid and dumb racist shitty ways. The Democrats have more intelligent people by far BJ. But evil they are. The Republicans are both DUMB and EVIL to the core. I think that sums them up well.


Well, the other plausible theory for Sanders is that he doesn't win because he is sold out to the banks and corporations--i.e., his political role is to fail.

I don't think he is sold out to the banks. But he is a reformer socialist. Working the system to get moderate gains for socialist programs. He did all that can be done democratically. He is too old to run for a third term. That is why there are many types of socialists. The reformers who choose to work within a system that never yields to common-sense policies and the radical that no one wants to cope with because it gets ugly and you can't run from a fight. From outside the rot and just pushing extremely hard till things break. I think we are finding out the Democratic party is not yielding at all or learning at all. The Republicans though BJ? With their dumb and evil ways are going to wind up collapsing the system they both live off of? I won't be crying. It is a horrible system.

Socialism grows with the right conditions. So? It is about time and circumstances. Let us see where that road takes us eh?

You don't need to, because you just made my case for me. That's why I'm a civic nationalist. It's absurd that a country like the United States does not make antibiotics. It's frankly bewildering, and it took the Wuhan Coronavirus to illustrate that point to the public at large. The media barely touches that sort of thing, because they are funded by the globalists too.

Nothing surprises me BJ. The USA lives with myth all the time. Thinking myth is reality. It is not. The USA has a big inequality gap. It has a big flat wage stagnation problem, it has an idea of foreign culture is a threat, it has a bunch of shit thoughts not based in reality. I am not surprised. It is as a culture? Very non-artistic, non-creative, non-intellectual, anti-intellectual, very moronic on how it thinks about human culture. It is conformist and lacks strong traditions. It is terribly commercial and ahistorical. You are surprisingly ahistorical too BJ. You never study African American history much. Though they are about 13%-15% of all Americans. A very large number. You probably never studied Native American history, and many others....only what you identify with? For me that is dumb stuff BJ. No one has to tell me go and study Irish history. If I thought like you? "I am not Irish. Why should I study that?" Lol. Oh, I date Russian girls and I got to socialize with a 200 word vocabulary and I feel limited. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Learn. Out of sheer curiosity. Curiosity about life and knowledge till you are always pursuing it every single day of your life. But you don't because you are a different person from me darling man. You are not a man who likes to stretch at all. Direct and circumscribed. Never will I be that way. It is anti life for me to be that way. It leads to calcified thoughts without imagination about the future or the present and lack of flexibility. The core of my thinking. As a translator, and everything else. YOU CAN'T be stuck with one way of interpreting the world. You will fail at everything that has to do with human culture if you thought that way. I better stop. It is not pleasant for me to think of you being with that mentality.


Well, I would start to disagree that classical liberals and neoliberals are the same thing. Neoliberals purport to be cosmopolitan, and eschew nationalism. That's a big problem with post-modernism--the world we live in depends on modernism. Corporations are chartered by states, not the other way around.

You don't get it? The corporations have been running the state in the USA. The corporations rule the government in the USA. That is not the case in other nations BJ. And because that is not the case in other places? You either adapt to that flaw and change it? Or the corporations will dictate everything that happens in the superstructure of the USA's society. You see it now. The state trying to respond when they had sold out to the corporations a long time ago and find it hard to get the antibiotics, the needed masks, etc. The corporations rule. Period.

However, they do oppose fundamental rights like freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, the right to keep and bear arms, and so forth. So they are neoliberal, not classical liberal by any stretch of the imagination.

Republicans are assholes. They talk from one side of their mouth and don't give a shit about free speech and etc. Patriot Act one of Bush Jr.'s crappy legislation. It is both parties BJ. I will never buy your theories of it is just the Democrats. It is BOTH. Fairly equally evil crappy racist shit. I don't care what you try to paint. It is both. Punto y se acabo.


That's a goal of the neoliberals. It's hard to brainwash well-informed people. Yet, there are plenty of people easily fooled by ridiculous theories like Russiagate now, because people are conditioned what to think and not how to think.

American education SUCKS. They suck at educating people. When half of the Ph.D.'s are foreign-born and in some professions are almost all foreign-born? The USA is not producing educated people. They have a horrible k-12 system and then it has become an expensive post-high school education system. It sucks. The nation will sow a bunch of nonthinking, nonreading, instant gratification, no attention span foolish people who can't think themselves out of a paper bag. I won't mention names but they show up regularly on here accusing me of reverse racism. Lol.


Right, and that's why people literally vote for the people they are protesting.

They only know this simple formula BJ Republican-Racist rich fuck. Democrat-Black president, gay rights, abortion is ok, let everyone live in peace with some check coming in the mail. Lol. That is the message BJ in a nutshell. They don't get neoliberalism and bullshit. They get, "Republican-racist, white rich fucks in power." The Chicanos barbeque at a park and they say, "White fucks with money who lie all the time. Big business means I never get paid decently." Democrats, "At least there is a sellout saying I can get some help paying my light bill and an Obama phone." Score. Vote for the two-faced liberals! the end of the voting reality is that millions voted for the Hillary woman. But Donald got the electoral college. Since you don't give a fuck about popular votes you argue for it is good. It is not good BJ. the majority think and will continue to think that the racist rich fucks party suck. I will. The Democrats suck so bad that I think the two-party system will be a big awful mess. You are stuck with the Democratic party liberals controlling California for the foreseeable future. It is not a white state BJ. The other issue the USA has is apathetic people and making it increasingly harder to exercise a vote. A combination of apathy, inaccessibility, and Republican obstructionist tactics. Because they know they are holding on to power with less than the majority of the popular votes. Most American voters vote against the Rich, Fucks with Money Party. How long will it take for the American electorate to gain an economic class consciousness? From what I see the far left is gaining. The seats are holding....and gaining one here, one there....over time? It will begin. So? Since the majority of the world is not from that class? Eventually, the progress will be reflective of the many. Not the few. Most people are not you blackjack21. They don't have as many privileges BJ. I don't worry about you that much. You keep repeating over and over again how much more you have in the bank, benefits, property etc. It reminds me of someone who with all their wealth was consumed by envy and wound up destroying their only blood relations in the world because instead of being satisfied with their wealthy existence they only saw what they could never be and resented it. Be satisfied and realize you won't be taking that shit with you. Corazon. The only thing that will be remembered when you die BJ. That and your children. If you were a good man too.

Did you ever study Latin Blackjack? There is vulgar Latin and Classical Latin. Classical Latin was spoken by the upper class in Roman society. People with property and land and slaves and many advantages. The vulgar Latin was spoken by slaves, tradesmen, and ordinary farmers and workers. The vulgar Latin survived and influenced the many languages that sprung from that basic root mother language BJ. The classical Latin faded and became something one studies for museums and no longer is a living thing morphed into everyday language use. Why? Because the commoners survive and influence the future by sheer numbers and the ruling class are always few and are soon forgotten when they lose the wars and lose their properties, and their egos, are small numbers. Small minds. Big egos. Forgotten. That is the reality for culture BJ. It is a reality for civilizations and for the passage of time. I will never respect the tiny small egomaniacs. You can. But I won't (to hell with the egomaniacs they are a threat to decent human societies in human psychology. What the narcissists and the egomaniacs are? Bad news. For all concerned. You love them BJ? I don't. Keep those nightmare personalities. I don't need them. :D


Yet, they arent. Barry Goldwater notwithstanding, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was Republican legislation, Everett Dirksen to put a finer point on it.

No. It was pressure legislation. The pressure to make the protests go away. You have a very hard time accepting that the Civil Rights movement were African Americans organizing along with civic minded Americans who believed in social justice getting together, going to jail en masse and fighting for their rights to overturn racism. Republicans are not anti-racists. They are a big business party. FUCK BIG BUSINESS. They abandoned the equality acts from 1866 to only care about MONEY. They SUCK, will always suck and are not civil rights activists. They are politicians who have to do something because they got BAD PRESSURE that will cost them their seats if they ignored it. Like all pieces of shit sellout, racist fucks do. Oh, Guess we can't sweep this under the rug anymore. And Johnson from the Democratic Party signed it into law. Not because he was a man who wasn't a racist...but because he HAD TO DO IT. Pressured into it. Look at what happened to that Johnson man and the pressure he was under in 1962? Republicans did it without pressure BJ from those Black activists and their allies from the Left of the Political Spectrum? That is a big fat LIE BJ.





She is a Jew.

I think that was a typo BJ. I knew that about her. But I think I typed fast and did not notice that mistake. Sorry about that. Too many 'black American/African American' labels and tokenism from the Dem party on that stuff.


She is the neoconservative version.

She is not Angela Davis for sure. Both of them ironically were raised in Titusville, Birmingham Alabama. Under Bull Connor. Lol. Guess which one I think is a sellout? Hee hee.


Indeed. They redistributed middle class wealth to the underclass to stimulate aggregate demand, and got wealthier by purporting to help the poor. Now they get wealthier by exploiting illegal aliens and pushing free trade policies and accusing anyone who disagrees with them as "racist."

I think anyone backing capitalism like you do and loving class conscious stuff is racist and that includes you. It is automatic in the USA. Especially you BJ. You have dropped a lot of lines that only racists say Relampaguito. I don't lie to myself about you Senor. But, human beings are defective creatures. You are a defective one for sure. Being a racist is a badge of honor you wear in your weary fight against other white liberal racists in the Democratic party. The racism sweepstakes between two unconscious racists with shitty ideas of fake equality and human empathy and lack of corazon. The racist mentality of those two parties are for vomiting really.
Go ahead and think that the white liberals have worn out the phrase and it doesn't mean shit to you. Between you and I love the human species a lot. But that I think you are not racist and are just a nationalist? No. Blackjack everything you are tested on in this forum that I have thought....hmmm. Is he racist or not? You did not pass. It should not bother you at all BJ. I am a woman and not from a group you respect or care about anyway. I respect you the man. The one who is not shilling for some bullshit on PoFo. But the person you are here? No, you got issues with the Irishman @Special Olympian. He is a white man from your same ethnicity (half of it) and you don't like him at all. Why? He is a liberal. Welcome to the reason why you should not be racist. Figure it out. :lol: :lol:


Explain what you mean here. Polemics and legal analysis don't always mix well.

Some humor helps. John Oliver Tonight. He actually cites the racist shit for you to smile at BJ. it is the same shitty codes from 1902 that is used to back up the insular legal codes.
Cue it up at minute 1:44. The Guamanian rep tells you what the racist language was like for justifying denying the vote:





Thurmond the asshole racist from the Republican party creating problems(is he a Democrat with his racist old fuck self? No, he is a Republican. Am I surprised? No. Lol. But the code is about 'lack of Anglo Saxon principles'. Lol. Because only Anglos understand the mysterious inner workings of democracy. A concept rooted in Rome and Greece. Both societies that the Anglos had to be 'initiated' in. Latin culture from Rome has nothing to do with Anglos. But they think they got the civilization by the balls there. Civilization is about a baby coming out of a place it rested in for months getting ready to make an appearance. Balls are just useless like a cow with some balls instead of udders. It is a joke. Lol. :lol:


Oh boy. You're not another victim of the 3/5ths Compromise meme that says whites considered blacks to be only 3/5ths human are you?

Are you being a fool and denying the legal codes now of what is written into law to justify the lack of full and legal human being a complete human being equal under the law? No, Blackjack, you keep living in denial where the colorism and crazy ideas about if Africans were considered property or not? Ever existed. Whatever. And I don't care about your broken record shit about the Democrats did it, the Democrats did it. Like if I believe your bullshit. I don't BJ. It is sheer bull. Just acknowledge, "Yes slavery happened. Yes, they were property, yes Jim Crow, yes they had to organize and march and pressure the government. The White racist fuck men were in positions of power for hundreds of years and until the Black people started a hard pressure campaign after the end of WWII, change was not happening in either party. They were happy letting the Blacks be in limbo and terrified of staying in those lynching states. That is why they moved to Oakland, CA, Los Angeles, CA and so on....because Mississippi wasn't tolerant." To hell with those cheap excuses of yours BJ. Pressure works. :D

As for pressure? Women got the right to vote. They were not allowed to vote. Black people, Native people, and many others. My people? No. You don't care. because you don't. For that I find you horrible in many many ways. Unable to care. It is bad. But not surprising for me. It is what a bunch of nationalistic from the right people do. I don't care. Only these I care. Fuck that. It is a horrible reality.

Yes. So were women and children.


Because the people in power were the ones doing it: Democrats. Why are there so few arrests with the current rioters? It's because the Democrats ginned up the riots themselves.
Broken record. Both ineffective parties. You keep with your constant broken record. My reply from now on. Republicans are the rich racist fucks with money you identify with BJ. Shilling for the RWRF. Rich, White, Racist, Fucks again.


What civil rights do you think Reagan or the Bushes opposed? I think George H.W. Bush was also opposed to the Civil Rights Act of 1964 when he was a congressman because he thought it was unconstitutional.

He was opposed to it because he is a racist fuck. Part of the Repuke party line. That is why. Lol. Unconstitutional like what the insular cases? A bunch of hypocritical low lives. That is the explanation. Imperialism and low life politicians. What else is new?


Well, that's what the Insular Decisions were all about--the debate over whether the US could hold territory as sovereign. It's not unconstitutional as such, but it is contradictory to the founding principles of the United States. I will give you that.

No, BJ, you don't give me shit. I expect you to back murderers and violent pigs who will kill me for opposing them. That is what I expect from you. I would never back anyone who would harm you BJ. That is what I think. End of that thought. It is about justice. Not legal minute crap invented to deny millions of people rights. Human rights. I respect human rights. Not what you are willing to give me. Fuck that and its lack of morality.


Well, a sort of proto-capitalism, mercantilism.

It is for profit bullshit.


Sure you can. In many respects, the Wuhan Coronavirus shows you can go back in time in terms of global travel for example. You can literally shut it off for 98% of the people, and life goes on.

Life goes on. There is a bubonic plague outbreak in a town outside of Beijing. We are connected by these nature based things. And because of us being connected hundreds of thousands of people will die and millions will die. Connection. Regardless of travel or not. You are a retrograde thinker.


That's because illegal aliens can't get welfare, and legal aliens don't want to remain underclass. Welfare is a trap. It makes people dependent on the state. Why? So they won't overthrow it. They won't bite the hand that feeds them.

And living without it is great? Welcome to Latin America BJ. No welfare states. Do we have a lot of overthrown not happy with the Racist Rich Fuck governments? No. So overthrowing is the answer. But we got the Yankees to applaud for not supporting the legit overthrows. because the only thing that is important is that the rich stay in power. And that the poor don't get welfare and accept it passively. I don't think so. That is not how human history works. The sooner people understand that the better off we will all be.


They can stop it. They choose not to. The US didn't always have this issue. The establishment just figured out a new game. It is deeply cynical. If you oppose exploitation, they call YOU "racist."

You don't do shit BJ. I am unconvinced about how dedicated you are to fighting for living wages and caring about the underclass or how you don't identify with the working class. I think you are a total not dedicated man about those principles. Again...the video? La droit doesn't care about 'egalite' it cares about
small government and some selfish petty libertarianism BJ. La gauche is not that and never will be. Egalite or 'la morte' for me. Lol.


From around 1920 to around 1965, the US did not allow much immigration at all. Why? Too many socialists were coming to the US, and Wilson feared revolution. They should be getting fearful of that now.

The Latinos are with socialist tendencies especially the lower classes. My kind of people. Lol. I am happy. :D


That's a European proposal, because Europeans cheat on their taxes too. That's why they have VAT as well. The problem with VAT is that it favors vertical integration, which can be inefficient.

Yes and so? Lol.


I think Trump is a pussycat that just talks tough. He didn't fire Sally Yates until she was insubordinate. I would have fired her on day one.

He is a fool that doesn't notice things because he is too busy tweeting out nonsense at 3am like Pelosi woman's dentures and bullshit that a bobblehead pendejo writes about. You should concentrate on finding a Betty Crocker. But there will be hard to find in the Liberal mecca. For sure. :D


That's a big part of why people like him.

I think he is a piece of shit. End of story for me. I don't like him. :D

Is that what you think? Or is that what you want me to think? Trump has made quite a bit of money in real estate and in the entertainment business. His TV show, The Apprentice, was making him $50M a year. You may consider that a failure, but when you make more in a year than most people will make in their entire lives, it's reasonable to accede to their success. Almost every entrepreneur has tasted business failure. I certainly have. It sucks. However, I don't consider myself a failure in general because I failed a few times.

Blackjack21? What is my relationship to you? Debating partner with an almost opposite point of view to mine. I don't care if you are rich or poor, have success, or not in some business BJ. I don't care. I only care about your arguments. And if you are faithful to your principles here. That is it. I also care about you as a human being. Because I spent a lot of time reading your replies over the years. I don't share your values at all. I don't care about being successful monetarily. I never have. I have another set of values than yours and will die with those intact. In the end? Know thyself and to thine own self be true. If you are happy with your materialism and money and success and rat race and coding and no children and so on? And you can be happy with what you got? Who cares what I think? At the end of your life, it is about YOU? Not me. Did you change in time to be happy with your choices in life? Period. I would never say to you? I don't care about you as a human being. I find the callous shit repulsive. I always will. That is I. You are you and I am I. El fin.


Which I think is a good thing.
Whatever.


Why does this worry you about Trump when Obama and Bush demonstrated far, far worse behavior? I mean, it's not even close.

Read his thoughts. He has mentioned becoming president and going to war for a very long time. He spends a lot of money on the military. He sucked as a military lover...he doesn't cut the mustard with Mattis or many others in the military culture. He doesn't understand it but is aching to use it to exercise power and control over these men who shun him. He is disturbed. Bush and Obama were war people. But the USA is about that. It always has been. I never approve. No, I don't trust him at all BJ. You kiss his ass. I never will.


Well, in general, you should not put your trust in politicians of any stripe--especially the ones you agree with. You should try to understand what motivates them. I think at a gut level, Trump personally feels disgust with violence. He's far more circumspect about the use of military force than Obama or Bush. Think about Trump's nixed retaliation for Iran shooting down a drone. He decided it was not a proportionate response. When is the last time you heard a president of the US cancelling a retaliation, because he thought it wasn't proportionate? It's frankly unheard of. Yet, that's what Trump did. That suggests that he does have more ethics than you give him credit for. Again, I'm not saying you should like Trump, but you should try to be a bit more fair in your assessment.

Blackjack21 He is deeply immoral, unethical, slimy and greedy and a pathological liar. That is enough for me. Maybe not for you to not kiss his ass. I find him repulsive. But again, I have good taste in men. And he is not a man of my taste eh? Leave it at that. You are the one who needs to stop being so skewed with a broken record about some stale and predictable Democratic right wing pro capitalistic ass-kissing to $$$ liberals. Be fair to them. They are not as bad as Trump. LOL. See how irritating you sound to me? :lol:

Most people wouldn't consider the early experience of the Irish in the US "white privilege." Do you know that some Irish revolted against the US in the Mexican-American War? Saint Patrick's Battalion. They fought with Catholics against Protestants

I know that BJ. I studied Mexican history. They have a plaque of them in Mexico City. The Mexicans are always remembering history. They got long memories.

However, the Irish were enslaved--not in the US--in the West Indies.

They also were sent out to get a Census of Puerto Rico to report back to the Spanish Crown. Example Alejandro O'Reilly.


My grandmother came in 1919.

But somehow you have more right to being an American than a Mexican does? Whatever. I don't believe it.


Many meaning more than one. However, most Southerners were not slave owners. Very few people could afford to own slaves.
No, they could not. Thus why the divide and conquer tactics were necessary to deal with that threat in the 1600s BJ.

Yes, you identify with the landed gentry. The upper crust. This is why I find Americans very bad at class consciousness. The Irish granny in 1919 was not wealthy or from the Irish landed class and gentry. But somehow that is all forgotten because now.....somehow being from the lower classes doesn't mean identifying with them when you can be a ruling class person in a land with no memory. That kind of shit is horrible. But it is yours.


Many of them are Welsh surnames. A good number of blacks have my surname, which is English but more specifically Cambro-Norman or considered Welsh also.

I don't know your surname at all.


Precisely, which is why so many people are offended by the notion of "white privilege."


I don't care how offended people are about the words used by liberals and so on types in the Democratic Party BJ. I think political correctness had created so much resentment among people who just wanted to be able to be plain in speech that it became a thing to combat in all ways. I find it horrible in general.

Your last few lines marks you as a person unable to be fair. And unable to acknowledge a perspective that is about dealing with others who are not the ones running the show. You somehow identify with Trump?

I never will.

You will never be about equality or justice. And you think it best to isolate. I find you a person who is going to be dealing with things that are hard to tolerate for you.

Oh uh, a friend who is 21 years old and an unemployed due to Covid 19 hotel chef is calling me to dinner. He has no food but I got food and I traded and told him, "If you cook? I buy the food?" He said yes. Time to eat. Will be back to deal with these statements of yours. You are uncaring about people BJ. When will you get a corazon? Time is running out.
#15105777
Oxymoron wrote:Yes there are many dumb Jews like Marx.... unfortunately even the Jewish people have dummies.
As far as working class, well yes (Kind of) and that is why I am staunchly anti Communism... because I know what the Lefties have done
to the working class around the world, and it is brutal. I rather be a Working class man in Capitalist west then Communist East... my life would be safer,
my water cleaner(and running), and my freedom in my own hands. To move as I did out of the working class.

For you point about Nigerians and Jamaicans point well taken.... perhaps I will agree with you it is the Liberal policies that have kept the American black population in chains, its men sent to prisons and their women paid to stay home.... Not to mention the annihilation of black babies in racist abortions. Tell me what has the left ever done for the American Black population?

You want to end racism, then support capitalism


No capitalism requires owners and non owners for power relationships. It is based on property rights. You would know this. So capitalism has racism as a pre-requisite because racism has to have a very large exploitable class of people from all over the world in order to survive.

You did not know the history of what happened with the African Americans did you? It is an unknown history to you. Why? Because you are living in a society that is not honest about its own history. It lies. To make itself justified in its lack of justice.

You lost the argument. Marx was not dumb. Not even the biggest capitalists of all time would ever call him dumb. So I must conclude you have nothing to offer for intelligent debate. You can go lick your wounds at having lost due to ignorance.

But ignorance and loving capitalism while being poor and working class is the epitome of living in an Oxymoron or contradiction. You picked an appropriate screename.

Losers with loser arguments. They all showed up in this thread on racism. :lol: :lol:
#15105783
America's communists keep egging on America's blacks about their supposed grievances because they don't live in communism, even though welfare blacks are the closest anyone has ever gotten to having everything paid for them, and it's been a disaster for them.
#15105787
Oxymoron wrote:Excuses, lame ones actually....look at his face he doesn't even want to entertain the idea of what the other guy was telling him. That is not an honest conversation, that is judgemental. So many obstacles to the black people.... even though Jamaicans and Nigerians are the fastest rising immigrant groups in the US, making higher wages then average white people.. so spare me your weak minded chip on your shoulder bull shit.

The man on the video is fully embracing the Noble Victim Role. Any psychologist will attest that embracing victimhood is not healthy.
#15105817
What Black people in Mississippi had to fight to lead lives of dignity.

Take responsibility for this inhumane crap of racism. Take responsibility and you will make progress. Deny and it won't go away folks.

#15105819
Wulfschilde wrote:America's communists keep egging on America's blacks about their supposed grievances because they don't live in communism, even though welfare blacks are the closest anyone has ever gotten to having everything paid for them, and it's been a disaster for them.


Would you want to be a black man or woman in Louisville, Mississippi with all that nastiness? Tell the truth?

You see the problems with people like you is a lack of empathy of what other groups go through. You can only care about yourself and your group. That is the reason these racists get away with it so long. Too many selfish people who don't care. Care. Because if you don't get involved? The problem doesn't go away.

The protests continue, you lose everything. Keep in denial and lose everything.
#15106046
blackjack21 wrote:
That's because illegal aliens can't get welfare, and legal aliens don't want to remain underclass. Welfare is a trap. It makes people dependent on the state. Why? So they won't overthrow it. They won't bite the hand that feeds them.



Tainari88 wrote:
And living without it is great? Welcome to Latin America BJ. No welfare states. Do we have a lot of overthrown not happy with the Racist Rich Fuck governments? No. So overthrowing is the answer. But we got the Yankees to applaud for not supporting the legit overthrows. because the only thing that is important is that the rich stay in power. And that the poor don't get welfare and accept it passively. I don't think so. That is not how human history works. The sooner people understand that the better off we will all be.



Wulfschilde wrote:
America's communists keep egging on America's blacks about their supposed grievances because they don't live in communism, even though welfare blacks are the closest anyone has ever gotten to having everything paid for them, and it's been a disaster for them.



Julian658 wrote:
The man on the video is fully embracing the Noble Victim Role. Any psychologist will attest that embracing victimhood is not healthy.



Here's the *real* welfare, for 'the economy', benefitting those of the nationalist ownership class:



The Act is based on tax reform advocated by congressional Republicans and the Trump administration.[7] The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) reported that under the Act individuals and pass-through entities like partnerships and S corporations would receive about $1,125 billion in net benefits (i.e. net tax cuts offset by reduced healthcare subsidies) over 10 years, while corporations would receive around $320 billion in benefits. The CBO estimates that implementing the Act would add an estimated $2.289 trillion to the national debt over ten years,[8] or about $1.891 trillion after taking into account macroeconomic feedback effects, in addition to the $9.8 trillion increase forecast under the current policy baseline and existing $20 trillion national debt.[9]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Cuts_ ... ct_of_2017
#15106061
Chaikatsu wrote:Here's the *real* welfare, for 'the economy', benefitting those of the nationalist ownership class:

Keeping the money you earn is not a subsidy or "welfare". Welfare is receiving a disbursement from the government.

Tainari88 wrote:Time is running out.

Part of why time is running out is that it is very difficult to respond to your undifferentiated text replies--let's call them your "reply bombs." Your quotes of mine should look like this:

Code: Select all[quote="blackjack21"]Something utterly brilliant and logical[/quote]
Relampaguito, you have no  heart. [b]This is so terrible![/b]

[quote="blackjack21"]Something cynical, but realistic.[/quote]
See Relampaguito, you believe in classes and races, and terrible things like that.

[quote="blackjack21"]Something flippant and comical[/quote]
Oh relmpaguito... [b](something in Spanish)[/b], when will you get Corazon?


I think you are probably using the quote button and getting all my text in a quote and then responding inline, so that it looks like this:

Code: Select all[quote="blackjack21"]Something utterly brilliant and logical

Relampaguito, you have no  heart. [b]This is so terrible![/b]

Something cynical, but realistic.

See Relampaguito, you believe in classes and races, and terrible things like that.

Something flippant and comical

Oh relmpaguito... [b](something in Spanish)[/b], when will you get Corazon?[/quote]

While I can type fast, I find it difficult to reply to your posts at times because I have parse out what you wrote from what I wrote. Unfortunately, I'm a bit busy today, so I will again have to dig back in the posts to reply to you when I get some spare cycles.
Last edited by blackjack21 on 08 Jul 2020 23:11, edited 1 time in total.
#15106066
blackjack21 wrote:
Keeping the money you earn is not a subsidy or "welfare". Welfare is receiving a disbursement from the government.



As I mentioned to Local Localist on the other thread, I'll mention to you as well -- any treatment of political economy that only addresses the *economics* aspect itself is an artificially *limited* treatment. We *must* look at *power relations* alongside the economic dynamics.

Regarding your statement I'll introduce that *all* business in the U.S. / West benefits *tremendously* from colonization / imperialism, over the rest of the world (Africa, Latin America, Asia).

Lenin identified 'super-profits' accruing through imperialist economic power relations:



Summary

In his Prefaces, Lenin states that the First World War (1914–1918) was "an annexationist, predatory, plunderous war"[2] among empires, whose historical and economic background must be studied "to understand and appraise modern war and modern politics".[3]

In order for capitalism to generate greater profits than the home market can yield, the merging of banks and industrial cartels produces finance capitalism and the exportation and investment of capital to countries with underdeveloped economies is required. In turn, such financial behaviour leads to the division of the world among monopolist business companies and the great powers. Moreover, in the course of colonizing undeveloped countries, business and government eventually will engage in geopolitical conflict over the economic exploitation of large portions of the geographic world and its populaces. Therefore, imperialism is the highest (advanced) stage of capitalism, requiring monopolies (of labour and natural-resource exploitation) and the exportation of finance capital (rather than goods) to sustain colonialism, which is an integral function of said economic model.[4][5] Furthermore, in the capitalist homeland, the super-profits yielded by the colonial exploitation of a people and their economy permit businessmen to bribe native politicians, labour leaders and the labour aristocracy (upper stratum of the working class) to politically thwart worker revolt (labour strike).



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperiali ... Capitalism



---


Also, who's to say *how much* of the private sector should be appropriated by the bourgeois state, for general public use? You're obviously not objecting to *taxation* itself, on businesses, so the remainder is the variable of *to what degree*. Here's a historical *precedent*, of sorts:



The Revenue Act of 1935, 49 Stat. 1014 (Aug. 30, 1935), raised federal income tax on higher income levels, by introducing the "Wealth Tax".[1] It was a progressive tax that took up to 75 percent of the highest incomes (over $1 million per year.).[2] The Congress separately also passed new taxes that were regressive, especially the Social Security tax.

It was signed into law by President Franklin D. Roosevelt over strong opposition from business, the rich, and conservatives from both parties. The 1935 Act also was popularly known at the time as the "Soak the Rich" tax.[3] To solve the problem of tax evasion through loopholes, the Revenue Act of 1937 revised tax laws and regulations to increase the efficacy of the tax.[2]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenue_Act_of_1935
#15106146
In and of itself, thinking that communism could work is *not* 'dumb', because it *did* work, but then quickly wasn't given the *chance* to work, because of Western imperialist invasions:


Soviet democracy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_democracy


Allied intervention in the Russian Civil War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_in ... _Civil_War


The "Democracy" was soon subverted by the most leftist of the leftist, and who ever wasn't Communist enough was shot.
Second point the western intervention in the Russian Civil war did not prevent Communists from winning...


I think it hinges on one's interpretation of 'Leftie' / Left -- Tainari mentioned 'reds', meaning communists, but I initially interpreted the *term* 'Lefties' to mean non-communist *liberals*, or reformers, who *would*, by definition, betray the working class' class interests around the world.


To me liberals are useful idiots unwittingly helping the commie criminals.

Hmmmm, you're not recognizing that a global 'sea of capitalism' means that there's no *economic choice*, for *anyone*, anywhere. It's capitalism by default and no one got to vote for or against it.


Capitalism by default offers you a economic choice, and capitalism by default offers people freedom... voting is not the ultimate freedom, having a right to your own belongings is.

Do you *mean* that the capitalist state ('statism') is the entity that has 'kept the American black population in chains, its men sent to prisons and their women paid to stay at home....' -- ?

Slavery is not capitalist.... it is more related to Monarchy and feudalism. No the liberals who are the tools of the Commies, created those conditions and have nothing to do with capitalism.

ou're actually *incorrect* here, since Marx was for the world's *proletariat*, as am I -- the historical fact that Stalin got power and implemented his anti-Marxist, anti-Leninist, so-called 'socialism-in-one-country' nationalist consolidation ('Communist state') was *not* according to any kind of collective working-class plan.

You can always review the original Communist Manifesto.


I read it and he fought many other lefties of the time who wanted to work within the system, rather he advocated for the destruction of the states. Then he advocated for building Communism by any means needed, meaning they needed centralized control...thus needed a communist state.

I asked you for a source on this -- *you're* the one contending it, so you may want to provide some evidence for your claim.


I am asking you a question simply, can you answer it?
#15106152
No capitalism requires owners and non owners for power relationships. It is based on property rights. You would know this. So capitalism has racism as a pre-requisite because racism has to have a very large exploitable class of people from all over the world in order to survive.

Ummm no that is a strawman argument....


You did not know the history of what happened with the African Americans did you? It is an unknown history to you. Why? Because you are living in a society that is not honest about its own history. It lies. To make itself justified in its lack of justice.


I know African American history... don't act like a professor; calm your self.

You lost the argument. Marx was not dumb. Not even the biggest capitalists of all time would ever call him dumb. So I must conclude you have nothing to offer for intelligent debate. You can go lick your wounds at having lost due to ignorance.


He was not dumb if he wrote fiction, but he actually thought it could work so he is dumb as they com.

But ignorance and loving capitalism while being poor and working class is the epitome of living in an Oxymoron or contradiction. You picked an appropriate screename.


I am not poor..... and i moved from the working class.... by working hard and using capitalism to better myself.

Losers with loser arguments. They all showed up in this thread on racism.


Losers are those who keep doing the same thing and expecting different results.... similar how you think Communism can work.
#15106167
Oxymoron wrote:
The "Democracy" was soon subverted by the most leftist of the leftist,



No, it was 'subverted' by the White counterrevolution.

Who was 'the most leftist of the leftist', exactly?


Oxymoron wrote:
and who ever wasn't Communist enough was shot.



Are you referring to Stalin?


Oxymoron wrote:
Second point the western intervention in the Russian Civil war did not prevent Communists from winning...



Well, sure, they 'won', but the economy was in tatters as a result of fighting off the counterrevolutionaries, and Lenin had to *backslide* quite a bit, sacrificing the historically-progressive political gains -- he did 'War Communism' and then the 'New Economic Policy'.


---


ckaihatsu wrote:
I think it hinges on one's interpretation of 'Leftie' / Left -- Tainari mentioned 'reds', meaning communists, but I initially interpreted the *term* 'Lefties' to mean non-communist *liberals*, or reformers, who *would*, by definition, betray the working class' class interests around the world.



Oxymoron wrote:
To me liberals are useful idiots unwittingly helping the commie criminals.



Well *that's* kinda harsh -- how, exactly, are commies (like myself) 'criminals' -- ? (Hindsite said that BLM and Antifa were 'terrorists', but provided no evidence for such facile name-calling.)

I won't speak to the 'liberals' part, but they're certainly closer to being nationalists than *I* am.


Ideologies & Operations -- Fundamentals

Spoiler: show
Image



---


Oxymoron wrote:
Capitalism by default offers you a economic choice, and capitalism by default offers people freedom... voting is not the ultimate freedom, having a right to your own belongings is.



I'll take the 'right to my own belongings' part, *and* I'd like to have a vote over what mode-of-production prevails throughout the world. I vote for workers-of-the-world socialism.


Oxymoron wrote:
Slavery is not capitalist.... it is more related to Monarchy and feudalism. No the liberals who are the tools of the Commies, created those conditions and have nothing to do with capitalism.



You're in luck -- I just found the following excerpt *today*, for another thread:



Economics of slavery

In France in the 18th century, returns for investors in plantations averaged around 6%; as compared to 5% for most domestic alternatives, this represented a 20% profit advantage. Risks—maritime and commercial—were important for individual voyages. Investors mitigated it by buying small shares of many ships at the same time. In that way, they were able to diversify a large part of the risk away. Between voyages, ship shares could be freely sold and bought.[112]

By far the most financially profitable West Indian colonies in 1800 belonged to the United Kingdom. After entering the sugar colony business late, British naval supremacy and control over key islands such as Jamaica, Trinidad, the Leeward Islands and Barbados and the territory of British Guiana gave it an important edge over all competitors; while many British did not make gains, a handful of individuals made small fortunes. This advantage was reinforced when France lost its most important colony, St. Domingue (western Hispaniola, now Haiti), to a slave revolt in 1791[113] and supported revolts against its rival Britain, in the name of liberty after the 1793 French revolution. Before 1791, British sugar had to be protected to compete against cheaper French sugar.

After 1791, the British islands produced the most sugar, and the British people quickly became the largest consumers. West Indian sugar became ubiquitous as an additive to Indian tea. It has been estimated that the profits of the slave trade and of West Indian plantations created up to one-in-twenty of every pound circulating in the British economy at the time of the Industrial Revolution in the latter half of the 18th century.[114]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_ ... of_slavery




Oxymoron wrote:
I read it and he fought many other lefties of the time who wanted to work within the system, rather he advocated for the destruction of the states. Then he advocated for building Communism by any means needed, meaning they needed centralized control...thus needed a communist state.



Sorry, but the original plan ('Communist Manifesto') wasn't 'All-power-to-Joseph-Stalin', it was 'All power to the soviets', or workers councils. There was no 'State of Commies', and I challenge you to *find* one historically.


---


Oxymoron wrote:
Not to mention the annihilation of black babies in racist abortions.



ckaihatsu wrote:
Source, please.



Oxymoron wrote:
You disagree that Black babies are being aborted in higher numbers?



ckaihatsu wrote:
I asked you for a source on this -- *you're* the one contending it, so you may want to provide some evidence for your claim.



Oxymoron wrote:
I am asking you a question simply, can you answer it?



You're not giving me any *information*, so I have nothing to go by. How did *you* find out about this alleged phenomenon?
#15106196
blackjack21 wrote:Keeping the money you earn is not a subsidy or "welfare". Welfare is receiving a disbursement from the government.


Part of why time is running out is that it is very difficult to respond to your undifferentiated text replies--let's call them your "reply bombs." Your quotes of mine should look like this:

Code: Select all[quote="blackjack21"]Something utterly brilliant and logical[/quote]
Relampaguito, you have no  heart. [b]This is so terrible![/b]

[quote="blackjack21"]Something cynical, but realistic.[/quote]
See Relampaguito, you believe in classes and races, and terrible things like that.

[quote="blackjack21"]Something flippant and comical[/quote]
Oh relmpaguito... [b](something in Spanish)[/b], when will you get Corazon?


I think you are probably using the quote button and getting all my text in a quote and then responding inline, so that it looks like this:

Code: Select all[quote="blackjack21"]Something utterly brilliant and logical

Relampaguito, you have no  heart. [b]This is so terrible![/b]

Something cynical, but realistic.

See Relampaguito, you believe in classes and races, and terrible things like that.

Something flippant and comical

Oh relmpaguito... [b](something in Spanish)[/b], when will you get Corazon?

While I can type fast, I find it difficult to reply to your posts at times because I have parse out what you wrote from what I wrote. Unfortunately, I'm a bit busy today, so I will again have to dig back in the posts to reply to you when I get some spare cycles.


I know Relampaguito. I had a horrific time trying to differentiate and the little Chromebook I had has issues. It was dropped various times and it is messed up. I am going to get it fixed. I tried to bold and so on and it just disappeared most of my replies. It is awful technical issues. So, you can wait til I fix it. But I am busy. I have work and soon I got to go and buy hammocks and I got to start recording to promote something. I do voiceovers for pay. I have a nice voice BJ. Lol.

I don't expect you to make sense of a damn thing. It frustrated me because I had to reply and lost the replies six times Blackjack.

Do what you can if you want to. I have to take the Chromebook in to get fixed. My son has to use the computer that is decent for his schoolwork. I have a great desktop one but it is in Denver. Stuck there. This closed border shit is awful for me. Family separation and a son that has not seen his Daddy since January.

He is trying to find a way around the damn border problems and so on...it is hard.

My husband is terrified of flying. He won't get on an airplane and even less now with CoVid 19 running around and some 14 day quarantine due to the USA being nation full of positive cases. Even Mexico is doing ok. But they are without ability to help the worst cases for long. So the masks are mandatory everywhere for years now.

There is no welfare state here BJ. People are going hungry and the government now is going to release some gasoline funds in large mass amounts. There is a fight between the narcs and the legal enforcement teams in Mexico City. They are being attacked by a group from Jalisco. The legal enforcement folks there are trying to freeze the drug dealers bank accounts and it is getting ugly as hell.

It is the first time the gov't freezes the drug dealers and the corrupt peoples' bank accounts. They are feeling some consequences and they are not happy. But it is not what most Mexicans want. The Mexican public wants the vast amount of these assholes heads on a platter. The problem? The Wealthy Mexican Right is in bed with the Narcs and hate the Lefties here. That is what it is like in Latin America. Selfish bastard Right wing fucks who sell out their nation for dollars and drugs and to hell with the poor and the desperate.

Each nation has their karma. The USA has racist shit it keeps dragging along into new manifestations.

I got to go and deal with these hammocks. BJ. Adios. My city is super mellow and tranquil. No crime. No big problems. Thank God.
#15106218
Tainari88 wrote:The welfare state exists for a reason BJ. It is there for a reason. What is it? You stated it is to buy votes. Wealthy people form organizations and coalitions to retain power and consolidate it all the time. They also conspire to exclude those from the lower classes and keep they fairly powerless in a very undemocratic process.

Actually, they do it very democratically. They are just very dishonest about their intentions.

Tainari88 wrote:I know you are against democracy BJ.

I'm for a representative republic with some limits on suffrage--e.g., idiots cannot vote.

Tainari88 wrote:You are class conscious and you don't really care about Blacks, Latinos, Asians, etc. You don't care. Period.

These are two different constructs. One is class, the other is race. Are you saying that these groups are a race or a class?

Tainari88 wrote:I think you only care about some nationalistic agenda.

Well, that's a way of reducing me to a two-dimensional character, which I'm not.

Tainari88 wrote:The world is not about the USA only and never will be.

When have I ever suggested that the rest of the world should be about the USA only?

Tainari88 wrote:The less people falling into shitty media stories and manipulations.

Really? So tell me how the Minneapolis Police Department, governed by a Democrat Mayor and a black chief of police sends four officers--two white, one black and one Asian--to address the situation with George Floyd, and the situation still ended up fucked up? When you break down those decision makers, you have three white people--the mayor and two police officers; and three minorities--the black chief of police and one police officer, and an Asian police officer. You've got your "rainbow" representation on that very case, and yet George Floyd still ended up dead with a knee on his neck. Here, the minorities are over-represented on a per capita basis and there is no change in the end result.

My point in the thread about the Seattle black man arrested for running over a few white black lives women is that none of this superficial racial diversity seems to make any material difference whatsoever. A bunch of liberal white women get themselves injured and one of themselves killed campaigning for Black Lives Matter, and a black man still ends up in jail. The media doesn't cover the racial angle of that story, because they do not see the irony of leftist politics. Your point would have been an interesting one 25 years ago, but from the circumstances surrounding George Floyd's death and the BLM and Antifa antics that followed, we have ample evidence to the contrary.

Tainari88 wrote:I will never understand what motivates such love of materialistic gain, greed and also selfish shit. For me that causes the world pain, suffering and untold harm. The naked pursuit of money and power and always at the expense of the weak.

I work in cloud computing. We don't crush poor people to dust in my line of work. That's a 19th and maybe early 20th Century Marxist narrative about industrialism. It doesn't make sense in other contexts. Who have I caused untold pain, suffering and harm?

Tainari88 wrote:The Republicans are repulsive with their class conscious bulllshit, fake Christianity, double standards of everything for the wealthy and nothing for the lower classes, being petty and bloated pieces of greedy trash.

They happen to give more to charity than most people, and are generally happier as well.

Research Finds Conservatives Are More Happy, Generous, And Purposeful Than Liberals

Tainari88 wrote:I hope that party implodes and loses all party for at least half a century.

That already happened to them in the middle of the 20th Century, and mostly because their congressional membership is too worried about appearances and manners and doesn't stand up and fight against the political left.

Tainari88 wrote:Nothing worse than an arrogant dumb person.

Violent anti-social people are worse in my opinion.

Tainari88 wrote:For me they are that and also are causing harm with their warmongering pieces of shit.

The major party candidate with ties to the war mongers in this year's presidential race is Joe Biden. Trump ended up firing his few war mongers and not starting any new wars, which is refreshing.

Tainari88 wrote:The Democrats are not much different but they attempt to be 'inclusive'. Lol. Such idiots.

By having black police chiefs preside over the oppression of black people at the hands of the police?

Tainari88 wrote:Arrogant dummies are the Republicans and super ineffective. You keep shilling for them.

I used to be a Republican. How many times have I said that they are useless as tits on a bull? That's not a compliment or an endorsement by any stretch of the imagination.

Tainari88 wrote:It has a big flat wage stagnation problem

That Donald Trump has begun to address, as it is the result of illegal immigration, excessive legal immigration and free trade policies with countries like China.

Tainari88 wrote:it has an idea of foreign culture is a threat

Well, when the big flat wage stagnation problem you describe is further analyzed, it does boil down to foreigners pretty quickly.

Tainari88 wrote:Very non-artistic, non-creative, non-intellectual, anti-intellectual, very moronic on how it thinks about human culture.

Country, blues, jazz, zydeco, hip hop, rap, big band, etc.--America has a long tradition in musical arts. America also invented the phonograph, movies, and television--spreading its culture all around the world, and bringing much world culture into the United States too.

Tainari88 wrote:It is conformist and lacks strong traditions.

How can you conform if there are no strong traditions?

Tainari88 wrote:It is terribly commercial and ahistorical.

America is very commercial. It's not ahistorical. It's disconnected from the Old World's history. Yes, we do have people trying to pull down statues of historical figures they don't like, but that's a separate matter.

Tainari88 wrote:You are surprisingly ahistorical too BJ. You never study African American history much.

If it interests me, I do. I studied up a bit before going to New Orleans for the first time. Generally, a lot of my cultural studies co-incide with travel.

Tainari88 wrote:You probably never studied Native American history, and many others....only what you identify with?

My father was a patron of Native American art. He frequently wore a turquoise belt and matching necktie made by Native American, Charles Loloma. My uncle, my father's twin brother, still wears it every day.

Tainari88 wrote:You are not a man who likes to stretch at all.

Now you have me laughing out loud. People always ask me how I learned to do what I do. On the bleeding edge of technology, there aren't a lot of predecessors. People have read my manuals and made countless presentations, making themselves look good without crediting me. I work with one guy who even used my work as a foundation for his masters degree thesis, and he used that to write a book. When I started getting bored with working on mass storage, I machine translated an architecture guide from English to German; that's when my bosses found a new role for me in telco-based cloud computing.

Tainari88 wrote:It leads to calcified thoughts without imagination about the future or the present and lack of flexibility.

Uh... I'm working on 5G cloud computing technology. It's pretty much all about the future. In fact, much of the paper I'm currently writing involves disaggregating services in monolithic controller nodes, including addressing some of the problems of hyperconvergence, like the lack of flexibility it creates in the name of cost savings. However, it's all about bits and bites. I guess there's not enough corazon in computers for you.

Tainari88 wrote:I better stop. It is not pleasant for me to think of you being with that mentality.

Indeed. So much of this is a product of your imagination anyway.

Tainari88 wrote:The corporations have been running the state in the USA. The corporations rule the government in the USA. That is not the case in other nations BJ.

Somehow, I don't think Donald Trump was or is their first pick. It's nice to know that corporations aren't ruling Japan, Germany, France, the UK, etc. Imagine how dull it would be if Pemex, Groupo Carso, Bimbo, Femsa and others ruled Mexico. Good to know that's not happening...

Tainari88 wrote:You see it now. The state trying to respond when they had sold out to the corporations a long time ago and find it hard to get the antibiotics, the needed masks, etc. The corporations rule. Period.

I've been railing against them for over a decade.

Tainari88 wrote:I will never buy your theories of it is just the Democrats.

The Democrats are worse than the Republicans--much more corrupt. It's fun to point out all their crap. Black Lives Matter. Please. Who is causing black people so many problems? Who doesn't care when black people are killing and getting killed? Who is ginning up these latest riots where black people are getting killed and their businesses burned? It's Democrats.

Tainari88 wrote:American education SUCKS. They suck at educating people.

Who runs it? Almost exclusively Democrats.

Tainari88 wrote:"At least there is a sellout saying I can get some help paying my light bill and an Obama phone." Score.

Bingo. Vote buying.

Tainari88 wrote:Since you don't give a fuck about popular votes you argue for it is good. It is not good BJ.

For a country this size, it is good. It gives all areas of the country a stake in its governance--incorporated areas, that is, not Puerto Rico.

Tainari88 wrote:How long will it take for the American electorate to gain an economic class consciousness?

Well, it may be awhile since the richest people in America are primarily Democrats--or at least they purport to be.

Tainari88 wrote:Did you ever study Latin Blackjack?

Not much. I like the Carmina Burana, so I picked around with that a bit.

Tainari88 wrote:Small minds. Big egos. Forgotten.

I'm sure Julius Caesar, Augustus Caesar, Cicero, Crassus, Marcus Aurelius, Flavius Josephus, Livy and the lot are just devastated by this news.

Tainari88 wrote:You have a very hard time accepting that the Civil Rights movement were African Americans organizing along with civic minded Americans who believed in social justice getting together, going to jail en masse and fighting for their rights to overturn racism.

The racism of the Jim Crow South (created and controlled by Democrats).

Tainari88 wrote:Republicans are not anti-racists.

They were founded on the abolition of slavery. They passed the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments. They passed the Civil Rights Act of 1866. They sent troops to Little Rock, AR to desegregate the schools under Eisenhower. They wrote the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Tainari88 wrote:Look at what happened to that Johnson man and the pressure he was under in 1962?

He was Vice President in 1962.

Tainari88 wrote:I think anyone backing capitalism like you do and loving class conscious stuff is racist and that includes you.

You gain a lot from capitalism. You wouldn't be conversing with me if it weren't for many devices created by capitalist enterprises.

Tainari88 wrote:You have dropped a lot of lines that only racists say Relampaguito.

As you may have guessed, I'm not interested in the current political vernacular, its goals, nor its taboos. So I have no problem talking about race, racism, etc.

Tainari88 wrote:Being a racist is a badge of honor you wear in your weary fight against other white liberal racists in the Democratic party.

Not really. I just see people having evolved just like other species, and I think it does play a role in human behavior. So I don't think it can be stamped out within humans. It can be policed against in larger social groups, but that's about it. Sure, I've read Jared Diamond, but he finished his most important work before the human genome was fully decoded, before it became clear that certain genes appear to have major influence on anti-social behavior, that Eurasians have a small percentage of Neanderthal DNA, but sub-Saharan Africans do not and so on. You, on the contrary, seem to have a very big problem even talking about it.

Tainari88 wrote:No, you got issues with the Irishman @Special Olympian. He is a white man from your same ethnicity (half of it) and you don't like him at all. Why?

He's not really capable of extended discussions on ideas with people he disagrees with. He likes to name call and to troll people, and when he's trolled in return he flips out and gets @noemon to card people for the types of things he does himself. I don't care about the tattletale antics. As I've said, I think the carding punishments here are kind of comical. I just think if you dish it out, you ought to be able to take it. He can't take it. So he comes across as lame to me.

Tainari88 wrote:The Guamanian rep tells you what the racist language was like for justifying denying the vote:

That's just someone who doesn't understand law reading all sorts of things into it that it doesn't say or mean. In my line of work, we're now having to remove terms like "master" and "slave" to be more "inclusive." We even have people who think that "blacklist" and "whitelist" are racist terms. My boss is Irish and lives in Ireland, as are many of my team mates. They are puzzled by the latter constructs, because "blacklist" was about identifying communists, labor organizers, etc. You don't need a list to identify who is black. It's readily apparent. Well... it's readily apparent to human beings right up until you hit the Millennial generation, when suddenly everyone got incredibly stupid. I want to remove "master", because it has conflicting uses. So in the context of high availability, I think we should use the term "primary". In the context of regulating behavior, I think we should use the term "controller" or "control plane." That anyone starts thinking about a 19th Century cotton planter relying on slave labor and feels uncomfortable working on the system is just patently ridiculous. People with that sort of emotional instability should just find themselves somewhere else. The SJWs are now going after builders to stop calling the homeowner's bedroom the "master" bedroom. I think if they are going to do this, then all colleges and universities should stop offering Masters degrees, because that's racist. I don't sweat this stuff, Tainari88. I roll with the punches. However, people who think this stuff is serious end up on a notional blacklist that identifies them as "idiots" whether they realize this or not.

Tainari88 wrote:Thurmond the asshole racist from the Republican party creating problems(is he a Democrat with his racist old fuck self? No, he is a Republican.

He was one of VERY FEW segregationist Democrats that became a Republican.

Tainari88 wrote:Am I surprised? No.

Are you surprised to learn that he was an old school Democrat, and ran for president against Harry Truman on the Dixiecrat segregationist ticket protesting Truman's reversal of Woodrow Wilson's order segregating the military? Generally, when you find a devout racist like that, you're looking at a Democrat.

Tainari88 wrote:Because only Anglos understand the mysterious inner workings of democracy. A concept rooted in Rome and Greece.

Ok. Let's be clear though. John Oliver himself doesn't know shit about the English common law and what distinguishes it from Roman law that governs much of Europe.

Tainari88 wrote:Are you being a fool and denying the legal codes now of what is written into law to justify the lack of full and legal human being a complete human being equal under the law? No, Blackjack, you keep living in denial where the colorism and crazy ideas about if Africans were considered property or not?

I'm just wondering whether you think the constitution really considered black people to be only 3/5ths of a human being or not. Of course they were considered chattel property. As I added, so were women and children.

Tainari88 wrote:...and until the Black people started a hard pressure campaign after the end of WWII, change was not happening...

Actually, the Republicans had been pushing it for over a century. The driving force wasn't blacks pressuring. It was white elites concerned that the communist party was infiltrating blacks to create a fifth column in the US. That's why they were cool with Martin Luther King, Jr. until he started talking about economics. He didn't get shot in 1963. He got shot in 1968.

Tainari88 wrote:I would never back anyone who would harm you BJ.

By your definition of harm. I'm pretty sure communists would gladly avail themselves of all my property with attendant violent force.

Tainari88 wrote:I have another set of values than yours and will die with those intact.

That could be construed as inflexibility... :lol:

Tainari88 wrote:You kiss his ass. I never will.

I just like that the people in Washington who don't like him have to kiss his ass. That's my revenge. It would be even funnier if Kanye West were president.

Tainari88 wrote:Blackjack21 He is deeply immoral, unethical, slimy and greedy and a pathological liar.

That's most people at that level of power. I don't need to like the people in power. I just need their policies to work for me.

Tainari88 wrote:Be fair to them. They are not as bad as Trump. LOL.

You are dwelling on pointless stuff. What matters, unless you are in direct contact with these people, is policies. Biden may be a lot more folksy than Trump, but he literally wrote the legislation that put millions of people (mostly blacks) in prison. Trump may be crass, crude, irritating, maddening, and worse, but he literally turned that situation around. That's substance over style.

Tainari88 wrote:But somehow you have more right to being an American than a Mexican does? Whatever. I don't believe it.

She immigrated legally. A lot of Mexicans have not. Legal migrants from Mexico have the same right to be in the United States as anyone else does.

Tainari88 wrote:You somehow identify with Trump?

I don't identify with Trump. I understand why he was elected, and why he stands a very good chance of being re-elected.

Tainari88 wrote:You will never be about equality or justice.

I will never be about social justice. Equality before the law isn't equality of result. You are about "From each according to their ability," which ultimately means you think you have the right to take from people the things they create for themselves. "To each according to their needs," throwing them a scrap back of what they produced. In that respect, communism sounds like the ultimate expression of capitalism, where the communists elites end up hoarding over a mass of wealth they seized from their most productive citizens, while leaving people with subsistence. I prefer prosperity, and I will not apologize for that.
#15106264
We are approaching a point where it will be pretty much impossible to give blacks anything they don't already have.

No police? You got it.

Workplace affirmative action and getting paid for other people's work? Probably going to happen.

No drug or sex work regulations? That's on the way too.

What will they even be able to demand after that? And despite it all, "true communism" will still not work. Sooner or later things will have to give and it will be more Russia and China, not whatever my little Pony stuff that American communists hazily imagine.
#15106296
Wulfschilde wrote:We are approaching a point where it will be pretty much impossible to give blacks anything they don't already have.

No police? You got it.

Workplace affirmative action and getting paid for other people's work? Probably going to happen.

No drug or sex work regulations? That's on the way too.

What will they even be able to demand after that? And despite it all, "true communism" will still not work. Sooner or later things will have to give and it will be more Russia and China, not whatever my little Pony stuff that American communists hazily imagine.



The next stage is cash reparations.
But, it does not matter, there will always be grievance because that is how the system is set up: PERENNIAL GRIEVANCE AND VICTIMHOOD. Why victimhood? There is some sort of advantage in embracing the role of the noble victim.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... re/405784/
#15106313
blackjack21 wrote:
I'm for a representative republic with some limits on suffrage--e.g., idiots cannot vote.




Ugly law

Between 1867 and 1974, various cities of the United States had unsightly beggar ordinances, in retrospect also dubbed ugly laws.[1] These laws deemed it illegal for "any person, who is diseased, maimed, mutilated or deformed in any way, so as to be an unsightly or disgusting object, to expose himself or herself to public view."[1] Exceptions to public exposure were acceptable only if the people were subjects of demonstration, to illustrate the separation of disabled from nondisabled and their need for reformation.[2]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugly_law



---


blackjack21 wrote:
These are two different constructs. One is class, the other is race. Are you saying that these groups are a race or a class?



These are two *similar* kinds of *oppression*. Why not be conscious of both?


blackjack21 wrote:
Really? So tell me how the Minneapolis Police Department, governed by a Democrat Mayor and a black chief of police sends four officers--two white, one black and one Asian--to address the situation with George Floyd, and the situation still ended up fucked up? When you break down those decision makers, you have three white people--the mayor and two police officers; and three minorities--the black chief of police and one police officer, and an Asian police officer. You've got your "rainbow" representation on that very case, and yet George Floyd still ended up dead with a knee on his neck. Here, the minorities are over-represented on a per capita basis and there is no change in the end result.



This is why we need to be conscious of *class*, because for this situation that you described, *class oppression* explains it, while *race* doesn't, as you've pointed out.


blackjack21 wrote:
My point in the thread about the Seattle black man arrested for running over a few white black lives women is that none of this superficial racial diversity seems to make any material difference whatsoever. A bunch of liberal white women get themselves injured and one of themselves killed campaigning for Black Lives Matter, and a black man still ends up in jail. The media doesn't cover the racial angle of that story, because they do not see the irony of leftist politics. Your point would have been an interesting one 25 years ago, but from the circumstances surrounding George Floyd's death and the BLM and Antifa antics that followed, we have ample evidence to the contrary.



Tainari used the term 'class conscious'. She's not a liberal leftist, she's a revolutionary.


blackjack21 wrote:
I will never be about social justice. Equality before the law isn't equality of result. You are about "From each according to their ability," which ultimately means you think you have the right to take from people the things they create for themselves. "To each according to their needs," throwing them a scrap back of what they produced. In that respect, communism sounds like the ultimate expression of capitalism, where the communists elites end up hoarding over a mass of wealth they seized from their most productive citizens, while leaving people with subsistence. I prefer prosperity, and I will not apologize for that.



You're conflating *Stalinism* with workers-of-the-world socialism. They're *not* the same thing.

You think that the ownership of capital equates to *productivity*, when in fact it's the *workers* who were the ones doing the boring, repetitive, mundane, hazardous tasks that brought machinery, products, and services into existence, that capitalists *expropriate* for their own profits and benefit, paying out only a wage in return.

Marxism is about *collectivizing* work efforts in common, for 'the commons', for all (no private ownership of the means of mass industrial production).


Political Spectrum, Simplified

Spoiler: show
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And:


[11] Labor & Capital, Wages & Dividends

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